Author Topic: Anong bit-depth at sample rate ang tamang pagrecord sa drums? (Read 2766 times)

gammapolaris · « **on:** May 16, 2008, 11:07:05 AM »

sa mga drummers na nagrerecord... ano pong best bit-depth at sample rate ang dapat gamitin sa pagrecord ng drums?

ok na po ba yung 44.1khz? 16 bit or 24 bit?

gusto ko po kasing magawa yung same hifi sound at quality na ginamit sa albums ni norah jones at bob dylan. i want every sound captured but i don't want to overdo it at wala akong idea kung anong tamang approach...

peeves24 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 16, 2008, 11:13:41 AM »

24 bit tapos oversampled to at least 48khz, syempre mas maganda kung higher pero laki na ng kakainin nun sa disk space mo. para maganda pa rin quality kapag nagmixdown ka to regular cd format na 16bit 44.1khz

malamang mahirap pa rin makuha yung quality nung drum sounds nila kasi magaganda yung preamps nila. mas malaki effect nung preamp at A/D converters kesa dun sa sample rate at bit depth e.

gammapolaris · « **Reply #2 on:** May 16, 2008, 11:22:25 AM »

that was quick! thanks!

yeah... everything boils down to the cd format 16bit with the 44.1khz sample rate. so i wonder kung anong benefit ng pagrecord sa 24bit if we will sample it down to 16bit anyway?

yes, yung preamps at A/D converter hardware... anong hardware ang maganda for a non-pro budget? say 1000$. ano kayang best hardware for this project?

Thanks!

peeves24 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 16, 2008, 11:33:10 AM »

wehehehe i dont notice the difference between 24 and 16 too. pangit kasi monitors. pros do swear there is a difference, mas smooth daw yung 24 lalo na sa high frequencies.

im getting either a presonus FP10 or focusrite sapphire pro 10, less 500 dollars each brand new. decent enough for an 8 input interface. kung gusto mo expandable to 24 tracks, get the presonus firestudio or focusrite sapphire 26 then add 1 or 2 behringer ADA8000 preamps para makamura or presonus digimax. meron pa nga usb2 interface, tascam us1614 pero malabo ko piliin yun.

mas mura yung mga m-audio interfaces (delta1010, 1814) pero mapapamahal ka kung wala ka pa mixer with inserts or stand alone preamps

gammapolaris · « **Reply #4 on:** May 16, 2008, 11:37:34 AM »

wala pakong hardware na kahit ano... pc lang at onboard na soundcard. hehehehe.

what is your opinion of the tascam product using usb2.0?

mas malaki naman ang kayang badwidth nun kesa firewire diba?

peeves24 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 16, 2008, 11:51:29 AM »

nasa 270 dollars lang yung tascam us1641, very tempting pero wala pang reviews na matino e. some say kaya nung interface magrecord ng 7 tracks ng sabay sabay pero wala na ko ibang makita na binackupan tong claim. malapit ko na syang masubukan pero malamang para lang masatisfy yung curiousity ko. id still go with firewire.

usb2 bandwidth is only theoretical. may mga benchmarks na ginawa comparing usb2 and firewire at lahat ng results e iniwan ng firewire ang usb2.

randolf_angelo · « **Reply #6 on:** May 16, 2008, 12:56:58 PM »

master pao, what do you think about alesis io/26?
thanks!

gammapolaris · « **Reply #7 on:** May 16, 2008, 04:14:05 PM »

great input with that usb2 VS firewire thing!

Jazz_thunderbird · « **Reply #8 on:** May 16, 2008, 04:44:46 PM »

wala ding drums?:/ eto murang set up ko.

for ur mics: either the Nady, CAD or Digital Reference na 8 piece mic set. that's 3 toms, 2 overheads, 1 snare and 1 kick.about 200$

Then a NAdy Pra8 8 channel pre amp all channels with phantom power - 100$

Delta 1010 LT. 200$

Shure SM 57 (kung trip mo lang okay sa snare 100$)

tapos yung natirang 400$ (10% onti sa tax) pambili mo ng best drum set for the buck. kung may extra more on hardware.

ano sa tingnin niyo?

Jazz_thunderbird · « **Reply #9 on:** May 16, 2008, 04:46:11 PM »

btw, yung delta 1010 LT PCI na un kaya di ka na mamromroblema kung USB or Fire wire:D

gammapolaris · « **Reply #10 on:** May 16, 2008, 04:56:09 PM »

Jazz_thunderbird,

thanks sa tips! i will look into those gadgets!

i have a ludwig and don't plan to replace it anytime soon... I'm a ringo fan kasi e! hehehehehe!

i'm not sure about the cheap drum mics... baka hindi nila makuha yung range of frequencies na gusto ko... or i might be mistaking ~maybe they are good enough?

can you post here link to records na ginawa mo using the equipments above? we just need a reference kung ito na yung kailangan kong equipments. hehehehe!

