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Author Topic: Gigging with a small wattage amp.  (Read 4991 times)

Offline skrumian

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2017, 05:11:33 PM »
Depende sa amp.
18w H&K Tubemeister - both clean and dirt bitin sa volume. Kapag dirt+boost medyo okay na.

15w Orange Tiny Terror. Now this is monster. Kahit guitar volume down para sa clean malakas pa rin.

Good point sa "spread." Open back cab mas may perceived loudness kse may tunog galing sa likod at mas nagspread ang tunog. Kung closed back cab naman directional lang ang tunog kaya ang nakakarinig lang yun nasa harap ng speaker.

Sorry maski 100w na solid state amp kahit malakas ang volume ay may kulang pa rin at hirap magcut sa tunog ng banda.

Tsaka sabihan nyo drummer nyo na ayusin ang palo. Yun tama lang at hindi yun parang sisirain ang drums.  :-D
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Offline Queroberos

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2017, 05:13:17 PM »
I guess, basing it on your replies regarding sound mixing, eh matitinong prod napapasukan mo. To put it simply, eksenang "pro" ika nga.

My point is this, basing it also sa title ng thread, "Gigging with a small wattage amp". Pwede kung sa pwede, pero, it will depend sa venue. Kung maliit lang ang venue, pwede. Kung kalat at open, yung spread ng tunog eh di kakayanin. Dinig mo nga sarili mo, dinig ka ba ng drummer at iba mong kasama? Dinig ka din ba ng mga tao sa likod?

I get your point na kayang makipag sabayan sa drummer sa perspective ng gitarista. Pero we should look the sound as a whole. Yung buong tunog ika nga ng banda niyo.

Iba ang tunog sa praktis at tunog sa labas. Di naman pwedeng madinig mo lang yung sarili mo habang may drummer eh OK na.

The threadstarter's question includes the venue, genre, and tone (clean or driven).

Baka kasi isipin niya eh OK na yung 15 watt amp tapos pag tugtugan na eh di pala sapat.

Well, 2 cents lang naman. At least may option siya.

Get a bigger amp which is hassle bitbitin or mag overspend siya against sa small wattage amp na tenbits and pag sisihan niya din sa huli.

Cheers parekoy, biernes ngayon at weekend na bukas hehe.
to each his own...

Offline Ralph_Petrucci

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2017, 05:14:01 PM »
Depende sa amp.
18w H&K Tubemeister - both clean and dirt bitin sa volume. Kapag dirt+boost medyo okay na.

15w Orange Tiny Terror. Now this is monster. Kahit guitar volume down para sa clean malakas pa rin.

Good point sa "spread." Open back cab mas may perceived loudness kse may tunog galing sa likod at mas nagspread ang tunog. Kung closed back cab naman directional lang ang tunog kaya ang nakakarinig lang yun nasa harap ng speaker.

Sorry maski 100w na solid state amp kahit malakas ang volume ay may kulang pa rin at hirap magcut sa tunog ng banda.

Tsaka sabihan nyo drummer nyo na ayusin ang palo. Yun tama lang at hindi yun parang sisirain ang drums.  :-D

guilty po ako. nabutas ko na po drum head ni BKB =))

mas prefer ko talaga ang open back, mejo nakukulangan lang ako sa in your face chugchug capability.



hahaha ako binibiyak ko muna yung wetpaks para makita kung may yellow thingy hahahaha

Offline Queroberos

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2017, 05:23:07 PM »
"Good point sa "spread." Open back cab mas may perceived loudness kse may tunog galing sa likod at mas nagspread ang tunog. Kung closed back cab naman directional lang ang tunog kaya ang nakakarinig lang yun nasa harap ng speaker.

Sorry maski 100w na solid state amp kahit malakas ang volume ay may kulang pa rin at hirap magcut sa tunog ng banda."

Ditto. Adjourned na. Hahaha!

Kung 100W amp nga pwede pa pala magkulang, yung 15w pa kaya? GG.

