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Author Topic: The Right Amp  (Read 21551 times)

Offline firemodel55

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #50 on: August 26, 2007, 08:38:33 AM »
Bluenote,

As I said before, its the character of the amp that matters not its looks.  And one characteristic of the Uberschall is a high headroom clean channel.  Plus the cleans are kind of stiff which suits jazz runs and chording.

Offline bluenote

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #51 on: August 26, 2007, 08:46:42 AM »
Bluenote,

As I said before, its the character of the amp that matters not its looks.  And one characteristic of the Uberschall is a high headroom clean channel.  Plus the cleans are kind of stiff which suits jazz runs and chording.

My question was if you knew how to play jazz...

The dragon has put out my fire.

Offline firemodel55

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #52 on: August 26, 2007, 08:53:42 AM »
No I dont but I know how to get the sound.

Offline bluenote

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #53 on: August 26, 2007, 02:07:19 PM »
No I dont but I know how to get the sound.

How can you know what sound is needed when you dont even play jazz?

I mean for sure you you havent played through a jazz set and yet here you are giving amp advice to people who can and actually plays jazz...

The dragon has put out my fire.

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2007, 02:52:33 PM »
How can you know what sound is needed when you dont even play jazz?

I mean for sure you you havent played through a jazz set and yet here you are giving amp advice to people who can and actually plays jazz...

Errrm... you really don't have to play the music (or even be an excellent player at that) to know how to set up things for killer tone.  Case in point: Thomas Nordegg who is Steve Vai's tech.  He can't play 1/100ths of what Steve can do but he surely knows how to get Steve's tone.

Leo Fender is another one.

Leslie Hammond is another example in the organ world.

Although I agree to some extent that knowing and playing the music helps alot in your gear choices.


Offline bluenote

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #55 on: August 26, 2007, 02:59:33 PM »
Errrm... you really don't have to play the music (or even be an excellent player at that) to know how to set up things for killer tone.  Case in point: Thomas Nordegg who is Steve Vai's tech.  He can't play 1/100ths of what Steve can do but he surely knows how to get Steve's tone.

Leo Fender is another one.

Leslie Hammond is another example in the organ world.

Although I agree to some extent that knowing and playing the music helps alot in your gear choices.

As you said Thomas Nordegg is Steve Vai's engineer. Steve Vai dictates what sound he wants and not the other way around. Plus Thomas Nordegg is a pro guitar tech so he knows what he is doing.

Leo Fender was an engineer who teamed up with numerous country musicians to develop his products...

I dont know about you but for me I have to experience things in a practical situation first hand for me to give advice to other people...   

The dragon has put out my fire.

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #56 on: August 26, 2007, 03:53:43 PM »
As you said Thomas Nordegg is Steve Vai's engineer. Steve Vai dictates what sound he wants and not the other way around. Plus Thomas Nordegg is a pro guitar tech so he knows what he is doing.

Leo Fender was an engineer who teamed up with numerous country musicians to develop his products...

I dont know about you but for me I have to experience things in a practical situation first hand for me to give advice to other people...   

I dunno how valid my comments would be, but do you know that each and every Mesa Boogie Dual or triple Recto that goes out of the factory would go through the hands of some builder/engineer at the factory (forgot his name) who plays Jazz strictly.  But he's very good at voicing high gain amps.


Offline nicosci

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #57 on: August 26, 2007, 05:45:03 PM »
Two-Rock Reverb Signature/ Sterling Signature/ John Mayer Signature

Any of them
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Offline firemodel55

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #58 on: August 26, 2007, 06:31:44 PM »
bluenote,

I dont have to know how to play jazz to get the electric guitar timbre for jazz.  For example, a jazz player does not need to know how to play death metal to know how to get a death metal sound on his archtop. 

Offline firemodel55

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #59 on: August 26, 2007, 06:45:39 PM »
Bluenote,

You seem to have contradicted yourself.  You say that Thomas Nordegg knows what he is doing yet he does not play Steve Vai's music.  Again, you contradict yourself with Leo Fender who was never a guitar player yet knew how to get a country sound.

But I agree with you that it is best to experience something first BUT not a necessity to be able to give advice.  For example, I am assuming you are using a Fender Strat.  Just because you have not heard all the good sounding vintage strats does not mean your opinion on Strats is not as important as someone who owns vintage strats.  Get the point?

I would just like to make an additional point:  Any guitar that sounds good with character no matter what it looks like, will sound good in ANY type of music.  Any amp that sounds good and has good character will sound good in ANY type of music.  My baker will sound good in any type of music including classical because I have seen and heard different people use it for different styles of music.  Even my Marshall Super Lead with some distortion pedals in the front end can do nu metal.

