Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions

[sonicassault]

Yey, thanks man! I'm getting a lesson on how to present ideas..  Lord bless you, bro..

Sorry if my arguments doesn't support the conclusion I jumped to. Anyway, I went on to that from how I took iyung development ng kwento.. Like, a musician got a tat, got some reactions from the church his friend didn't quite approve, counsels came along the line na 'if you like it, go for it kahit ano sabihin ng iba (I'm sorry if this is a bad misquote), then some discussions about law and everything..

So I hinted una na we shouldn't dismiss right away the reactions of the church.. Lalo na if we know some who are more spiritually mature than us.. Ergo, don't go for tats ignoring how church might react.. there might be wisdom in their reaction.. I'm sorry if I discount na meron nga namang unreasonable reactions.. I get this too many a times in the ministry..

Next, iyung issue about the law, and the talk of grace, liberty in Christ, and the like.. For me, amazing grace appreciated comes from a heart, changed by the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit, that have taken to learn about the attributes of God.. And this does takes time.. Para ma-avoid ang pag-abuse ng grace or ng ating liberty..

Last iyung testimony thing.. Yes, I'm aware I did not connect my ideas to this.. Pero I will try..

I am not comfortable, thus I will not suggest the 'go for it if you like it' lalo na iyung 'don't mind what others will say' in the context of the musician in the church, or as a Christian. I know that there are times those suggestions are the right thing, like say, preaching the gospel.. But the act being talked about, is tats.. This wouldn't be a problem if all in that musician's church, or for any other church or pastor or what not, is not wary of tats..

So if I go ahead and have my tats, and cause some old (and young) folks to suddenly question the authenticity of my faith and my testimony, could I really just ignore their query? Can I just go ahead and give them a colossal shrug because it's my thing? If you're involved in anything about ministry, it's most often about others, I believe..

Then on to grace and liberty.. Simply put, when I made the public declaration of my faith in Christ, I had to be careful of the picture I paint of myself.. And more so when they suddenly gave me a microphone and told me what for me during the first time was a weird ministry, 'song leading'.. And oh, there were many things I did that went against such public declaration.. Most of it I wasn't even aware.. My reading of His word, also the church, my parents, fellow ministers, pastors, friends, pointed those out to me..

So, I said that the danger of having a tat is that.. After a joyful declaration of Christ as all in all, inking after is a much less support of said declaration.. And yes, I insinuated that it may even tell otherwise.. To the those who witnessed my declaration, to the church, to my music team, they might indeed question the truthfulness of my testimony..

So how does a tat undermine the truthfulness of my testimony? It might just reveal that in reality, be it of spiritual immaturity or something else, in my heart the one sitting on the throne is me, not Christ (and sabi ko nga, not just tats, but any other acts that would betray).. In what way, like how I might have chosen to ignore it's effect on the church, on the brethren, with my fellow music team because it's my thing; or like how I might have used the idea I'm no longer under the law but under grace to allay any questions or fears lingering in my mind about the action..

If this conclusion is not logically sound, then I'm sorry indeed..

As for the one asking about guitars, if without those maangas pile of wood you feel or think you can no longer be an effective worship leader, or if it gives you a better 'lift' during worship times.. your worship might mean something else other than that of Christ..

I'm not saying your conclusion isn't logical bro, di ko lang sya na-connect agad

I do agree with one of your points, that if people question your actions, there must be something to it. However sometimes we do not know if those questions are borne out of personal belief, or is truly grounded in the teachings of Christ. We must understand that we are all still human too, and we all know too well how tenure or age does not guarantee correct understandings and views.

As in the bible, the leaders of the religion forbade a lot of the acts of Jesus because for hundreds of years they thought right what they thought was right, even if their laws came from God. But it is in this complacency and allegiance to religion that they all forgot that their allegiance is to God, not the rules He set for them. The acts of Jesus were things the elders and leaders reviled most. Taking criminals and outcasts to bear witness to Him. Accepting the very things the leaders questioned and ruled out. But why were these acts of Jesus acts of glory? Because the focus was not in pleasing the leaders or gaining the acceptance of the people, but to give God what is due him.

To me it seems that you may have confused your declaration and image to be so integral to your faith. It is not. You may have confused the judgment of your church with the quality of your faith.

