What are your frustrations regarding music stores in the Philippines?

[smartassplayingdumb]

Do you guys really want these music stores to change in the Philippines?  Mag budget kayo lahat ng P100,000 and above for an electric guitar.  

I just want to correct the expectation that Guitar Stores should be like the Garden of Eden.  They ain't and are probably the worst place to buy good sounding guitars from.  Most of the good sounding stuff don't end up in these guitar stores.  Sure there is the one in 100 lucky pick but really the state of the retail industry is a reflection of the state of our standards and our budget.  Why do I say that?  Ask them if they have the right to send back inventory that does not sound good.  Given the cost of freight pabalik, hindi na rin gagawin ng JB, Yamaha, at Audiophile iyan.  Some USA dealers have this privilege because they control a huge amount of sales.  To be a Gibson dealer, at least US$100,000 a year dapat ang order mo.  So parang dapat may fifty (50) Pinoy customers ang bumili every year ng isang Historic for the same base of customers.  Remember, expectation ng Gibson ay palaki ang negosyo mo.  Ilan ba dito sa forum na ito ang may historic or VOS?

Right now, I am not anymore impressed with the stores here (NO EXCEPTION) and that includes Tom Lee in Hong Kong.  A great majority of them -- in realms of 90% -- sound dead.  So it is also in New York for me. Its simple, the guys I buy from -- the actual guys making the guitar just tell me if it sounds good or not.  These guitars usually have lifetime warranties and are made of the best parts and the best woods by the best craftsmen or people with years and years of experience making guitars. And parts, halos the best parts na rin ang kabit nila.  So, what parts are we talking about here?  They are already standard.

A lot of comments have been made about lack of choice... Ok lets be realistic.  Suppose Fender USA has a 1 in 20 chance to get a good sounding guitar.  Assuming that each Fender USA Guitar is about P60k in retail and cost of goods sold is 50%, thats about P600k in inventory for some guy to make a choice and put P540k in obsolete inventory.  What would you guys do with P540k?  Probably buy a Soldano SLO and Diezel Herbert.  Tapos marami pang magsasabi na kapantay ng Fender USA ang mga gawa ng local luthier na mas mura.  So bakit ka tataya ng P540 k for one type of guitar pa lang -- strat pa lang iyon.  Paano ang Tele?  Paano ang charvel?  Paano ang Jackson?  Paano ang Gretsch? etc...

Can I try maski na wala akong pambili?  Kung 100 daan kayong susubok ng PRS USA at isa lang may perang bibili, palagay niyo bibilin pa ba niya pagkatapos subukan ng 99 na hindi bibili?  Kahit papaano may obligation rin ang mga stores dito sa mga taong may pang bili.  How would you feel if you saved up money only to find out that the expensive guitar you wanted was man handled by 99 other people and 99 times by the salesman/men (Kasi papalit palit sila).   I don't even believe that testing in local conditions is recommended dahil 1) hindi naman set up mo, 2) Ang bulok rin ng quality ng ibang kailangan mo i-test na kasama e.g. bad sounding amps, bad effects, bad signal cables, un regulated and un-grounded power supplies, etc.  Pati ako mismo bumili pa ng Lovepedal COT50 para maka test lang ng gitara dito sa pinas dahil panay solid state na ang sama ng tunog ang pang testing.  Mas mahal pa nga ang pedal kaysa sa mga amp na itong gawang china.  Magpalagay ng Sound room? -- magkaka affair lang ang salesman at kahera at mabubuntis ang kahera.  Kukuha siya ng leave at si salesman forced to resign dahil unethical ang ginawa niya.  So, kulang na naman ng tao sa store para bigyan ka ng tamang attention sa bisita mo.  Kaya aborido sila kung peak hours.

Parts?  Sounds like some kind of right.  But how many parts are we talking about here?  The number of SKUs are bewildering and the number of manpower required to track that much inventory is astounding and amount of working capital (cash) required for all these parts including spares.  Baka sa dami ng parts na kailangan, makaka assemble na ng mga gitara sa store.  And the problem is that part suppliers have minimum order quantities that are big.  Kung mag-order ka naman ng less than minimum order quantity, lahat ng fixed costs ay kailangan i-spread out sa smaller number of pieces kaya mas mataas.  Tapos, sana cheap lang?  Huwag kalimutan na may 12% output VAT pa.

Expensive?  May fixed costs na binabayaran ang store.  Rent and Utilities alone will reach up to 20% of their sales. Kailangan may air con di ba? Gastos pa iyon.  Kung hindi, pumunta na lang kayo sa pier.  I mean who would buy a P35k-P60k guitar in a rundown non-airconditioned shack na panay alikabok ng truck? Mag-dududa ka di ba? May working capital cost pa -- utang na binabayaran nila sa banko para masubukan mo ang 20 pieces ng Fender USA. The Philippines has one of the highest cost of money in the world.  Prime rates are at 8-10%, sa Japan 0.5-1% lang.  And of course, the much beloved labor which are paid at governed rates by law that have nothing do at all with efficiency or output.  We have one of the lowest output per unit of money spent.  May SSS pa iyon at mga leaves.  May kaltas pa ang gobyerno sa income ng mga salesmen na ito.  What do you expect?  Most of the day they just stare at the store and test new gear and harang or nakikipag harutan sa girls... at least for some of them.