Happy weekend mga brader!
to each his own...

Offline Ralph_Petrucci

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2017, 05:25:30 PM »
I guess, basing it on your replies regarding sound mixing, eh matitinong prod napapasukan mo. To put it simply, eksenang "pro" ika nga.

My point is this, basing it also sa title ng thread, "Gigging with a small wattage amp". Pwede kung sa pwede, pero, it will depend sa venue. Kung maliit lang ang venue, pwede. Kung kalat at open, yung spread ng tunog eh di kakayanin. Dinig mo nga sarili mo, dinig ka ba ng drummer at iba mong kasama? Dinig ka din ba ng mga tao sa likod?

I get your point na kayang makipag sabayan sa drummer sa perspective ng gitarista. Pero we should look the sound as a whole. Yung buong tunog ika nga ng banda niyo.

Iba ang tunog sa praktis at tunog sa labas. Di naman pwedeng madinig mo lang yung sarili mo habang may drummer eh OK na.

The threadstarter's question includes the venue, genre, and tone (clean or driven).

Baka kasi isipin niya eh OK na yung 15 watt amp tapos pag tugtugan na eh di pala sapat.

Well, 2 cents lang naman. At least may option siya.

Get a bigger amp which is hassle bitbitin or mag overspend siya against sa small wattage amp na tenbits and pag sisihan niya din sa huli.

Cheers parekoy, biernes ngayon at weekend na bukas hehe.

nako, halo halo bradder man. nakaranas na ako ng togs sa isang kilalang school na walang soundsystem, auditorium yung venue (200 pax) kulang na kulang kahit 2x12 yung dala.

majority kasi ng gigging bars in QC and Makati natry ko na kasi, halo halong genre, halohalong tugtugan. karamihan naman sa mga small venue like BKB and Saguijo, forgiving yan. rinig ka definitely. rinig ka ng audience. kung ang sinasabi mo naman ay rinig ka ba ng kabanda mo, well, depende na sa placement ng amp yan. case in point, 70's bistro, guitar amps are way on the left side of the stage, nakaharap pa sa audience, malabong marinig ka talga nung drummer which is at the backside of the venue, sa likod pa ng amp. ganun din sa guijo, ang drummer, nasa likod ng mga guitar amp. di mo naririnig togs ng kasama mo.

gets ko yung sinasabi mong iba ang tunog sa labas, iba ang tunog sa loob. pero given the venue and equipment state sa pinas, as well as unskilled in house techs sa mga venue, wala kang luxury na maensure na magkakadinigan kayo ng kabanda mo. the important thing is maganda ang kalalabasan ng overall sound niyo sa nakikinig, which is the audience. hence answering the question, "Rinig ka ba?"

pansin mo ba kung bakit yung mga prosounding bands eh lagging bitbit ang amps nila kahit hasel? wala eh. kung gusto mo maging consistent sa tunog, magdala ka ng amp mo. hasel magbitbit? eh di kumuha ka ng tech/roadie.

im just saying din na 15 watts (tube), really, is more than enough. depende nalang sa cab na sasaksakan mo. lalo na kung pang gig gig lang naman sa mga bar sa pinas.

kung ang question niya eh pang mga stage tipong open venue, eh malamang nga di ko talaga irerecommend yung 15 (tho nakakita na nga ako ng isang bandang gumawa nito, and impressive enough, hindi naman nagkulang)


happy Friday mga papsi.
hahaha ako binibiyak ko muna yung wetpaks para makita kung may yellow thingy hahahaha


Offline Ralph_Petrucci

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2017, 05:28:15 PM »


Kung 100W amp nga pwede pa pala magkulang, yung 15w pa kaya? GG.



usapang solidstate kasi ito vs tube sa context nung sentence na to... *facepalm*
hahaha ako binibiyak ko muna yung wetpaks para makita kung may yellow thingy hahahaha

Offline skrumian

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2017, 05:31:01 PM »
"
Sorry maski 100w na solid state amp kahit malakas ang volume ay may kulang pa rin at hirap magcut sa tunog ng banda."

