QUALITY vs COST

[rolexm]

But here lies the problem. Don't compare the Boston OD100 with a Butler BK Tube Driver. They are very different animals and don't even share the same voicing.

Compare it with its peer. The Boston OD100 is a "modified" Boss BD2. Eh sa sound pa lang papaluin kahit ng stock na Boston OD100 ang Boss BD2 because the latter sounds like ipis

A quick check of the effects databases show that the close (very close) clone of the Butler BK Tube driver is the Behringer VT911. They just have one resistor value of difference AFAIK and according to the guy who traced out both circuits. Just change the stock tube to a decent one in the behri  and you're in the ballpark.

Sample : http://www.guitar-pedals-effects.com/ber.mp3

I agree. You can't compare the extremities.

[pitongjerome]

ang sakin diyan eh cost =/ quality because of many factors, one of which is labor.

of course more often, better materials =  better quality nga naman.

pero kasi, ang point ko eh may mga bagay na hindi masyado expensive pero maganda ang quality.

my example is:

guitar/pedal A: cost = 20,000

guitar pedal B: cost = 50,000

oo nga mas maganda sound ni B, pero not that much. parang ang quality nila eh A- compared to B+..

san kapa?? edi sa B+.

kung ang usapan eh 20k vs 50k pero D quality vs A quality, justifiable ung 30k mo diba?

kaya ang kasong COST VS QUALITY eh case to case basis....

[KASALANAN]

It's not in the "Fender"...




























It's in the "Hendrix" 

very true sir

[turiguiliano]

Tried a Baker. Not for me.
Tried an R9. Not for me.
Tried MarkV's Ibanez RG (XXX?) TONE.

Tried a Gustav. Will try it again. 

[firemodel55]

I've read through so many threads that both bash cheap and expensive gear. Everyone has preferences wrt this. However, do we even wonder if the more expensive gear is really of GOOD quality?

IF YOU FIND A REALLY GOOD SOUNDING PIECE OF EXPENSIVE GEAR, IT IS REALLY MORE THAN GOOD BUT MORE OF MAGICAL -- IT REACHES IN TO TOUCH YOUR SOUL.  WOULD I BUY A REALLY GOOD SOUNDING 59 BURST (US$250k).  IF I HAD THE MONEY, THE ANSWER WOULD BE A YES.

How do you know you're only buying something for THE NAME? Is there a really significant difference between quality as cost goes up? For all we know cost can escalade exponentially but quality is growing at almost a flatline.

I REALLY DON'T BUY BECAUSE A NAME IS POPULAR.  MOST OF THE STUFF I BUY TODAY ARE NEVER HEARD OR NOT A POPULAR BRAND.  IF YOU COMPARE A SANTAMESA GUITAR TO A BAKER, THERE IS DEFINITELY A BIG QUALITY DIFFERENCE.  IF YOU COMPARE A BAKER TO GIBSON CUSTOM SHOP, THERE IS A DEFINITE QUALITY ADVANTAGE WITH THE BAKER, IN FACT IT MAKES THE MORE EXPENSIVE GIBSONS LOOK LIKE CHEATS -- GIBSON CUSTOM SHOP (SPECIALLY THE ARTIST MODELS) ARE EXAMPLES OF EXPONENTIAL ESCALATION BUT WITH FLATLINE QUALITY.    I WILL SAY THIS ABOUT CURRENT GENE BAKER B3 GUITARS, THEY ARE HEIRLOOM INSTRUMENTS AND WORKS OF ART THAT YOU CAN PASS ON FROM ONE GENERATION TO ANOTHER. IN MY OPINION YOU CAN NEVER CLAIM AN IBANEZ AS AN HEIRLOOM INSTRUMENT ASSUMING THAT BOTH SOUND GREAT.

For those purists, maybe you should rethink about praising your gear. For those who are anti-purists, maybe you should consider reviewing what you have. That's just a maybe. What do you guys think?

I PRAISE GEAR OR I ACTUALLY PRAISE THE GUYS MAKING THE GOOD SOUNDING GEAR BECAUSE IT CUTS THRU A NUMBER OF MEANINGLESS OPINIONS AND FIRST IMPRESSIONS THAT ARE POSTED ON WEBSITE REVIEWS AND MAGAZINE PUBLICATIONS.  FOR ME, A PIECE OF GUITAR GEAR EITHER SOUNDS GREAT OR IT DOESN'T.

The goal of this thread is to determine when we can say something is practical, meaning the cost and the quality are at par.

