hulika

Author Topic: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread  (Read 245611 times)

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #175 on: November 09, 2008, 09:58:01 AM »
google sketchup

yup sliding doors for the tracking and control room. solid core na lang dun sa entrance. yung control room walang parallel surfaces pero yung tracking room meron (to maximize my space). maglalagay na lang ako ng absorbers dun sa corners (orange thingies)

Offline botbenz

  • Regular Member
  • ***
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #176 on: November 09, 2008, 01:57:37 PM »
yeah, sliding doors will make your room appear bigger. but, if i were you, i'd do the following:

  • isolate the wall from the concrete wall, creating a room within a room--which, judging from your sketch, seems to be what you are doing;
  • cover the rear side of your frame with two layers (hardiflex+gypsum or gypsum x2); caulk/seal gaps;
  • fill the space between the studs with rockwool;
  • cover the front with acoustically neutral fabric (i don't know where to get that yet)
  • since one of the sides will be glass, which is very reflective, i would make the other three surfaces absorptive, not just the corners

but then, that's me, an amateur DIYer.

are you thinking of floating your floor? the low frequency thuds are the ones that will be difficult to contain, i would think.

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #177 on: November 10, 2008, 11:27:58 AM »
im making a new slab on the tracking room. i did consider making wooden decks with sand underneath but i think the inner rooms will be too heavy

eto siguro mas malinaw na illustration with measurements, enough to house a 6-piece drum kit.


Offline dabomb

  • Veteran Member
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #178 on: November 11, 2008, 08:37:44 PM »
good day to all... sir mikep meron po ba ibang subtitute sa rockwool? cheaper but effective... tnx po.. :-D
2157 ALABASTRO STREET SAN ANDRES BUKID, MANILA NEAR SLEX

Offline mikep

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #179 on: November 12, 2008, 01:32:46 AM »
Glass Fiber 16 kgm batt.  Nakarolyo 'yun. It's about 1.5 X 15 meters, 2" thick, and costs about 3K.  Air conditioning supply and heat insulation companies would carry it.  Check the Yellow Pages.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc


Offline dabomb

  • Veteran Member
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #180 on: November 12, 2008, 09:28:39 AM »
sir mikep thank you for your help and advice...i have another question  how about cotton batt is it effective as fiberglass batt and rockwool .. :-D
2157 ALABASTRO STREET SAN ANDRES BUKID, MANILA NEAR SLEX

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #181 on: November 12, 2008, 10:06:07 AM »
good day to all... sir mikep meron po ba ibang subtitute sa rockwool? cheaper but effective... tnx po.. :-D

Technically, rockwool and fiberglass are one and the same, the only difference being fiberglass is a trademark of Du Pont.

Re: cotton batt, I don't think it is recommended since it is organic and will decay over time.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline mikep

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #182 on: November 12, 2008, 07:05:55 PM »
Russ Burger, well known international acoustic and studio designer was telling me about cotton batts which he uses as acoustic material in his studio projects.  He had them manufactured in China.  I have not seen it and used it so I am not familiar with it.  I don't know the acoustic characteristics of the material.  But according to him, it is well received because it does not have the "reputation" of being carcinogen.  Is it available locally?  How is the fire rating characteristics?  Is this an acoustic material or it is just "cotton bales or balls?"

Thanks.
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #183 on: November 13, 2008, 01:01:04 PM »
MikeP, this is new to me as well. Apparently, cotton batts are treated with borates to resist fire, molds and vermin: http://www.toolbase.org/Technology-Inventory/walls/non-fiberglass-batts

We learn something new everyday...
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline mikep

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #184 on: November 13, 2008, 03:06:15 PM »
Yep.  A friend is bringing in another type of acoustical material, mainly made from savings of aluminum used in making bearings.  This is a Japanese product and the fantastic thing about it is, it is weather resistant (Metal).  This can be used not only inside buildings but outside as well to absorb sound to "quieten" (if ever there is such a word) the neighborhood.  The only problem is, it is kinda expensive, although some savings can be made from final finishing, i. e., painting, smoothing, etc.  Things are developing and we just have to keep our eyes and ears open to developments.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline botbenz

  • Regular Member
  • ***
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #185 on: November 14, 2008, 03:37:08 PM »
Technically, rockwool and fiberglass are one and the same, the only difference being fiberglass is a trademark of Du Pont.
Is branding the only difference?

