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Author Topic: Accessibility of the art form  (Read 8726 times)

Offline nancy brew

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Accessibility of the art form
« on: August 23, 2007, 02:20:21 PM »
Some say it's high art. I'd agree, yet i'd like to know what do you guys think on jazz being accessible to everyone?

I have met people who think jazz would only be for the few, the elite, and the 'cultured'; which is the reason why it isn't 'that' popular since. After all, they would say, you'll never have access to that type of music if one's  lifestyle and earning margin won't allow one to.

The unspoken thought would then be, if it becomes enjoyable to everyone, it ceases to be jazz. When the average tao listens and begins to appreciate Keith Jarret, then Jarret must have had lowered his sights.

Is it not possible for anybody, regardless of status to just genuinely appreciate the music?

From where i come from (geographically, that is) majority of the 'jazz-folks' think alike- that only they can appreciate it fully because it has to be that way. Which is downright, funny. Or is not funny after all?

My first exposure was 70s radio, where jazz (fusion, bop, standards) used to enjoy exposure, including commercial music beds.  No magazines, no internet.  I didn't even know it was jazz then. I just knew what i loved to listen to.

What do you guys think?







Soli Deo Gloria.

Offline brianb

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2007, 07:08:45 PM »
"I never thought that the music called 'jazz' was ever meant to reach just a small group of people, or become a museum thing locked under glass like all other dead things that were once considered artistic."
 
-- Miles Davis

Offline Jim Ayson

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2007, 07:46:47 PM »
I think it's possible. Back in the 80's, pop-jazz fusion was considered commercial.



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Offline aya_yuson

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2007, 07:53:06 PM »
Perhaps half the problem is the stereotypical jazz musician's stance, which is hipper-than-thou. The typical jazz musician seems to feel something along the lines of, "eh, t_ngina kang d'masang pipol ka, di mo naman maiintindihan 'tong tinutugtog ko, eh; so why should i bother addressing you at all?".

Doon pa lang, mali na.

Music is music. Jazz, pop, hhhrrrhhhaaahhhkkk hhhehhhnnn hhhrrrhhhoolll, tutupank-tutufunk, kahit ano pa 'yan --- music is music.

And music is for all.

The essence of business is making a profit. The essence of music is sharing the bounty.

Music is for all.

Share the gift, share the love.

Whether D'Masang Pipol choose to partake of the gift is really up to them.

Pero ika nga ni Ogie, "andito ako, umiibig sa'yo...".

Share the gift, share the love.
c",)
<3 Love is the absence of fear. Fear none. Love all. <3

Offline marzi

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2007, 08:32:18 PM »

The essence of business is making a profit. The essence of music is sharing the bounty.

Music is for all.


so true.
I turned myself into a monster to fight against the monsters of the world.

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william251082

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2007, 04:48:22 AM »
uulitin ko lng

MUSIC/ART IS FOR ALL

for rich, poor, young, old, black, white,yellow, brown, pink...etc. it unites people from all around the world, this is the language that each and everyone understands.

WORLD PEACE

Offline frogfunk

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2007, 09:21:22 AM »
B Perspective: So why is it that most listeners don't get to absorb and appreciate jazz? Are jazz musicians holding back their music to the public? Are they "unlearned" that's why they cannot appreciate it? Is it similar to children avoiding vegetables? What are the reason/factors preventing them to absorb and appreciate it?
"Competition is for horses, not artists." - Bela Bartok

"I don’t like to look back, because the whole point in jazz is doing it now." - Scott LaFaro

Offline nancy brew

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 11:01:29 AM »
Clearly settled it is then, that it is never meant to be inaccessible.

Kasi, if not brought in light, such thoughts may even indirectly influence some stances, even that of fellow musicians. As Kosang Boga's coined term goes: Hipper-than-thou! (I just love you, man!  :-D)

Here's a story i posted somewhere, sometime.

A bassist friend of mine used to drive a taxi during months off and he had a passenger, a common guy who works in a farm. It was after milling season and it was a long drive, my friend put on Pat Metheny and as they travelled, the passenger commented.

"Pare, ano ba yang pinapatugtog mo?"

"ah, Sir, Pat Metheny po yan, bakit po papalitan ko po ba?"

