Why some recording studio engineers are posers

[skunkyfunk]

This thread is moving a lot slower than I was expecting.    

By the way, I am a poser:

[rakrakan]

Wow, ang bilis kumalat ng apoy talaga dito, 1 day lang di pumunta 3 pages na thread na.

Character assassination nga yan kung ganyan. Tapos blind item pa.

Sa studio namin we make it a point not to comment pag medyo ma-intriga ang sinasabi ng ilang clients. Alam kasi namin na maraming factors kung bakit pwedeng hindi maganda ang lumabas na produkto sa isang studio.

Panahon na siguro na magtayo ng samahan ng mga studio at engineers, para at least may cross reference/referrals sa credentials, atsaka formal na sharing ng techniques and knowledge. Kasi, kahit i-share ang knowledge and techniques iba-iba pa rin ang application nyan, depende sa artist, sa kanta, sa sitwasyon. Ang daming variables.

[BAMF]

This thread is moving a lot slower than I was expecting.    

By the way, I am a poser:

Tadat-dat da-dat-dat...dat. tot-tot-tot totot to-tot tot...

Player 2 ka malamang (luigi). naka-green ka e hahaha.

[abyssinianson]

If I am not wrong, the sardine-named band took 3 years to finish 3 songs.   I really hate blind items pero for the benefit of the people here, do you want to know who we're talking about here?  And bakit NAPATAGAL ang recording?  Mahirap talaga ang back-biting sa isang katrabaho kung puwede mo naman sabihin nang harapan kung may problema.  

wows. this got big fast. 3 years to finish 3 songs? AND asked for help to cut down on cost for personal instruments? you got a good heart on you, skunky, because I would've sl@pped the retainers off the kid if they did that to me. studios are businesses, big or small, not a charity for pre-pubescent kids so for them to ask for as much assistance (and give it to them) and patience as they did AND to do this in return is...well...shows the type of folks that they are, really. love poser pic. didn't know luigi favored crease-free Docker slacks.

doing a bit of detective work on the possible folks turned up a good prospect for the identity of the band. wonder what they're trying to accomplish? if they knew any better, they'd be aware that the local touring circuit is a tight knit community. doing this sort of thing and not being responsible for your own concerns in an adult way (they look like kids...and sound like whiney kids) is gonna hit you back later.

@riffwhateveryournameis and said sardine band: play nice, kids, you are around a lot of seasoned veterans that have tons to teach so know your place and give respect where it is due because these folks that work in the industry are the foundation of the scene you are trying to make it in. it doesn't pay to do something, pay for it, get a product in return and harbor ill will then talk behind the person's back because you didn't end up liking what you wanted. speak your mind! folks can't do a better job if you don't ask 'em to do something more to your liking.

pocorn's up...kit et al, i've got the Red Horse brewski *cling* cling*

[alien_inside]

nahilo ako...

[KitC]

pocorn's up...kit et al, i've got the Red Horse brewski *cling* cling*

Great! Hope they're ice cold 'coz my throat's getting dry from the junk food I've been eating while reading this thread. Add to the fact that them jalapeņo chips are positively flaming HOT! (i grew tired of the popcorn) 

A word to the wise though. Crabs are usually known for walking sideways and very rarely up (as in coconut crabs), but they still walk sideways. Let's move away from crab mentality and concentrate on how we can learn and better ourselves in this business. A lot of our contemporaries are considered world class, but if we drag each other downwards, there's no way we can rise above mediocrity.

[abyssinianson]

Great! Hope they're ice cold 'coz my throat's getting dry from the junk food I've been eating while reading this thread. Add to the fact that them jalapeņo chips are positively flaming HOT! (i grew tired of the popcorn) 

A word to the wise though. Crabs are usually known for walking sideways and very rarely up (as in coconut crabs), but they still walk sideways. Let's move away from crab mentality and concentrate on how we can learn and better ourselves in this business. A lot of our contemporaries are considered world class, but if we drag each other downwards, there's no way we can rise above mediocrity.

jalapeno chips eh? very nice.

i agree with working together on improving the local scene. i would also like to add that folks should work with the producer/studio/engineer instead of relying on folks to read their minds. if folks did that more, there wouldn't be cases like this thread. a good lesson in communication and "being on the same page" can be learned here. when recording, make your expectations known and speak your mind. nothing is going to get done if folks don't say what they want and say what they mean.

[chromeknive]

I totally agree with everyone helping each other and treating each other with respect especially in our scene/industry. Ako rin, I learned that here as well as with my friends who are really active in the music scene.

I can understand that sometimes people can be hot-headed and or cocky and or just wanting to vent. Online forums are a prime place because you can remain anonymous. I think we've all been guilty of that at some point or another.

Then again, there's threads like these that are really laced with malice.

---

On the engineering side, as an upstart engineer, it usually takes me a few days to get a mix that can compete with foreign recordings. A week or more for fine tuning pa.

When dealing with home studio limitations and variables like the artist's performance and tone, time is really needed.

And of course, time is money. Money is always an issue in this country.

In some cases, time = money = better mixes/masters. Agree?