I'm not a bible quote guy, but when I do, this is what I quote the most:

Matthew 6:1
Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

Matthew 6:6
But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Matthew 7:16-20
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.  Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

You and your body are the tree, and what you do is the truth. It's ultimately the fruits of your effort that count, not the effort itself. The tattoo is not the end nor the declaration. If the tattoo, which is merely a wound, would count so much against your faith in Christ, then you have weighed the tattoo so much more than what it is, and spent so much of your worries on it than to focus on Christ himself.

Therefore, it is not the tattoo, or tattooing that undermines your testimony, it is your worry about tattoos.

[El Mariachi]

Ang tanong, may sumikat or naging tanyag na ba na religous/worship leader na tadtad ng tatoo? I mean, religous sya, God-fearing at spirit-filled pero naka tatoo? May naging fruitful na ba na religous organization SA PINAS na headed/founded by a man na "inked", kung meron man, pa share naman ng facts.. Kasi for me, hindi akma ang tatoo sa isang worship leader or any leader sa isang religous sect/organization lalo na sa pinas..It stimulates the mind to judge or condemn the person instantly wherein the one who judge already sinned..

Saka one thing, kung leader ka ng isang religous work/mission/organization, dapat you should be a ROLE MODEL.. Kasi posibleng ma-misinterpret ng next generation na tama lahat ginagawa ng isang taong may tatoo at gayahin pa ito..

Stereotype kasi sa pinas na pag naka tatoo eh, Rebelde sa magulang, adik, lasengo, basagulero, etc.. WHY INVITE THAT MINDSET INSIDE THE CHURCH? Ok sana kung ka churchmate eh, pero kung kasama sa worship team tapos leader pa??? BIG NO.. My honest opinion lang po.. Peace..

Last thing, sa buhay ko.. Wala pa akong na meet na church goer na naka tatoo na sobrang mabebless ka pag kausap mo siya.. Madalas na nakakasalamuha kong taong church na naka tatoo eh bagsak at faithless ang lifestyle.. Now tell me......

[sonicassault]

Ang tanong, may sumikat or naging tanyag na ba na religous/worship leader na tadtad ng tatoo? I mean, religous sya, God-fearing at spirit-filled pero naka tatoo? May naging fruitful na ba na religous organization SA PINAS na headed/founded by a man na "inked", kung meron man, pa share naman ng facts.. Kasi for me, hindi akma ang tatoo sa isang worship leader or any leader sa isang religous sect/organization lalo na sa pinas..It stimulates the mind to judge or condemn the person instantly wherein the one who judge already sinned..

Saka one thing, kung leader ka ng isang religous work/mission/organization, dapat you should be a ROLE MODEL.. Kasi posibleng ma-misinterpret ng next generation na tama lahat ginagawa ng isang taong may tatoo at gayahin pa ito..

Stereotype kasi sa pinas na pag naka tatoo eh, Rebelde sa magulang, adik, lasengo, basagulero, etc.. WHY INVITE THAT MINDSET INSIDE THE CHURCH? Ok sana kung ka churchmate eh, pero kung kasama sa worship team tapos leader pa??? BIG NO.. My honest opinion lang po.. Peace..

Last thing, sa buhay ko.. Wala pa akong na meet na church goer na naka tatoo na sobrang mabebless ka pag kausap mo siya.. Madalas na nakakasalamuha kong taong church na naka tatoo eh bagsak at faithless ang lifestyle.. Now tell me......

Magandang point ito. Pero tulad ng sabi mo sir, stereotype yung pag pintado ang isang tao basagulero, adik, etc.
Oo, mali na i-invite yung mindset ng pagiging adik, basagulero, kriminal, patapon sa church. hindi role model ang mga ganung tao.

But at the same time ang solusyon ba natin dun ay mag-judge ng tao? Oo, it stimulates the mind to judge, pero ang solusyon ba dun ay itago ang mga huhusgahan, o dapat natin ituro sa ating church na huwag manghusga? Diba dapat yung pangalawa? Kasi kung itataboy at ipagbabawal lang natin ang mga pintado sa church para na ring sinabi natin na ok lang maging judgmental kasi wala naman tayong ija-judge.