Ditto. Adjourned na. Hahaha!

Kung 100W amp nga pwede pa pala magkulang, yung 15w pa kaya? GG.

Happy weekend mga brader!

Bro I'm referring to 15w tube amp vs 100w solid state amp.
And im referring to cutting through the band mix.

Yeah forgot the venue as factor. Intimate closed venue around 50-70 audience puede na sa 15w tube amp. (Again depende sa amp.) More than that lalo sa malalaking venue dapat naka-PA na para controlled na tunog nyo.
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Offline Skybox

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2017, 07:59:02 PM »
 I agree on all the points guys. I guess one good lesson to remember is that twice the wattage doesnt mean twice the volume. In fact you would need 10 times the wattage to get twice as loud. Meaning if you want an amp that is twice as loud as a 15 watt amp, you would need to get a 150 watt amp. Twice the wattage will only get you 3db louder which is hard to percieve by the human ear. So the next time you bring your 15 watt amp to go against a 30 watt amp, remind yourself that he is only 3db louder hehe.

Here's a real life example of a 1 watt tube amp cutting through the mix better than a 40 watt solid state amp. It's mind blowing haha.

Amps:
Peavey 6505MH
Mesa Mark 5 25
Marshall Class 5
Fender Blues Jr
Roland Cube 40
Blackstar HT1

« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 08:05:05 PM by Skybox »
#DigitalHiyaw

Offline nicoyow

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2017, 08:28:59 PM »
Share my experience.

I was able to compare my sound in two different venues.
Venue 1: Marshall MG100fx 100w SS head into marshall 4x12 cab.
Sound was superb! My volume was around 11oclock and even my slightly overdriven riffs cut through the mix.
Venue 2: Vox AC30 (pure vintage right?)
Sweet sweet tone but the problem is, I spend almost 10 minutes controlling my volume :(
The thing was too loud for the venue! What I did is, I fixed my volume pedal to half and drop the volume of the thing to 8oclock just to pair with my co-guitarist  plugged into a fender mustang 4!
(See the difference of SS and tubes.) The volume! So I believe that even a small wattage TUBE amp can be loud enough, but consider the venue too.

Lesson learned: Tube amps are demons in terms of volume  :lol: :lol:
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 08:36:24 PM by nicoyow »
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Offline tackielarla

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2017, 09:09:09 PM »
Twice the wattage will only get you 3db louder which is hard to percieve by the human ear.

Respectfully disagree, but YMMV bro.  :-D

I was able to compare my sound in two different venues.
Venue 1: Marshall MG100fx 100w SS head into marshall 4x12 cab.
Sound was superb! My volume was around 11oclock and even my slightly overdriven riffs cut through the mix.
Venue 2: Vox AC30 (pure vintage right?)

I stopped right there. Yes, an AC30 is an absolute beast in volume. We were fortunate enought to open for Parokya here in Cebu last year, and the AC30 I used was more than holding its own against a Twin Reverb.  :-o
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Offline nicoyow

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2017, 09:19:57 PM »
Respectfully disagree, but YMMV bro.  :-D

I stopped right there. Yes, an AC30 is an absolute beast in volume. We were fortunate enought to open for Parokya here in Cebu last year, and the AC30 I used was more than holding its own against a Twin Reverb.  :-o

Yeah! I believe this beast can still be heard in an open area even without mic.  :lol: :lol:
Sa pinipig, bukod sa pwede mo singhutin, pwede mo rin tikman.

Offline Skybox

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2017, 05:57:21 AM »
Respectfully disagree, but YMMV bro.  :-D

This is not my opinion bro. This is Math. Haha.

