To Swing, or Not to Swing..?

[Bammbamm]

Oo, andun na ko, wan, triplet, tu triplet, tri...ding-ding da-ding, ding da-ding ding.....pero, gaano ba kahalaga ang swing feel sa jazz? Mawawala ba ang essence ng jazz pag walang swung 8ths? Pano mag eevolve ang jazz kung.....?
 

[william251082]

'it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing' - duke ellington

[Jim Ayson]

Oo, andun na ko, wan, triplet, tu triplet, tri...ding-ding da-ding, ding da-ding ding.....pero, gaano ba kahalaga ang swing feel sa jazz? Mawawala ba ang essence ng jazz pag walang swung 8ths? Pano mag eevolve ang jazz kung.....?
 

Yes Duke Elligton got it right. Whether you're playing straightahead swing tempo or funk, you gotta play with that triplet feel. Jazz has evolved for over a hundred years you still must swing! As a jazz drummer it's your job to goose the soloists on to a higher improvisational plane and they will get there higher if you swing.

The opposite of a swing feel is a locked in robotic 4/4th - at that feel you'll end up sounding like the Ramones.

[frogfunk]

The opposite of a swing feel is a locked in robotic 4/4th - at that feel you'll end up sounding like the Ramones.

I'm sorry but The Ramones doesn't sound like a robot to me. If you bop your head to a punk song the song can't be as stale as a robot. IMO you have a swing feel when you don't accent on the first beat. Funk is a different playing style so it can't swing but if we are to use the word "swing" on the context of The Duke's song then IMO it may mean that a song must "affect" people eg. people head banging to a metal song.

[Bammbamm]

Uhmm....as a drummer, how do I emphasize the swing feel without the ding-ding-dading (jazz ride pattern) on the ride cymbal?
Drummer Steve Smith says John Bonham had a very strong swing feel but I cant seem to relate Black dog with Satin Doll      

Do I have to constantly think of triplets for spacings & subdivisions?

'sensya na po...wanna-be kasi eh.

[william251082]

Uhmm....as a drummer, how do I emphasize the swing feel without the ding-ding-dading (jazz ride pattern) on the ride cymbal?
Drummer Steve Smith says John Bonham had a very strong swing feel but I cant seem to relate Black dog with Satin Doll      

Do I have to constantly think of triplets for spacings & subdivisions?

'sensya na po...wanna-be kasi eh.

listen to your jazz heroes, imitate them. there's something about what they're doing that no teacher can ever explain to u. listen more and well, imitate, practice

[Jim Ayson]

I think frogfunk is placing emphasis on swing as a vibe while I was reacting to the original posting as swing as a rhythmic pattern. 

Swing time always seemed to me as placing a swing note in the beginning of a bunch straight eighth notes. Or dropping a swing note in from time to time, so it sounds like alternating "long" and "short" notes to achieve that "triplet feel."  That's the propulsive groove that makes Jazz swing.

Some web references:
Why Jazz Swings: http://www.edwardwillett.com/Arts%20Columns/swing.htm
Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_time

Now the thing is one might think that swing feel is limited to "swing" or "bebop" but I find that is also the heart of other black musical styles like funk, soul, hiphop, etc.

Try to play the swing pattern on the hihat then play a hiphop pattern on the kick and snare. That should still swing.

Some funk musical references:
Harvey Mason playing "Chameleon" with Herbie Hancock on "Headhunters"
Mike Clark on "Actual Proof" with the Headhunters on "Thrust".

That is a marked difference from playing straight eights all the way. The Ramones reference came about because the drum pattern that came to my mind was "I Wanna Be Sedated." All straight eight cymbal patterns and a clubfooted dug-pak-dug-dug-pak kick-snare pattern.

This doesn't mean to say that rock can't swing - a lot of LedZep and Doors and Hendrix swings
But not all rock swings.

As a local example, on Sandwich's last album, "Sugod" doesn't swing, but "DVDX" does

However I can't think of any example of jazz that doesn't swing.

[Jim Ayson]

Uhmm....as a drummer, how do I emphasize the swing feel without the ding-ding-dading (jazz ride pattern) on the ride cymbal?
Drummer Steve Smith says John Bonham had a very strong swing feel but I cant seem to relate Black dog with Satin Doll      

Do I have to constantly think of triplets for spacings & subdivisions?

'sensya na po...wanna-be kasi eh.

It doesn't always have to be ding-ding-dading, it can be dingdingdingdingdingdingding-dading. The "triplet feel" can be dropped in on a regular patern or dropped like bombs here and there.

You can also use the kick drum to drop the bombs. In modern swing or bop you don't play a four-on-the-floor pattern you use the kick drum sparingly, for accents. That accent can be the "bomb" or swing note.

The snare is also used for punctuation in bop.

"dropping bombs" was a term used to describe Kenny Clarke, one of the early bop drummers.

[aya_yuson]

Uhmm....as a drummer, how do I emphasize the swing feel without the ding-ding-dading (jazz ride pattern) on the ride cymbal?
Drummer Steve Smith says John Bonham had a very strong swing feel but I cant seem to relate Black dog with Satin Doll      

Do I have to constantly think of triplets for spacings & subdivisions?

'sensya na po...wanna-be kasi eh.

It doesn't always have to be ding-ding-dading, it can be dingdingdingdingdingdingding-dading. The "triplet feel" can be dropped in on a regular patern or dropped like bombs here and there.