My understanding is that they are similar (both are mineral fibers), but not the same (one is made of glass and polymers; the other made of rock/stone). I suppose one can argue that glass is made of silica, which is a form of rock. But are their acoustic properties the same?

Also, if the same mass/densities of rockwool and fiberglass were compared, which is cheaper? There's probably some metric out there for cost per STL decibel too. But come to think of it now, price is linear, but decibel is logarithmic!

The carcinogenicity concern was timely, as I am weeks from investing in mineral fiber for my SOHO/studio. As it turns out, rockwool and fiberglass have recently been found to have low carcinogenicity.

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #186 on: November 14, 2008, 05:36:32 PM »
When I first read about rockwool, it was apparently to circumvent Du Pont's trademark. Later references now indicate that rockwool is indeed made from basalt, and not glass. Then there is slagwool which is made from slag found in blast furnaces. And now aluminum... will wonders never cease?  :-)

Like I said, we learn something new everyday.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline SAITOHAJIME

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #187 on: November 15, 2008, 03:23:08 PM »
saito-san,  :-D

where is your neighbor, underneath, above your room, or in a different house and lot?

also, what is your floor made of, concrete, wood, combination?

how big is your room?


Neighbors are right next door separated only by a firewall which also happens to be one of the walls of the room. Its located upstairs, directly below it is the kitchen. All 4 walls are made of concrete + the floor. Plywood ceilings. Size? never tried to measure it but its around 11' X 7' X 9'.

I am still looking for alternatives for rockwools which is kinda pricey. I came across scrap ceiling boards which i saw in the junk shop. Pwede ba yun?!?!


Offline mikep

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #188 on: November 15, 2008, 04:06:46 PM »
I am still looking for alternatives for rockwools which is kinda pricey. I came across scrap ceiling boards which i saw in the junk shop. Pwede ba yun?!?!

If your purpose is for insulation, ceiling boards or acoustical tiles cannot be used.  You would want a more fuzzy stuff like glass fiber or rockwool.  Glass fiber is cheaper than rock wool.  But if you intend to line your walls (inside) to augment the glass fiber for further isolation, you can use them.  Before you put the final gypsum wall, put the scrap ceiling tiles.  In that way, you also create some sort of a better acoustic impedance.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline SAITOHAJIME

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #189 on: November 16, 2008, 12:53:54 PM »
So hindi pwede as replacement for Rockwools? Anyway, tuloy pa rin ang soundproofing project ko. Nakakita na rin ako ng rockwool supplier sa Calamba area (lapit lang sa amin) ACIPhillipines ang supplier.

BTW, i plan to use wood as a frame for the gypsum boards, magkakaroon po b ng diperensya ito?


Offline mikep

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #190 on: November 16, 2008, 10:51:54 PM »
BTW, i plan to use wood as a frame for the gypsum boards, magkakaroon po b ng diperensya ito?

No, but metal studs would be better in terms of acoustic performance, defense against bukbok, and fire safety.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline botbenz

  • Regular Member
  • ***
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #191 on: November 16, 2008, 11:48:05 PM »
sir mikep: to frame the same room, which is more expensive, wood, or steel (the price of which supposedly increased just before the beijing olympics)? and how much cheaper? say, is steel framing cheaper by 20% in general? thanks.

Offline alien_inside

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #192 on: November 17, 2008, 12:09:33 AM »
IF IN GENERAL, i'm sure STEEL is cheaper...i don't know the ratio...
Opinion ko lang:
about steel framing on the topic, malamang mas mura pa rin, including LABOR ( welders et al )... considering that wood framing for gypsum ( and other layers ), 2 x 4 is needed ( kung talagang susundin nya ang theory )...