"Hindi. Wag,  ang ganda nga. Hindi pa ako nakakarinig ng ganyang musika sa buong buhay ko ah! Pwede ba bilhin ko yang tape mo (read: tape :-D) mo? Sige na, kahit magkano benta mo bibilhin ko ngayon"

All that's needed perhaps, is more exposure? Outta sight, outta mind, wika nga.

sa B perspective ni Kosang Boyti (Frogfunk), a strong issue is raised there: When jazz musicians purposely hold back their music to the public, that's when the problem comes in. God forbid it, It's insulting to downsize the audience's ability to listen.

Whether we like it or not, media makes or breaks. 







Soli Deo Gloria.

Offline brianb

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 11:01:57 AM »
What are the reason/factors preventing them to absorb and appreciate it?

Lack of exposure, mostly. People generally like what they are familiar with. Rock and pop gets force-fed to them through the radio, commercials, MTV, etc ever day, so that's all they know.

That doesn't mean most people can't appreciate it when they hear it. My friends (non-musical) drop by, and if I'm playing jazz on the stereo they'll often comment on how they like what they hear. But I doubt any of them have ever bought a jazz CD for themselves.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 11:13:56 AM by brianb »

Offline brianb

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 11:13:09 AM »
Here's a story i posted somewhere, sometime.

A bassist friend of mine used to drive a taxi during months off and he had a passenger, a common guy who works in a farm. It was after milling season and it was a long drive, my friend put on Pat Metheny and as they travelled, the passenger commented.

"Pare, ano ba yang pinapatugtog mo?"

"ah, Sir, Pat Metheny po yan, bakit po papalitan ko po ba?"

"Hindi. Wag,  ang ganda nga. Hindi pa ako nakakarinig ng ganyang musika sa buong buhay ko ah! Pwede ba bilhin ko yang tape mo (read: tape :-D) mo? Sige na, kahit magkano benta mo bibilhin ko ngayon"
Beautiful story.  :-)
Quote
Whether we like it or not, media makes or breaks. 

Now I feel guilty since the company I work for sells ringtones, and we always promote the most popular music for people to put on their phones.  :evil: Most of it is, well, crap. Least common denominator, ika nga. We watch the pop charts and promote the hell out of the properties we're selling.  :roll:

Offline frogfunk

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 11:23:15 AM »
So kasalanan ulit ni media? Kasi we want the music shared but they won't since it's less likely to sell. What kind of people go to jazz bars? I hear a resounding echo: "Moneyed", "Yuppies", "Rich" people. Why? Balik na naman sa tanong na, "Bakit nga ba hindi pinapakinggan ng iba?" Begging the question... Rich - Poor issue na naman yata e. Ano kaya kung i-force feed na rin natin ang blues and jazz?
"Competition is for horses, not artists." - Bela Bartok

"I don’t like to look back, because the whole point in jazz is doing it now." - Scott LaFaro

Offline kedysanchez

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2007, 12:06:18 PM »
Perhaps half the problem is the stereotypical jazz musician's stance, which is hipper-than-thou. The typical jazz musician seems to feel something along the lines of, "eh, t_ngina kang d'masang pipol ka, di mo naman maiintindihan 'tong tinutugtog ko, eh; so why should i bother addressing you at all?".

Doon pa lang, mali na.

Music is music. Jazz, pop, hhhrrrhhhaaahhhkkk hhhehhhnnn hhhrrrhhhoolll, tutupank-tutufunk, kahit ano pa 'yan --- music is music.

And music is for all.

The essence of business is making a profit. The essence of music is sharing the bounty.

Music is for all.

Share the gift, share the love.

Whether D'Masang Pipol choose to partake of the gift is really up to them.

Pero ika nga ni Ogie, "andito ako, umiibig sa'yo...".

Share the gift, share the love.
c",)


Very articulately said. 

william251082

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2007, 02:29:42 PM »
it's up to u people to improve the jazz scene in the philippines! do everything u can to: share the love! share your gifts! EMANCIPATE OUR PEOPLE! everybody has the right to learn and have access to it. cut the crab-mentality crap. be the change u want to see in the world...

Offline nancy brew

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2007, 03:28:38 PM »
Bro BrianB.  Oi, wag kang maguilty, hehehehe kambal ng pop yung marketing, kaya there's nothing wrong with that. :-D

Cguro ganun nga, sana kahit konting risk factor lang sa programming ng media for exposure. If not for the exposure, Flora Purim's ANGELS may not have made it to TVJ's Tough Hits..





