Dissecting HIYAW... the science, the psycho-acoustic nature, and the fallacies

[notlimhxcx]

i remember Arie telling me that my guitar does overtones and some harmonics come out involuntarily.

i told him "can you get rid of it? i want overtones or harmonics to come out WHEN i want it."

he said "but most guitar players would love that, its actually desirable, i cannot do anything about it, its your guitar's characteristic."

i cannot do anything about it, its what it is..

my point is no matter how desirable something is for others, if i don't like it, i don't like it.

is that particular guitar an MIJ sir? thanks.

[robo-rat]

This

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+1000000000... hands and gears ...combined in one package..plus stage presence..

[Xelly]

This

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"HIYAW" in action!!!

[samuelfianza]

Maybe FAT people have lesser HIYAW than slender ones because their body absorbs some Vibration.

[scHism]

...so hindi nare-record tong 'hiyaw'? mukhang di ko sya kailangan then...

 

Please elaborate and demonstrate if possible.

I want to hear it too. 

[micr0chimp]

...is the character of an instrument that helps a musician make one note mean more than a thousand internet posts.  Back to work, people.  Live and let live.

[scHism]

On that note, I would like to know if indeed there is hiyaw, perceivable, recordable, w/c is more important, the "hiyaw" of the note or the combination of notes, playing dynamics, effects, etc. that makes a song?

I would understand the big deal about hiyaw if the song is composed of one note/measure sustained notes but otherwise, i would just want to hear it for novelties sake or home noodling.

[micr0chimp]

Off the bat?

That held note in Hendrix's Machine Gun.  The one the Univibe latched on to.

The first bent note in Eric Johnson's Cliffs Of Dover.

Every note Jeff Beck plays. =D

I'm sure the others can chime in because I think you are right.  Musical examples will be the most helpful.

[maxi_musikero]

question - can hiyaw be heard in pure clean tone? 

[deltaslim]

question - can hiyaw be heard in pure clean tone? 

If by hiyaw you mean the double tone I refer to, and by pure clean tone you mean like a nice Fender blackface clean tone and not a sterile solid state tone, well, yeah sure you can.

[Filippo]

based on what I have experienced, yes you can get a double tone even on clean tone.

+1 on that Joric, I was using a 65 deluxe reverb...

[maxi_musikero]

If by hiyaw you mean the double tone I refer to, and by pure clean tone you mean like a nice Fender blackface clean tone and not a sterile solid state tone, well, yeah sure you can.

cool!  but this statement just got me thinking:

Now what does this have to do with guitars?  IMO, a guitar with 'hiyaw' is a guitar that can exhibit overtones in a way that creates very rich tones.   And this has nothing to do with humbuckers or single coils... It is a trait from the PHYSICAL build of the guitar.

if it's really from the physical build of the guitar, then why need a nice tube amp to exhibit hiyaw?  why not in solid state?  if it has hiyaw, then it has hiyaw.  i may go as far as saying that it should be apparent just by mic'ing the unplugged electric guitar by itself.  if it's purely on the physical build, then amps, pickups and effects should not be in the equation to get hiyaw.

or is my mind just going wild with nonsense? 

[masterchoxter]

cool!  but this statement just got me thinking:

if it's really from the physical build of the guitar, then why need a nice tube amp to exhibit hiyaw?  why not in solid state?  if it has hiyaw, then it has hiyaw.  i may go as far as saying that it should be apparent just by mic'ing the unplugged electric guitar by itself.  if it's purely on the physical build, then amps, pickups and effects should not be in the equation to get hiyaw.

or is my mind just going wild with nonsense? 

ditto.. same query... please clarify...

[notlimhxcx]

ditto.. same query... please clarify...

exactly.. waiting for a reply too..

[pitongjerome]

is that particular guitar an MIJ sir? thanks.

nope..

[mrpentatonic]

IMHO, how you will hear the "hiyaw" depends on the tolerance of your ear. 

[deltaslim]

cool!  but this statement just got me thinking:

if it's really from the physical build of the guitar, then why need a nice tube amp to exhibit hiyaw?  why not in solid state?  if it has hiyaw, then it has hiyaw.  i may go as far as saying that it should be apparent just by mic'ing the unplugged electric guitar by itself.  if it's purely on the physical build, then amps, pickups and effects should not be in the equation to get hiyaw.

or is my mind just going wild with nonsense? 

What that means is simply that a pickup, and therefore an amp, cannot pick up and amplify frequencies that are not physically produced by the  guitar itself.  Certain pickups, amps, speakers, and mics, however, due to their resonant frequencies, can amplify certain frequencies better or stronger than others. In a way, you might say certain frequencies are almost "boosted" while others are "attenuated". Remember, everything in the system is a tone filter.

Many PAF and boutique pus are good at it.  Fender blackface amps seem to have this quality, as do other amps. But many pickups and amps don't: they are the ones we call one-dimensional, lifeless, dull because they don't "pick up" everything that a good guitar puts out. It's like hearing a note's fundamental and not much else. 

[johnbrown]

Nice thread and a lot of info.....

Just contributing my thoughts on this... I guess hiyaw for me is a technique, dynamic and personal taste of a player. Yes gear THE GUITAR $$$ plays a major role, but getting two different person playing it with different levels will surely show the sound difference.

[maxi_musikero]

What that means is simply that a pickup, and therefore an amp, cannot pick up and amplify frequencies that are not physically produced by the  guitar itself.  Certain pickups, amps, speakers, and mics, however, due to their resonant frequencies, can amplify certain frequencies better or stronger than others. In a way, you might say certain frequencies are almost "boosted" while others are "attenuated". Remember, everything in the system is a tone filter.

