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Author Topic: multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??  (Read 3705 times)

Offline Blueberri

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« on: February 06, 2006, 01:21:22 AM »
i dont know if this is old news. but has anyone here tried using multiple soundcards to be able to send more than just a stereo signal into a PC??

im currently using my on-board audio (stereo pair) and a cheap yamaha soundcard(stereo pair) for a total of 4 channels of input. and can record simultaneously from a 4 bus mixer into Sonar 4 PE.

im looking forward to adding in another soundcard to see if it'll work...but if anyone else has tried this, and maybe knows any conflicts or audio problems that may ocuur from this pls let me know...

and if this works out...let this be my contribution to the tight budjeted home recordist...hehe

Offline KitC

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2006, 02:18:24 AM »
Been doing that since '97 with an AWE32 and SBLive when mobos with ISA and PCI slots were still the fashion. Among the problems you can encounter are differing sound quality, hardware conflicts, and most importantly, sync issues. This article from Sound on Sound magazine details some of the problems you can expect although it is a bit dated (1999). It can be a little more difficult now since most mobos have onboard peripherals like LAN, USB, and audio that can cause IRQ conflicts with the soundcard/s. This conflicts can cause audio distortions and even BSODs.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline Blueberri

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2006, 11:36:29 PM »
tnx sir...

wierd lang was that i couldnt find anything about it online...just slapped in the soundcard and prayed...

luckily its been working well for me so far...i guess swerte lang...recorded 4 tracks of drums...stereo overheads, kick, snare...sounds pretty decent...also tried live recording, stereo mix of drums/guitars, with seperate tracks for bass and vocals. gives a little bit more for me to play with in Sonar...

Offline BAMF

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2006, 11:56:56 PM »
The old software I used to use, Cooledit Pro, supported multiple soundcards and I used in tandem cheapo Avance and CMI soundcards. I'll have to check if my current software (audition) still supports it. It should though, it was written around Cooledit Pro.

Thanks for reminding me. Sure beats buying an m-audio audiophile multitrack soundcard (cost wise laannngg...).

BAMF
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Offline KitC

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2006, 01:08:06 PM »
Quote from: BAMF
The old software I used to use, Cooledit Pro, supported multiple soundcards and I used in tandem cheapo Avance and CMI soundcards. I'll have to check if my current software (audition) still supports it. It should though, it was written around Cooledit Pro.


Any app that uses WDM drivers has the provision to use multiple soundcards, assuming you can overstep the dedicated irq requirement. Aside from my Emu 1820, I'm also running my onboard audio. At one point, I also had a Terratec DMX 6Fire in my computer, all running happily at the same time. The problem was syncing all 3 because their individual crystal clocks have subtle differences in their timing, the result will be a drift among the tracks recorded by the 3 sound devices. To hear the drift, just record the same drum track to 2 soundcards simultaneously; you will find them going out of sync over time, i.e., the snares (and kick) will gradually flam at first then eventually separate. This can be edited, of course, but it will take a lot of effort to sync all tracks.

If the cards have s/pdif i/o, you can use that to set a master/slave configuration to sync the cards, but not all soundcards have digital i/o. Personally, I don't like motherboard s/pdif because it's clock is fixed at 48 kHz and I don't like sample rate converting from 48 to 44.1 because of SRC artifacts.

You can't use ASIO for multiple soundcards because ASIO will only let you use one sound device at a time. Some asio drivers allow you to use the multiple instances of the same soundcards; in this case, the cards will be perfectly in sync because of the design of their asio drivers.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire


Offline alalala

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« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2006, 06:05:35 PM »
bro, just experiment, we were doing this since the pentium 2 era. some work and some don't, depends on the motherboard i guess, keep trying, wag kang mawawalan ng pagasa
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Offline abyssinianson

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2006, 07:05:39 PM »
i do. a pair of M-Audio Delta 1010 rackmounts to record drums tracks straight to board. it works but you have to be careful to disable your onboard sound via BIOS adjustments so you dont have driver issues.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline KitC

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2006, 09:40:48 PM »
Quote from: abyssinianson
i do. a pair of M-Audio Delta 1010 rackmounts to record drums tracks straight to board. it works but you have to be careful to disable your onboard sound via BIOS adjustments so you dont have driver issues.