[starfugger]

i think what we should all bear in mind, in case unkind thoughts towards other engineers come our way is this: "gagaling din yan."  lahat ng pursigido at masipag mag-aral gumagaling din eventually.  skill will no longer be the issue in time.  only 2 things will stand out by then ---- ATTITUDE and work ethic.  let us make it part of our work ethic not to bad mouth other engineers.  if someone directly asks you for your opinion on some engineer you wouldn't personally recommend, keep your comments professional and open. 

i sincerely hope we all get along as colleagues. 

[skunkyfunk]

I totally agree with everyone helping each other and treating each other with respect especially in our scene/industry. Ako rin, I learned that here as well as with my friends who are really active in the music scene.

I can understand that sometimes people can be hot-headed and or cocky and or just wanting to vent. Online forums are a prime place because you can remain anonymous. I think we've all been guilty of that at some point or another.

Then again, there's threads like these that are really laced with malice.

---

On the engineering side, as an upstart engineer, it usually takes me a few days to get a mix that can compete with foreign recordings. A week or more for fine tuning pa.

When dealing with home studio limitations and variables like the artist's performance and tone, time is really needed.

And of course, time is money. Money is always an issue in this country.

In some cases, time = money = better mixes/masters. Agree?

Actually, I think IN MOST CASES, time = money = better mixes.  Now I believe what the pros in the US say:  Book as much mixing time as tracking.   There are some issues that you cannot address if there is way too little time for mixing.  For some, they mix a song in 2 hours, whereas,  abroad, maybe 2 hours would be wholly dedicated to cleaning up the drums alone.   

We are all facing economic issues in record production, because if not, then why do artists invest on home recording equipment nowadays, thinking they can "save more" doing that than paying a real studio?   

Another thing I wanna point out:  If artists are HAPPY with the recording, don't assume that the engineer is happy with the sound.  Maybe, the engineer is happy for the artist because, he did his job, but not necessarily happy with the tone, the performance, etc.  On the contrary, if the artist is NOT HAPPY with the results, do not assume that the engineer was satisfied/happy with the turnout (for  lack of saying, ok na yan).   There could be many reasons why the mix didn't turn out well.  It could be poor communication, poor choices in tone, and a lot of other things that could have been cured or addressed in the tracking stage.  An engineer would not move forward to the next step if the artist or producer doesn't say so. 

Moreso, if a band is a no-show, or has punctuality issues, and much time is wasted, don't blame the engineer.  To be honest, it is the same sardine band that I had the most issues with in terms of punctuality.  They cannot even get their a$$es in the studio on a regular basis. And to prove my point, they had no drummer for their EP launch and hired somebody on the drums the day before the launch and frankly, it was a subpar performance.  Talk about focus - they cannot even focus on their own relationships in the band.

Anyway, I am more than glad to hear any complaints about my work.  Every engineer should.  Every studio should.  It is not like I am gonna beat you up if you complaint.  In fact, I have a policy that if you are out of time, you have the benefit of tweaking your mix for 15 mins FOR FREE.  Just listen to the final mix over a week or month and scribble down the comments and the time registers.  Beyond 15 mins (hey that's enough for tweaking, thanks to memory recall)  you pay for the time. 

[skyturn]

i didn't read the whole thread and someone probably brought this up already.  Ive read the first and last 3 sections thru.
So here my 2 cents.

it all boils down to "producership", either you get one (something a lot of indie bands hate doing), or you become one which is actually harder that it looks.

to sum it all up, its a communication problem most often than not.  and i've been on both shoes at some point in my life.

artist = creative process
engineer = technical process

both language don't necessarily translate stuff on the same level.

producer = speaks both language
*and if you get one, he has to someone who is in 'tune' with the band, he's practically part of the band that's not playing
**if you're a musician, you have to have an equal amount of ample experience in both areas to fully understand how things work
got to have a loooot of patience... if you can pull those off... you can be an artist/producer

speaking of patience artists are usually too eager to hear and finish their work
engineers prefer taking as much time as needed to do their work

that alone is such a conflict, a conflict that a producer can come to reconcile

just my 2 cents

[superwup]

Wise words Skyturn........................

Yes i'm late this morning, to many customers came back yesterday with to many beer................hehehehehe   

[rakrakan]

it all boils down to "producership", either you get one (something a lot of indie bands hate doing), or you become one which is actually harder that it looks.

to sum it all up, its a communication problem most often than not.  and i've been on both shoes at some point in my life.

artist = creative process
engineer = technical process

excellent points there. Where I disagree is that it all boils down to communication. For me it all boils down to attitude. Professional attitude is (coming on time, coming prepared, being prepared, asking questions, coming up with answers and solutions). Even with subpar talent, professional attitude will yield a good result. Even with subpar equipment and facilities.

One thing you are absolutely correct about is the need for a producer, sadly that's been the most overlooked role in the current state of things.

This thread is turning out to be an introspective on the ins and outs of record production huh? And the wisdom of a lot of folks are also coming through. All good stuff, too. keep em coming.

[skunkyfunk]

excellent points there. Where I disagree is that it all boils down to communication. For me it all boils down to attitude. Professional attitude is (coming on time, coming prepared, being prepared, asking questions, coming up with answers and solutions). Even with subpar talent, professional attitude will yield a good result. Even with subpar equipment and facilities.

