Guitar sounds like [gooey brown stuff]...

[joetweakhead]

Hi starfugger, Baldo & Abys,

Your points are well taken. Economics certainly plays a big role in Philippine music situation, Quiapo and greenhills taken into account. There's still a lot of revenue being generated by the label in spite of the piracy. Piracy is a global problem,  it's just more rampant in the Philippines.
But record companies are still in business. Maybe Edu Manzano is actually doing his job. Record companies will make their money no matter what. In this business, we see the label as the evil empire hoarding all earnings from an artist's album. But that's a myth, it's the songwriter and publisher that gets most of the pie. The label merely  gets a sizeable piece that's why they have to sign a lot of artists to make up for one artist that didn't sell. They're in this business not to lose money. And yes it's the label's responsibility to filter out the demo sounding recordings and re-record that or have it re-mixed. That's the bulk of my work now and I get a lot of work from labels wanting to improve the quality. Once in a while I'll get Sonar and Cubase/Nuendo files and see what they did to the mix, how they implemented plug ins (compression, EQ). The first thing that comes to mind: "How the hell do they survive out there in this recording business having  a mix like this"? I see the problem is with the use or misuse of EQ & compression  and gain-staging. My 4 year old can do better. And my point of knowing your craft in earlier posts rings louder now. Sure, flat frequency speakers help the mix, but knowledge plus a good set of ears will help more. And get this, one mix even put a reverb on each and every track thru inserts. Haven't they heard of Aux sends thru one reverb plugin and sharing it with, say, all drums drum tracks?
This is simple sound engineering knowledge that this new crop of these so-called mixing engineers simply do not share.  He probably has 2 gigs of memory to support all the reverb plugins he inserted on each track. And the settings are all the same. Go figure. Does this only happen to DAW users? A perfect example of too much gear in the hands of amateurs and sounding bad as opposed to less gear for the pro engineer but who could make it sound like a commercial release.
I learned from an analog board and one or 2 outboard gear. I learned how to allocate compression to tracks that need it in the mix and sharing one reverb box to all tracks with varying wet/dry settings. Doesn't anybody teach that stuff here? There's a wealth of information out there, in the net, Recording Magazine, Electronic Musician, Mix Magazine to actually digest and learn from.

So let's improve our audio professionals' sound quality thru practice and research and listening. And maybe tomorrow, we'll wake up to a robust music industry here in the Phils.

Till next time, gentlepeople,

Joe Tweakhead

[joetweakhead]

Hi starfugger, Baldo & Abys,

Your points are well taken. Economics certainly plays a big role in Philippine music situation, Quiapo and greenhills taken into account. There's still a lot of revenue being generated by the label in spite of the piracy. Piracy is a global problem,  it's just more rampant in the Philippines.
But record companies are still in business. Maybe Edu Manzano is actually doing his job. Record companies will make their money no matter what. In this business, we see the label as the evil empire hoarding all earnings from an artist's album. But that's a myth, it's the songwriter and publisher that gets most of the pie. The label merely  gets a sizeable piece that's why they have to sign a lot of artists to make up for one artist that didn't sell. They're in this business not to lose money. And yes it's the label's responsibility to filter out the demo sounding recordings and re-record that or have it re-mixed. That's the bulk of my work now and I get a lot of work from labels wanting to improve the quality. Once in a while I'll get Sonar and Cubase/Nuendo files and see what they did to the mix, how they implemented plug ins (compression, EQ). The first thing that comes to mind: "How the hell do they survive out there in this recording business having  a mix like this"? I see the problem is with the use or misuse of EQ & compression  and gain-staging. My 4 year old can do better. And my point of knowing your craft in earlier posts rings louder now. Sure, flat frequency speakers help the mix, but knowledge plus a good set of ears will help more. And get this, one mix even put a reverb on each and every track thru inserts. Haven't they heard of Aux sends thru one reverb plugin and sharing it with, say, all drums drum tracks?
This is simple sound engineering knowledge that this new crop of these so-called mixing engineers simply do not share.  He probably has 2 gigs of memory to support all the reverb plugins he inserted on each track. And the settings are all the same. Go figure. Does this only happen to DAW users? A perfect example of too much gear in the hands of amateurs and sounding bad as opposed to less gear for the pro engineer but who could make it sound like a commercial release.
I learned from an analog board and one or 2 outboard gear. I learned how to allocate compression to tracks that need it in the mix and sharing one reverb box to all tracks with varying wet/dry settings. Doesn't anybody teach that stuff here? There's a wealth of information out there, in the net, Recording Magazine, Electronic Musician, Mix Magazine to actually digest and learn from.

