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Author Topic: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church  (Read 2934 times)

Offline oj888

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24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« on: August 21, 2012, 01:07:29 PM »
Hi, this is my first post so it's going to be both a short introduction and a question.

I'm a church A/V technician for more than two decades and also served as the drummer for around 18 years until I relinquished my latter position last year in favor for a much younger musician. This also gave me a chance to focus on my first love: Pro Audio. I'm still in charge of the overall systems from projection, lighting, communications, video and audio systems.

So, with that out of the way, on to my inquiry.

Right now, we're in the middle of revamping the whole A/V system, starting at the mixing console. I'm looking for a good 24-channel desk that will have the following traits, in order of priority:

1. Reliable and consistent - Needless to say, all mechanical stuff; the knobs, buttons, faders, etc., should last for years. By extension, the electronics should equally be reliable and not "drift" as the console warms up
2. Performance - It should be silent and have lots of headroom. This desk will be primarily for live use so it should be able to perform equally well whether it's sermon time or the band is playing at full swing
3. Best bang for the buck - This goes without saying. We can't afford a P1M digital desk so some compromises have to be made. Our starting budget is P100k but I can probably ask for a bit more if it is well justified

I've narrowed down my choices to the following models for FOH use: (Do note that I've already read up as much as I can about these equipment and feature and spec-wise, they all passed our requirements)

1. Soundcraft lx7ii - My first choice, given the budget that we have. With the extra change, I can buy 2 or 3 brand new Shure Beta 58s to replace some of our aging BG 1.0 and 2.0
2. Soundcraft GB2 - A little over-budget, but depending on how much more it can offer compared to the lx7ii, I might consider this.
3. Mackie Onyx 24.4 - Given that I have had no experience with Mackie consoles and the fact that it's also over-budget, this is a far third for me. But then again, if it rates better than the Souncraft offerings, I might consider it

As for the monitor mixer, I'm looking into the following:
4. Soundcraft MPMi - Due to the space constraint up on stage, we need a console that is compact as possible without sacrificing reliability

If anybody has first-hand experience or information, either good or bad, please share them. For a small church, this is already considered a huge investment, considering that this is just phase 1. Succeeding phases includes replacing/purchasing other outboard gear like compressor/limiters, speaker management systems, wireless mics, new patch cables, direct boxes, etc. But that will warrant its own thread when the time comes.

Thanks a lot in advance. :)

Offline king_james

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2012, 01:59:00 PM »
Soundcraft   :-) :-)

Offline jeo

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2012, 08:06:16 PM »
get the lx7ii
>Use your ears, dont worry about the hype!>"Not everything that counts can be measured and not everything you can measure counts">TECHNIQUE is in the FINGERS & TONE is more in the GEAR>HIYAW, if you didnt get it, its your problem not mine>killed ur killer

Offline sikyo

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 01:26:22 AM »
Among your options LX7ii satisfies all your requirements, do note though that it has no built in effects (the 'biggest' Soundcraft analog console with effects is the MFXi 20). This also has 6 aux outs, 4 groups, 4 semi-PEQ bands, and LCR outs which the GB2 has not. Also on my wishlist  :) You may want to consider a model with more aux outs for your monitor mixer, that is, if the 6 auxes of the LX7ii still would not suffice. You'd go over budget with Presonus Studio Live (too bad, less 30% ito last week sa PALMM 2012  :)) and Behringer X32. Why not consider a digital console which would suffice as both FOH and monitor mixer at the same time? The price of the 2 analog boards combined may not be far from the price of any of the above digital boards, or even the Yamaha 01V. It will even cover most, if not all of the outboard gears on the 'succeeding phase' of your purchase, Sir. Baka pag pinagsama-sama mo ang cost nito mas malaki pa kesa sa 1 digital board. I'm not connected with any of the above products in any way, just trying to do a little cost accounting to help  :)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 01:52:02 AM by sikyo »
make sound matter
"Praise our God, all peoples, let the sound of His praise be heard..." - Psalm 66:8a (NIV)

Offline tjlimjoco

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 09:01:49 AM »
Kami sa Soundcraft lagi whether Lx7ii, Mfxi or Efx  :)


Offline oj888

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 11:04:26 PM »
Good stuff. So, for an analogue board, the lx7ii seems a winner, given our budget.

But just out of curiosity, how much would a 24ch Presonus StudioLive or the Yamaha 01Vxx set us back, used and/or brand new?

Thanks for the replies!

Offline sikyo

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 12:32:36 AM »
Good stuff. So, for an analogue board, the lx7ii seems a winner, given our budget.

But just out of curiosity, how much would a 24ch Presonus StudioLive or the Yamaha 01Vxx set us back, used and/or brand new?

Thanks for the replies!

Presonus Studio Live @24.4.2 was listed at PhP252K with a 30% discount last week at PALMM 2012, don't know if Modular Display will extend that. The latest Yamaha 01V is at PhP149,990.00 pero konti lang inputs nito pala  :-( Given your options and your budget, I don't see you losing, Sir, whether you'll go analog or digital  :)
make sound matter
"Praise our God, all peoples, let the sound of His praise be heard..." - Psalm 66:8a (NIV)

Offline oj888

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 10:48:46 AM »
Presonus Studio Live @24.4.2 was listed at PhP252K with a 30% discount last week at PALMM 2012, don't know if Modular Display will extend that. The latest Yamaha 01V is at PhP149,990.00 pero konti lang inputs nito pala  :-( Given your options and your budget, I don't see you losing, Sir, whether you'll go analog or digital  :)

Thanks Sikyo. TBH, I'm quite sold on the Presonus 24.4.2. I watched the video demos on Youtube and I think it's totally perfect for us.... if not for the fact that it costs 3x as much as the lx7ii. :D But then, I'd probably spend more with the lx7ii if I invest on outboard gear to cover at least half of the channels.

How's the reliability and support on these boards?

Offline sikyo

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2012, 09:32:43 PM »
Thanks Sikyo. TBH, I'm quite sold on the Presonus 24.4.2. I watched the video demos on Youtube and I think it's totally perfect for us.... if not for the fact that it costs 3x as much as the lx7ii. :D But then, I'd probably spend more with the lx7ii if I invest on outboard gear to cover at least half of the channels.

How's the reliability and support on these boards?

Among mga forumites dito Sir, good reviews ang mga nababasa ko as well as naririnig ko sa labas. I haven't heard anything against Modular's support kahit medyo bago pa rin ang product. I've no direct experience, though. Perhaps those who have experienced using or have auditioned the SL can chime in? Mga kasama, enlighten us, please  :)
make sound matter
"Praise our God, all peoples, let the sound of His praise be heard..." - Psalm 66:8a (NIV)

Offline niroh

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 11:11:38 AM »
Thanks Sikyo. TBH, I'm quite sold on the Presonus 24.4.2. I watched the video demos on Youtube and I think it's totally perfect for us.... if not for the fact that it costs 3x as much as the lx7ii. :D But then, I'd probably spend more with the lx7ii if I invest on outboard gear to cover at least half of the channels.

How's the reliability and support on these boards?

magandan po ang local support nila, if ever na magkaruon ng prob. agad agad po silang gumagawa ng action, napaka friendly ng staff

modular display ang alam ko distributor po dito sa PH

try to contact this person

Mark Anthony Yulo
09088724103

Offline oj888

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2012, 11:41:37 AM »
I'm currently in contact with Modular Display. Will keep you guys posted. :)

Offline N1X

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2012, 11:50:20 PM »
Soundcraft GB4 kung may Live4 sana or Live 8

group mute
individual phantom, ch invert, direct out, low cut
matrix
sub group 6 aux

Offline oj888

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 01:06:10 PM »
We're taking delivery of a brand new Presonus StudioLive 24.4.2 within the next couple of days. :)

10 Auxes + 2 FX (built-in)
Sweepable low-cut, phantom power and phase invert switches per channel
Dynamics (Gate, Compressor, Limiter) and Four-band full parametric EQ (aka. FAT channel) available on all input channels, aux outs, sub outs, main outs, etc.
Assignable 8-channel 31-band graphic EQ
Scene setting store and recall
Channel setting store and recall with presets
Ang dami pa..... except the kitchen sink!

We're getting rid of a rack of legacy outboard analog equipment because of this.

Pics to follow. Many thanks to Sikyo for the idea.

Offline sikyo

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 10:20:35 PM »
Congrats on your new gear! Hope to hear how it performs in a challenging live situation like a church. Malaki ang demographic, so mahirap i-please lahat  :) Anyway, you're better equipped now. God bless your endeavor.
make sound matter
"Praise our God, all peoples, let the sound of His praise be heard..." - Psalm 66:8a (NIV)

Offline niroh

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2012, 05:43:11 PM »
ayos yan bro. :-D im sure hindi kayo magsisi sa capabilities na kayang gawin ng presonus studiolive mixer, makakapag live recording na din kayo =))

Offline oj888

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2012, 08:44:33 PM »
Finally got time to take a few pics. :D Sorry, phonecam lang.

Here it is in action. 'Capture' is running on the laptop, recording the entire session (to be used for virtual soundcheck).



And these are the stuff it replaced:



Thanks also to Rod, Bone and Alvin over at Modular Display.

Offline niroh

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2012, 11:28:15 AM »
bro panu mo naconnect sa laptop mo yung studiolive??? kasi diba firewire connection yung need ng board?!? or may firewire input yung laptop mo. . .???

btw Praise God for God's faithfulness and Grace to your church :D

Offline oj888

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2012, 01:12:59 PM »
bro panu mo naconnect sa laptop mo yung studiolive??? kasi diba firewire connection yung need ng board?!? or may firewire input yung laptop mo. . .???

btw Praise God for God's faithfulness and Grace to your church :D

Yepp. May built-in Firewire yung laptop. :)

Also connected an iPad thru WiFi (using the Presonus SL Remote app) and wow! I can now change monitor/aux levels, dynamics and EQ remotely on-stage. This allows me to stand right next to where the musicians and singers are and modify the monitor settings to their taste while they do their thing. Better than just using the talkback mic. The same arrangement allows me to change the settings to the main speakers as I walk around the FOH.

It's a bundle of joy talaga. We've been truly blessed.

Next on the list, wired and wireless microphones, additional snake (kulang na yung returns), and hanging the main speakers for better acoustics.


Offline niroh

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2012, 03:53:17 PM »
good to hear that. . ., about sa speakers, mas maganda talaga ifly ang spekers. . . yung sub kahit hindi na ata ifly, pero try mo ilagay yung sub sa bawat kanto ng room (if ever na dalawa yung sub) pero kung isa, sa gitna mo sya ilagay bro. . . pero it depends padin sa sound and acoustics ng venue nyo. . . btw anu facebook mo??? pwede ba kitang iadd?!?  :-D  :-D

Offline niroh

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2012, 08:51:09 PM »
another question, anung laptop pala yang gamit mo???

Offline oj888

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2012, 02:55:17 PM »
^ We really plan to eventually hang the speakers maybe 15-20 ft off the ground. The laptop I use is a Dell Latitude E5510.

Offline jefisipbata

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Re: 24-ch mixing console suggestions for a small church
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2012, 09:50:15 AM »
ayun meron palang ganitong thread dito, may mapagtatanungan ako in case. this week na daw ide-deliver sa church yung studiolive 24 namin!