TALK @ PhilMusic.com - The Online Home of the Pinoy Musician
The Musician Forums => Music Technology & Pro Audio => Topic started by: rastah on July 22, 2007, 06:23:30 PM
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ano b ma susudgest nyo balak ko ksi mag p sound proof ng room.. na gagalit kse ung kapit bahay pag nag ddrums ako hehehe.... :?
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ano b ma susudgest nyo balak ko ksi mag p sound proof ng room.. na gagalit kse ung kapit bahay pag nag ddrums ako hehehe.... :?
You need around P20,000-30,000 worth of materials to soundproof your room depending on the size and height of the ceiling. Don't forget the laborers 350-400/day.
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thats way to expensive is their a cheap way to sound prof a room just for personal use... just to minimize the sound or wat not..
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bilan mo ng earmuffs yung mga kapitbahay :-D
seriously
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thats way to expensive is their a cheap way to sound prof a room just for personal use... just to minimize the sound or wat not..
Sound proofing is NOT cheap. Otherwise the mystic egg-carton on the ceiling + carpets on the walls thing.
Just as a rule of thumb -
AIRTIGHT = SOUNDPROOF
SOUNDPROOFING = ROOM WITHIN A ROOM.
Now once you have your room soundproofed, next thing is how to treat the sounds bouncing all over the place, which doesnt sound so good.,
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not to threadjack, pero how bout the materials that are used in sound proofing, san kaya nakakabili? ung parang foam na egg carton ung itchura.. :)
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yah cuz im planing to use styro and egg trays for the ceiling you think that will do the job
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wag na ung egg cartons.. meron ung foam eh teka hanap ako pics. di ko lam tawag dun.
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ah i saw one of those already and its expesive its like 1k plus just for a size on a single bed
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san mo nakita bro? bili sana ako.
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it looks like a foam with spikes on it in sm department stores
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it's cheaper if you get them directly from uratex. they're not very effective sound absorbers though. you're still stuck with a lot of midrange and low frequencies. far from ideal. you might be wasting your money in the end. your neighbors are still going to hear the low frequencies. and they're the hardest to manage.
skunkyfunk is right -- sound proofing is not cheap.
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Punta po kayo dito.
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,31588.0.html
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or try mo mag drums 10-12pm tsaka 4-6pm, pwede naman mag ingay ng ganung oras. or yung foam na makapal ng bed ilagay mo sa tapat ng drums, absorb niya karamihan ng sound. gamit ka din ng 7a na stick para mas mahina yung tunog. hth
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thats way to expensive is their a cheap way to sound prof a room just for personal use... just to minimize the sound or wat not..
Sir, there is no such thing as soundproofing for "personal" use and "commercial" use. The very same principles of soundproofing for commercial purposes are the same as that of personal purposes, so if you really want to consider soundproofing, make it a major investment. I would say however, that there are different levels of attenuation needed for soundproofing - either for music or industrial noise.
Anyway, good luck with the foam thing. Rest-assured you'll be spending much as well, but the results would be disappointing. I talked to the owner of Blue Room Rehearsal studios in UP Village and I was surprised at how much he spent for the blue convoluted foam you're talking about. He also had to make sure he has a fire extinguisher as foam and electricity do not mix well. And one last thing, the room sounds very dead... almost anechoic.
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im ok with that... as long as i can minimize the sound so i can practice w/o really annoying the others
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that's the thing. you'll only be decreasing the volume of the high frequencies with the foams. well, at least the neighbors won't have any trouble as long as you only play your cymbals.
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Foam and egg cartons are not for "sound proofing". They're for acoustic treatment.
To achieve what you want, just find a way to seal the room so that no noise gets out. Sound can get out through your windows, door, and ceiling (if it's not concrete). Tightly-glued thick plywood sandwiches patched onto these is a cheap option, although it will not entirely keep sound from bleeding out. Also consider getting a heavier door (or putting another door on top of your existing door).
(BTW, isn't the correct term "sound-isolation", meaning to keep the sound from getting out? "Sound proof" means that a thing is impervious to sound, that sound from the outside can't get in.)
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a bit OT, but this might help...
try playing softer. it will tighten your technique. also, you might wanna use mesh heads for your drums and mutes for your cymbals when you practice. then, you'll never have to worry about bothering your neighbors.
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First off, TREAT AIR LIKE WATER. They can come out in the littlest of gaps and holes. Do you know that small gaps from windows, doors and CRACKS can dramatically lessen the sound isolation by 40dB!
That is why the mental hospitals have very tightly-sealed bartolinas (not that I have gone there, achehehhehe).
Rastah, not that we're dissing your known methods for pseudo-soundproofing... IT'S ALL MYTH. The foam you see in studios are acoustic foam and they are not meant to soundproof, but to treat the acoustics. We just want to steer you in the right direction and take away all these fallacies about soundproofing in a lot of people's minds.
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I too have an irate neighbor. The "room within a room" solution is quite expensive, so I'm toying with the idea of just doubling the wall that separates our apartments. Dunno yet if that will help even a bit. And even if it will, it has to pass approval of the kumander since it will decrease our floor area. And the new wall must look nice... di pwede blue foam like Blue Room ang appearance... :|
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Easy on the foam. Fire hazard unless you put a retardant on it. You would not like your whole system (recording, instruments, even your house) on flames, do you? Foam used as bedding are not very good acoustic absorbers. Acoustic foam (a little expensive, not available here) are the ones to use. But then again you have to fire retard them. Egg trays are never acoustic materials. Your understanding of the present day egg tray and the ones used long ago are totally different. Egg trays do not have appreciable absorptive coefficient usable for acoustic purposes.
To sound proof, you need mass. Or series of constructed panel materials arranged as a sandwich. To tame the frequency of the room, you need absorption, diffusion and reflection.
To save money, make sure you get in touch with somebody who understands acoustics. There are several acoustic consultants around. It will save you a lot of trouble.
FWIW
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what implaning to do is like doubling the wall the original one plus the one that im going to add its like a sandwich it consists of of a sheet of plywood+ 1inch thick styrofoam inside +sheet of ply wood again what do you think guys :?
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I would say styrofoam is not a very acoustic material. You are better off with rock wool or glass fiber. If you wanna do that, use metal studs placed about 4 inches away from your present wall, set them at 16" o. c. for the vertical, 4 feet apart for the horizontal. Put isolation blankets in between the studs, put double gypsum board 1/2" thick, seal all joints with elastomeric or non hardening putty. Make a tight seal. But that's only for one wall. What about the other walls? Remember, sound flanks - it turns in corners. No joke doing it.
FWIW
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technical stuffs gnawrly.. ill try to understand that one :-D
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kapag nagsasounproof ba talagang magagalaw yung room (drill etc) paano kung ayaw ng landlord na pabutas or something yung place nya, anong ginagawa nyo? lumipat? hehe.:)
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In reality, there is no really such thing as totally sound proofed. To do that is so expensive and extensive use of materials. You can only abate the sound to a certain extent. Now regarding the problem of the landlord not wanting any new structures in his unit, that one you cannot do anything but follow his desires. Or move to another unit.
FWIW
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where can i get a rockwool here and how much
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where can i get a rockwool here and how much
Go to MC home depot along ortigas ave. near Meralco and go to Han Gang Foam. There are stores beside them that sell rockwool and fiberglass as well.
The density of rockwool or fiberglass to be used is debatable. Some say 60kg rockwool is better. Some say 16kg fiberglass is better. Cheaper pa.
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where can i get a rockwool here and how much
Go to MC home depot along ortigas ave. near Meralco and go to Han Gang Foam. There are stores beside them that sell rockwool and fiberglass as well.
Good find there, skunkyfunk!
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where can i get a rockwool here and how much
The density of rockwool or fiberglass to be used is debatable. Some say 60kg rockwool is better. Some say 16kg fiberglass is better. Cheaper pa.
If for interior purposes, i. e., placed inside walls to remove resonances, a 16 kgm type is okay. For outside (as in absorbers), the higher density is better. Actually, the rule of thumb is, the higher the density the better; the thicker the lower low frequency absorption. But more expensive.
Same with glass fiber or glass wool.
FWIW
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To sound proof, you need mass. Or series of constructed panel materials arranged as a sandwich.
tanong ko lang, ito ho bang sandwich materials na ito ay pwedeng ilipat sakaling lumipat ng lugar ang isang studio? paano po ba kinakabit sa lugar ito(sa sahig at sa ceiling)?
There are several acoustic consultants around. It will save you a lot of trouble.
sirs, can you post the consultants' names/companies and their numbers here? thanks po.:)
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I'm thinking of getting those portable sound proofing enclosures. I heard even Rubbermaid has one.
I'm not sure if it would work though. I hope some genius will invent one of these (cheaply).
Here is what I was originally looking at: Stone-Booth in a Bag (of course, it won't really help with your original query for drums)
In action (http://www.stonevoiceovers.com/Steve%20Stone%20-%20Voice%20Actor%3A%20StoneBooth%20In%20A%20Bag%202.html)
Manufacturer's site (https://www.gkacoustics.com/store.asp?area=FullProduct&productid=150&categoryid=8)
(Modified to include links)
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I'm thinking of getting those portable sound proofing enclosures. I heard even Rubbermaid has one.
I'm not sure if it would work though. I hope some genius will invent one of these (cheaply).
:-D You could also try Get Smart's legendary Cones of Silence. :lol:
(http://www.hojohnlee.com/weblog/wp-content/cone-of-silence.jpg)
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The main purpose of this portable booth is to remove room or background noise from getting into the recording. If we are talking of just ambient noise, it is effective. But once there is really loud intermittent noise, I think this booth will not be able to stop it. It is expensive! For a small "veil," it costs a lot. Also, I don't think it is capable of stopping low or rumble frequencies.
I'll give it it a second look.
Regards,
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i met a guy whose a graduate of sound engineering and is well known in designing soundproofing stuffs but i forgot his name. you can reach him at EARTS Centre in Ayala.
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@mikep:
My main problem is the noise from the highway. I live around 50 meters from C5, & its taking a toll on our recording. Plus the sounds from the aircon. I wonder if something like this would suffice?
Yeah, pretty pricey. Argh.
@KitC:
Mukang mas mahal pa ata yang Cones of Silence eh! ;)
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Chette,
If you ever watched Get Smart, you would have found out that the cones were too effective. :lol: :lol: (Damn, I'm old...) :-D
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As MikeP has said, sound isolation is all about density. It should not be confused with sound absorption, which is another matter altogether. You would need an enormous quantity of rockwool or rigid fiberglass to provide isolation from traffic noise, probably several feet thick. And even then it wouldn't do well at low frequencies, which tend to be conducted through building materials such as steel and wood.
One of the cheapest and readily available isolation materials also happens to be one of the best: filled cement hollow block. Eight inches of hollow block will provide between 40 and 60db isolation, depending on the frequency. Perhaps it's possible to construct a wall between you and the highway?
The thing to remember about walls as sound barriers is that they don't actually block sound, they create a sound shadow. The horizontal extent of the effective shadow will be about equivalent to the wall's height, so the wall should be constructed close to your existing wall, rather than out by the road.
The one thing concrete can't shield you from is very low frequencies, which unfortunately is a component of traffic noise, whenever a large truck passes by. Those will be conducted right through the ground and your floor, so the cure there is isolating yourself from the floor. A false floor on rubber spacers will work, but that's expensive. You can probably do a lot simply by constructing risers to set your microphone stands upon, and decouple the risers from the floor with rubber.
You might still need to filter out those low frequency rumbles, which is usually not a problem for vocals, since they can usually roll off below 120-160Hz with no loss of quality.
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@mikep:
My main problem is the noise from the highway. I live around 50 meters from C5, & its taking a toll on our recording. Plus the sounds from the aircon. I wonder if something like this would suffice?
For that kind of noise, you need to have a room within a room construction technique (expensive). One thing that can help is for you to roll off the low frequency of your mics, boost a little bit of mid and high frequencies for intelligibility purposes, and it can clear your recording a bit (this is mostly for speech). As for the air con, you need a quieter air con - maybe a split type. Select a a brand that would have the lowest noise. National is known to be quiet. Again, when recording roll off the low frequencies.
FWIW
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For that kind of noise, you need to have a room within a room construction technique (expensive). One thing that can help is for you to roll off the low frequency of your mics, boost a little bit of mid and high frequencies for intelligibility purposes, and it can clear your recording a bit (this is mostly for speech). As for the air con, you need a quieter air con - maybe a split type. Select a a brand that would have the lowest noise. National is known to be quiet. Again, when recording roll off the low frequencies.
FWIW
+1
I have to agree with the room within a room approach. liliit lang nga yung space ng room per assured na hindi maiistorbo yung kapit bahay. expensive din kasi keilangan mo ng raised flooring at fair amount of space between walls. importante din na air tight yung room kasi sound we hear travels as vibrations/pressure in the air. ang problem lang dito yung airconditioning. kung airtight yung kwarto mo pero air could pass through the vents ng aircon, bale wala din yung effort ng sound proofing mo. mas recommended yun split system type na airconditioning sa ganiong setup.
then you can use acoustic foam to reduce sound reflection sa loob ng kwarto
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Bro, suggestion ko. Mag-pa-rent ka na. Kasi once you have soundproofed your room major investment iyon. Eh ang bawi lang noon magpaband rehersal ka na diyan. Kasi walang choice soundproofing is expensive. Eh, once sound proofed na ang room mo, puwede nang magpraktis dyan mga banda... Just a suggestion for ROI. :)
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yep it's a good investment pero mahirap din lalo na hindi mo kilala yung mga bandang gagamit ng equipment mo. minsan kasi may mga bands na malakas magtrip at magsira ng gamit.
nakapasok na rin ako sa home studio ni zach lucero of imago. really impressive yung setup niya. ang kapal ng pintuan (i think it's a foot thick) at room within a room din ata yung ganamit nyang approach.