10 x log P1 / P2

http://proguitarshop.com/andyscorner/appropriate-wattage
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Offline skrumian

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2017, 11:47:21 AM »
May napanood akong battle of the band (or sort of) ng pamankin ko sa school. Covered basketball court with stage. Parang sila sila lang nagorganize kaya walang PA ang instruments. Nakarekta lang ang mic sa school PA. I think naka-Marshall TSL sila na naka 212. May side ang audience na rinig ang amp, drum at may side na hindi masyado. At lubog ang bass kase olats bass amp. Hindi balanced. In short, kung walang PA sa malaking venue expect na pangit distribution ng tunog kahit na anong ganda ng gamit nyo.
Looking for second hand but still in good condition books:
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Offline ebacoids

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2017, 04:34:57 PM »
okay so i hear people saying na kaya naman pero may nag sasabi din na hindi. i guess masyado madaming factors to consider para makakuha ng accurate na answer.

pero paano kung ganito yung situation: Using a 5 watt tweed champ style amp set up on the verge of break up (miced), playing in a bar (suppose saguijo), with band consisting of  another guitarist, drums and bass. Kakayanin ba ng amp dito?

and on the topic of micing it, is it recommended to bring your own mic for micing the amp? and paano kung wala kang tech with you? is it safe to assume that the sound guy at the bar will know what to do?

Offline skrumian

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2017, 11:45:48 PM »
pero paano kung ganito yung situation: Using a 5 watt tweed champ style amp set up on the verge of break up (miced), playing in a bar (suppose saguijo), with band consisting of  another guitarist, drums and bass. Kakayanin ba ng amp dito?

and on the topic of micing it, is it recommended to bring your own mic for micing the amp? and paano kung wala kang tech with you? is it safe to assume that the sound guy at the bar will know what to do?

Kung naka-mic ang amp, the you're at the mercy of the PA system. Kung maayos ang PA, then good. Kung olat ang PA, then bad for you. Kahit magdala ka nang pinakamahal na mic eh kung yun pagkakabitan ay di maayos na PA system eh di wala rin.

Siguro for general discussion, IMHO, a 15w tube amp will be enough for small gig.
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Offline shoegaze geezer

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2017, 10:32:08 AM »
It is possible for small venues if you are using tube amps plus it is mic'd.
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Offline Skybox

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2017, 12:08:40 PM »
Here's a great episode of That Pedal Show educating guitarists about amp wattage.

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Offline ebacoids

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2017, 05:19:47 PM »
i rewatched that episode while i was contemplating this problem. haha dun sa recent na vid ng pedal show dinaanan nila yung pag gamit ng attenuator. apparently may mga attenuator na power amp din. so bukod sa pag bawas ng volume ng cranked amp, pwede din niya palakasin ng small amp. interesting things to take into consideration

Offline tackielarla

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2017, 01:58:46 AM »
This is not my opinion bro. This is Math. Haha.

10 x log P1 / P2

http://proguitarshop.com/andyscorner/appropriate-wattage

Cool. I wasn't questioning the math. It was the statement on "3db is hard to preceive by the human ear". Again, ymmv.  :-D
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Offline Ralph_Petrucci

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Re: Gigging with a small wattage amp.
« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2017, 09:50:48 AM »
okay so i hear people saying na kaya naman pero may nag sasabi din na hindi. i guess masyado madaming factors to consider para makakuha ng accurate na answer.

pero paano kung ganito yung situation: Using a 5 watt tweed champ style amp set up on the verge of break up (miced), playing in a bar (suppose saguijo), with band consisting of  another guitarist, drums and bass. Kakayanin ba ng amp dito?

and on the topic of micing it, is it recommended to bring your own mic for micing the amp? and paano kung wala kang tech with you? is it safe to assume that the sound guy at the bar will know what to do?

kung saguijo lang papi pasok na yan. sobrang liit at sobrang closed ng saguijo sa loob so audience wise, rinig ka naman, pero gritty ka na at this point given na 5 watt head lang gagamitin mo.

don't count on saguijo's tech to mic your amp hahaha saguijo's PAs are not even mediocre, lagging kawawa mga bokalista jan eh hahahaha
hahaha ako binibiyak ko muna yung wetpaks para makita kung may yellow thingy hahahaha