So let's improve our audio professionals' sound quality thru practice and research and listening. And maybe tomorrow, we'll wake up to a robust music industry here in the Phils.

Till next time, gentlepeople,

Joe Tweakhead

[joetweakhead]

Hi starfugger, Baldo & Abys,

Your points are well taken. Economics certainly plays a big role in Philippine music situation, Quiapo and greenhills taken into account. There's still a lot of revenue being generated by the label in spite of the piracy. Piracy is a global problem,  it's just more rampant in the Philippines.
But record companies are still in business. Maybe Edu Manzano is actually doing his job. Record companies will make their money no matter what. In this business, we see the label as the evil empire hoarding all earnings from an artist's album. But that's a myth, it's the songwriter and publisher that gets most of the pie. The label merely  gets a sizeable piece that's why they have to sign a lot of artists to make up for one artist that didn't sell. They're in this business not to lose money. And yes it's the label's responsibility to filter out the demo sounding recordings and re-record that or have it re-mixed. That's the bulk of my work now and I get a lot of work from labels wanting to improve the quality. Once in a while I'll get Sonar and Cubase/Nuendo files and see what they did to the mix, how they implemented plug ins (compression, EQ). The first thing that comes to mind: "How the hell do they survive out there in this recording business having  a mix like this"? I see the problem is with the use or misuse of EQ & compression  and gain-staging. My 4 year old can do better. And my point of knowing your craft in earlier posts rings louder now. Sure, flat frequency speakers help the mix, but knowledge plus a good set of ears will help more. And get this, one mix even put a reverb on each and every track thru inserts. Haven't they heard of Aux sends thru one reverb plugin and sharing it with, say, all drums drum tracks?
This is simple sound engineering knowledge that this new crop of these so-called mixing engineers simply do not share.  He probably has 2 gigs of memory to support all the reverb plugins he inserted on each track. And the settings are all the same. Go figure. Does this only happen to DAW users? A perfect example of too much gear in the hands of amateurs and sounding bad as opposed to less gear for the pro engineer but who could make it sound like a commercial release.
I learned from an analog board and one or 2 outboard gear. I learned how to allocate compression to tracks that need it in the mix and sharing one reverb box to all tracks with varying wet/dry settings. Doesn't anybody teach that stuff here? There's a wealth of information out there, in the net, Recording Magazine, Electronic Musician, Mix Magazine to actually digest and learn from.

So let's improve our audio professionals' sound quality thru practice and research and listening. And maybe tomorrow, we'll wake up to a robust music industry here in the Phils.

Till next time, gentlepeople,

Joe Tweakhead

[joetweakhead]

oops! hit the send button one too many times...my apologies

[starfugger]

i understand joetweekhead.  this is why i reiterate what i earlier said.  systematic education is key.  if we were taught how to maximize the equipment that is already available to us then perhaps we can spew world class quality sounds straight from our own bedrroms.  i have sure heard a lot of home made songs in the states that sound a lot better than commercially released music here in the Philippines.  this gives me a lot of hope, not just for myself but for the whole industry. baka nga talagang budget at panahon lang ang kailangan, at respeto sa paying public.  

i appreciate what you said about working with outboard gear, since it really takes a lot longer if you have to insert per track, one learns to share the effects.  i suppose the dawn of DAW and DIY have caused a lot of bad habits among mix engineers, especially those who were not blessed to learn their chops from analog equipment.  the influx of all these wonderful digital technology has steered us into a path of dependence, complacency, and one-click solutions, hence making it easier to make more mistakes faster than one can say "doh".  even magazines like EQ have shifted its focus from technique to technology.  i have copies of these magazines from as early as 1997 (back issues) and i noticed that the new format no longer have these knowldege packed pages featuring engineers like Geoff Emerick or Butch Vig getting into the details of their sessions.  thse days theyre mostly pushing products and plugins.  nonetheless magazines are a truly valuable source of information.

ano kaya if we hold some sort of seminar focused on digital mixing ITB?  or at the very least a thread on the basics of recording and mixing.

