Need info on Tascam 2400 DAW controller...

[abyssinianson]

Fellow musicians,
I have been long thinking about getting a controller for my Nuendo/Cubase editing rig and I am deciding on the Tascam 2400. I was looking at the Yamaha 02R and 01V version but, in the end, I could not jsutify spending that much on something I was just going to use for controlling my software sequencer.

I am basically coming from a comparative perspective of a Digidesign user (Control 24 with an HD 3) and have heard very good things about the friendliness of the 2400. Now, before I actually buy this thing, I would love to hear feedback on it as well as thoughts on other alternatives that may be a good choice. I've looked into the Mackie universal control and there are quite a few glitches in their system as far as fully integrating Cubase and Nuendo with the surface controller.

Hazel, I know you have had a chance to take the 2400 through a full recording session. I would love to hear your view on this particular unit like its strength and weaknesses with Steinberg stuff as a sequencer.

[starfugger]

Hi abyss.  my experience with my US2400 is still limited at the moment as i haven't really explored its other features just yet, nor customized it completely for my DAW. actually, im still not completely familiar with cubase SX itself.  but here's the low down so far.

Tascam did not supply any installation guide as far as Cubase/Nuendo is concerned.  the reason why this thing is getting such bad reviews is because people find it very troublesome to install as the manual is just a couple of pages long.  but once you make it work then it serves its purpose quite well.  note that this works as well in Cubase as it does in Nuendo so i'll simply say Cubase (SX3) for practical purposes as it is my DAW of choice.  If you have a version of cubase that is under 2.2 then this might not work properly (although some have made it work through customized XML files --- quite complicated).

what i can do with the US2400 so far are:
1. arm tracks
2. pan
3. eq
4. mute
5. solo
6. undo
7. transport functions

and a lot more functions by customizing in Device Setup. the joystick? i didnt set it up because i was afraid to accidentally mess up surround panning.  let me just say that the jogwheel is a godsend.

what i would love to be able to do is control my plugins through the 2400.  i know this can be done by setting it up as a MIDI controller or something but i haven't gone there yet.  the only weird thing is that  when i click on a track it automatically gets armed as well so that every time i touch a fader it also gets armed in the process.  i hate that.  im sure there's a way around it but i havent messed with Cubase just yet. other than that, i'm pretty happy to have 25 moving faders at the moment.  plus, it's really cool to look at when the song loads

[abyssinianson]

i am working with Cubase SX 3 and Nuendo 2 so I suppose there shouldn't be much difference as far as integrating the 24oo with them.

How does the 2400 work when you have more than 25 tracks? If this thing works a lot like the 02R, then you should be able to select groups/ batches of tracks by scrolling through them, right?

[starfugger]

abyss, you have to update your nunedo 2 to 2.2 (update downloadable from the net) otherwise you will have 3 duplicates of tracks 1-8, not 24 independent tracks.  i tested this before plunking down $2 grand on nuendo 3 to see if it were really superior to cubase (as far as just audio was concerned).  thankfully, i was able to save big big bucks seeing that cubase is not a crippleware version of nuendo on the audio application side.  so, the difference is this: with nuendo 2.2 touching the faders will not automatically arm the tracks, with cubase sx3 the tracks are automatically armed as soon as you touch the fader (as is the case with nuendo 3 i gather), but this is something that needs to be resolved within the DAW software, not with the US2400.

there are buttons labeled "bank +" and "bank -".  the way these buttons work is kind of weird because pressing them doesn't seem to shift the faders to the next group of tracks.  whatever tracks are missing are simply added so that the last track is in the 24th fader.  i guess a simple work around is to add tracks evenly in multiples of 24, even if you have to leave them empty.  i think some people have resolved this but i have yet to sit down and get familiar with both cubase and the US2400.

the thing with the 2400 is that you have to do a lot of reasearch if you wanna customize it completely.  download all the update files of the 2400, all release notes, all recent manuals etc.  a lot of people complain that tascam cannot help them with their questions.  there's a forum for 2400 users who are familiar with its quirks in different DAW apps, etc.  and they are quite accomodating. i read up on a lot of posts and complaints before purchasing my 2400 to see if i will be able to make it work on my terms.  

http://tascamforums.com/index.php?s=64075a775d836fed988829966a4b9737&showforum=20

to sum up, the pro's are:

1.  it's a cost effective way to have 24 automated faders
2.  it does the job quite simply (rewind forward play record attenuate eq pan undo arm tracks mute solo etc)
3.  the jogwheel is SO useful
4.  it looks cool

cons':
1. i haven't figured out how to control plugins
2. unlike the mackie, the faders are not electronically labeled (which IS a hassle) so you might have to find a way to label it manually (there's  space for that though)
3. not well documented, can be difficult to install
4. i haven't figured out how to make the faders work in the RECORD mixer. it works for playback though.  again, im hoping this is something that can be resolved in cubase or the RME Total Mix at least.

i think that's about it. i hope to find the time to sit down once and for all and try to make it work perfectly in my setup.  maybe next week or so.  till then, good luck on your research.