Dapat kasing presyo ng USA online price or less... ang problema kailangan itawid ang produkto across 8,000 miles ng dagat at rail. Wala naman tayong volume dahil karamihan ay bumibili sa santa mesa at raon. Hindi di naman pwede air freight dahil mahal sa pinoy kung aabot ng 20-30% ng value ng korean or china na gitara ang freight.  Kung forty foot container van ang gamitin, kailangan ipuno.  Kaso hindi naman mapuno dahil gumagawa pa ng gitara sina jun, elegee at mang max.   Pwedeng less than container load, pero kasama mo ang mga ibang pasalubong na contraband at mercedes at BMW.  Mahal pa rin aabutin per cubic meter dahil less than container and subject pa to the custom inspector's whim dahil alam niya maraming pinoy na smugglers na gumagamit ng Less Than Container load.  Hihingi na lang ng lagay kaya mahal pa rin.

Wait a minute... did you know that a majority of Filipinos who will buy from these stores are actually kids with their moms and dads who will probably try out a musical instrument for one summer or a teenager in angst who does not care about tone in the long run.  Siguro para sa kanila, ang p5000 ay mahal na para sa isang electric guitar at amp.  Sasabihin pa nila mas cheap sa Cebu as if the best sounding guitars in the world come from Cebu.  For them, a strat is a strat as long as it looks like a strat.  A Gibson is a Gibson because it looks like a Gibson even if it is made in japan. Tingnan mo naman si Ramon Jacinto at Les Pu guitar niya na ka presyo lang ng isang buffet sa hotel -- sabi niya iyon.  Marami na raw siyang nabenta.  Tingin niyo, ilan lang ang bumili ng Taylor niya na gawang mexico?

In fact somebody once told me that the sales from the PA division and sound reinforcement keep the local big 3 dealers alive.  If you look at it from a per product line basis, lugi ang gitara tapos ang arte pa kausapin dahil ang daming alma sa gitara.  Ang PA mukhang boring kaya walang complaints.  Sa tingin ko, masuwerte pa nga tayo may nagbebenta pa ng guitar stuff sa mall kundi lahat tayo ay pupuntang santa mesa and we have to deal with those air heads in those shops.

Nope... the number one frustration in music stores in the Philippines is the customer themselves.  We get what we pay for.

I agree, to a certain extent. There just aren't enough people to buy.

[giftmones]

natahimik ako sa mahabang post na yun tama naman si sir hehe..
hmmm walan gretsch white falcon dito sa pinas haha!!!lol..

[Mindovermatter]

Do you guys really want these music stores to change in the Philippines?  Mag budget kayo lahat ng P100,000 and above for an electric guitar. 

I just want to correct the expectation that Guitar Stores should be like the Garden of Eden.  They ain't and are probably the worst place to buy good sounding guitars from.  Most of the good sounding stuff don't end up in these guitar stores.  Sure there is the one in 100 lucky pick but really the state of the retail industry is a reflection of the state of our standards and our budget.  Why do I say that?  Ask them if they have the right to send back inventory that does not sound good.  Given the cost of freight pabalik, hindi na rin gagawin ng JB, Yamaha, at Audiophile iyan.  Some USA dealers have this privilege because they control a huge amount of sales.  To be a Gibson dealer, at least US$100,000 a year dapat ang order mo.  So parang dapat may fifty (50) Pinoy customers ang bumili every year ng isang Historic for the same base of customers.  Remember, expectation ng Gibson ay palaki ang negosyo mo.  Ilan ba dito sa forum na ito ang may historic or VOS?

Right now, I am not anymore impressed with the stores here (NO EXCEPTION) and that includes Tom Lee in Hong Kong.  A great majority of them -- in realms of 90% -- sound dead.  So it is also in New York for me. Its simple, the guys I buy from -- the actual guys making the guitar just tell me if it sounds good or not.  These guitars usually have lifetime warranties and are made of the best parts and the best woods by the best craftsmen or people with years and years of experience making guitars. And parts, halos the best parts na rin ang kabit nila.  So, what parts are we talking about here?  They are already standard.

A lot of comments have been made about lack of choice... Ok lets be realistic.  Suppose Fender USA has a 1 in 20 chance to get a good sounding guitar.  Assuming that each Fender USA Guitar is about P60k in retail and cost of goods sold is 50%, thats about P600k in inventory for some guy to make a choice and put P540k in obsolete inventory.  What would you guys do with P540k?  Probably buy a Soldano SLO and Diezel Herbert.  Tapos marami pang magsasabi na kapantay ng Fender USA ang mga gawa ng local luthier na mas mura.  So bakit ka tataya ng P540 k for one type of guitar pa lang -- strat pa lang iyon.  Paano ang Tele?  Paano ang charvel?  Paano ang Jackson?  Paano ang Gretsch? etc...