ALLEN VC PASCUA, Keyboardist, Arranger, Audio Engineer0947 233 2263 (Int'l Roaming) InterContinental Hotels Group

https://www.facebook.com/allenvcpascua

Offline mikep

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #193 on: November 17, 2008, 12:14:55 AM »
Have not used wood for studding except for some trimmings and acoustic textile holders.  The way I look at it the GI steel studding (metal studs) is cheaper and better to use.  Wala na kasi wood masyado.  The wood studs available are not of good quality.  I suppose no brainer?

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline alien_inside

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #194 on: November 17, 2008, 12:28:02 AM »
I agree with that NO GOOD QUALITY.... he might end up with the tabi-tabingi na frames ( and walls )...
ALLEN VC PASCUA, Keyboardist, Arranger, Audio Engineer0947 233 2263 (Int'l Roaming) InterContinental Hotels Group

https://www.facebook.com/allenvcpascua

LouieAzcona

  • Guest
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #195 on: November 17, 2008, 01:18:45 AM »
ung metal studs po ba, kinakabit sa existing ceiling? o naka-hang?

Offline botbenz

  • Regular Member
  • ***
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #196 on: November 17, 2008, 09:17:22 AM »
thanks, guys. if mikep says no-brainer, i guess it'll be metal for me. ;)

@louieazcona: the metal studs are typically riveted to a base track. go to home depot or wilcon. they usually have sample set-ups of metal framing, including base, studs, joists, furring channels, etc. but if you're asking about metal framing for ceilings, the joist's ends are usually attached to the side wall studs, then supported (so the joists don't sag from the ceiling weight) with steel angles and suspension clips. i learned all these by asking the sales assistants at wilcon, and by looking up the manufacturer's website (http://www.jeasteel.com.ph/). but, of course, i'll have a pro install them. hanggang insulation, electrical, and pintura lang ako.  :roll:

Offline mikep

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #197 on: November 17, 2008, 06:28:24 PM »
ung metal studs po ba, kinakabit sa existing ceiling? o naka-hang?

Depends on your design set up.  If you are building a framing inside a concrete room to hang baffling and acoustic absorbers, the studs are placed directly to the walls and ceiling.  If you are doing it for isolation purposes, they are set about 2" away from the walls, 4" (at least) in the ceiling.  These should be supported by angle bars to stiffen the structure for the additional load like layers of gypsum and cemboard or whatever.  If you are constructing a room within a room, the metal structure should be anchored using acoustic isolators, from the flooring all the way to the ceiling as well as the walls.  The metal structure should not be touching any of the existing structure for maximum isolation.  The internet has some procedures and designs on how to do this stuff.  Go to the webpage of SAE.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline botbenz

  • Regular Member
  • ***
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #198 on: November 17, 2008, 09:37:11 PM »
ah, yes. the SAE website is a treasure trove of information, here: http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/audio/pages/fullindex.htm

sir mikep: i built a "floating floor", a 3" cement slab floor (with deformed bars) atop a 4" sand bed, atop compacted earth. this floor does not touch the concrete walls of my room. since the floor is somewhat isolated (sand being a moderate dampener), do you still recommend that i isolate the base/tracks of the wall frame from this quasi-floating floor? i thought of mass-loaded vinyl sheets or neoprene pads, but questioned their necessity, given that the floor is already somewhat floating. your expert advise would be much appreciated by me, but also by fellow newbies. thanks.

Offline mikep

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread
« Reply #199 on: November 17, 2008, 11:12:26 PM »
A 4" cement slab would have been better.  Also, I have problems with sand as when it settles down, sometimes it does not level properly that your slab flooring can be misaligned.  Also, if the sand is not well dried up, you can have all sorts of "insects" and "maggots" growing in it.  I have a client whose home theater was floated using that technique and "bukbok" thrived in the sand.  They had to renovate the entire home theater, installed new flooring, fixed the walls, etc. but there is a stench smell, that until now, they cannot seem to eradicate.  The better way of floating a floor is to use neoprene pads placed properly, computed in such a way that it would have a real low resonance factor.  There is a formula for that and it is available in any acoustic or noise and vibration book.

Now, would you need the pads to float your flooring using neoprene and all?  If you are able to achieve your desired result, let it be.  You've already spent lots of money.  You just have to watch out on things that might grow underneath your flooring.

FWIW
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc