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Author Topic: What do you want to learn about recording?  (Read 310884 times)

Offline KitC

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #400 on: June 07, 2010, 06:01:11 PM »
Sir tanong ko lang, hindi ba advisable na gumamit ng iba't-ibang audio interface sa recording? Example: I'm recording using Sonar7. When I record guitar parts, POD xt ang audio interface ko. After recording all the guitar and bass parts, palitan ko naman yung audio interface ko to Samson GTRACK USB condenser mic. Pansin ko parang nagkakaproblema yung Sonar7 eh. :?

Firstly, if you are using asio, Sonar (and most other asio-driven programs) will only recognize one asio driver at a time. This is to ensure stability and low latency operation. Another thing is that buffer settings for one interface may be different with the other, which may be the reason you are having problems with Sonar.

Normally, when switching from one asio driver to another, Sonar will have you restart the program. If you are using WDM so that you can use the 2 interfaces simultaneously, it's entirely possible that the different buffer settings for each device have an effect on overall stability. Plus add to the fact that both of your interfaces use USB, which does not have a tight timing protocol when mixing up different interfaces, and timing is very important when dealing with audio.

So which of the 2 drivers are you using?
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Offline Xelly

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #401 on: June 08, 2010, 11:41:44 AM »
^^^^ WDM ang gamit kong driver sir. Pero hindi ko naman ginagamit ng simultaneous yung dalawang usb interface ko. Nag-uumpisa lang magkaproblema kapag after nagstart na ako gamitin yung other usb audio interface ko(Samson GTRACK) after ko gamitin yung isang usb interface(POD XT) ko.

Offline KitC

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #402 on: June 09, 2010, 01:48:30 PM »
Could be excessive power draw. Do you use a powered usb hub? Insufficient power is sometimes common when connecting directly to the motherboard.
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Offline KitC

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #403 on: June 15, 2010, 01:41:54 PM »
Software piracy is not tolerated in these forums.
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Offline arkeetar

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #404 on: June 15, 2010, 01:45:37 PM »
Software piracy is not tolerated in these forums.

sorry KitC, posts deleted  :oops:


Offline Xelly

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #405 on: June 27, 2010, 10:46:25 PM »
Sir Kit tanong ko lang paano ko papaganahin yung isang phantom powered mic sa isang preamp na walang phantom power capability? Baka sakali lang.

Offline KitC

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #406 on: June 28, 2010, 09:12:32 AM »
Two possible ways:

1. Use a mixer with phantom power and direct outs.

2. You can buy in-line phantom power units such as the Samson S-phantom power supply. I think Audiophile carries these.

If your condenser is an electret, chances are it can be powered by a battery. If not, then the above applies.
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Offline Xelly

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #407 on: June 28, 2010, 09:55:43 AM »
Two possible ways:

1. Use a mixer with phantom power and direct outs.

2. You can buy in-line phantom power units such as the Samson S-phantom power supply. I think Audiophile carries these.

If your condenser is an electret, chances are it can be powered by a battery. If not, then the above applies.
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Offline axebass26

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #408 on: July 27, 2010, 09:43:52 AM »
my band is doing a homebrew record for ourselves before we really go into a studio. i have a couple of questions on mixing and mastering.  when mixing tracks, i have adjusted the levels of each recorded track so that each peak is at 0.0 but the master volume still peaks at +something.  do i need to adjust the master too even if it doesn't clip?
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Offline skin

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #409 on: July 27, 2010, 11:26:35 AM »
my band is doing a homebrew record for ourselves before we really go into a studio. i have a couple of questions on mixing and mastering.  when mixing tracks, i have adjusted the levels of each recorded track so that each peak is at 0.0 but the master volume still peaks at +something.  do i need to adjust the master too even if it doesn't clip?

Usually per track level when recording is between -18 and -12.

Offline axebass26

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #410 on: July 27, 2010, 11:48:57 AM »
Usually per track level when recording is between -18 and -12.

it depends on the input i believe. but yes, usually it does fall between -18 and -12 per track to have its peak at 0.0..

again, i have adjusted the levels of each track to peak at 0.0.  but the master volume (the volume of the mix) peaks at above 0.0.  my question is, do i have to adjust the master so peaks are at 0.0 even if the mix does not clip?
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Offline KitC

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #411 on: July 27, 2010, 04:23:33 PM »
Try to imagine each track as a glass of say... 10 ml in volume. The moment you hit 0dB, that glass becomes 10 ml full. Now imagine that the master fader is also 10 ml in capacity. If you add 10 tracks, all 10 ml full, to the master fader glass, what happens? It overflows, and in the world of mixing, this is heard as distortion.

You may have maxed out the volume on each individual track, but you also have to control how much you send out to the master outputs. This is where each individual track fader comes it. To continue with my fluid analogy above, the track fader controls the flow of volume going to the master fader so that it doesn't 'overflow'.

This is how you should treat mixing. We may say set your track levels to this or that dB or say peak at this max dB per track, but your basis for the mix should always be the master outputs, not each individual track. As I'm fond of saying, "let your ears, and not your eyes,  be your guide whenever you mix."
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Offline axebass26

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #412 on: July 27, 2010, 04:32:44 PM »
Try to imagine each track as a glass of say... 10 ml in volume. The moment you hit 0dB, that glass becomes 10 ml full. Now imagine that the master fader is also 10 ml in capacity. If you add 10 tracks, all 10 ml full, to the master fader glass, what happens? It overflows, and in the world of mixing, this is heard as distortion.

You may have maxed out the volume on each individual track, but you also have to control how much you send out to the master outputs. This is where each individual track fader comes it. To continue with my fluid analogy above, the track fader controls the flow of volume going to the master fader so that it doesn't 'overflow'.

This is how you should treat mixing. We may say set your track levels to this or that dB or say peak at this max dB per track, but your basis for the mix should always be the master outputs, not each individual track. As I'm fond of saying, "let your ears, and not your eyes,  be your guide whenever you mix."

okay.... hmmm... so if the mix does not clip or distort, but the master fader registers the audio to be above 0.0 should i still adjust the master so that it peaks at 0.0? or should i leave the master alone and adjust each individual track so that the master registers the peak at 0.0?  will this affect the playback of the song on other devices? pardon the noob-ness.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2010, 04:39:40 PM by axebass26 »
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Offline KitC

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #413 on: July 28, 2010, 10:44:13 AM »
okay.... hmmm... so if the mix does not clip or distort, but the master fader registers the audio to be above 0.0 should i still adjust the master so that it peaks at 0.0? or should i leave the master alone and adjust each individual track so that the master registers the peak at 0.0?  will this affect the playback of the song on other devices? pardon the noob-ness.

Again, let your ears...

Did you hear any distortion at all? Some analog devices have sufficient headroom at the master output that a peak indication may mean that you are only approaching max output. This is not true, however, for digital devices which have a fixed output of 0 dBFS (FS means full scale).

Any attempt to go above this would only mean nasty sounding digital distortion, which is what you usually want to avoid. There are cases where a DAW's track meters will indicate a peak, depending on how those meters are calibrated (peak or RMS). In most cases, transitory peaks - those lasting about a sample or 2 - are often inaudible, but these affect all meters down the line giving you a peak indication on the master outs. You often want to avoid these peaks since the mastering process will often increase levels possibly making any inaudible peaks noticeable afterwards. This is one reason why mix stems are usually handed over to the mastering engineer at levels not exceeding -6 dB or preferably lower so that they have more headroom to work with.

If you have a peak, will this affect playback? Of course it will, though the rule of thumb is that if you can't hear it, you can probably get away with it.
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Offline axebass26

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #414 on: July 28, 2010, 12:21:10 PM »
Again, let your ears...

Did you hear any distortion at all? Some analog devices have sufficient headroom at the master output that a peak indication may mean that you are only approaching max output. This is not true, however, for digital devices which have a fixed output of 0 dBFS (FS means full scale).

Any attempt to go above this would only mean nasty sounding digital distortion, which is what you usually want to avoid. There are cases where a DAW's track meters will indicate a peak, depending on how those meters are calibrated (peak or RMS). In most cases, transitory peaks - those lasting about a sample or 2 - are often inaudible, but these affect all meters down the line giving you a peak indication on the master outs. You often want to avoid these peaks since the mastering process will often increase levels possibly making any inaudible peaks noticeable afterwards. This is one reason why mix stems are usually handed over to the mastering engineer at levels not exceeding -6 dB or preferably lower so that they have more headroom to work with.

If you have a peak, will this affect playback? Of course it will, though the rule of thumb is that if you can't hear it, you can probably get away with it.

that clears a lot of stuff up... so i need to leave room for mastering... got it... 

do we really need to master songs that are just for demos or for non-commercial/release songs?
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Offline KitC

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #415 on: July 28, 2010, 12:46:03 PM »
do we really need to master songs that are just for demos or for non-commercial/release songs?

No, but it's up to you assuming you want the best quality possible.
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Offline axebass26

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #416 on: July 28, 2010, 12:49:15 PM »
No, but it's up to you assuming you want the best quality possible.

ah.. thank you very much...
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Offline ashendarei

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #417 on: August 04, 2010, 11:01:02 PM »
I have been researching a lot on recording and this thread has also been very useful.

My question is, is there an actual audible difference when recording in 44.1 Khz vs 96Khz?  I can understand that recording in 24 bit is better than 16 bit because it does leave some headroom for plugins and other algorithm computations on the sample which makes for smoother and cleaner output.  However, does the sampling rate between 44.1, 88, and 96 actually produce audible differences that would justify the additional processing power needed and not to mention the additional storage space?  The sources online have been conflicting in their recommendations but what I gathered so far is that the human ear can only distinguish up to 20Khz, which means that a 44.1Khz sample rate should be more than enough.  However, there are some sources that mention that there is some "voodoo" in effect when recording in higher rates because it seems that some human instinct can tell the difference. 

Based on your experiences, is this actually true?  Is recording in higher sample rates (higher than 44) really worth it?

