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Author Topic: True Acoustic Tone  (Read 1164633 times)

Offline royc

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #625 on: January 09, 2008, 08:45:50 AM »

3. Meron din kcing XLR input ung ibanez AEL20E ko so I can drectly connect to our Fender Passport mixer through the XLR input ng mixer. My question is pag XLR connection ba ang gamit ko papunta sa mixer,kelangan ko parin ba ng DI?Or balanced na ba ang signal pag sa XLR dumaan?

Balanced na yang XLR out nya and you can connect directly sa mixer. Pero kung gusto mo ng DI try mo yung behringer mic200 at low gain malaki maririnig mong improvement sa sound quality.

Offline andrew_bonn

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #626 on: January 09, 2008, 09:23:00 AM »
Quote
ito bro baka makatulong.  i lifted this straight from the manual ng LR
Baggs Para Acoustic DI.  may "Invert" button kasi yun and the description
is more or less like Phase.  ito yun:
"Phase affects the way the guitar top is pressured by the loud speakers. 
When the two are out of phase with each other, low end feedback will be
minimized.  Phase will also affect the way the guitar signal mixes live
and on tape with other instruments."

Thanks for the info.Medyo hindi parin clear sakn..pero parang feeling ko pang minimize ba ng feedback pag kasabayan ung ibang mga instrumentong malalakas tulad ng mga electric guitar n bass guitars? Nung sunday kc,nung tumugtog kami, nakatapat ako sa Hartke na amp ng electric guitar ng kasama ko kaya time to time may naririnig akong gradual feedback against dun sa body ng acoustic guitar ko. Bka nga un ang purpose nun. Cge,tatry ko ulet this sunday. Salamat dud!


Quote
Balanced na yang XLR out nya and you can connect directly sa mixer. Pero
kung gusto mo ng DI try mo yung behringer mic200 at low gain malaki
maririnig mong improvement sa sound quality.

Thanks for the info. Mas mganda nga ang tunog pag naka XLR sa napansin ko. Mas gusto ko nga ang tunog pag nakasaksak sa mixer kaysa naka acoustic amp ako. Tunog natural wood tsaka prang bukang buka ung tunog. Check ko rin yang Behringer mic200.

Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #627 on: January 09, 2008, 09:32:15 AM »
Thanks for the info.Medyo hindi parin clear sakn..pero parang feeling ko pang minimize ba ng feedback pag kasabayan ung ibang mga instrumentong malalakas tulad ng mga electric guitar n bass guitars? Nung sunday kc,nung tumugtog kami, nakatapat ako sa Hartke na amp ng electric guitar ng kasama ko kaya time to time may naririnig akong gradual feedback against dun sa body ng acoustic guitar ko. Bka nga un ang purpose nun. Cge,tatry ko ulet this sunday. Salamat dud!


Thanks for the info. Mas mganda nga ang tunog pag naka XLR sa napansin ko. Mas gusto ko nga ang tunog pag nakasaksak sa mixer kaysa naka acoustic amp ako. Tunog natural wood tsaka prang bukang buka ung tunog. Check ko rin yang Behringer mic200.


cge bro i-try mo ulit tapos lagay mo dito yung naging effect.  :-)

bro, diba Fender Passport gamit mo?  eh kahit hindi XLR ang gamitin mo to connect, maganda parin tunog mo pag yun ang gamit mo.  i've tried connecting to a Passport using PL lang and malinis parin.  mixers are usually better than acoustic amps if you want the natural acoustic tone to come out from your guitar.  :-) 

if u want to try out a DI box, try also Samson (not really sure about the brand...basta sounds like this. hehehe!) na available sa audiophile.  around 2k+ lang ang price and maganda pa tignan.  :-)
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Offline royc

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #628 on: January 09, 2008, 11:13:44 AM »
Thanks for the info. Mas mganda nga ang tunog pag naka XLR sa napansin ko. Mas gusto ko nga ang tunog pag nakasaksak sa mixer kaysa naka acoustic amp ako. Tunog natural wood tsaka prang bukang buka ung tunog. Check ko rin yang Behringer mic200.