PRACTICALITY IS THE LEAST CONCERN OF GOOD SOUNDING GEAR -- AFTER ALL TUBE AMPS ARE NEVER PRACTICAL IN TERMS OF AFFORDABILITY, PORTABILITY, WEIGHT, PRICE AND MAINTENANCE VERSUS SOLID STATE AMPS.  SO I GUESS, YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE IN A MAJORITY OF CASES. 

[bryanarzaga]

the only way a guitar touches your soul is if you know how to really play it, other than that..its just a tool,

[rolexm]

You edited my quote? It's not a questionnaire! What's with the all caps agression? Haha.

1. Magical my foot. We're talking about utility.
2. Name- Doesn't necessary have to be popular. More expensive cars/cameras/guitar/whatnot are not popular because not a lot of people can afford. Name pertaining to two pairs of shoes both made in china and one costing 10x more than the other because of the name.
3. If you praise your gear maybe you should show us how you play it. That would probably end all discussions if you can sound better than all of us. 
4. Oh you'd be surprised that there is always something practical out there.

Tried a Baker. Not for me.
Tried an R9. Not for me.
Tried MarkV's Ibanez RG (XXX?) TONE.

Tried a Gustav. Will try it again. 

+1 to MarkV's guitar.

[rolexm]

the only way a guitar touches your soul is if you know how to really play it, other than that..its just a tool,

We should roadtest with the purists! So that we'll really know the difference. Well, if the purist can't play, oh well. I know a lot of anti-purists who can play really well. Haha.

[rolexm]

Btw, just to share... If you check the Gibson book, their guitars were once made with Philippine Mahogany! Proud to be pinoy! 

[jimy james]

Frank Gambale's Signature Ibby is also made fm. Philippine Mahogany!

[arkeetar]

jimi the biker 

[changedmynametojimi]

does quality usually cost money - usually. does quality ALWAYS have to cost a lot of money? it depends on what your definition of quality is because it is really subjective. what one dude might find as "ok" i might consider pretty darn good. as a result, i explore the entire range of products from cheapos to more expensive stuff to see what it can do for me so i've had experience owning everything from pawnshop gems to high end boutique stuff. now, Suhr's are great and i've tried and played em but i can't justify getting one because i happen to play fine with my regular Strat. again, it all depends what you think the gear can do for you will the quality question become more concrete, otherwise, it is such a grey area that will incite more stupid arguments than constructive dialogue.

can we end this thread with this comment?

i cannot agree more.....different strokes for different folks...

whatever, whichever works best for you guys i guess....

[aHeartThatNeverFade]

in tagalog, kanya-kanyang trip yan...

walang basagan ng trip.hahaha!

[firemodel55]

rolexm,


1. Magical my foot. We're talking about utility -- Some guitars and equipment are more than utility.  I once asked a respected producer to what the secret was with Certain luthiers who can produce magical sounding instruments and his answer was that it was a God given talent.
2. Name- Doesn't necessary have to be popular. More expensive cars/cameras/guitar/whatnot are not popular because not a lot of people can afford. Name pertaining to two pairs of shoes both made in china and one costing 10x more than the other because of the name. -- But guitars and musical instruments are NOT exactly shoes nor are they similar to cars & cameras where technology is more of a factor for performance.  If this were true, then all good sounding vintage gear will be easily replicable even today.
3. If you praise your gear maybe you should show us how you play it. That would probably end all discussions if you can sound better than all of us.  -- playing has nothing to do with the quality vs cost argument.  I can also ask somebody who can play to play on my gear to cream you but thats not the point. 
4. Oh you'd be surprised that there is always something practical out there. -- What is superior sounding and practical musical instrument at the same time?

[jimy james]

  I can also ask somebody who can play to play on my gear to cream you

Dude: What's the point of hiring someone to play on your gear? Can't you play? We all saw your vid...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz7aCE5yfLA

Aren't you even bothered by the comments there?

just... "SHUT UP & PLAY YER GUITAH" - Frank ZAPPA

recommended reading: "The Emperor's New Clothes"

link... http://www.rickwalton.com/folktale/yellow04.htm

[saijo]

HMMM...swirling effect?


bwahhahahahahahahhaha

[wh1t33rick]

 

[boogsy]

guys, dissing playing is no different from dissing gear.

[bryanarzaga]

i thought there was a bond between guitar and guitar player so if someone just plays my guitar for me...whats the point..

i agree with boogsy and abys, its not just a tool, in my statement i forgot to add inspiration, i dont buy gear for the sake of owning, i can get curious and buy something risky to feed my curiosity, if its good i keep it. if its bad it goes to craigslist /let go of it

but main question why cant we just get along? its the same path all these threads take and end up in a void...