Can I try maski na wala akong pambili?  Kung 100 daan kayong susubok ng PRS USA at isa lang may perang bibili, palagay niyo bibilin pa ba niya pagkatapos subukan ng 99 na hindi bibili?  Kahit papaano may obligation rin ang mga stores dito sa mga taong may pang bili.  How would you feel if you saved up money only to find out that the expensive guitar you wanted was man handled by 99 other people and 99 times by the salesman/men (Kasi papalit palit sila).   I don't even believe that testing in local conditions is recommended dahil 1) hindi naman set up mo, 2) Ang bulok rin ng quality ng ibang kailangan mo i-test na kasama e.g. bad sounding amps, bad effects, bad signal cables, un regulated and un-grounded power supplies, etc.  Pati ako mismo bumili pa ng Lovepedal COT50 para maka test lang ng gitara dito sa pinas dahil panay solid state na ang sama ng tunog ang pang testing.  Mas mahal pa nga ang pedal kaysa sa mga amp na itong gawang china.  Magpalagay ng Sound room? -- magkaka affair lang ang salesman at kahera at mabubuntis ang kahera.  Kukuha siya ng leave at si salesman forced to resign dahil unethical ang ginawa niya.  So, kulang na naman ng tao sa store para bigyan ka ng tamang attention sa bisita mo.  Kaya aborido sila kung peak hours.

Parts?  Sounds like some kind of right.  But how many parts are we talking about here?  The number of SKUs are bewildering and the number of manpower required to track that much inventory is astounding and amount of working capital (cash) required for all these parts including spares.  Baka sa dami ng parts na kailangan, makaka assemble na ng mga gitara sa store.  And the problem is that part suppliers have minimum order quantities that are big.  Kung mag-order ka naman ng less than minimum order quantity, lahat ng fixed costs ay kailangan i-spread out sa smaller number of pieces kaya mas mataas.  Tapos, sana cheap lang?  Huwag kalimutan na may 12% output VAT pa.

Expensive?  May fixed costs na binabayaran ang store.  Rent and Utilities alone will reach up to 20% of their sales. Kailangan may air con di ba? Gastos pa iyon.  Kung hindi, pumunta na lang kayo sa pier.  I mean who would buy a P35k-P60k guitar in a rundown non-airconditioned shack na panay alikabok ng truck? Mag-dududa ka di ba? May working capital cost pa -- utang na binabayaran nila sa banko para masubukan mo ang 20 pieces ng Fender USA. The Philippines has one of the highest cost of money in the world.  Prime rates are at 8-10%, sa Japan 0.5-1% lang.  And of course, the much beloved labor which are paid at governed rates by law that have nothing do at all with efficiency or output.  We have one of the lowest output per unit of money spent.  May SSS pa iyon at mga leaves.  May kaltas pa ang gobyerno sa income ng mga salesmen na ito.  What do you expect?  Most of the day they just stare at the store and test new gear and harang or nakikipag harutan sa girls... at least for some of them.

Dapat kasing presyo ng USA online price or less... ang problema kailangan itawid ang produkto across 8,000 miles ng dagat at rail. Wala naman tayong volume dahil karamihan ay bumibili sa santa mesa at raon. Hindi di naman pwede air freight dahil mahal sa pinoy kung aabot ng 20-30% ng value ng korean or china na gitara ang freight.  Kung forty foot container van ang gamitin, kailangan ipuno.  Kaso hindi naman mapuno dahil gumagawa pa ng gitara sina jun, elegee at mang max.   Pwedeng less than container load, pero kasama mo ang mga ibang pasalubong na contraband at mercedes at BMW.  Mahal pa rin aabutin per cubic meter dahil less than container and subject pa to the custom inspector's whim dahil alam niya maraming pinoy na smugglers na gumagamit ng Less Than Container load.  Hihingi na lang ng lagay kaya mahal pa rin.

Wait a minute... did you know that a majority of Filipinos who will buy from these stores are actually kids with their moms and dads who will probably try out a musical instrument for one summer or a teenager in angst who does not care about tone in the long run.  Siguro para sa kanila, ang p5000 ay mahal na para sa isang electric guitar at amp.  Sasabihin pa nila mas cheap sa Cebu as if the best sounding guitars in the world come from Cebu.  For them, a strat is a strat as long as it looks like a strat.  A Gibson is a Gibson because it looks like a Gibson even if it is made in japan. Tingnan mo naman si Ramon Jacinto at Les Pu guitar niya na ka presyo lang ng isang buffet sa hotel -- sabi niya iyon.  Marami na raw siyang nabenta.  Tingin niyo, ilan lang ang bumili ng Taylor niya na gawang mexico?

In fact somebody once told me that the sales from the PA division and sound reinforcement keep the local big 3 dealers alive.  If you look at it from a per product line basis, lugi ang gitara tapos ang arte pa kausapin dahil ang daming alma sa gitara.  Ang PA mukhang boring kaya walang complaints.  Sa tingin ko, masuwerte pa nga tayo may nagbebenta pa ng guitar stuff sa mall kundi lahat tayo ay pupuntang santa mesa and we have to deal with those air heads in those shops.

Nope... the number one frustration in music stores in the Philippines is the customer themselves.  We get what we pay for.

Money was just the problem. 