Forgot to say lagay mo lang sa valve setting yung mic200.

Offline andrew_bonn

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #629 on: January 09, 2008, 01:08:52 PM »
Quote
cge bro i-try mo ulit tapos lagay mo dito yung naging effect. 
bro, diba Fender Passport gamit mo?  eh kahit hindi XLR ang gamitin mo to connect, maganda parin tunog mo pag yun ang gamit mo.  i've tried connecting to a Passport using PL lang and malinis parin.  mixers are usually better than acoustic amps if you want the natural acoustic tone to come out from your guitar.   
if u want to try out a DI box, try also Samson (not really sure about the brand...basta sounds like this. hehehe!) na available sa audiophile.  around 2k+ lang ang price and maganda pa tignan. 

May PL port nga rin ung Fender Passport mixer pero ang napansin ko kc dun mdyo mahina ung tunog pag dun ako nakasaksak sa PL, prang medyo pigil ung tunog,tinry ko na ung mga EQ settings ganon parin e. Lam ko may switch un e to optimize whether a mic is used sa XLR port or instrument sa PL. Pero dko pa chinecheck. Pero so far satisified tlga ko sa 2nog pag sa XLR ako connected sa mixer. Try ko rin icheck ung Samson na sinasabi mo sa AudioPhile. Tnx Bro.



Offline dantuts

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #630 on: January 10, 2008, 05:59:35 PM »
regarding phase inverter...here's what i know.

ang mga pickups may polarity yun .. meaning may positive/negative.. pati piezo mayroon (dahil magnet)

pag naka on ang phase inverter, nag papalit ang polarity ng pickups. so nagiging "out of phase" na sya.. pag "out of phase" na ang pickups, mayroon change sa tunog dahil may mga "frequencies" na "naka-cancel out" ..

medyo numinipis yung tunog pag "out of phase" but some players prefer the tone..
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Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #631 on: January 10, 2008, 08:13:57 PM »
regarding phase inverter...here's what i know.

ang mga pickups may polarity yun .. meaning may positive/negative.. pati piezo mayroon (dahil magnet)

pag naka on ang phase inverter, nag papalit ang polarity ng pickups. so nagiging "out of phase" na sya.. pag "out of phase" na ang pickups, mayroon change sa tunog dahil may mga "frequencies" na "naka-cancel out" ..

medyo numinipis yung tunog pag "out of phase" but some players prefer the tone..

thanks for the info sir!  :-)
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Offline andrew_bonn

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #632 on: January 10, 2008, 09:32:08 PM »
Quote
regarding phase inverter...here's what i know.

ang mga pickups may polarity yun .. meaning may positive/negative.. pati piezo mayroon (dahil magnet)

pag naka on ang phase inverter, nag papalit ang polarity ng pickups. so nagiging "out of phase" na sya.. pag "out of phase" na ang pickups, mayroon change sa tunog dahil may mga "frequencies" na "naka-cancel out" ..

medyo numinipis yung tunog pag "out of phase" but some players prefer the tone..

aa...ok..un nga ung exactly na nangyayari. Parang numinipis ng konte pero very slight lang tlga. Ayt..tnx sir.

Offline in_the_tent

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #633 on: January 11, 2008, 12:19:53 AM »
Any reviews of the Behringer Reverb for acoustic guitar? :-)
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Offline in_the_tent

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #634 on: January 12, 2008, 03:54:34 PM »
my pastor friend is looking for an acoustic elec guitar. 8k budget. any suggestion? me 2nd hand bang available?
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Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #635 on: January 12, 2008, 03:58:12 PM »
my pastor friend is looking for an acoustic elec guitar. 8k budget. any suggestion? me 2nd hand bang available?

meron mga acoustic na binebenta sa classifieds pero hindi ganun ka-visible since puro electric ang binebenta eh.  baka may pumasok sa budget nya dun.

i suggest he extend his budget to 10k.  2k lang naman ang add nya eh.  kasi for 10k, he might get a Dame acoustic from Everymusic and also an Applause.  :-)
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Offline in_the_tent