You can also use the kick drum to drop the bombs. In modern swing or bop you don't play a four-on-the-floor pattern you use the kick drum sparingly, for accents. That accent can be the "bomb" or swing note.

The snare is also used for punctuation in bop.

"dropping bombs" was a term used to describe Kenny Clarke, one of the early bop drummers.

Si George W. Bush at si Osama Bin Laden, mahilig din sa dropping bombs.

 

[orion]

Magandang umaga po sa inyong lahat,.
Meron katanungan  lang po ako,.suwing ba din po yung ginagawa nila earl klugh at joe pass sa gitara? matagal na po ako nakikinig dati ng music nila nagustuhan ko yung parang piano ang paglaro sa gitara kahit akustik lang ,.gusto ko po yung style ng paglalaro nila,.at  pag me tym po ako mag gitara., wala po kc d2 sa aming lugar na nagtutro ng musik lalo na sa jas.,,kaya kapa kapa lang po ako  ( play/pause ) pinagtsatsagaan ko nlang basta makuha yung song na gusto ko., sa mp3 player/ pc .,.,di po  kc ako marunong bumasa ng note lumulukso nalang ang dugo ko pag me nakukuha akong babasahing tab,.pagwala kapa ulit pero yung mga chords na nadidinig ko sa kanila minsan na ka-catch ko naman,.,kaya lang hirapan pa din po ako,.  ,. ano po ang dapat kong gawin .,.,me pag asa pa kaya ako matuto nung swing  gusto ko lang po  palawakin pa sana  ang konting kaalaman sa musiko lalo na sa dyas.
           
                                                                                                             Yours Truly,
                                                                                                                     Orion

[jazhombie]

Magandang umaga po sa inyong lahat,.
Meron katanungan  lang po ako,.suwing ba din po yung ginagawa nila earl klugh at joe pass sa gitara? matagal na po ako nakikinig dati ng music nila nagustuhan ko yung parang piano ang paglaro sa gitara kahit akustik lang ,.gusto ko po yung style ng paglalaro nila,.at  pag me tym po ako mag gitara., wala po kc d2 sa aming lugar na nagtutro ng musik lalo na sa jas.,,kaya kapa kapa lang po ako  ( play/pause ) pinagtsatsagaan ko nlang basta makuha yung song na gusto ko., sa mp3 player/ pc .,.,di po  kc ako marunong bumasa ng note lumulukso nalang ang dugo ko pag me nakukuha akong babasahing tab,.pagwala kapa ulit pero yung mga chords na nadidinig ko sa kanila minsan na ka-catch ko naman,.,kaya lang hirapan pa din po ako,.  ,. ano po ang dapat kong gawin .,.,me pag asa pa kaya ako matuto nung swing  gusto ko lang po  palawakin pa sana  ang konting kaalaman sa musiko lalo na sa dyas.
           
                                                                                                             Yours Truly,
                                                                                                                     Orion

lesson ka kay boss aya...para swak!

[william251082]

dyas

[jazhombie]

dyas

good day amigo!

[orion]

oo nga eh,.si sir aya pala yung guitarist nung widouji!!!!!!!!!???,.,.wow,.gusto ko yung 22gtug nila,.parang nakita ko dati noon nung nag net search ako sa local jazz,.,wow Hi sir sory po
.oo nga ,. kung isang dura lang sana ang layo ko dyan., mangungulet ako magpaturo kay sir , layo kona kc eh

[william251082]

dyas

good day amigo!

kmsta pre! my nkjam ako percussionist n babae pre, hahaha sexy n lupet p 2mugtog, sasama nga ko s kanila ng mga friends nya next week eh, maghhitchhike kmi papunta italy hahahah marami 2gtugan don. cge email n lng kta, mrami kong mga questions syo maestro;-)

[william251082]

oo nga eh,.si sir aya pala yung guitarist nung widouji!!!!!!!!!???,.,.wow,.gusto ko yung 22gtug nila,.parang nakita ko dati noon nung nag net search ako sa local jazz,.,wow Hi sir sory po
.oo nga ,. kung isang dura lang sana ang layo ko dyan., mangungulet ako magpaturo kay sir , layo kona kc eh

ayaw mo paturo ky jason pre? i only know 2 jazz greats in d philippines, lester & jason

check out mo 'tong ginawa kong thread
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,53727.0.html
probably d most important part of learning jazz is 'playing together', not just practicing alone in your room.

[Bammbamm]

Uhmm....as a drummer, how do I emphasize the swing feel without the ding-ding-dading (jazz ride pattern) on the ride cymbal?
Drummer Steve Smith says John Bonham had a very strong swing feel but I cant seem to relate Black dog with Satin Doll      

Do I have to constantly think of triplets for spacings & subdivisions?

'sensya na po...wanna-be kasi eh.

It doesn't always have to be ding-ding-dading, it can be dingdingdingdingdingdingding-dading. The "triplet feel" can be dropped in on a regular patern or dropped like bombs here and there.

You can also use the kick drum to drop the bombs. In modern swing or bop you don't play a four-on-the-floor pattern you use the kick drum sparingly, for accents. That accent can be the "bomb" or swing note.

The snare is also used for punctuation in bop.

"dropping bombs" was a term used to describe Kenny Clarke, one of the early bop drummers.

Thank you, sir. Medyo na naiintindihan ko na.

 So, hindi lang basta tatata- tatata yung swing, bale pwede rin yung huh-pa-uhm- pa-uh-hum- papa-uh-hum- huh-pa-uh-hop -Bop!

Thanks dun sa mga nagreply





na may katuturan.