[Gep]

"If you want me to look like a Calvin Klein guy, then you should try to look like a Victoria's Secret girl."

[Saturn/Return]

"If you want me to look like a Calvin Klein guy, then you should try to look like a Victoria's Secret girl."

+1

[starbuko03]

Parang nakakaintimidate yung ibang tao, porket bata eh uuto utuin na.

[Nemorensis]

Do you guys really want these music stores to change in the Philippines?  Mag budget kayo lahat ng P100,000 and above for an electric guitar.  

I just want to correct the expectation that Guitar Stores should be like the Garden of Eden.  They ain't and are probably the worst place to buy good sounding guitars from.  Most of the good sounding stuff don't end up in these guitar stores.  Sure there is the one in 100 lucky pick but really the state of the retail industry is a reflection of the state of our standards and our budget.  Why do I say that?  Ask them if they have the right to send back inventory that does not sound good.  Given the cost of freight pabalik, hindi na rin gagawin ng JB, Yamaha, at Audiophile iyan.  Some USA dealers have this privilege because they control a huge amount of sales.  To be a Gibson dealer, at least US$100,000 a year dapat ang order mo.  So parang dapat may fifty (50) Pinoy customers ang bumili every year ng isang Historic for the same base of customers.  Remember, expectation ng Gibson ay palaki ang negosyo mo.  Ilan ba dito sa forum na ito ang may historic or VOS?

Right now, I am not anymore impressed with the stores here (NO EXCEPTION) and that includes Tom Lee in Hong Kong.  A great majority of them -- in realms of 90% -- sound dead.  So it is also in New York for me. Its simple, the guys I buy from -- the actual guys making the guitar just tell me if it sounds good or not.  These guitars usually have lifetime warranties and are made of the best parts and the best woods by the best craftsmen or people with years and years of experience making guitars. And parts, halos the best parts na rin ang kabit nila.  So, what parts are we talking about here?  They are already standard.

A lot of comments have been made about lack of choice... Ok lets be realistic.  Suppose Fender USA has a 1 in 20 chance to get a good sounding guitar.  Assuming that each Fender USA Guitar is about P60k in retail and cost of goods sold is 50%, thats about P600k in inventory for some guy to make a choice and put P540k in obsolete inventory.  What would you guys do with P540k?  Probably buy a Soldano SLO and Diezel Herbert.  Tapos marami pang magsasabi na kapantay ng Fender USA ang mga gawa ng local luthier na mas mura.  So bakit ka tataya ng P540 k for one type of guitar pa lang -- strat pa lang iyon.  Paano ang Tele?  Paano ang charvel?  Paano ang Jackson?  Paano ang Gretsch? etc...

Can I try maski na wala akong pambili?  Kung 100 daan kayong susubok ng PRS USA at isa lang may perang bibili, palagay niyo bibilin pa ba niya pagkatapos subukan ng 99 na hindi bibili?  Kahit papaano may obligation rin ang mga stores dito sa mga taong may pang bili.  How would you feel if you saved up money only to find out that the expensive guitar you wanted was man handled by 99 other people and 99 times by the salesman/men (Kasi papalit palit sila).   I don't even believe that testing in local conditions is recommended dahil 1) hindi naman set up mo, 2) Ang bulok rin ng quality ng ibang kailangan mo i-test na kasama e.g. bad sounding amps, bad effects, bad signal cables, un regulated and un-grounded power supplies, etc.  Pati ako mismo bumili pa ng Lovepedal COT50 para maka test lang ng gitara dito sa pinas dahil panay solid state na ang sama ng tunog ang pang testing.  Mas mahal pa nga ang pedal kaysa sa mga amp na itong gawang china.  Magpalagay ng Sound room? -- magkaka affair lang ang salesman at kahera at mabubuntis ang kahera.  Kukuha siya ng leave at si salesman forced to resign dahil unethical ang ginawa niya.  So, kulang na naman ng tao sa store para bigyan ka ng tamang attention sa bisita mo.  Kaya aborido sila kung peak hours.

Parts?  Sounds like some kind of right.  But how many parts are we talking about here?  The number of SKUs are bewildering and the number of manpower required to track that much inventory is astounding and amount of working capital (cash) required for all these parts including spares.  Baka sa dami ng parts na kailangan, makaka assemble na ng mga gitara sa store.  And the problem is that part suppliers have minimum order quantities that are big.  Kung mag-order ka naman ng less than minimum order quantity, lahat ng fixed costs ay kailangan i-spread out sa smaller number of pieces kaya mas mataas.  Tapos, sana cheap lang?  Huwag kalimutan na may 12% output VAT pa.

Expensive?  May fixed costs na binabayaran ang store.  Rent and Utilities alone will reach up to 20% of their sales. Kailangan may air con di ba? Gastos pa iyon.  Kung hindi, pumunta na lang kayo sa pier.  I mean who would buy a P35k-P60k guitar in a rundown non-airconditioned shack na panay alikabok ng truck? Mag-dududa ka di ba? May working capital cost pa -- utang na binabayaran nila sa banko para masubukan mo ang 20 pieces ng Fender USA. The Philippines has one of the highest cost of money in the world.  Prime rates are at 8-10%, sa Japan 0.5-1% lang.  And of course, the much beloved labor which are paid at governed rates by law that have nothing do at all with efficiency or output.  We have one of the lowest output per unit of money spent.  May SSS pa iyon at mga leaves.  May kaltas pa ang gobyerno sa income ng mga salesmen na ito.  What do you expect?  Most of the day they just stare at the store and test new gear and harang or nakikipag harutan sa girls... at least for some of them.