Offline bluenote

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #60 on: August 26, 2007, 09:19:02 PM »
Bluenote,

You seem to have contradicted yourself.  You say that Thomas Nordegg knows what he is doing yet he does not play Steve Vai's music.  Again, you contradict yourself with Leo Fender who was never a guitar player yet knew how to get a country sound.

But I agree with you that it is best to experience something first BUT not a necessity to be able to give advice.  For example, I am assuming you are using a Fender Strat.  Just because you have not heard all the good sounding vintage strats does not mean your opinion on Strats is not as important as someone who owns vintage strats.  Get the point?

I would just like to make an additional point:  Any guitar that sounds good with character no matter what it looks like, will sound good in ANY type of music.  Any amp that sounds good and has good character will sound good in ANY type of music.  My baker will sound good in any type of music including classical because I have seen and heard different people use it for different styles of music.  Even my Marshall Super Lead with some distortion pedals in the front end can do nu metal.

These people are professionals Thomas Nordegg for example may not play at Vai's level but he is a qulified guitar tech so I believe that he has the authority to say what works and what does'nt...

Leo Fender may never have produced such beautiful gear if he was not aided by pro musicians like Bill Carson on the development of the strat for example. Plus he was a profssional engineer ergo giving him some credit.

So unless you are a musician who knows what an amp feels like when when you personally play through it in a live jazz gig or a sound engineer who knows how things should sound like I suggest you not be so sure of what you say because some people here may also know what they are talking about based on actual personal experience and not just listening to other people playing...

The dragon has put out my fire.

Offline Phil

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2007, 11:18:45 PM »
...one of the reasons why I took the plunge and chose Brown Note because the maker himself is also a gigging guitar player..... so the perfect amp guy is a guy who is also a musician.
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Offline firemodel55

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2007, 11:54:22 PM »
Bluenote,

Let me remind you that skunky was the one who said that the Uberschall would not do well for jazz.  Now, I don't know how many dudes have tried an actual uberschall everyday of their lives and I am saying that its clean channel will do well for jazz.  And let me point out that you don't have one and yet you insinuate that I cannot say if its suitable for jazz just because I cannot play jazz? 

Correspondingly, I will say that you are not in a position to also say that its is NOT suitable for jazz for the plain and simple reason that you have not heard it in person.  Whether you play better jazz than me or not, does not put you in a better position to assess because you have not heard and used the equipment by itself of live in band context.

As you said below, Thomas will only follow what Vai says so what does being a qualified guitar tech have anything to do with it if he just follows whatever Steve Vai says?  Thats another contradiction for you.

A good sound engineer gave me a piece of good advice.  He said for live playing and inspiration, use your amps.  If you want quick and painless recording, use a POD.  Now, I am sure that he knows what sounds good.  But to him things can sound like a POD in the studio and I don't deny that in a total live band mix, things might just sound like POD.  But the main message there was I am more knowledgeable about the amps that I own and use than he will ever be and so he leaves it up to me to serve up the inspiration and tone settings from my equipment. 

By the way, I don't have to be a musician by any definition to know what an amp feels like.  In the same way, there are some musicians who might just play fenders and marshalls their whole life and never touch a single bogner.  That does not make them more knowledgeable than me about bogners.  Besides some of the amps I have are recommended by Musicians abroad who have more experience than some of the cats here.  It does not make then more superior but it does make them more knowledgeable because they are more exposed than majority of musicians here.  Its just the way of life.   

You play a Strat right?  Bill Carson does country right?  Assuming I follow your logic, you should be just doing country.  But you are doing jazz I guess and possibly some blues and rock.  Did Leo and Bill prevent you from playing the Strat for something else other than country?  Nope.  Did you have to experience playing country the first time to play a Strat?  No you did not.   Cause I can fault you and say that you are using the Strat in a wrong manner following your logic -- that to know a Strat you have to know how to play country.  But you play a strat for some other reason greater than the initial objective of Leo to make a country guitar.  And thats what I am saying about good sounding equipment with character, it transcends musical styles. 