[abyssinianson]

hmm..that sounds like a very good suggestion. if Philmusic.com had a section devoted specifically to mixing and arranging, perhaps the overall growth of collective skills would be much faster. i don't know if there are currently any seminars available for people interested in this on the site but it would be good to see how current producers in the Phils are doing their "thing," and how people can take that and expand on it further, making the resulting mixes even better.

in my experience, there really aren't enough teacher-student settings for engineering mixes unless you devote a lot of time specifically to that approach. i know I certainly haven't had a direct approach to my learning over the years as my experience has been a mosaic of tips and instruction from classes, seminars, tons of reading, and endless experimentation with my own equipment.

[starfugger]

wouldn't it be exciting, to put up a something like Berkleeonline.com, but particularly aimed at Filipino recording/music industry?  that would truly be revolutionary, abyss.  everyone can contribute at the convenience of their own homes, and it wouldn't be very difficult to even get guest instructors from all over the world!  and what's more exciting if it is affordable to every pinoy who wishes to turn audio engineering into a career!  im all fired up at the thought.  realistically though this kind of thing will cost a lot of money to put up, so maybe we can start with even just a yahoogroup where a basic theory is explained per week, while participants try to apply that basic theory to a given audio sample, and then submit the processed audio sample for critique or approval ... or something to that effect... all in the effort of improving our craft collectively as pinoy recording enthusiasts/professionals.

how does that sound?

[BALDO]

I AGREE!!! AMEN!!

[abyssinianson]

that would be great, starfugger. kit, what do you think? I know you contribute and are an active participant of some other recording forums as well. personally, i would be interested in contributing periodically as well as long as hosting is taken care of and the groups is held closely in conjunction with Philmusic.com to spread the word much better. as far as I am concerned, I am very much interested in contributing what I know about acoustic recording which may be applied to more intimate "unplugged" sessions. here,  i would love to cover recording acoustic guitar, vocals, bass, and maybe minimalist acoustic accompaniment with shakers, cajon, tablas, and electronica programming to produce a song with a more earthy approach.

[KitC]

that would be great, starfugger. kit, what do you think? I know you contribute and are an active participant of some other recording forums as well.

I'm all for it. My experience, however, limits me to the computer side of things, hardware and software as of late, and I haven't been exposed to as much gear as you have, abyss. But I'm more than willing to share whatever information I have.

[BALDO]

maybe, just maybe... my LIMITED experiences sa guitar / bass guitar care and set up..drum machines , midi , amplifier stuff, at basic recording skills e makatulong din kapag wala ang mga PROS dito hehehe..

[ksuayan]

KSUAYAN
interesting work..  can you pan the high hat sound slightly to the left or right, it might create a perception of better sound separation, also try to pan from left to right the synth sounds. just my idea...

Baldo,

Salamat sa tip. I will try that and the other suggestions previously noted when I do a second run for the mix.

-kyo-

[BALDO]

ksuayan
its kool.. o nagawa mo na ba? tell me how it sounds.. di ba its better kasi nagkaroon ng dimension yung sound? also heed abbys's advice na double track the guitar sound.

[joetweakhead]

Hey guys,

Now you're talkin'. Sure I have a lot to contribute. I'm sure to make time from my busy sked. But since i got everybody's commitment on this, let's begin. This is the kind of reaction I'm hoping for.

I'm writing my first lesson as we speak.

Joe Tweakhead

[starfugger]

hey guys! was out of town for a while there. this is really great.  ok, joe, maybe we should start with the most basic points first of all. who'd like to make a separate thread for this? for sound samples maybe we can use geocities or something.  perhaps those of you with formal training can draw up some sort of course outline para systematic.  good to hear everyone's ready to share his know-how ditto that BALDO, let's all pitch in!