Dapat kasing presyo ng USA online price or less... ang problema kailangan itawid ang produkto across 8,000 miles ng dagat at rail. Wala naman tayong volume dahil karamihan ay bumibili sa santa mesa at raon. Hindi di naman pwede air freight dahil mahal sa pinoy kung aabot ng 20-30% ng value ng korean or china na gitara ang freight.  Kung forty foot container van ang gamitin, kailangan ipuno.  Kaso hindi naman mapuno dahil gumagawa pa ng gitara sina jun, elegee at mang max.   Pwedeng less than container load, pero kasama mo ang mga ibang pasalubong na contraband at mercedes at BMW.  Mahal pa rin aabutin per cubic meter dahil less than container and subject pa to the custom inspector's whim dahil alam niya maraming pinoy na smugglers na gumagamit ng Less Than Container load.  Hihingi na lang ng lagay kaya mahal pa rin.

Wait a minute... did you know that a majority of Filipinos who will buy from these stores are actually kids with their moms and dads who will probably try out a musical instrument for one summer or a teenager in angst who does not care about tone in the long run.  Siguro para sa kanila, ang p5000 ay mahal na para sa isang electric guitar at amp.  Sasabihin pa nila mas cheap sa Cebu as if the best sounding guitars in the world come from Cebu.  For them, a strat is a strat as long as it looks like a strat.  A Gibson is a Gibson because it looks like a Gibson even if it is made in japan. Tingnan mo naman si Ramon Jacinto at Les Pu guitar niya na ka presyo lang ng isang buffet sa hotel -- sabi niya iyon.  Marami na raw siyang nabenta.  Tingin niyo, ilan lang ang bumili ng Taylor niya na gawang mexico?

In fact somebody once told me that the sales from the PA division and sound reinforcement keep the local big 3 dealers alive.  If you look at it from a per product line basis, lugi ang gitara tapos ang arte pa kausapin dahil ang daming alma sa gitara.  Ang PA mukhang boring kaya walang complaints.  Sa tingin ko, masuwerte pa nga tayo may nagbebenta pa ng guitar stuff sa mall kundi lahat tayo ay pupuntang santa mesa and we have to deal with those air heads in those shops.

Nope... the number one frustration in music stores in the Philippines is the customer themselves.  We get what we pay for.

brilliant!!!! article na to for magz....

[glowstick]

based on my computations and observations, yung patong nila is usually approx. 80% of the internet price (depende pa yon sa exchange rate nung time na kinuha nila yung item). there are some exceptions of course like some of the ibanez guitars in audiophile. ok yung mga prices nila don. sa PJC rin minsan medyo ok (approx. 44% from the internet price). sa everymusic they're pretty much current with exchange rate, tapos yon, add the 44%, you get their price.

i could be wrong but yeah, this is what i use in case i'm too lazy to the store to ask for the price of a specific item.

Reklamo kayo ng reklamo...Una kung bumili kayo online eh nakakasiguro ba kayo na maayos yung darating na item? Second, yung price na ipinagyayabang ninyo eh kasama ba ang freight papunta dito?  Third, pag may problema under warranty (in case of electronics), sino magbabayad ng service at freight? 

Look you always get what you pay for....naknam...puro kayo reklamo pero ayaw magbayad ng maayos....Kaya mas mataas ang presyo dito eh una may tao kayong kausap, bayad na taxes niyan (kung matino kayong Pilipino), at meron silang pwesto na pede puntahan at rekisahin ang item....at pag nasira yung gamit meron kayong pwede murahin dito...o ano nasa inyo na kung saan kayo bibili

[glowstick]

Do you guys really want these music stores to change in the Philippines?  Mag budget kayo lahat ng P100,000 and above for an electric guitar. 

I just want to correct the expectation that Guitar Stores should be like the Garden of Eden.  They ain't and are probably the worst place to buy good sounding guitars from.  Most of the good sounding stuff don't end up in these guitar stores.  Sure there is the one in 100 lucky pick but really the state of the retail industry is a reflection of the state of our standards and our budget.  Why do I say that?  Ask them if they have the right to send back inventory that does not sound good.  Given the cost of freight pabalik, hindi na rin gagawin ng JB, Yamaha, at Audiophile iyan.  Some USA dealers have this privilege because they control a huge amount of sales.  To be a Gibson dealer, at least US$100,000 a year dapat ang order mo.  So parang dapat may fifty (50) Pinoy customers ang bumili every year ng isang Historic for the same base of customers.  Remember, expectation ng Gibson ay palaki ang negosyo mo.  Ilan ba dito sa forum na ito ang may historic or VOS?