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #636 on: January 12, 2008, 11:31:12 PM »
pwede po siguro hanggang mga 10t. wala lang stock ng dame eh.:)
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Offline in_the_tent

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #637 on: January 12, 2008, 11:35:55 PM »
bakit di po kayo tumuloy sa RV5 for your acoustic?
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Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #638 on: January 13, 2008, 12:29:16 AM »
bakit di po kayo tumuloy sa RV5 for your acoustic?

i was convinced otherwise by farseer.  since the essence of the acoustic tone is in its natural sound, mas maganda kung walang effects.  as in from guitar - DI box (pwede nga minsan wala to eh..) - mixer.  you can get a reverb naman sa mixer or sa acoustic amp eh.  so much better investment ang acoustic amp or mixer kesa sa effects.  :-)

tska mahal ang RV5 sa yupangco...may binebenta dito na RV5 dati si Poundcake ata.  maganda din ang tunog ng RV5 pero yun nga, mejo unnatural na yung tunog for acoustic.

plano mo ba magbuo ng effects for acoustic?
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Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #639 on: January 13, 2008, 01:16:56 AM »
pwede po siguro hanggang mga 10t. wala lang stock ng dame eh.:)

i suggest hintayin mo to.  kasi Dame is the only solid-topped acoustic electric that is within your budget.  malaking bagay ang solid top because generally it will sound better than the laminated ones.  masusulit ang 10k pag Dame ang nakuha.

however, this is all just theoretical bro ha?  i haven't really handled a Dame acoustic yet.  ang basis ko lang dito is purely sa specs nya.  :-)
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Offline in_the_tent

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #640 on: January 14, 2008, 10:14:39 PM »
i was convinced otherwise by farseer.  since the essence of the acoustic tone is in its natural sound, mas maganda kung walang effects.  as in from guitar - DI box (pwede nga minsan wala to eh..) - mixer.  you can get a reverb naman sa mixer or sa acoustic amp eh.  so much better investment ang acoustic amp or mixer kesa sa effects.  :-)

tska mahal ang RV5 sa yupangco...may binebenta dito na RV5 dati si Poundcake ata.  maganda din ang tunog ng RV5 pero yun nga, mejo unnatural na yung tunog for acoustic.

plano mo ba magbuo ng effects for acoustic?
So di nyo type ang acoustic na me reverb o ayaw nyo ng pedal sa signal? problem with the reverb of the sound system is di lumalabas sa monitor. di pwede sa mixer namin mapalabas sa monitor. i desire to have a tuner-reverb-di (maybe an eq if needed). :)
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Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #641 on: January 14, 2008, 10:33:05 PM »
So di nyo type ang acoustic na me reverb o ayaw nyo ng pedal sa signal? problem with the reverb of the sound system is di lumalabas sa monitor. di pwede sa mixer namin mapalabas sa monitor. i desire to have a tuner-reverb-di (maybe an eq if needed). :)

maraming factors kung bakit hindi lumalabas ang reverb sa monitor.  pwedeng may hindi ka na-tweak sa mixer.  pwedeng mas maganda ang quality ng outside speakers mo kesa sa monitors, kaya hindi sila pareho ng tunog.  or pwedeng may sira lang sa monitor kaya walang reverb.  :-)

in my experience kasi, may reverb talaga na lumalabas sa monitors.  :-)

feeling ko ok na ang DI lang, para hindi na masyadong magastos.  hehehe!  mahal kasi ang rv5 eh.  may EQ naman ang mixer and preamp mo kaya hindi na siguro kailangan ng EQ.  :-)
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Offline in_the_tent

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #642 on: January 15, 2008, 12:29:52 PM »
wala po talagang routing sa effects sa monitor mix namin. un pi ang design ng mixer.
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Offline GGBR