Si Jesus ba sino ang mga hinikayat niya na sumama sa kanya? Tax collectors (parang mga pulitiko ngayon), kriminal, mga may sakit, manggagantso. Tapos ano ang solusyon natin sa pagiging judgmental - itaboy sila lahat, para hindi tayo matulad sa kanila. Pag magiging lider ka ng church, kahit lahat ng gawin mo higit pa sa mga ginawa ng santo, wag ka lang magkatato. Ganun na ba tayo ngayon?

[iyzburg]

Therefore, it is not the tattoo, or tattooing that undermines your testimony, it is your worry about tattoos.

Yes of course, I worry about that.. But not because I confused my declaration and image with my faith, nor the judgement or rebuke of the church.. What I'm basing that on is that declaration goes with faith, like "keeping watch of life and doctrine (1 Tim 4:6)".. Of course, tats is a little thing on the 'life', as you say it's but a wound.. That's why I think I said, uhh, and other acts that betray the truthfulness of who the lord of my life is..

I know the verses you sited.. Yet they aren't only the ones written.. Also, for the verses you sited, the Lord exposes the reality of the 'declaration' or the acts they make: it's not for the glory of God, as you've said.. It's for themselves.. Their hearts made the seemingly correct act filthy.. That's my point.. I think I cannot say I'm inking for the Glory of my Lord Jesus Christ! And for other 'acts' if I may:

- I'm practicing guitar while I don't even lift a finger to help my wife with the chores, and I say I love the Lord!
- I'm not preparing the songs I will sing in advance and praying about because I'm pretty used at worship leading, and I will say I sing for the glory of the Lord!
- I have a slight headeache, and reason out I'm not feeling okay to excuse myself from worship team practice, and I will say I live to worship you Lord Jesus!

I've said and done those things.. I've listened to some youth pastors lament the hypocrisy in their teams.. Why? Because like me, I've started with no one saying 'take good care of your testimony.' That I'm surrounded by a great cloud of witness, those who hear and see the declarations I make of my faith.. Then what, my actions just showed I didn't know what I was talking about..

Taking from an example right here, ron_rd57 quipped in here before, to say to have tats to win souls is absurd.. Why'd he thought of that, I don't know.. But I can opine that the inked sharer may be saying he/she wants to share the gospel and thus have her/himself inked; to ron, the sharer just wants to appear cool to the audience.. The sharer may innocently or maliciously thinks he/she does it for Christ, but nay, it's not..

And now I'm straying far from tats..  Sorry.. Ayun lang talaga, na mag-ingat sa pag-decide ang isang Christian in having tats (or better to not have it), and so much more with the day to day lives they live.. Like what you said, the fruits of what we do, the one manifesting the contents of inside, is what counts.. If someone who profess his faith think tats will produce no ill fruits or effects, and in no case will display an askew motive of heart or faith, that's their own discernment.. It's a little thing, yes, but our ability to handle little, external things may as well communicate how we will handle greater or more intimate things..

[iyzburg]

Stereotype kasi sa pinas na pag naka tatoo eh, Rebelde sa magulang, adik, lasengo, basagulero, etc.. WHY INVITE THAT MINDSET INSIDE THE CHURCH? Ok sana kung ka churchmate eh, pero kung kasama sa worship team tapos leader pa??? BIG NO.. My honest opinion lang po.. Peace..

Last thing, sa buhay ko.. Wala pa akong na meet na church goer na naka tatoo na sobrang mabebless ka pag kausap mo siya.. Madalas na nakakasalamuha kong taong church na naka tatoo eh bagsak at faithless ang lifestyle.. Now tell me......

I feel you last line.. So may mga nakausap ka nga? Hmm.. I think the discussion is going more on being judgmental.. Kasi nga naman, ganon ata nangyari sa friend ni TS.. Siguro magandang pag-usapan, when is rendering judgement righteous (acceptable kay Lord Jesus Christ), and when is it na it's worth a neck-tied-with-a-rock-and-thrown-to-the-sea?

 

[El Mariachi]

Magandang point ito. Pero tulad ng sabi mo sir, stereotype yung pag pintado ang isang tao basagulero, adik, etc.
Oo, mali na i-invite yung mindset ng pagiging adik, basagulero, kriminal, patapon sa church. hindi role model ang mga ganung tao.

But at the same time ang solusyon ba natin dun ay mag-judge ng tao? Oo, it stimulates the mind to judge, pero ang solusyon ba dun ay itago ang mga huhusgahan, o dapat natin ituro sa ating church na huwag manghusga? Diba dapat yung pangalawa? Kasi kung itataboy at ipagbabawal lang natin ang mga pintado sa church para na ring sinabi natin na ok lang maging judgmental kasi wala naman tayong ija-judge.

Si Jesus ba sino ang mga hinikayat niya na sumama sa kanya? Tax collectors (parang mga pulitiko ngayon), kriminal, mga may sakit, manggagantso. Tapos ano ang solusyon natin sa pagiging judgmental - itaboy sila lahat, para hindi tayo matulad sa kanila. Pag magiging lider ka ng church, kahit lahat ng gawin mo higit pa sa mga ginawa ng santo, wag ka lang magkatato. Ganun na ba tayo ngayon?

Thanks for the insights bro.. Pero sorry to say, BEING PART OF A WORSHIP TEAM for me is a big vocation and commitment for the Lord.. Madalas kasi na naka tatoo sa worship team, "banda dito banda doon" lang motive sa pagtugtog.. May deception na ngyayari most of the time.. Kaya inked men inside the church are OBVIOUS to be JUDGED.. Actually hindi na siya judgement eh, kasi katotohanan na ung pagjudge base on their real attitude OUTSIDE the church..Hahahaha

[El Mariachi]

I feel you last line.. So may mga nakausap ka nga? Hmm.. I think the discussion is going more on being judgmental.. Kasi nga naman, ganon ata nangyari sa friend ni TS.. Siguro magandang pag-usapan, when is rendering judgement righteous (acceptable kay Lord Jesus Christ), and when is it na it's worth a neck-tied-with-a-rock-and-thrown-to-the-sea?

 

Yup sir.. Ang nakakalungkot pa.. Animal lover itong ka churchmate ko at ka worship team dati, Si redhorse at colt45 ang parating ka cell group.. At nakakalungkot pa, "chongki" sign pa selfie sa ig at fb.. Asan yung true heart for worship dun? Eh puro DECEPTION lang mangyayari,, tulad ng deception na ginawa ni lucifer.. Na sabi sa mga kwento eh worship leader din daw sa langit nung anghel pa siya.....

[sonicassault]

Thanks for the insights bro.. Pero sorry to say, BEING PART OF A WORSHIP TEAM for me is a big vocation and commitment for the Lord.. Madalas kasi na naka tatoo sa worship team, "banda dito banda doon" lang motive sa pagtugtog.. May deception na ngyayari most of the time.. Kaya inked men inside the church are OBVIOUS to be JUDGED.. Actually hindi na siya judgement eh, kasi katotohanan na ung pagjudge base on their real attitude OUTSIDE the church..Hahahaha

Oo, totoo, malaking vocation yan, commitment yan, pero isipin natin, ang tatoo ba ang sanhi ng attitude nila sa labas ng church?

Kahit wala silang tattoo, kung ganun na ang motibo nila sa pagpasok sa worship team, ganun na sila. Kung deception ang pag-uusapan, hindi ba mas deceptive pa sila kung wala silang tattoo pero ganun din ang attitude at motibo, "banda rito banda roon" ika mo nga, kasi nakaka-free pass sila sa judgment ninyo kasi nakatuon ang judgment nyo sa mga pintado.

Music ministry ako dati. Umalis ako sa parehong dahilan: sila mga gusto mag-banda, hindi ang Kristo ang unang dahilan nila kaya sila nasa ministry. Ni isa sa kanila walang pintado. Pero ang image nila mga good boys and girls at lahat ng mga elders at leaders namin tuwang tuwa sa kanila. Yan ang totoong deception. Pero may kilala ako dati na kababata ko, pintado sya, "tribal" design ang tattoo nya, yung uso nung 90s. Pero mas malapit pa sya sa diyos kesa sakin. Mga payo nya sakin: wag ka papadala kay ganyan, nagddrugs yan. Ok lang mag party, pero mindful ka sa ginagawa mo, mag-aral ka nang mabuti, pray for strength, pag tumutugtog ka sa music ministry, magpractice ka ng tugtog sa bahay, para pag service na naka-focus ka sa salita na kinakanta mo para maisapuso mo. Pero pintado sya.

I acknowledge naman na iniisip mo rin yung stigma ng tattoos at tattooed people sa church nyo. Pero ganun na lang ba? Status quo, let them be judged, and let us judge. Uy may bago tayong church member, ngayon ko lang sya nakilala, pero pintado, adik siguro yan, ganun na lang ba?

Sakin lang, we are only human, so we can judge, kasi ako rin naman. And thus I can't fault you for judging your current tattooed churchmates, kasi sabi mo nga alam naman niyo nang hindi sila tapat sa vocation nila. Kahit ako mabubuwisit sa kanila. Pero pag may iba tayong nakitang hindi pintado, dapat kilalanin muna natin.

[sonicassault]

I feel you last line.. So may mga nakausap ka nga? Hmm.. I think the discussion is going more on being judgmental.. Kasi nga naman, ganon ata nangyari sa friend ni TS.. Siguro magandang pag-usapan, when is rendering judgement righteous (acceptable kay Lord Jesus Christ), and when is it na it's worth a neck-tied-with-a-rock-and-thrown-to-the-sea?

 

The only acceptable kinds of judgment are the ones by the force of law (of whichever kind), and the judgment of God himself.
The kind of judgment we do which is most prevalent and also unacceptable is called prejudice, where we judge people before we know them, and before a person has been proven to have committed any transgression.
But even if a person has committed any transgression, judgment outside the rule of law on our part is still not permissible, because this distances us from the person, ostracizing him or her, and we ourselves prevent forgiveness to happen, and if forgiveness fails, then he or she may fail to repent for her transgressions and sins as well.
Therefore, and simply, judgment aside from the two kinds previously mentioned are self-righteous, and self-righteousness in itself is something the Lord does not approve.

Interesting how a simple, prevalent, and totally human act of prejudice distances us from Christ?

[El Mariachi]

I guess getting "inked" eh nasa perception lang ng tao kung positive or negative (church person perspective).. pero for me, I adhere to say that getting tattoos while playing in a worship team is big NO...  (i'm being honest, sorry po)

about judgement naman, Good judgement counts, in layman's term: CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM - form of discipleship. A life without discipline will not bear good fruit.. Discipline = Discipleship .   


"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." -John 7:24

As for me, I judge according to 'obvious acts' especially if its wrong.

[mayok]

pwede makisali mga bro tungkol sa pag jujudge. kapag nasa loob kana ng church tayo tayo ang nagjudge ng act ngbawat bahagi ng katawan sabi ni paul.
   1Co 5:12  For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13  But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
       wala tayo karapatan magjudge ng taga labas si God na daw bahala sa kanila.

[El Mariachi]

Back to TS topic... I would suggest,,, study your heart, kung gusto mo talaga pa tattoo... Malay naten, the oldies/elders inside the church will clearly see your intentions and motives in serving the Lord.. Prove them wrong na ang isang kabataan na may tattoo ay hindi "suited for discepleship" and CHURCH GROWTH.. Pero its a hard way brother.. Be ready for criticisms all through out your commitment. Ask yourself, am I an effective worship musician? God will give you signs bro! If its a yes or no... God bless TS! Rok on for Jesus!

Ps. Ganito din sinabi ko sa ka worship team ko na may tats, kaso I fail in enlightening him, balik pa rin sa makamundong buhay ang attitude niya, how sad...

[nicoyow]

Ps. Ganito din sinabi ko sa ka worship team ko na may tats, kaso I fail in enlightening him, balik pa rin sa makamundong buhay ang attitude niya, how sad...

Yow bro. thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

[ron_rd57]

Oo, totoo, malaking vocation yan, commitment yan, pero isipin natin, ang tatoo ba ang sanhi ng attitude nila sa labas ng church?

Kahit wala silang tattoo, kung ganun na ang motibo nila sa pagpasok sa worship team, ganun na sila. Kung deception ang pag-uusapan, hindi ba mas deceptive pa sila kung wala silang tattoo pero ganun din ang attitude at motibo, "banda rito banda roon" ika mo nga, kasi nakaka-free pass sila sa judgment ninyo kasi nakatuon ang judgment nyo sa mga pintado.