Right now, I am not anymore impressed with the stores here (NO EXCEPTION) and that includes Tom Lee in Hong Kong.  A great majority of them -- in realms of 90% -- sound dead.  So it is also in New York for me. Its simple, the guys I buy from -- the actual guys making the guitar just tell me if it sounds good or not.  These guitars usually have lifetime warranties and are made of the best parts and the best woods by the best craftsmen or people with years and years of experience making guitars. And parts, halos the best parts na rin ang kabit nila.  So, what parts are we talking about here?  They are already standard.

A lot of comments have been made about lack of choice... Ok lets be realistic.  Suppose Fender USA has a 1 in 20 chance to get a good sounding guitar.  Assuming that each Fender USA Guitar is about P60k in retail and cost of goods sold is 50%, thats about P600k in inventory for some guy to make a choice and put P540k in obsolete inventory.  What would you guys do with P540k?  Probably buy a Soldano SLO and Diezel Herbert.  Tapos marami pang magsasabi na kapantay ng Fender USA ang mga gawa ng local luthier na mas mura.  So bakit ka tataya ng P540 k for one type of guitar pa lang -- strat pa lang iyon.  Paano ang Tele?  Paano ang charvel?  Paano ang Jackson?  Paano ang Gretsch? etc...

Can I try maski na wala akong pambili?  Kung 100 daan kayong susubok ng PRS USA at isa lang may perang bibili, palagay niyo bibilin pa ba niya pagkatapos subukan ng 99 na hindi bibili?  Kahit papaano may obligation rin ang mga stores dito sa mga taong may pang bili.  How would you feel if you saved up money only to find out that the expensive guitar you wanted was man handled by 99 other people and 99 times by the salesman/men (Kasi papalit palit sila).   I don't even believe that testing in local conditions is recommended dahil 1) hindi naman set up mo, 2) Ang bulok rin ng quality ng ibang kailangan mo i-test na kasama e.g. bad sounding amps, bad effects, bad signal cables, un regulated and un-grounded power supplies, etc.  Pati ako mismo bumili pa ng Lovepedal COT50 para maka test lang ng gitara dito sa pinas dahil panay solid state na ang sama ng tunog ang pang testing.  Mas mahal pa nga ang pedal kaysa sa mga amp na itong gawang china.  Magpalagay ng Sound room? -- magkaka affair lang ang salesman at kahera at mabubuntis ang kahera.  Kukuha siya ng leave at si salesman forced to resign dahil unethical ang ginawa niya.  So, kulang na naman ng tao sa store para bigyan ka ng tamang attention sa bisita mo.  Kaya aborido sila kung peak hours.

Parts?  Sounds like some kind of right.  But how many parts are we talking about here?  The number of SKUs are bewildering and the number of manpower required to track that much inventory is astounding and amount of working capital (cash) required for all these parts including spares.  Baka sa dami ng parts na kailangan, makaka assemble na ng mga gitara sa store.  And the problem is that part suppliers have minimum order quantities that are big.  Kung mag-order ka naman ng less than minimum order quantity, lahat ng fixed costs ay kailangan i-spread out sa smaller number of pieces kaya mas mataas.  Tapos, sana cheap lang?  Huwag kalimutan na may 12% output VAT pa.

Expensive?  May fixed costs na binabayaran ang store.  Rent and Utilities alone will reach up to 20% of their sales. Kailangan may air con di ba? Gastos pa iyon.  Kung hindi, pumunta na lang kayo sa pier.  I mean who would buy a P35k-P60k guitar in a rundown non-airconditioned shack na panay alikabok ng truck? Mag-dududa ka di ba? May working capital cost pa -- utang na binabayaran nila sa banko para masubukan mo ang 20 pieces ng Fender USA. The Philippines has one of the highest cost of money in the world.  Prime rates are at 8-10%, sa Japan 0.5-1% lang.  And of course, the much beloved labor which are paid at governed rates by law that have nothing do at all with efficiency or output.  We have one of the lowest output per unit of money spent.  May SSS pa iyon at mga leaves.  May kaltas pa ang gobyerno sa income ng mga salesmen na ito.  What do you expect?  Most of the day they just stare at the store and test new gear and harang or nakikipag harutan sa girls... at least for some of them.

Dapat kasing presyo ng USA online price or less... ang problema kailangan itawid ang produkto across 8,000 miles ng dagat at rail. Wala naman tayong volume dahil karamihan ay bumibili sa santa mesa at raon. Hindi di naman pwede air freight dahil mahal sa pinoy kung aabot ng 20-30% ng value ng korean or china na gitara ang freight.  Kung forty foot container van ang gamitin, kailangan ipuno.  Kaso hindi naman mapuno dahil gumagawa pa ng gitara sina jun, elegee at mang max.   Pwedeng less than container load, pero kasama mo ang mga ibang pasalubong na contraband at mercedes at BMW.  Mahal pa rin aabutin per cubic meter dahil less than container and subject pa to the custom inspector's whim dahil alam niya maraming pinoy na smugglers na gumagamit ng Less Than Container load.  Hihingi na lang ng lagay kaya mahal pa rin.