One thing you are absolutely correct about is the need for a producer, sadly that's been the most overlooked role in the current state of things.

This thread is turning out to be an introspective on the ins and outs of record production huh? And the wisdom of a lot of folks are also coming through. All good stuff, too. keep em coming.

As Francis Reyes said, "...the problem with some artists is that they think  they are God's gift to music, but in reality they stink.  Sometimes you need a someone <i.e. a producer> to tell they stink because they are used to their own smell...:

[masarapangtaho]

^sir dodj, i smell something fishy..

[KitC]

^sir dodj, i smell something fishy..

I think it's sardines.

[starfugger]

As Francis Reyes said, "...the problem with some artists is that they think  they are God's gift to music, but in reality they stink.  Sometimes you need a someone <i.e. a producer> to tell they stink because they are used to their own smell...:

a good producer will not put it in those exact words however, if he knows the band will be offended.  my experience working with various producers reveals a common denominator:  more often than not, the mindset of a producer is that of a "morale booster".  they employ different styles of encouraging the artist achieve their common goals.  they also have techniques of keeping the creative energy flowing.  the artist has the responsibility of coming to the sessions prepared, meaning all the points discussed and home works given during the pre-prod sessions should, by the time they hit the studio, be covered.  

generally producers i have worked with carry an encouraging and supportive attitude.  

[abyssinianson]

a good producer will not put it in those exact words however, if he knows the band will be offended.  my experience working with various producers reveals a common denominator:  more often than not, the mindset of a producer is that of a "morale booster".  they employ different styles of encouraging the artist achieve their common goals.  they also have techniques of keeping the creative energy flowing.  the artist has the responsibility of coming to the sessions prepared, meaning all the points discussed and home works given during the pre-prod sessions should, by the time they hit the studio, be covered.  

generally producers i have worked with carry an encouraging and supportive attitude.  

very well said. a producer encourages artists to be the best at what they do, even if it means telling them,"okay, you gave me this song but i know you can do a hell of a lot better than this. do another take with this variation and see how you feel with it"

[LouieAzcona]

nice. update lang. patay na po si riffoff. nagpakamatay po siya kagabi.

seryoso na... i really am ashamed to be involved in this. ako ay hamak na 21 year old lamang na gusto magenjoy sa pamamagitan ng Music Technology and Pro Audio. Thanks to the people who preferred peace over popcorns.

[skunkyfunk]

nice. update lang. patay na po si riffoff. nagpakamatay po siya kagabi.

seryoso na... i really am ashamed to be involved in this. ako ay hamak na 21 year old lamang na gusto magenjoy sa pamamagitan ng Music Technology and Pro Audio. Thanks to the people who preferred peace over popcorns.

Akala ko ba clone siya?  I mean, ano tunay na handle niya dito?  (Tama ba definition ko ng 'clone'?)

Louie, I asked you who he is pero you maintained his anonymity in this thread.  Dahil kung ako ang involved, willing ako makipag-usap ng diretsahan na walang kaplastikan.

[LouieAzcona]

clone siya. isang tao na may dalawang philmu account. ok ipi-pm kita. yung term na "kaplastikan" sobrang unnecessary. just so you know.

[LouieAzcona]

Akala ko ba clone siya?  I mean, ano tunay na handle niya dito?  (Tama ba definition ko ng 'clone'?)

Louie, I asked you who he is pero you maintained his anonymity in this thread.  Dahil kung ako ang involved, willing ako makipag-usap ng diretsahan na walang kaplastikan.

boss, di kita pinaplastic. ayaw ko lang madamay yung mga nanahimik. ni, hindi nga nila alam na may ganitong thread eh. pero wag ka magalala... iniisip ko parin kung sasabihin ko ba sayo kung sino. nag-iingat lang ako. si riffoff kaya ko sabihin sayo kung sino. pero yung source ng mga pinagsasasabi niya... mahirap.

[LouieAzcona]

got it

thanks. si riffoff kasi, his band used to rehearse at btmbt. yun lang ang kinalaman ni riffoff sa studio na yun. thanks sa pagbura.

[KitC]

If riffoff is a clone, I am mandated by our regulations to ban his account. Using a clone account to attack another forumer is an act of cowardice, something that I do not tolerate.

I wish some people would be man enough to confront persons they have a beef with, instead of hiding behind a veil of anonimity. A lot of this would have been avoided if proper communication and understanding would have been instigated among the parties concerned.

As of this post, riffoff is now history.

[LouieAzcona]

If riffoff is a clone, I am mandated by our regulations to ban his account. Using a clone account to attack another forumer is an act of cowardice, something that I do not tolerate.

I wish some people would be man enough to confront persons they have a beef with, instead of hiding behind a veil of anonimity. A lot of this would have been avoided if proper communication and understanding would have been instigated among the parties concerned.

As of this post, riffoff is now history.

thanks sir Kit. I actually asked him to delete his clone. ewan ko kung nagawa na. sorry. sana hindi na ako magsorry ulit.