[turiguiliano]

Flame shield on.

rolexm,


3. If you praise your gear maybe you should show us how you play it. That would probably end all discussions if you can sound better than all of us.  -- playing has nothing to do with the quality vs cost argument.  I can also ask somebody who can play to play on my gear to cream you but thats not the point.

Rolexm, play daw. Show him wat you've got. Lulz.
firemodel55, you're known to praise your gear a lot. Show us what you got (playing skills).

4. Oh you'd be surprised that there is always something practical out there. -- What is superior sounding and practical musical instrument at the same time?

Heard/Saw:
Joey Puyat's MIJ Squier. It's practical. And it REALLY sounds magical. And this was the first time I saw him play at a fund raising gig at Hobbit House last year.

Tried/Tested/Raped:
-MarkV's Ibanez RG (XXXX?). My kind of guitar too. He mentioned used and brand new prices. Practical. And it REALLY sounds magical.
-My MIJ Standard Strat. Same. It's cheap. Practical and it REALLY sounds magical. And I really waited for this for almost three years until my good friend let it go.

Rolexm, your Ibanez 7 String sucks. Sorry man. Probably needs setup. But you're a good player.


Tone is in teh hair. I'm losing some but there I said it.

[Letour]

rolexm,


3. If you praise your gear maybe you should show us how you play it. That would probably end all discussions if you can sound better than all of us.  -- playing has nothing to do with the quality vs cost argument.  I can also ask somebody who can play to play on my gear to cream you but thats not the point. 

I just love this quote! He contradicts himself in one paragraph. Couldn't have done a better job myself.

It's just worth repeating: If you praise your gear maybe you should show us how you play it. vs.  I can also ask somebody who can play to play on my gear to cream you but thats not the point.

Ok, let me break it down. "Show us how you play it" - this is asking for skill. Not how the gear sounds but how the gear is played.

Broken record: A legendary player that loves mind controlled japanese food played my cheap gear. And it "sounded" magical. I was there. It was at BAMF's place two years ago. Also, it has BAMF's magical and practical "tool" inserted.

The Youtube piece is an absolute gem. And are two videos pala. The Elgee PRS sounded better in my opinion.

[arkeetar]

[turiguiliano]

epic. thread is epic.

in. lulz.

[rolexm]

epic. thread is epic.

in. lulz.

NOMINATE THIS THREAD! Hehe.

rolexm,


1. Magical my foot. We're talking about utility -- Some guitars and equipment are more than utility.  I once asked a respected producer to what the secret was with Certain luthiers who can produce magical sounding instruments and his answer was that it was a God given talent.
2. Name- Doesn't necessary have to be popular. More expensive cars/cameras/guitar/whatnot are not popular because not a lot of people can afford. Name pertaining to two pairs of shoes both made in china and one costing 10x more than the other because of the name. -- But guitars and musical instruments are NOT exactly shoes nor are they similar to cars & cameras where technology is more of a factor for performance.  If this were true, then all good sounding vintage gear will be easily replicable even today.
3. If you praise your gear maybe you should show us how you play it. That would probably end all discussions if you can sound better than all of us.  -- playing has nothing to do with the quality vs cost argument.  I can also ask somebody who can play to play on my gear to cream you but thats not the point. 
4. Oh you'd be surprised that there is always something practical out there. -- What is superior sounding and practical musical instrument at the same time?

Man you have to learn how to quote properly. It's really confusing already.

1. Can we speak in terms of what we actually use the guitar for? We use it to play. That's utility. Now, if playing-well held constant, there should be alternatives out that at a marginal difference in quality/sound but having a very substancial difference in cost.
2. Okay, putting technology aside, can you therefore say that the NEW ways of manufacturing are no comparison to the craftmaship you are talking about? Does it also give those "great manufacturers" that you speak of the right to charge so much? Does it follow that the additional quality justifies the additional cost?
3. Whoa, nice video. So if you can't make your gear look and sound good, why buy something so expensive? What guitar was that? Baker? Does it give any value added to the sound you get when YOU play?
4. There are a lot of examples. Generally spekaing, get a well made body and upgrade the parts that match the guitar very well, and poof: TONE.

[cumbersome]

In my experience, improvement in quality comes in huge gobs in the 10k-70k range; after that, it's really trickles. Nothin' wrong with trickles if you can afford it. The problem only really comes if you seek validation all the time for a 150k guitar you bought that was owned by an entry-level jap copy. Or you want people to say that your MIC Les is as good as a Gibby. If you really know what you want, it shouldn't even matter. There will always be people who would think that your gear sucks, or is not worth it, or whatever, but so long as you think it delivers regardless of price or brand, then there shouldn't be any argument.