Offline tele-tubby

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2007, 05:20:29 AM »
By the way, I don't have to be a musician by any definition to know what an amp feels like.  In the same way, there are some musicians who might just play fenders and marshalls their whole life and never touch a single bogner.  That does not make them more knowledgeable than me about bogners.  Besides some of the amps I have are recommended by Musicians abroad who have more experience than some of the cats here.  It does not make then more superior but it does make them more knowledgeable because they are more exposed than majority of musicians here.  Its just the way of life.   

the way of life is this:  who would you ask for fishing advice?  the hobbyist fisherman who has the best tools money can buy and goes out to fish around 2x a year... or the professional fisherman, who has the [gooey brown stuff] equipment  but does it every day of his life? :-)

Offline Phil

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2007, 10:02:22 AM »
the way of life is this:  who would you ask for fishing advice?  the hobbyist fisherman who has the best tools money can buy and goes out to fish around 2x a year... or the professional fisherman, who has the [gooey brown stuff] equipment  but does it every day of his life? :-)
neither.. I would go for the professional fisherman who have been touring all of their lives.... slowly acquiring the best equipment that he can buy ( most of them have really really nice equipment and mind you they are not as rich as "you know who"... simple people with mortage and car payments) .... thats who I'd ask here in the U.S.
you want to live life and be healthy?<br />www.wellness-spring.info

Offline firemodel55

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2007, 10:18:40 AM »
Dudes,

I know how important personal experience plays in determining which equipment sounds good to everyone.  For myself, I have mentioned here what is then a hobby is now a passion and as much as there are a lot of talented and experienced musicians here, there are people more talented and experienced beyond these shores.  Nowadays, I rely on these people to make equipment decisions for me because they are more exposed and more knowledgeable.  For example, before my Baker arrived, I and cliff cultreri were discussing which amp would bring out the best out of the Baker.  He said that it should not be a problem and he even suggested that what I felt was sucky sounding clean channel on the Bogner Uberschall was a channel that the Baker could drive.  I was skeptical but when the Baker arrived and I plugged in I could get cleans and jazzy sounding stuff.

So who the hell is cliff cultreri? ( I apologize for having to repeat this post again)
"Cliff brings to the table 30 years of music industry experience, during which he was responsible for producing and executive producing primarily guitar-driven music. Cliff was responsible for signing and executive producing such artists as Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Alan Holdsworth, Peter Frampton, Warren Haynes and GOV'T Mule, Steve Howe, John McLaughlin, Scott Henderson, Slash's Snakepit, Opeth, Megadeath, C.O.C., Exodus, Anthrax, Slayer, The Cure, My Bloody Valentine, Our Lady Peace, and too many more to mention. During that time, projects involving Cliff had received 18 Grammy Nominations and 27 Gold, Platinum and Multi-Platinum awards. Cliff was also privileged to work alongside of some of the greatest producers in rock history such as Glyn Johns (The Who, Rolling Stones), Andy Johns (Led Zeppelin), Jim Gaines (Stevie Ray Vaughan), Butch Vig (Nirvana), Bob Rock (Metallica), etc... He has been recording guitar driven rock records since 1975 and has thus gathered a wealth of knowledge in that arena. It is this knowledge that he brings to the table to share with all who work with him at DestroyAllGuitars."

Some quotes about Cliff:
"I was discovered by Frank Zappa but Cliff Cultreri gave me my chance in the music business and if it was not for his instincts, support and encouragement, it's unlikely I would have had a successful music career. When you hear about music business folk lore you hear the fairy tale stories of the one guy that made a difference but was more or less an unsung hero. Cliff was my guardian angel. After countless refusals from virtually every label, Cliff was the only one to take the chance and release my music, giving me a deal that is to this day unequivocally unprecedented in the music business." - Steve Vai

"Back in the 80's when Cliff was with Relativity, he signed my band Tribal Tech, and also helped us get our first three records released. He also really helped us in our first attempts at touring in the US. The music that I play isn't very commercial and I knew it was Cliff's appreciation for what we do that influenced him to help us, more than just trying to make money. Thanks Cliff!" - Scott Henderson

"Cliff is my tone guru. He knows amps and guitars better than anyone, and I trust his recommendations when it comes to equipment. I've known Cliff since '85 and he's always been on the new frontier with both music and gear. He signed me to Relativity back in '86 and since then has continued to help me develop as a solo artist. Now with DestroyAllGuitars on the web we all have a place to go when we need Cliff's advice!" - Joe Satriani

Now, I dont have to be a gigging dude in any situation to know what sounds good if I have Cliff who helps me make equipment purchasing decisions.  And believe me, he knows about stuff that he is not even selling on his website and at the same time honest enough to say if he does not know.  If you guys are looking to musical credentials, I am telling you that this is the MAN.  Who here locally can match his achievements? But you know what? Anybody can write to him and ask for advice.  I don't have a monopoly on him. In fact, more than just selling me a Baker, he has shown me a guitar that I never thought would exist in terms of sound character kaya ako bilib sa kanya maski na wala akong tinanungan na gigging musician dito.  Between that Aegis guitarist who gigs alot with [gooey brown stuff] sounding equipment or Cliff and Ken Volpe, I would put my trust in Cliff or Ken.

