Why is my initial recording not as loud as CD mixes?

[bassman88]

Mabalik nga po pala sa original na tanong.. Why is my initial recording not as loud as CD mixes?

...Mastered na po kasi yung CD...
pero me isa pang magandang rason kung bakit mas mababa dapat ang levels ng raw mix...

Kasi pag nasagad mo na yung dynamic range kahit sa mix stage pa lang ay wala ng "leeway" yung mastering engineer sa kung ano mang mga processes ang gagawin pa niya.

so sir ang ibibigay sa mastering engineer e mixed down stereo track nalang? hindi yung per instrument, per drum part track? Tinry ko po kasi magmaster ng stereo mixdown track, nagdidistort pag nilalakasan ko with my mastering plug-in e

[KitC]

so sir ang ibibigay sa mastering engineer e mixed down stereo track nalang? hindi yung per instrument, per drum part track?

Usually a stereo mixdown is preferred but some mastering engineers now prefer individual "stems" of your mixes to give them additional flexibility during mastering.

Tinry ko po kasi magmaster ng stereo mixdown track, nagdidistort pag nilalakasan ko with my mastering plug-in e

This means your mix is already too loud.

[bassman88]

This means your mix is already too loud.

But why does it's still not as loud as some CD mixes which are just standard and not compressed to death. Ive used limiters already and ive lost a significant amount of dynamics but its still not loud enough. I tried playing both my mastered mix and a cd mix at the same time with the same media player, my mix often gets drowned out.

[titser_marco]

Usually a stereo mixdown is preferred but some mastering engineers now prefer individual "stems" of your mixes to give them additional flexibility during mastering.

I see. What would you recommend as an ideal level when mixing down to a stereo file from an external analogue source? When I mix my multitrack tapes through the stereo line in of my cheap soundcard, I make sure that my peaks reach only up to -12 -10 dB. Is this too quiet to the point that I may be letting more noise in than the actual signal? Or is this good enough to give me leeway for compression, limiting, amplifying, etc?

Thanks!

[skunkyfunk]

Just to disturb the peace a bit, no "mastering plugin" can be as dependable as dedicated OUTBOARD mastering equipment.  My biggest gripe about clients wanting their mixes as loud as the new My Chemical Romance CD is a result of them not knowing that they need a dedicated mastering house with outboard equipment that can squish more signal into the dreaded 0dBFS ceiling.  In a software scenario, your computer can process data only within that range.  In a hardware scenario, you can shoot the raw mixdown a few more dB's higher WITH LESS  DISTORTION before sending the processed signal back to a recorder with good ADCs. Aural Exciters and Sonic Maximizers also give better perceived loudness to mastered mixes. 

AFAIK, mastering engineers abroad use computers mainly for de-noising, editing, and de-amplifying loud transients in the mix ONLY.  The multi-band compression, EQ, reverb, and hard limiting is done outboard before sending them to a recorder (can be your DAW with better converters).

Not all mixes can be mastered very loud, especially if the mix in itself benefits from a compressed sound, quite similar to older analog recordings.  But if the mix is very dynamic in nature, (i.e. loud kick transients, separated instruments, more hi-fi sound) it is easier to louden that mix in the mastering stage.

 

[bloodshedd]

But why does it's still not as loud as some CD mixes which are just standard and not compressed to death. Ive used limiters already and ive lost a significant amount of dynamics but its still not loud enough. I tried playing both my mastered mix and a cd mix at the same time with the same media player, my mix often gets drowned out.

as I said eh wag mong i-max out yung dynamic range during the mixing stage...  Kelangan pa nka-playback yung mix mo eh pumapalo lang ng mga hangang -12 db .......yung -12 to Zero db ay yung leeway na sinasabi ko so that the mastering engineer can do his thing....

[titser_marco]

as I said eh wag mong i-max out yung dynamic range during the mixing stage...  Kelangan pa nka-playback yung mix mo eh pumapalo lang ng mga hangang -12 db .......yung -12 to Zero db ay yung leeway na sinasabi ko so that the mastering engineer can do his thing....

Hmm, so if I get this correctly, my stereo bus shouldn't go beyond -12 dB correct?

[bloodshedd]

I'm sensing something... I think that maybe you should re-trace your steps while you were still tracking... Dun pa lang kasi eh dapat na control mo na yung takbo ng gain...

1. Me "clipped" tracks ba? Adjust preamp gain... Do I fix it or re-track?
2. If after tracking you decided to do something about the levels(on a per element basis)...
     a. Do I compress this thing to oblivion?
     b. Do I compress lightly?
     c. ...or maybe I could just do some volume automation?
     d. or a combination of these..
3. Listen and ask yourself if all the elements are ok on a gain/volume perspective...
4. Then mix it the way you want it. You would also probably make volume automation adjustments here.
5. Listen... and go back to number 4 as necessary.
6. Check if the playback levels of the mix are just hot enough... You could probably save a few variations of your mix just in case you want options later on!