Jazz_thunderbird · « **Reply #11 on:** May 16, 2008, 05:01:56 PM »

hmmm... replies from musician's friend says they're good enough.. well like what they say, you get what you pay for. so since di ka na bibili ng drumset, eh di pwede rin sa mas okay na mics! i suggest ang ifocus mo yung mga Condenser. kasi pwede ka na di mag tom mics if u have really good ones and u know how to use em.

also, ung kick sana oks din. ewan, preference lang namin. hahaha. chaka heads, baka dapat ayusin din. syempre sa drums mismo mangagaling yung tunog.

rule ko nga sa mic, junk in, junk out. ang gus2 ko kung ano yung pinasok yun ang labas. pero xempre kung mapapaganda nya, eh why not. haha.

check mo sila sa musician's friend. oks naman ang reviews:)

lastly, syempre, yung room din mismo may factor sa recording. pero kung closed mic-ed naman yung buong kit, less problems sa acoustics and soundproofing etc. yung sa condensers nalang tlga.

Jazz_thunderbird · « **Reply #12 on:** May 16, 2008, 05:03:17 PM »

pag uwi ko post ko agad. which is... in monday pa:/ hehe!

gammapolaris · « **Reply #13 on:** May 16, 2008, 05:06:47 PM »

i won't be recording till next month so lookin' forward to those links dude! thanks!

peeves24 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 16, 2008, 05:08:52 PM »

Quote from: Jazz_thunderbird on May 16, 2008, 04:44:46 PM

wala ding drums?:/ eto murang set up ko.

for ur mics: either the Nady, CAD or Digital Reference na 8 piece mic set. that's 3 toms, 2 overheads, 1 snare and 1 kick.about 200$

Then a NAdy Pra8 8 channel pre amp all channels with phantom power - 100$

Delta 1010 LT. 200$

Shure SM 57 (kung trip mo lang okay sa snare 100$)

tapos yung natirang 400$ (10% onti sa tax) pambili mo ng best drum set for the buck. kung may extra more on hardware.

ano sa tingnin niyo?

you can even save more if you use E-MU1212m and a behringer ADA8000. 150 lang yung Emu at below 150 yung ADA8000. Emu has better converters than M-audio so you really will get a better deal

Quote from: Jazz_thunderbird on May 16, 2008, 04:46:11 PM

btw, yung delta 1010 LT PCI na un kaya di ka na mamromroblema kung USB or Fire wire:D

nope, walang issue yun

Quote from: gammapolaris on May 16, 2008, 04:56:09 PM

Jazz_thunderbird,

thanks sa tips! i will look into those gadgets!

i have a ludwig and don't plan to replace it anytime soon... I'm a ringo fan kasi e! hehehehehe!

i'm not sure about the cheap drum mics... baka hindi nila makuha yung range of frequencies na gusto ko... or i might be mistaking ~maybe they are good enough?

can you post here link to records na ginawa mo using the equipments above? we just need a reference kung ito na yung kailangan kong equipments. hehehehe!

yup they are good enough. im using samson dynamics and behringer condensers. sobrang ok na kasi mas dinig yung limitation nung interface ko kesa dun sa mics.

pag nakapag upgrade ako ng interface, pati mics papalitan ko rin kasi this time, maririnig ko na yung limitation ng mic dahil mas maganda na yung interface. haay buhay

may best advice to you is get the best mics you can afford from the start para hindi sayang pera. audix, audio technica or shure sm57 are always safe choices. avoid behringer, samson and nady if you can

gammapolaris · « **Reply #15 on:** May 16, 2008, 05:15:34 PM »

thanks thanks!

what's with the cheap behringers or nadys? talaga bang masama ang nakukuhang sound? limited ang range ba nila?

peeves24 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 16, 2008, 05:26:31 PM »

my behringer c2 vs 2 shure sm81: lamang ang shure sa clarity, mas maganda stereo image at pino yung highs. harsh tuloy sa tenga yung c2. pero kung c2 lang at wala ka ng ibang pang compare ok na ok na sya.

again, this will only be apparent once you get to compare a cheap interface against the higher priced ones.

sa current setup ko ngayon na mics -> behringer ub1204 -> uca202 -> pc e kahit anong mic ikabit ko pangit talaga hahaha

samson qkick ko vs shure beta52 or audix d6: tunog kahon at walang punch ang qkick. di makakacapture ng clicks din. madadaya mo naman sa eq at compression yung recorded sound kaya pede na rin for the 2500 price nya

cheap mics e, you really get what you pay for so i cant really complain

gammapolaris · « **Reply #17 on:** May 16, 2008, 05:29:10 PM »

i read about other recording drummers using a speaker to mic a kick drum para makuha ng tama yung lowends... anyone tried this?

skunkyfunk · « **Reply #18 on:** May 17, 2008, 10:44:28 AM »

Here's the analogy to using 24-bit and 16-bit.

Say you have 2 metersticks, one has accuracy up to a millimeter, and the other has an accuracy to a micrometer.

If you were to use both meter sticks to measure objects to cut, in order to build something, the meterstick with higher accuracy would yield less errors. But then, they both measure 1 meter long (kaya nga meterstick).

Anyway, here's an honest opinion. Wala halos difference ang 16 bit and 24 bit unless you record at very very very low volume, somewhere below -20dBFS which, is not really the case. We record close to 0dBFS (without clipping) to attain higher resolution.

Jazz_thunderbird · « **Reply #19 on:** May 24, 2008, 01:35:51 PM »

ser ito na yung test drive ng drum recording namin. super raw pero medyo okay naman for us.

kumbaga kami na yung nag mix and all, with limited knowledge kaya ganyan lang. haha.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=773590

(not so Drum Test)

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Author Topic: Anong bit-depth at sample rate ang tamang pagrecord sa drums? (Read 2766 times)