Now if you claim to know more about good sounding guitar than Cliff Cultreri just because you are gigging musician on [gooey brown stuff] equipment, then you are full of hot air.  
  

Offline RATBUMAN

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2007, 11:20:17 AM »
Nakakaasar na ang mga usapan sa thread na 'to.  Itigil na dapat 'to !!! Magpapataasan nalang ba tayo ng ihi??  Dapat tayong mga Pilipinong musikero ay magtulungan at hindi mag away away at magyabangan.  Nakaka BURAT na!!! Kung hindi itigil 'to baka may ma ban uli...

Sino sa inyo ang sangayon ????


RATBUMAN

Offline micr0chimp

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2007, 11:56:23 AM »
I can't afford high-end guitar gear.

Am I less of a musician?

Am I even one?

Should I quit?

Mr. Cultreri seems to be a very supportive person.  We need more supportive people.

Offline PRSMan

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2007, 12:31:24 PM »
Alex -- I mean no offense... but you are nowhere near the caliber of a Cliff Cultreri who people can or should really listen to.  I'm sure your passion about this has made you very knowledgeable through the years... but don't get upset if people hesitate to believe you because you're still a nobody in many people's eyes. 

Bluenote -- I think your responses to Alex are more out of frustration and its understandable.  But I will have to agree with the other guy and say that you don't have to be a gigging musician to be a source of credible opinion.

Offline PRSMan

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2007, 12:40:08 PM »
the way of life is this:  who would you ask for fishing advice?  the hobbyist fisherman who has the best tools money can buy and goes out to fish around 2x a year... or the professional fisherman, who has the [gooey brown stuff] equipment  but does it every day of his life? :-)

do you guys remember the movie "revenge of the nerds"?  there's this one scene where the jock's girlfriend just finished having sex with the lead nerd... and she didn't know it was him because she was blindfolded (i think).  when she opened her eyes and saw it was him, she smiled and said that she didn't know that nerds were so good at having sex, and that he was actually better than the jock.  the nerd says something like "well, we might not do it all the time, but we think about it all the time".

personally, i'd ask both for their opinion.  there's an upside to asking the hobbyist since he's probably done a lot of research, learned from talking shop with other hobbyists, etc.  his knowledge though hasn't been curbed/fine-tuned by experience but still there's knowledge to tap.  as for the professional, while he has experience to back up whatever he says, you run the risk of hearing insight from a guy who may have developed a lot of bad habits through the years and just refuses to change them.  not every seasoned veteran is open to new ideas, and you might get stuck with old tricks that may not work well in the new world.

Offline Phil

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2007, 01:54:51 PM »
Alex -- I mean no offense... but you are nowhere near the caliber of a Cliff Cultreri who people can or should really listen to.  I'm sure your passion about this has made you very knowledgeable through the years... but don't get upset if people hesitate to believe you because you're still a nobody in many people's eyes. 
..... he feels like he's in the same league with him .... is that wrong? nope... but anybody can dream, right? .... fairy god mother?
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Offline markflo

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2007, 02:45:11 PM »
if you choose to be a "critic" of any sort...

you gotta have street cred...

you guys think firemodel has any street cred?

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt. - Abraham Lincoln

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2007, 03:01:43 PM »
I personally find no fault in acknowledging the masters' ideas.  I do this myself when I research on recording methods.  Of course, "name-dropping" can be a good way to convince an artist on how to record their music so there is a little "credibility" with regard to the choice method.  Is there a problem when I say "Jimmy Page said DISTANCE = DEPTH" so if you want that big band drum sound, definitely mike your kit with distance miking.  Of course, that necessitates determining if the music calls for that setup. 

The same thing applies to any fountain of knowledge. 

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2007, 03:05:20 PM »
Bluenote,

Let me remind you that skunky was the one who said that the Uberschall would not do well for jazz.  Now, I don't know how many dudes have tried an actual uberschall everyday of their lives and I am saying that its clean channel will do well for jazz.  And let me point out that you don't have one and yet you insinuate that I cannot say if its suitable for jazz just because I cannot play jazz? 

Ahem I did not say the Uber sucks for jazz.  I just said I would prefer something else if I would play jazz.  Of course, playing Jazz guitar, in its most basic form, requires clean sounds, with high headroom.  And the Uber does have tons of headroom.  I just do not know personally how an Uber can deliver the sweet mids of a Jazz guitar.  These amps are voiced for metal, a bit loose, so it might be possible that they can work well for Jazz boxes.

Offline glassjaw_jc

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Re: The Right Amp
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2007, 03:10:45 PM »
Just believe who you trust.
Surf's Up!