Offline KitC

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #418 on: August 05, 2010, 03:45:13 PM »
My question is, is there an actual audible difference when recording in 44.1 Khz vs 96Khz?

The extra sampling rate is great for, wonder of wonders, hearing silence. Often, classical music benefits from the higher sampling rate since their dynamic range is far greater than what we usually hear in today's pop or rock music, what with the preference for compression in most recordings. The natural decay of a music hall's reverb is captured faithfully at higher sample rates, so say the golden-eared among us, but is this important if that rock or hiphop album one is producing gets routed to an outboard Lexicon reverb? Thing is, your everyday common music lover wouldn't care less if the mp3 he was listening to was recorded at 44.1 or 96 kHz.
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Offline ashendarei

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #419 on: August 05, 2010, 04:24:47 PM »
The extra sampling rate is great for, wonder of wonders, hearing silence. Often, classical music benefits from the higher sampling rate since their dynamic range is far greater than what we usually hear in today's pop or rock music, what with the preference for compression in most recordings. The natural decay of a music hall's reverb is captured faithfully at higher sample rates, so say the golden-eared among us, but is this important if that rock or hiphop album one is producing gets routed to an outboard Lexicon reverb? Thing is, your everyday common music lover wouldn't care less if the mp3 he was listening to was recorded at 44.1 or 96 kHz.

Thanks!!!  I will be recording mostly acoustic guitar (plugged and mic'd then mix them) and vocals so i guess i should concentrate more on good mic placement and adjusting to the acoustic of the room plus good singing techniques on mics.  24bit/44kHz should be good enough for my purposes.

Offline A.B

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #420 on: August 06, 2010, 05:01:19 AM »
ano mas maganda matutunan pang high quality sounds nuendo or ung cakewalk sonar?

newbie lng thanks

Offline skin

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #421 on: August 06, 2010, 09:34:42 AM »
ano mas maganda matutunan pang high quality sounds nuendo or ung cakewalk sonar?

newbie lng thanks

If you're gonna go for pure recording only no midi stuff, go Nuendo.

Offline alvincflorentino

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #422 on: August 06, 2010, 10:20:38 AM »
The extra sampling rate is great for, wonder of wonders, hearing silence. Often, classical music benefits from the higher sampling rate since their dynamic range is far greater than what we usually hear in today's pop or rock music, what with the preference for compression in most recordings. The natural decay of a music hall's reverb is captured faithfully at higher sample rates, so say the golden-eared among us, but is this important if that rock or hiphop album one is producing gets routed to an outboard Lexicon reverb? Thing is, your everyday common music lover wouldn't care less if the mp3 he was listening to was recorded at 44.1 or 96 kHz.

So true. It' almost like it's only the musician/engineer/producer who is satisfying his/her own thirst for purity (read: ego). And I'm not even talking about the audiophile purist here; just the regular guy/gal. If any one of us here were to put out a CD, whether commercial or not--but definitely for commercial purposes--that someone would like to present this recording in the best possible way he can to the extent that he/she will kill to buy top-of-the-line gear or at least record/mix/master in the best location possible. Ok, maybe not actually kill but you know what I mean. Unfortunately, the great majority of listeners will either illegally download or acquire only the mp3 version that will eventually be available--no surprise there. Even if this was not illegally acquired, you still say goodbye to quality and all those marathon recording/mixing sessions. Worse, it will be played in mp3 players of all kinds, and listened to on all shapes and sizes of earbuds/earphones/headphones/headsets, or whatever they're called nowadays. I heard a feature in the news last night that these headphones will generate sales of USD 441 million by year end up from only 414M last year!

Where's the justice there? What are we to do? Should we be satisfied that sales of our products are picking up just because people are downloading them? Should we be happy we put out a product that satisfied our deepest desires then just close our eyes to the reality? Forget about telling the public not to acquire illegal downloads. That's like telling a politician not to use his "wang-wang." (Although I must say, we seem to be getting somewhere with that). But in the end, you'll just shout yourself hoarse, trust me. The fact is, the CD is dying a slow death and mp3 is here to stay. Until, of course, that next compression scheme is invented...
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Offline x_taxi

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #423 on: August 06, 2010, 10:57:58 AM »
indeed, the music industry is evolving...  however in whatever form we enjoy our music, you'll still need good recording/mixing/mastering - more so to create that mp3 that you dislike.
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Offline ashendarei

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Re: What do you want to learn about recording?
« Reply #424 on: August 06, 2010, 03:22:12 PM »
but it think some people do record their music just for the heck of it.  people like me, who are not in any way an expert or a professional in the music industry, who just loves to make music.  i mean when you're able to create that moment, and be able to capture that through your records, it becomes something like an inspiration for you that you keep coming back to when things don't seem to work quite the way you want them to.

i'm not saying that nobody else makes music and records it just for the heck of it. what i am saying is that i think that feeling is in each and everyone of us, which is why we want to be able to capture that moment as close to reality as possible.  hehe not unless you're into music just to get chiqs (well nothing wrong with that).

am i even making any sense LOL.