Soli Deo Gloria.

Offline frogfunk

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2007, 03:43:41 PM »
Hmmm... Ito ang mga nakikita ko:

1) Jazz and Blues Records - Kaunti lang ang albums pero meron. Kulang ang marketing, kaunti lang din ang record labels na gustong maglabas. Ang dahilan karaniwan na ay mahina ang kita sa pagbenta ng mga gayong uri ng musika.

2) Jazz and Blues Music Venues - Kaunti lang din pero meron. Ang tanong, bakit konti lang din ang naghahanap at nagpupunta?

3) Jazz and Blues Artists - Kaunti lang din pero meron. Ang tanong bakit kaunti lang din ang nakakakilala?
"Competition is for horses, not artists." - Bela Bartok

"I don’t like to look back, because the whole point in jazz is doing it now." - Scott LaFaro

Offline Lahed92801

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2007, 07:29:13 PM »
I remember when we were playing some jazz at a show sa school... People started leaving - THE MOMENT THE WORD "JAZZ" came out of the emcee's mouth. During a break in the set i asked some of my batchmates why they left. "Pang high-end lang yan" (ironic for an Atenean who is richer than me pa to say  :roll:) some said "Pang matanda yan" and others "I won't understand that kind of music" and others "Jazz? Yung pinapakinggan ng parents ko?"
It's all these stereotypes.

Then we played "Blue bossa", people started coming back going "Ang sarap nito sa ears pare!" "what's this! ang lupet!"  :roll:

Offline psychic_sushi

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2007, 01:30:22 AM »
very nice thread  :-)

i recall deacon_blues posing the question to me in the past-

then what happens when jazz becomes pop? ( i'm hinting at willie revillame proportions!)

your labandera does your clothes while humming "bright size life"...

eat bulaga's main theme is converted to swing...

the neighbourhood bums gather on the street corner at night, drunk, with their beat up lumanog acoustic, taking turns playing "countdown", "yardbird suite" and then night in tunisia" over kung fu sioktong 

your neighbors parrot whistles "giant steps" (yari nahhh!!!)


ok, it sounds absurd at first. but when i think about it deeper, in a world where jazz is pop... either human consciousness is raised, or we be cool being outlaws jammin over boom "tarat tarat as a standard  :wink:"

the complexity of the art does entail some ear tweaking. as with food, its hard to turn your neighbour onto fusion cuisine. but as with good food, one bite and your hooked  :wink:

spread the word!
"The world needs more great guitarists, not more lumber critics."

Ron Kirn

Offline nancy brew

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2007, 04:30:08 PM »
yun spread the word nga! Well, we may not win them all, but..yeah we'll have to grab whom we can. hehehehe  :-D


the neighbourhood bums gather on the street corner at night, drunk, with their beat up lumanog acoustic, taking turns playing "countdown", "yardbird suite" and then night in tunisia" over kung fu sioktong 


Don't forget an extra odd meter at the end of the verses (di ba kadalasan me sobra/ kulang na bilang ano?  :-D :-D)

I'd hope it's indeed brought about by raised consciousness.  :-D






Soli Deo Gloria.

Offline aya_yuson

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2007, 04:41:15 PM »
very nice thread  :-)

i recall deacon_blues posing the question to me in the past-

then what happens when jazz becomes pop? ( i'm hinting at willie revillame proportions!)

your labandera does your clothes while humming "bright size life"...

eat bulaga's main theme is converted to swing...

the neighbourhood bums gather on the street corner at night, drunk, with their beat up lumanog acoustic, taking turns playing "countdown", "yardbird suite" and then night in tunisia" over kung fu sioktong 

your neighbors parrot whistles "giant steps" (yari nahhh!!!)


ok, it sounds absurd at first. but when i think about it deeper, in a world where jazz is pop... either human consciousness is raised, or we be cool being outlaws jammin over boom "tarat tarat as a standard  :wink:"

the complexity of the art does entail some ear tweaking. as with food, its hard to turn your neighbour onto fusion cuisine. but as with good food, one bite and your hooked  :wink:

spread the word!