In this case, I agree it would be better to disable onboard sound. Also, you should disable the various ports you don't use like the printer port, COM ports, and LAN/USB/Firewire if your mobo has those. You just might be able to free up some resources/IRQ's that way. I'm also not a fan of onboard graphics because of their limited resolutions, plus they eat up some of your RAM.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline Blueberri

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2006, 11:13:18 PM »
mmm...m-audio 1010s...sarap!!

well this guy hasnt got the cash for something like that yet...
so would it be better kung kuha ako ng 2/3 soundcards of the same type??
if so...any suggestions on a cheap solution?? I saw CMI soundcards at around 500 bucks each...ayus lang ba yun?? or low end creative cards kaya??

did try the ASIO...the other card wouldnt show up...so ill stick with the wdm..buti na lang may audio click ang sonar 4 PE

Offline abyssinianson

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2006, 05:18:14 AM »
you could use any sound card I imagine as long as it is a pro-audio type card that uses ASIO drivers. also, make sure that the card you choose explicitly says what recording resolution you can record at like 24/ 32 bit at max of 96khz or even 192khz. this is important so you record and make your songs with the best resolution so you don't loose definition when you mix down to 44.1 and burn to a CD.

there are a lot of great audio cards out there but just make sure to know that gaming cards such as Sound Blaster's Audigy is NOT a recording soundcard even if it has the capacity to do so. for references on what to look for in a card, compare specs from E-Mu, M-Audio, RME, Creamware...and choose what best suits your needs as far as line-in, midi, built in mic pre with phantom.

the thing with WDM is that the latency is really high and you run into serious delay problems when you try and sync your music with your playing. if the ASIO drivers don't know, try downloading the new drivers to your card and then browse the preferences aspect of your card to see how you can switch ti ASIO.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline KitC

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2006, 12:33:35 PM »
Quote from: Blueberri
mmm...m-audio 1010s...sarap!!

well this guy hasnt got the cash for something like that yet...
so would it be better kung kuha ako ng 2/3 soundcards of the same type??
if so...any suggestions on a cheap solution?? I saw CMI soundcards at around 500 bucks each...ayus lang ba yun?? or low end creative cards kaya??


It's possible but it sometimes won't work. Apparently, you can't have 2 audigy's working in one pc; something to do with Creative's driver implementation. abyssinianson is right about not using gaming cards for serious recording work. I've been thru that path and, sad to say, it is sometimes the only recourse for most of us here. At least there is an MAudio distributor in P'que so there is hope. You can use multiple Maudio cards in one computer

I hope you're not serious about CMI because their signal to noise is horrendous - the classic you-get-what-you-pay-for. I doubt if you can hear the full frequency range of your mix. The Creatives naman have a fixed 48 kHz sampling rate which can cause problems if you have to master to 44.1 kHz cd format. Most samplerate conversion algorithms in a lot of the 'locally available' sound editing progs leave weird artifacts in the high frequencies.

Quote from: Blueberri
did try the ASIO...the other card wouldnt show up...so ill stick with the wdm..buti na lang may audio click ang sonar 4 PE


I did mention that ASIO ties you to one audio device at a time so if you have 2 or more cards of different makes, sorry, no go; WDM lang ang pwedeng multiple cards pero sa latency ka naman talo. Like I said earlier, Maudio is the choice for multiple cards.

I'd rely more on midi metronome thru an external device (keyboard, module) than with Sonar's audio metronome especially if you can't get latency below 10ms. Trust me, the actual latency is the reported latency times 2 so if your lowest is 10 ms, the actual latency is 20 ms and that is very audible and can screw up timing considerably. That's also the reason why asio is the preferred driver because you can get lower latencies. Some cards have wdm drivers that can give very low latencies but I haven't seen any that are locally available.

Now you're thinking asio4all will give you low latencies. Asio4all is a wdm wrapper that makes the soundcard's wdm drivers appear as asio to the host application. It may show you low latencies but what it doesn't show is that it adds 11 ms on top of the reported latency.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline abyssinianson

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2006, 01:30:57 PM »
if i can make a recommendation, you can look into the M-Audio 2496 as a possibility. its a PC interface, has great support and you can piggy back it with another 2496 if your computer can handle it. the unit receives a lot of good reviews and i knew a few people that are satisfied with it.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline Blueberri

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 01:07:54 PM »
thanks mga ser...saan yung M-Adio distro dito?? can someone PM me the contact details....thanks!!!

Offline KitC

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 01:32:05 PM »
Crystal Audio - 8738746/8739094, look for Perry.

I'm in no way connected to Crystal Audio nor have I done business with them yet; I do know of others who have bought the 2496 from CA/Perry. One thing's for sure, I'm doing them a big favor by posting their contact numbers here.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline Blueberri

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multiple soundcards: anyone else tried this yet??
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2006, 01:25:05 PM »
salamat!