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #643 on: January 15, 2008, 03:08:55 PM »
cge bro i-try mo ulit tapos lagay mo dito yung naging effect.  :-)

bro, diba Fender Passport gamit mo?  eh kahit hindi XLR ang gamitin mo to connect, maganda parin tunog mo pag yun ang gamit mo.  i've tried connecting to a Passport using PL lang and malinis parin.  mixers are usually better than acoustic amps if you want the natural acoustic tone to come out from your guitar.  :-) 

if u want to try out a DI box, try also Samson (not really sure about the brand...basta sounds like this. hehehe!) na available sa audiophile.  around 2k+ lang ang price and maganda pa tignan.  :-)

MIXERS ACCEPT TWO INPUT SOURCES "LINE" (WHERE U USE A 1/4" MALE JACK...SUCH AS YOUR GUITAR CABLE) & "BALANCED INPUT" (WHERE U USE THE XLR ALSO KNOW AS CANON OR MIC CONNECTORS) EACH ACCEPT A DIFFERENT LEVEL OF "Z"- IMPEDANCE (ASK THE ELECTRONIC GUYS HOW THIS AFFECT SIGNAL TRANSMISSION INTO AN AMP OR MIXER VS RESISTANCE --WHICH IS FOR OUTPUT TO SPEAKERS). A DI BOX ACTS AS A PREAMP WHICH CONVERTS THE "Z" LEVEL SO AS TO MATCH WITH YOUR CORRESPONDING INPUT Z-LEVEL TO EITHER A "LINE" (TO AN AMP) OR "XLR" (MIXER) INPUT. HERE'S A RATHER SHORT EXPLANATION FROM A SITE ---

A direct box can help "bridge the distance gap." A direct box converts signals from high impedance (high-Z) to low impedance (low-Z), and vice versa. Once a high-Z signal is converted to low, it can then travel great distances without losing quality. (They're used for basses on stage because an onstage direct box can provide the house a bass's direct feed via the low-Z output, running a great distance back to the soundboard, while also routing a short-path high-Z cable out to the amp. Since a bass amp doesn't color the sound of a bass the way a guitar amp does a guitar, and because the house's big woofers are well-suited to reproducing a bass's frequencies, the direct box works well here.)
So we can use a low-Z signal to transport our signal. But once we plug into a direct box and covert to low-Z for our journey, what do we do on the other end when we meet up with the amp? How do we get our signal back to the high-Z state that the guitar originally produced, and that the amp's input impedance is looking for? The answer is to bring on another direct box and "flip it around"!
 
Fig. 1: Two direct boxes can help you cover long distances if your guitar and amp are separated. The image in the foreground is a schematic showing the connections.
Here's how it works. The guitarist plugs a cable from the guitar into the first direct box. Then the low-Z (three-pin) out is connected via a mic cable of whatever length (say 40 feet) is necessary to a second direct box. Because the signal has been converted to low impedance, it can travel a long distance without suffering degradation. The signal meets up and connects with a second direct box's low-Z input. (The second box is placed right near the amp.) Then the high-Z, 1/4" output is used — along with a normal patch cord — to connect the second direct box to the amp, so that the amp's input gets the high-Z signal it's looking for. Figure 1 shows the direct-box schematic in the foreground with a scale-looking illustration of how the setup looks in the recording studio. Many studios have "tie lines" or wired jack plates on the walls that can get you into and out of the room you're in, but if you're at home, two direct boxes will do the trick. And when you're not using them for recording, direct boxes make great door stops.

Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #644 on: January 15, 2008, 09:39:09 PM »
welcome back sir GGBR!  it's been a while since your last post here, and as always, very informative.  :-)

i've never thought of using two DI boxes before.  maybe because i only gig in small acoustic bars where distance wouldn't be an issue.  :-)
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Offline GGBR

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #645 on: January 15, 2008, 11:21:37 PM »
welcome back sir GGBR!  it's been a while since your last post here, and as always, very informative.  :-)


WELL, LEARNING FROM ACTUAL DAY TO DAY, SHOW, GIGS, ETC...EVENTUALLY IMBEDS INTO YOUR SYSTEM TECHNICALS WHICH YOU WOULD ACTUALLY WANT TO LIVE WITHOUT...BUT REALITY CALLS FOR SOME AWARENESS ON IT IF YOUR "WORK" DEPEND ON THEM.....HENCE....LOW "Z"s - HI "Z"s INPUTS, CANON, XLR, LINE-LEVEL, ETC...SPLIT SIGNAL ETC ETC...