Wait a minute... did you know that a majority of Filipinos who will buy from these stores are actually kids with their moms and dads who will probably try out a musical instrument for one summer or a teenager in angst who does not care about tone in the long run.  Siguro para sa kanila, ang p5000 ay mahal na para sa isang electric guitar at amp.  Sasabihin pa nila mas cheap sa Cebu as if the best sounding guitars in the world come from Cebu.  For them, a strat is a strat as long as it looks like a strat.  A Gibson is a Gibson because it looks like a Gibson even if it is made in japan. Tingnan mo naman si Ramon Jacinto at Les Pu guitar niya na ka presyo lang ng isang buffet sa hotel -- sabi niya iyon.  Marami na raw siyang nabenta.  Tingin niyo, ilan lang ang bumili ng Taylor niya na gawang mexico?

In fact somebody once told me that the sales from the PA division and sound reinforcement keep the local big 3 dealers alive.  If you look at it from a per product line basis, lugi ang gitara tapos ang arte pa kausapin dahil ang daming alma sa gitara.  Ang PA mukhang boring kaya walang complaints.  Sa tingin ko, masuwerte pa nga tayo may nagbebenta pa ng guitar stuff sa mall kundi lahat tayo ay pupuntang santa mesa and we have to deal with those air heads in those shops.

Nope... the number one frustration in music stores in the Philippines is the customer themselves.  We get what we pay for.

VERY NICE AND VERY TRUTHFUL POST....HOY MGA REKLAMADOR ANO MASASABI NINYO!

[glowstick]

Hmmm, I'm not gonna complain about the stocks and whatever is not available in a music store. But having experienced being in Guitar Center CA and IL, I'm wondering what's keeping the local music stores from being at par with them in terms of making customers feel welcome and encourage interest in playing an instrument. This way you don't just attract musicians but curious individuals who may just get into music because they were allowed to look closer, touch and feel the atmosphere of a friendly show room type environment. It's difficult to describe, but imagine a music store that when you walk in you see guitars and amps paired up and setup with cables and stools. So all you have to do is sit down and play. Not to mention that sample stomp boxes and effects are just there lying around with a sticker on it saying "Try Me!!!"

Sinong hindi magkaka-interes sa ganitong setup? Even non musicians may just get in to the hobby.

Sorry pero you cannot compare apples and oranges....Magkano average na sahod dito as compared sa USA?  There is no debate on buying capabilities of Americans.  Therefore you cannot afford to let every Juan and Pedro test especially an expensive guitar only to depreciate it's value.  Di tulad sa USA eh peanuts lang ang pagbili ng gamit para sa kanila.

Now if anyone thinks they can do a better job, then open your own shop dito kahit magpagamit kayo as dummy ng shops you can find in America para maka conduct kayo ng business dito.  I love to see these shops close down without lifting a finger.

[renz13]

Parang nakakaintimidate yung ibang tao, porket bata eh uuto utuin na.

uu nga po prang po dti sa local store po d2 smin ung bgo pong tindera d ako pinapansin.....nag tanung ako ng string tinetechnical pa ako mali naman hehe.......d lang nya alam bestfriend ako nung may ari nung store hehe.......

[boogsy]

"If you want me to look like a Calvin Klein guy, then you should try to look like a Victoria's Secret girl."

/thread

[kayo2jp]

no wonder bagsakan talaga tayo ng mga NG!!!(no good) pa custom na lang kayo!!!

[IncX]

firemodel's post in this thread is one of the best "editorials" ive read.

[aarongtr]

limited choices! mga maayos na mic, gitara mejo madami pero sa classical guitar kawawa, at mayayabang na tindero

[outnote]

It's that I can't afford most of the stuff that I want. LOL!

[glowstick]

limited choices! mga maayos na mic, gitara mejo madami pero sa classical guitar kawawa, at mayayabang na tindero

i would agree pero bilang lang yan...bulong ko na lang sa iyo kung sino yun..

[DovoodooMiracleman]

My first time at guitar central, thanks to markv for encouraging me to hang out here, I'm always at the classifieds.

This was a very interesting post, I've learned a lot just reading through, and yes I've had my frustrations.

Being in any business, a music store as such will have risks, and I guess as customers, we just demand a little respect for the well earned money we are willing to invest. Whatever product we are buying may it be a guitar, an amp or a pick, we are still patronizing their products. In my point of view the only way we will know that a product suits us is if it grows on you when you test it. Trying out products in a music store is a risk which the store must expect to take. It is also risk for us customers by shelling out those big bucks.

It's proper training on customer service and customer care which the store needs to take into consideration with their staff. A big part of it is our culture which is now slowly deteriorating that we need to change, it is how we judge our own based on appearance, how some are just lazy and unenthusiastic to demonstrate what the product really is mainly due to their very minimal salaries. The hard part for them is cleaning it up and placing it back on the stand if a customer doesnt buy. Well it's all part of their responsibility working as a sales person. Back in the 90's when you pay for something did we ever encounter a cashier asking..."maam or sir...meron po ba kayong piso?" for them to give exact change? rarely, now it's everywhere...for me this is a sign of laziness. Yes we are far off in customer service compared to the stores abroad.