Music ministry ako dati. Umalis ako sa parehong dahilan: sila mga gusto mag-banda, hindi ang Kristo ang unang dahilan nila kaya sila nasa ministry. Ni isa sa kanila walang pintado. Pero ang image nila mga good boys and girls at lahat ng mga elders at leaders namin tuwang tuwa sa kanila. Yan ang totoong deception. Pero may kilala ako dati na kababata ko, pintado sya, "tribal" design ang tattoo nya, yung uso nung 90s. Pero mas malapit pa sya sa diyos kesa sakin. Mga payo nya sakin: wag ka papadala kay ganyan, nagddrugs yan. Ok lang mag party, pero mindful ka sa ginagawa mo, mag-aral ka nang mabuti, pray for strength, pag tumutugtog ka sa music ministry, magpractice ka ng tugtog sa bahay, para pag service na naka-focus ka sa salita na kinakanta mo para maisapuso mo. Pero pintado sya.

I acknowledge naman na iniisip mo rin yung stigma ng tattoos at tattooed people sa church nyo. Pero ganun na lang ba? Status quo, let them be judged, and let us judge. Uy may bago tayong church member, ngayon ko lang sya nakilala, pero pintado, adik siguro yan, ganun na lang ba?

Sakin lang, we are only human, so we can judge, kasi ako rin naman. And thus I can't fault you for judging your current tattooed churchmates, kasi sabi mo nga alam naman niyo nang hindi sila tapat sa vocation nila. Kahit ako mabubuwisit sa kanila. Pero pag may iba tayong nakitang hindi pintado, dapat kilalanin muna natin.

this is so true,,,
Christians nowadays, makes judgment based on appearance, (John 7:24)
read the scripture and you will see that the kind of attitude a lot of Christians have
is what the opposite of what Christ had shown in His time on Earth...
Sad to say there are a lot of Christians instead of loving people and representing Christ
they represent the pharisees, they represent their theologies, their religion, their self righteousness, their opinions...
and not the Kingdom of God.. 

[ron_rd57]

Ang tanong, may sumikat or naging tanyag na ba na religous/worship leader na tadtad ng tatoo? I mean, religous sya, God-fearing at spirit-filled pero naka tatoo? May naging fruitful na ba na religous organization SA PINAS na headed/founded by a man na "inked", kung meron man, pa share naman ng facts.. Kasi for me, hindi akma ang tatoo sa isang worship leader or any leader sa isang religous sect/organization lalo na sa pinas..It stimulates the mind to judge or condemn the person instantly wherein the one who judge already sinned..

Saka one thing, kung leader ka ng isang religous work/mission/organization, dapat you should be a ROLE MODEL.. Kasi posibleng ma-misinterpret ng next generation na tama lahat ginagawa ng isang taong may tatoo at gayahin pa ito..

Stereotype kasi sa pinas na pag naka tatoo eh, Rebelde sa magulang, adik, lasengo, basagulero, etc.. WHY INVITE THAT MINDSET INSIDE THE CHURCH? Ok sana kung ka churchmate eh, pero kung kasama sa worship team tapos leader pa??? BIG NO.. My honest opinion lang po.. Peace..

Last thing, sa buhay ko.. Wala pa akong na meet na church goer na naka tatoo na sobrang mabebless ka pag kausap mo siya.. Madalas na nakakasalamuha kong taong church na naka tatoo eh bagsak at faithless ang lifestyle.. Now tell me......

stereotype?
then how bout those religious people or religious leaders na maayos nga ang pananamit but are guilty of raping and molesting a person or even a child, stealing money and allowing corruption in the church?, someone who deceives people telling them they are the "sent one"...That stereo type thing you speak off is rather out of place...

yup there are religious leaders who also have a tattoo, like Mattie Montgomery, Todd Bentley,
at alam ko marami pa, even one of the worship leaders in Hillsong church, named Joel Houston have one in his right arm...
but still God is using them for the advancement of His kingdom
and were not in position to judge them,
yup may mga relihiyoso na naman na gagamit ng 1 corinthians 5...

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

but based on the context kaya sinabi ni Paul un sa book of Corinthians is because of immorality that is happening with their brethren..

kaya isa lang ang pde tanong sa mga nanghuhusga sa mga tattoo especially those who are in the ministry or are Christians..
Is their personal choice of having body art of tattoo abusive and offensive to you?
As long as no one is violated, abuse, or offended, i believe it is not a sin...

[El Mariachi]

stereotype?
then how bout those religious people or religious leaders na maayos nga ang pananamit but are guilty of raping and molesting a person or even a child, stealing money and allowing corruption in the church?, someone who deceives people telling them they are the "sent one"...That stereo type thing you speak off is rather out of place...

yup there are religious leaders who also have a tattoo, like Mattie Montgomery, Todd Bentley,
at alam ko marami pa, even one of the worship leaders in Hillsong church, named Joel Houston have one in his right arm...
but still God is using them for the advancement of His kingdom
and were not in position to judge them,
yup may mga relihiyoso na naman na gagamit ng 1 corinthians 5...

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

but based on the context kaya sinabi ni Paul un sa book of Corinthians is because of immorality that is happening with their brethren..

kaya isa lang ang pde tanong sa mga nanghuhusga sa mga tattoo especially those who are in the ministry or are Christians..
Is their personal choice of having body art of tattoo abusive and offensive to you?
As long as no one is violated, abuse, or offended, i believe it is not a sin...

I emphasized SA PINAS bro! (Look up din pag may time) Lahat ng minention mo eh sa outside ng bansa naten na very liberated towards faith..

I wont argue. I said my part and respected the TS's question. I've debated a lot of person like you na ang hirap paliwanagan. Palibhasa matigas ulo at ayaw pa-disiplina.

This is my last post.

[gandydancer123]

ron_rd57

always nice to read your posts!

[nicoyow]

this is so true,,,
Christians nowadays, makes judgment based on appearance, (John 7:24)
read the scripture and you will see that the kind of attitude a lot of Christians have
is what the opposite of what Christ had shown in His time on Earth...
Sad to say there are a lot of Christians instead of loving people and representing Christ
they represent the pharisees, they represent their theologies, their religion, their self righteousness, their opinions...
and not the Kingdom of God.. 

Yeah i remember when I was a newbie in our music ministry, my first time in front playing guitars.
Some people says, why is my guitar so low that it looks like I'm playing punk music? (hanggang hita)
why is he doing headbang? (not so headbang like gigging outside, just a body reaction on the music i hear and i play during that time)
why my hair is long?
why my guitar looks rugged? ( a relic'd strat that my friend helped me assembling it, coudn't afford to buy my own that time)


hahaha so many comments can't remember the others. 

but still, I'm here, playing and doing what i love.
Bringing a good music to lead the congregation to the presence of the Lord!

[ron_rd57]

I emphasized SA PINAS bro! (Look up din pag may time) Lahat ng minention mo eh sa outside ng bansa naten na very liberated towards faith..

I wont argue. I said my part and respected the TS's question. I've debated a lot of person like you na ang hirap paliwanagan. Palibhasa matigas ulo at ayaw pa-disiplina.

This is my last post.

peace bro.. 
wala naman masama sa sinabi mo at sa sinabi ko...
its ok to share your opinion, ok lang rin makipag debate...
pero to be a dogma is a different thing...
telling me na matigas ang ulo ko at ayaw ko ng disciplina,
is a very judgmental criticism..
just as i said don't judge the person by appearance,
and I also gonna add don't judge a person if you don't know what he/she had been through..

and fyi i don't even have a tattoo, and not planning to have one yet.. i'm not justifying myself...
bka ndi muna not because of religious reasons but because of employment and professionalism
isa ko dun sa mga maayos manamit, the only difference is I don't judge people who dress differently than me... 

[ron_rd57]

ron_rd57

always nice to read your posts!

I used to be a legalistic judgmental religious person,
I also used to hang around with those kinds of people,
Until the day the Lord enlightened me na mali ang ganitong attitude ko at pati na rin sa mga brethren na ksama ko..
One of the best lesson and message I learned in life is that Christ didn't bring a religion but the Kingdom of God..
relationship with God is more important than religious traditions..
and this kinds of minor issues is because of religion..
one of the greatest trauma that happened in the world is caused by religion..
religion cause divisions(denominations), while Christ desires His children to be one (John 17:21)

yup its important to gently extort and rebuke our brethren who fell into sin.
but to criticize and condemn someone in a minor issue is just so wrong,
The greatest commandment that God has given to us is to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind

and to love your neighbor as your self..
judging and condemning someone based on appearance or in minor issues
how in the world could that be love?