You could probably master your work afterwards or send it to STERLING SOUND for mastering.. (huh? Just kidding!)

[bloodshedd]

Hmm, so if I get this correctly, my stereo bus shouldn't go beyond -12 dB correct?

Elo sir... (That Frank Zappa pic was immortalized in one of my guitars)

Roughly po... it depends sa music and taste... After the mastering naman po eh tataas pa yung levels...

You should go that way if you want really your audio to be dynamic... like jazz in small group settings.

But some genres can get away with just 3db's of variation----mostly electronic music...

[RATBUMAN]

My 2 cents,  - to get my recordings louder I use either the Waves software plug-in  L1 ultramaximizer or the TC electronic Finalizer hardware. Both are suited for the home recording hobbyist.

[chuck sabbath]

except that not many hobbyists will be able to afford them or justify the cost ;(

[RATBUMAN]

I agree.  That is why music is more of a hobby than a profession to me . As a full pledge musician you will not be able to afford these BIG boy's toys. The big difference I guess is I am based in the US and have the access to good used gear. I was able to build a decent home studio for a cheap price. I never bought anything brand new. I always buy second hand gear. In the US, if you search hard enough you can buy good second hand gear at a very cheap price. I search my items thru craigslist.com.  Last week , I bought a pair of AKG C414 XLS for 400 dollars. I bought my TC electronic finalizer for also 300 dollars. Search warezstore.com and you will be surprise how cheap Waves Mercury bundle is at their site.  Just my 2 cents.

[KitC]

Search warezstore.com and you will be surprise how cheap Waves Mercury bundle is at their site.  Just my 2 cents.

Getting 2nd hand gear is one thing but buying warez is another. I know Waves software can be quite high priced, but their quality is unquestionably top notch. Warez/piracy only drives their prices higher. Do the right thing.

[moogerfooger]

have your recording mastered...  dont forget your meters sir

[moogerfooger]

so sir ang ibibigay sa mastering engineer e mixed down stereo track nalang? hindi yung per instrument, per drum part track? Tinry ko po kasi magmaster ng stereo mixdown track, nagdidistort pag nilalakasan ko with my mastering plug-in e

sir ibbigay nyo kay master engineer ay yung elements ng ginawa nyo per track. kung mixdown n ang ibibigay mo,,wla na sya pde pang gwin don.

magsisimula ang mixing nyan sa kick at the same time anjan po ang VU meters natin. from kick..dun na babase lhat ng susunod pang instrumento. malamang wla na headroom yung mixdown mo kya pagdating sa mastering e lalo nya lang ilalakas yung distorted o yung parts na sabog. always use your meters sir...

kung interested ka s VU meters, bigyan kita ser

[titser_marco]

sir ibbigay nyo kay master engineer ay yung elements ng ginawa nyo per track. kung mixdown n ang ibibigay mo,,wla na sya pde pang gwin don.

magsisimula ang mixing nyan sa kick at the same time anjan po ang VU meters natin. from kick..dun na babase lhat ng susunod pang instrumento. malamang wla na headroom yung mixdown mo kya pagdating sa mastering e lalo nya lang ilalakas yung distorted o yung parts na sabog. always use your meters sir...

kung interested ka s VU meters, bigyan kita ser

As in hardware meters? Paturo naman pano gumamit non, chief!

[abyssinianson]

I agree.  That is why music is more of a hobby than a profession to me . As a full pledge musician you will not be able to afford these BIG boy's toys. The big difference I guess is I am based in the US and have the access to good used gear. I was able to build a decent home studio for a cheap price. I never bought anything brand new. I always buy second hand gear. In the US, if you search hard enough you can buy good second hand gear at a very cheap price. I search my items thru craigslist.com.  Last week , I bought a pair of AKG C414 XLS for 400 dollars. I bought my TC electronic finalizer for also 300 dollars. Search warezstore.com and you will be surprise how cheap Waves Mercury bundle is at their site.  Just my 2 cents.

correction: full time musicians can afford the "big boy's" stuff. check out the gear page. a majority of the musicians there are full timers. pirated software? you can buy 414s and a finalizer but you can't "afford" the Waves suite? come on now. i am based in the US as well so I know darn well it is possible to afford Waves if you want to and support the company for their good work.

[moogerfooger]

As in hardware meters? Paturo naman pano gumamit non, chief!

anytime ser..no problem   pm ka lang