i've never thought of using two DI boxes before.  JUST A CONVERSION OF HI TO LOW...LOW TO HI.... ASK THE ELETRONIC TECHS FOR A GRAPHIC EXPLNTN maybe because i only gig in small acoustic bars where distance wouldn't be an issue.  :-) YOU WOULD ALWAYS NEED A DI IF YOU WERE TO PLUG DIRECT TO A MIXER...OTHERWISE THE SOUND WOULD READILY DISTORT OR NOT BE ACCURATE BECAUSE YOU WOULD HAVE TO SET YOUR GUITAR VOLUME WAY DOWN....THEREFORE CAUSING A "SAKAL" OR "DI BUKAS" (NOT OPEN) SOUND... OR WILL NOT MAKE YOU HEAR THE BETTER TONES OF YOUR GUITAR. UNLESS YOU USE AN ACOUSTIC AMP WHICH WOULD EITHER HAVE A "DI OR LINE OUT" TO THE MIXER...I.E. LIKE THE AER

Offline GGBR

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #646 on: January 15, 2008, 11:25:59 PM »
welcome back sir GGBR!  it's been a while since your last post here, and as always, very informative.  :-)

i've never thought of using two DI boxes before.  maybe because i only gig in small acoustic bars where distance wouldn't be an issue.  :-)

HEY...IT TOOK ME YEARS TO BE AWARE OF WHAT ALL THESE THINGAMAGIGS WERE... I ALSO JUST WANTED TO GET PLUGGED AND PLAY.... AS LONG AS THE SOUND SOUNDED GOOD...WHO'D CARE ABOUT WHERE YOU PLUGGED!! :-D :-D

Offline GGBR

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #647 on: January 15, 2008, 11:33:45 PM »

feeling ko ok na ang DI lang, para hindi na masyadong magastos.  hehehe!  mahal kasi ang rv5 eh.  may EQ naman ang mixer and preamp mo kaya hindi na siguro kailangan ng EQ.  :-)

MAXI, GADGETS ARE FROWNED UPON BY ACOUSTIC MUSICIANS  :-D , MENTION A BOSS BOX AND YOU MAY GET A SNICKER AT THE LEAST! MOST SIMPLY USE LIGHT REVERB (KONTING BASA/WET).... AN INEXPENSIVE LITTLE BOX WHICH HAS A VERY HIGH RATING IS THE ALESIS PICOVERB...ALESIS MAKES VERY GOOD REVERBS FOR THE PRO MARKET.. THE PICOVERB IS THE SIZE OF 2 STOMP BOXES.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 01:19:43 AM by GGBR »

Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #648 on: January 16, 2008, 07:03:46 AM »
I ALSO JUST WANTED TO GET PLUGGED AND PLAY.... AS LONG AS THE SOUND SOUNDED GOOD...WHO'D CARE ABOUT WHERE YOU PLUGGED!! :-D :-D

i think i'm still at this level..where in i just have to make do with whatever set-up is available in the venue where i play.   :-D
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Offline maxi_musikero

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Re: True Acoustic Tone
« Reply #649 on: January 16, 2008, 07:09:29 AM »
MAXI, GADGETS ARE FROWNED UPON BY ACOUSTIC MUSICIANS  :-D , MENTION A BOSS BOX AND YOU MAY GET A SNICKER AT THE LEAST! MOST SIMPLY USE LIGHT REVERB (KONTING BASA/WET).

@in_the_tent,

this is what i'm saying.  acoustic musicians don't use gadgets to enhance/improve their tone.  they rely mostly on their guitar's natural tone for their sound.  so instead of investing in gadgets like stomp boxes, they will more likely get a good sounding guitar.  :-)

@GGBR,

i learned a lot from your previous posts in this thread.  i think you already mentioned this thing about acoustic musicians' thoughts on having gadgets.  :-)
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