Magandang point ito. Pero tulad ng sabi mo sir, stereotype yung pag pintado ang isang tao basagulero, adik, etc.
Oo, mali na i-invite yung mindset ng pagiging adik, basagulero, kriminal, patapon sa church. hindi role model ang mga ganung tao.

But at the same time ang solusyon ba natin dun ay mag-judge ng tao? Oo, it stimulates the mind to judge, pero ang solusyon ba dun ay itago ang mga huhusgahan, o dapat natin ituro sa ating church na huwag manghusga? Diba dapat yung pangalawa? Kasi kung itataboy at ipagbabawal lang natin ang mga pintado sa church para na ring sinabi natin na ok lang maging judgmental kasi wala naman tayong ija-judge.

Si Jesus ba sino ang mga hinikayat niya na sumama sa kanya? Tax collectors (parang mga pulitiko ngayon), kriminal, mga may sakit, manggagantso. Tapos ano ang solusyon natin sa pagiging judgmental - itaboy sila lahat, para hindi tayo matulad sa kanila. Pag magiging lider ka ng church, kahit lahat ng gawin mo higit pa sa mga ginawa ng santo, wag ka lang magkatato. Ganun na ba tayo ngayon?

tama..
sabi nga sa Mark 2:17 Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."
setting up an image of self righteousness will not attract unbelievers to Christ
pero mas madagdagan lang rin ang mga Pharisees sa church..

[sonicassault]

I guess getting "inked" eh nasa perception lang ng tao kung positive or negative (church person perspective).. pero for me, I adhere to say that getting tattoos while playing in a worship team is big NO...  (i'm being honest, sorry po)

about judgement naman, Good judgement counts, in layman's term: CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM - form of discipleship. A life without discipline will not bear good fruit.. Discipline = Discipleship .   


"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." -John 7:24

As for me, I judge according to 'obvious acts' especially if its wrong.

well, of course, youropinion on whether or not worship members should be inked is okay, opinion mo  yan  sa dahilan lang naman tayo nagkakaiba, and it's a good thing naman when we discuss these things.

+1 to constructive criticism. kung pwede lang sana lahat ng judgment natin ganun, but sadly we are only human 

Also, medyo OT, pero I think napaka importante rin na malaman mo kung allergic ka sa ink, or kung may skin issues ka  Ako hindi ako makapagpatattoo dahil may skin allergies ako at prone din sa psoriasis 

[iyzburg]

kaya isa lang ang pde tanong sa mga nanghuhusga sa mga tattoo especially those who are in the ministry or are Christians..
Is their personal choice of having body art of tattoo abusive and offensive to you?
As long as no one is violated, abuse, or offended, i believe it is not a sin...

So the TS was asking what we think of worship members with ink.. If the answer to the your first question is yes (meaning, as what the TS stated na binatikos iyung friend niya), then in your second statement it may be taken then that the inked musician did sin, because he offended someone else in their congregation..

Ahah, and this is a subtopic of "The Music Forums"..

[jemp]

on my opinion no.. IM A WORSHIP LEADE, IM A YOUTH PASTO and IM A SON OF GOD.

it really matters on what is the goal kung bakit ka nag pa tattoo. and kung anu ang nasa tattoo....

tattoo's are images. images is what are you portraying to.

pano tayo makakapag reach out kung ganyan tayo diba.. we should break the boarder but make the line....

[gandydancer123]

thing is every one of us has a different personality..different upbringing..different background..different mindset...if one likes to get a tattoo..marahil for coolness purposes or whatever reason..by all means let him enjoy it...

parang kung lion ka..gusto mo maging vegtarian..so be it! no need t judge or impose Laws or whatever restrictions as long as he doesnt harm any lion..all is good..

[jemp]

totally agree

thing is every one of us has a different personality..different upbringing..different background..different mindset...if one likes to get a tattoo..marahil for coolness purposes or whatever reason..by all means let him enjoy it...

parang kung lion ka..gusto mo maging vegtarian..so be it! no need t judge or impose Laws or whatever restrictions as long as he doesnt harm any lion..all is good..