Many PAF and boutique pus are good at it.  Fender blackface amps seem to have this quality, as do other amps. But many pickups and amps don't: they are the ones we call one-dimensional, lifeless, dull because they don't "pick up" everything that a good guitar puts out. It's like hearing a note's fundamental and not much else. 

what i take away from this is that hiyaw is really not JUST in the physical build of the guitar but also in the pickups and amp used.  so there is really no way of knowing if a guitar has hiyaw in itself; it has to be complemented by good pickups and a good amp that will help pick-up everything a good guitar puts out.  did i get it right?

to sum it up:

great guitar + great pickups + great amp = HIYAW
great guitar + crappy pickups + great amp = possibly no hiyaw
great guitar + great pickups + crappy amp = possibly no hiyaw

[masterchoxter]

what i take away from this is that hiyaw is really not JUST in the physical build of the guitar but also in the pickups and amp used.  so there is really no way of knowing if a guitar has hiyaw in itself; it has to be complemented by good pickups and a good amp that will help pick-up everything a good guitar puts out.  did i get it right?

to sum it up:

great guitar + great pickups + great amp = HIYAW
great guitar + crappy pickups + great amp = possibly no hiyaw
great guitar + great pickups + crappy amp = possibly no hiyaw

+100

add cables there too...

[Alchemist0725]

I'll go with these equations:

great guitar + great pickups + great amp + great technique = HIYAW
great guitar + great pickups + great amp + poor technique = HILAW

[deltaslim]

what i take away from this is that hiyaw is really not JUST in the physical build of the guitar but also in the pickups and amp used.  so there is really no way of knowing if a guitar has hiyaw in itself; it has to be complemented by good pickups and a good amp that will help pick-up everything a good guitar puts out.  did i get it right?

to sum it up:

great guitar + great pickups + great amp = HIYAW
great guitar + crappy pickups + great amp = possibly no hiyaw
great guitar + great pickups + crappy amp = possibly no hiyaw

I think it's more accurate to say that the guitar can have it acoustically (eg, in an anechoic chamber)  but it might be hard to hear w/o good pickups and amps. The pickups and amp just convert, amplify, and possibly enhance what the guitar is producing physically. If it's not produced by the guitar itself, the best pickups and amps in the world won't re-produce it.  It might help to note that acoustic guitars can have double tone/hiyaw properties too, which just proves the point that the root of that characteristic is the physical/construction properties of the guitar.

However, the moment string vibration is converted to electromagnetic energy by the pickup and amplified by the amp/speaker, i believe the pickup and amps start to play a very big role in the final tone. That's when pickup materials, construction, location, height, position, and a myriad of amp properties, changes the basic acoustic tone into something more. So, again, in that sense, pickups, amps, and speakers, play a part in how that double tone (or hiyaw or whatever you wanna call it) will be heard by human ears post-amplification. It's still the sum of all parts, even though the physical guitar is the only part that you cannot do without.

[maxi_musikero]

I think it's more accurate to say that the guitar can have it acoustically (eg, in an anechoic chamber)  but it might be hard to hear w/o good pickups and amps. The pickups and amp just convert, amplify, and possibly enhance what the guitar is producing physically. If it's not produced by the guitar itself, the best pickups and amps in the world won't re-produce it.

is there a way to possibly mic an electric guitar that allegedly has "hiyaw", and make the hiyaw come out?  this is to take the amps and pickups out of the picture and focus on the guitar itself, since that's what this thread is pointing out from the get go.  no need to enhance/cut any frequencies since it defeats the purpose of the hiyaw being inherent in the guitar.

as you said, some pickups and amps enhance some frequencies of the guitar.  so if a guitar is inherently warm sounding, just slap on some pickups with treble-leaning EQ + a bright amp = the sound that will come out will be what the pickups and amp reproduce.  on the flipside, if a guitar is too trebly the slap on some pickups that are more on the low/mid frequencies + a dark amp = warm tone comes out.  effects isn't even in the equation here.

the magic of an electric guitar.  if it were an acoustic guitar, it would be a lot different. 

[deltaslim]

is there a way to possibly mic an electric guitar that allegedly has "hiyaw", and make the hiyaw come out?  this is to take the amps and pickups out of the picture and focus on the guitar itself, since that's what this thread is pointing out from the get go.  no need to enhance/cut any frequencies since it defeats the purpose of the hiyaw being inherent in the guitar.

as you said, some pickups and amps enhance some frequencies of the guitar.  so if a guitar is inherently warm sounding, just slap on some pickups with treble-leaning EQ + a bright amp = the sound that will come out will be what the pickups and amp reproduce.  on the flipside, if a guitar is too trebly the slap on some pickups that are more on the low/mid frequencies + a dark amp = warm tone comes out.  effects isn't even in the equation here.

the magic of an electric guitar.  if it were an acoustic guitar, it would be a lot different.  

That's why we like acoustics, they're up-front and honest. Less mumbo-jumbo but not less in tone. Hehe...

Why the need to mic an unplugged electric guitar?  Just listen for it and if it's there, it's there.  If other people don't hear it then, they won't believe you even if you mic it, plug into an amp, or record it.  In any case, kaya nga maganda sa acoustic muna siguro itry pakinggan (the original unplugged guitar).  Everyone knows how old/"dead" strings make an acoustic sound dull. That's because the overtones/harmonics have disappeared.  You can bet that guitar will not "hiyaw".  Other factors can kill overtones in an acoustic (construction, structural issues, etc).

[Bolt Thrower]

kung ganoon pala, gawa na tayo hiyaw pedal o hiyaw modeler.