[BALDO]

ABBYSS
can you tell me if it is worth to upgrade to nuendo 2.0 or later version? what's the difference from the older version which is 1.5 ( the one i still use) cause money is a little tight right now.

[starfugger]

oh by the way, i've resolved the arm track problem by un-checking the small box that says autoselect in Device Setup.  setting up the us2400 requires installing three "usb audio device", and therefore, this box has to be unchecked for all three usb devices. i will be researching on how to control plug in's and faders of recording mixer soon.  

i just spoke to a guy who uses control 24.  it seems to be capable of both labelling and plug-in control, plus it has focusrite mic pre's! wow.  that's amazing ... and that it costs Php800,000k. gulp.

[abyssinianson]

yeah, the control 24 is pretty nice. that, however, stays with the HD3 system because it is for a totally purpose than the media workstation I am considering the 2400 for. I am glad to see that you are resolving a lot of the ?s with the 2400, keep me posted and I will be looking on. many thanks for your help with this stuff:)

Baldo, upgrading to Nuendo is advantageous if you are looking for better integration with VSTs and a much more robust sound engine that works really, really well with video syncing. I know the new Nuendo is out but since I just got Cubase SX 3 and am doing alright with Nuendo 2.2, I see no reason to upgrade just yet. Since Steinberg made Nuendo and Cubase to run as well as your DAW can , you are only really limited by how much of a workload your computer can take. For most purposes, I would say that Nuendo one is still good for most projects. Short of getting a full blown Avid system - which I have thought about - the flexibility of Nuendo to work with audio and video seamlessly is perfect for me.

[BALDO]

abbys
i am not into video but my friend is using Avid.. i might be interested but i still got no decent pro camera  to use.. maybe in the distant future hehehe

[BALDO]

thanks by the way..  version 1.5  is capable of 200 tracks. the most that i have used so far is 50 something.. i still got a lot to learn technically esp hardware and software.. but you know what? i just feel i'm blessed with a nice pair of ears.. i heard you say ( rather say post )  that you still send your work to a mastering place. i think i am good at mastering...  you want to try me? i don't have the best equipment though.. maybe..just maybe in the near future i can call myself a mastering sort of guy hehehe
send your work or someone else's work to me  and let me work on it..deal??? i wont charge a penny.. just an objective criticism will do..

[abyssinianson]

baldo, its all good. i will pass. i've worked on audio long enough to know what gear you can master audio on having worked on some of them myself. whether or not you have a good pair of ears is not the point..but that is great..the focus of mastering is to focus on the spectral portion of music that the ears can't ear. here, the mastering environment as well as the gear is important because they intricately rely on ear other. its not just the ears. since i was trained as an engineer and worked on the biological research end  of electrophysiology, i am quite knowledgeable with what the physiological aspect of human hearing is capable of. i hope you don't take offense to this. i just believe in trusting the places i know are designed to handle and process the work i need done.

some of the places i've had mastering done at are: The Playground (Chicago), Colossal (Chicago), and Classic Sound (New York).

I am curious, what rig do you use to record and master your music?

[BALDO]

its ok abbys if you dont like.. i just want to know if i have improved since i am new to this craft. i use a steinberg audiolink 96 box, nuendo software , soundforge and wavelab running the signals to a behringer eurodesk and finally using event monitors. i listen to the final master to 5-6 speakers.

[abyssinianson]

sounds great. i think the best guage of your skill progress would be to sample your music to other people and have them listen to it over time. moreover, try working on a lot of different genres of music. i've found that the frequencies for different genres are all different and the attack of the music is even more individual.

[BALDO]

yeah.. i started with pop then rock, r n b  ..now i am into jazz

[BALDO]

so what happened to HOUSTON as a controller? I GUESS " HOUSTON" we have a problem hahahaha

[starfugger]

[abyssinianson]

the Houston never took off, i think, because it was a bit ahead of what people were looking to do with their software sequencers. it wasn't its time. this, i think, is even weirder because the digi 002 looks somewhat like the Houston as does the Mackie Universal.