I once penned a short story whose premise was similar to this.

'Twas about a present-day bebop guitarist who got hit on the head and went back in time. He met a pre-teen Chuck Berry, when Chuck was just beginning to play the guitar, and influenced the hell outta Chuck.

Then when the story's protagonist came back to his own era, jazz was the popular music and pop music was the hip, underground thing.

Keith Jarrett was played on Love Radio 24/7 and Justin Timberlake played at Freedom Bar every Monday to an audience of 3 people (2 of whom were fellow stalwart pop devotees).

 :-D :-D :-D
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 11:53:44 AM by aya_yuson »
<3 Love is the absence of fear. Fear none. Love all. <3

Offline aya_yuson

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2007, 04:46:37 PM »
Oh, and...

... if you love the music then come to the gigs.

I speak from 20 years of personal experience when i say that the jazz musician is a dying breed. An endangered species.

Blink and we'll all be gone.

But what the f_ck... we keep on killing the planet, who gives a f_ck about some jazz musicians anyway.

Andito kami,

umiibig sa inyo.

Dinig na bang

nagdurugo ang puso

Kung sakaling

ganahan ka pa

Andito ako.

With apologies to Ogie.
c",)
<3 Love is the absence of fear. Fear none. Love all. <3

Offline CYANIDE BOMB

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2007, 08:35:35 AM »

 Nakakataw sbi ng kaibigan k " kaya d sumisikat jazz dto sa pinas kulang sila s pirated n cd's n kumakalat"

               In my opinion jazz is u the person within, the heart that translates the notes to emotions and thoughts. There was a time that jazz was a big thing but things go around maybe one day those days will return.

          Many ppl are avoiding jazz due to its stigma of technicality and depth that its too much too handle
and analyze. Jazz musicians are a dying breed here due to lack of perserverance to scrutinize its structure the dedication u put to understanding and playing it like the words of my friend " HIRAP TOL AYOKO N MAG ARAL NG JAZZ SOBRA LALIM SK DAMI KAILANGAN INTINDIHIN SK ALA TAB N MABILI" and to all that play's and are student of jazz my hats are off to you, my admiration goes to you for giving us music that we only listen in cd's
 

Offline Bammbamm

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2007, 11:39:05 AM »
"If its an art, its not for everybody" - sino bang lintek ang nag quote netoh?  :lol: :lol:
So Be It.

Offline aya_yuson

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2007, 03:08:25 PM »
Nakakataw sbi ng kaibigan k " kaya d sumisikat jazz dto sa pinas kulang sila s pirated n cd's n kumakalat"

               In my opinion jazz is u the person within, the heart that translates the notes to emotions and thoughts. There was a time that jazz was a big thing but things go around maybe one day those days will return.

          Many ppl are avoiding jazz due to its stigma of technicality and depth that its too much too handle
and analyze. Jazz musicians are a dying breed here due to lack of perserverance to scrutinize its structure the dedication u put to understanding and playing it like the words of my friend " HIRAP TOL AYOKO N MAG ARAL NG JAZZ SOBRA LALIM SK DAMI KAILANGAN INTINDIHIN SK ALA TAB N MABILI" and to all that play's and are student of jazz my hats are off to you, my admiration goes to you for giving us music that we only listen in cd's
 

Mawalang galang na po ngunit maaari po bang iwasan natin ang text spelling?
<3 Love is the absence of fear. Fear none. Love all. <3

Offline CYANIDE BOMB

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2007, 10:15:09 AM »
sorry sir aya pasyensya po

Offline nancy brew

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Re: Accessibility of the art form
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2007, 09:08:06 AM »
Ayun!

Korek , kosang boga. If they love the music, at least support the musicians doing gigs.

At sana, sana...iwasan na rin yung mentalidad na 'first-in-the-bandwagon' (e.g., I was into SRV/Pass/Revillame/Arroyo before you guys)

I know there's something great being identified with the  'subversive', the underground, the raw but these talents have to be heard. Hindi naman maling dumami ang nanonood at tumatangkilik sa mga musiko, di ba?

As long as the cats still s_it, we'll have to hang on to catch their s_it.

But frankly, if Justin would be underground?





I'd say, let him stay there.  :-D



OT: remember his youtube clip with Greg Howe?  :-D
Soli Deo Gloria.