As for prices, it's our government. I work for an international coureir company and yes, customs taxes everything not considerd as a document these days.

A tip:
Know the mall's admin office...we have every right to complain of rude employees, at least the owner of the store will be aware, and do it in writing.

Stores in Makati with friendly customer service at least are:
Audiophile MCS

Perfect Pitch Park Square - I was not happy with the SD-1 I bought and they replaced it with a TR-2, just had to add a little, but off course I was in my barong uniform.

[markv]

What are your frustrations regarding music stores in the Philippines?

may mga maagas.

[glowstick]

Being in any business, a music store as such will have risks, and I guess as customers, we just demand a little respect for the well earned money we are willing to invest. Whatever product we are buying may it be a guitar, an amp or a pick, we are still patronizing their products. In my point of view the only way we will know that a product suits us is if it grows on you when you test it. Trying out products in a music store is a risk which the store must expect to take. It is also risk for us customers by shelling out those big bucks.

It's proper training on customer service and customer care which the store needs to take into consideration with their staff. A big part of it is our culture which is now slowly deteriorating that we need to change, it is how we judge our own based on appearance, how some are just lazy and unenthusiastic to demonstrate what the product really is mainly due to their very minimal salaries. The hard part for them is cleaning it up and placing it back on the stand if a customer doesnt buy. Well it's all part of their responsibility working as a sales person. Back in the 90's when you pay for something did we ever encounter a cashier asking..."maam or sir...meron po ba kayong piso?" for them to give exact change? rarely, now it's everywhere...for me this is a sign of laziness. Yes we are far off in customer service compared to the stores abroad.

As for prices, it's our government. I work for an international coureir company and yes, customs taxes everything not considerd as a document these days.

A tip:
Know the mall's admin office...we have every right to complain of rude employees, at least the owner of the store will be aware, and do it in writing.

Stores in Makati with friendly customer service at least are:
Audiophile MCS

Perfect Pitch Park Square - I was not happy with the SD-1 I bought and they replaced it with a TR-2, just had to add a little, but off course I was in my barong uniform.

Sorry but I don't think it is a fair comparison between an online store and the one you see around like Audiophile/JB Music/Perfect Pitch etc.  With an online store you cannot test it before you even lay down your cards.  I have not heard anybody here whine about that so I feel that is totally unfair.  Because of plain simple mathematics and economics, not all deserves a test drive.  I sold a digital console overseas worth millions of pesos here even without letting every sound guy touch it for the owner.  Much like a car showroom, you cannot test every color of the same model of car to find out which one suits you should you decide to get one or even just look around.

With your concern about asking for change, back in the days gone by long time ago you have to remember there was no 500 peso bill .  As the money supply inflates there is a need for more loose change.  You ought to know that these shops do not have anything in the cash drawer when they start the day so don't expect them to give you change for 1000 pesos when all you will buy is just a guitar pick.  A lot of companies do not trust much their people. As customers we ought to show some good manners and reasonable consideration.  I have been also asked for loose change even in the US when I had only a hundred dollar bill to pay for a few bottles of beer. 

Unenthusiastic because of low pay??? Yes, you are right on that. However, companies here cannot afford to pay higher salaries because of the low margins they could only make for the product being sold.  Much worse a lot expect AP/JB/PP to drop off their pants just because Sweetwater has a lower price....

C'mon guys.....be realistic.....

[DiMarzSiao]

wala naman dapat frustrations...
kaya lang nagkakaroon kasi, na c-compare sa mga music stores sa mga "rich" countries.

IMO

[sonikyut]

..lots of love sa thread na to 

envy
greed
GAS
walang pera
di bale nang magutom basta may gitara at gadget lang
daming kulang
pride

[Icehart]

hindi completo ung guitars d2. squiers na nga lang di pa complete. hanap ako ng hanap ng j5 squier tele. wala d2 kahit saan. kailangan pa talaga iimport.

[pakool]

Yung nakakainis minsan, pag bumili ka ng gamit sakanila tapos nagsale kinabukasan at nagmura, di mo maibabalik yung pera na nalugi sayo. Sa ibang lugar like US e narereimburse yung customer kung ganun man yung kaso, pakita mo lang resibo mo.

Ayun, bukod sa mga kulang-kulang na pagpipilian, mga tao at iba pa. Kakafrustrate talaga pag wala kang pambili. Hehehe

[ierofan]

yeah, very true an laki ng patong ng mga stores, internet prices napakamura tapus pagdating dito doble na yung price, parang nung pumunta ako sa isang music store sa ali-mall cubao, yung Crate v33h na tube amp head $329 = 16121 pesos lang pero pagdating dun naging 27k ata yun kung indi ako nagkakamali...halos DOBLE yung persyo, ganun din sa ibang mga stores... Tapus ala ding mga accessories, mga Tubes, Jensen Speakers, mga Guitar Parts, Musicman Guitars din, andaming essential na kagamitan na hindi mu makakamit dito sa pinas... tapus mga suplado suplada pa mga nag bebenta sa mga stores!!! nakaka frustrate lang... hehehe

{int shipping_fee, tax, mall_rent, orig_price, new_price;
}