hulika

Author Topic: Home recording  (Read 27804 times)

Offline KitC

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #125 on: November 05, 2006, 12:07:07 PM »
ojotek65,

I was trying to send this last night but the site seemed to hang on me:

[homer simpson voice]Hmmm... chocolates.... [/homer simpson voice]

There are several ways/stages to achieve what you want with pc recording, pero try to imagine how you want to achieve it. With the Creative/FCA202, you only have 2-channel (stereo) input; you will use your mixer to submix everything into the soundcard. You lose mixing flexibility. Kung baga, you're using the computer merely as a stereo recorder and nothing else. You will have to get the mix right in the mixer pa lang.

The next step up is a 4-channel interface like the M-Audio Delta 44. Pair this with a 4-bus mixer to achieve reasonable instrument separation. If your mixer has something like an Alt 3/4 bus, you can bus a stereo submix of the drums for better mixing flexibility and control. Even better if your mixer has direct outs so you can use it's mic preamps especially if the soundcard only accepts line level inputs.

The Emu 1212m was suggested, but in it's standard setup, it only has 2-channel analog inputs and outputs; the rest of the I/O are digital. The beauty of the 1212 is that you can expand it with a Behringer ADA8000 which gives you 8 additional analog I/O via ADAT lightpipe. That means when expanded, you get up to 10 analog inputs and outputs. Pair the 1212 with the Emu Audiodock and ADA8000, you can get as much as 16 analog I/O! You can practically dispense with a mixer in this configuration. Adding the Audiodock turns the 1212 into an 1820.

The M-Audio Delta 1010LT gives 8 analog, line-level inputs and outputs; very useful if your mixer has direct outs per channel. You then use the mixer as a preamp frontend for your soundcard. You also get the added advantage of using the mixer as a patchbay because mabubugbog lang ang mga connectors ng soundcard if you keep on connecting and disconnecting your cables.

As you can see, multi-input soundcards are the way to go if you want to track several instruments simultaneously. Drums, especially, use a minimum of 3-4 mics if you want adequate mixing control. Add to that guitars, keyboards, and vocal mics and you will easily use up 8 channels of inputs.

I hope this helps you with your soundcard deliberation.
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Offline KitC

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #126 on: November 05, 2006, 12:28:24 PM »
sir san niyo ginagamit ang mga MIDI devices ninyo? or how does it help you in your recording? I'm quite new to MIDI. just bought an M-Audio MIDI to USB converter. :)

Midi isn't just about triggering notes on keyboards although that's how most of us got started on midi. For me personally, it was recording a keyboard performance then being able to tweak it and remove the 'bad' notes. From there, I got into pc sequencing then parameter automation, especially with effects. I planning on getting a BCF2000 and BCR2000 so I can have moving faders and realtime parameter tweaking (with real knobs).
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Offline notEworthy27

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #127 on: November 05, 2006, 03:35:09 PM »
sir, what do you mean by parameter automation? how will the yamaha P-80 help me in recording besides having to use it to record MIDI tracks?
Music is an art of expressing one's self...

Offline KitC

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #128 on: November 05, 2006, 06:12:42 PM »
sir, what do you mean by parameter automation? how will the yamaha P-80 help me in recording besides having to use it to record MIDI tracks?

Let's look at what your P80 can do in terms of midi.

First of all, it's an 88-key note-entry device. You can have up to 2 tracks with it's built-in sequencer, each track can have it's own midi channel and patch (voice) assignment. Unfortunately, it lacks some essentials to make it a good controller like pitch and modulation wheels, aftertouch, and a data slider - it's these additional controls that open up midi to additional control. That's why synthesizers often have these controls; a few even have knobs and sliders to control additional parameters.

Midi isn't just notes. It's also bending notes with the pitch wheel, adding some vibrato with the mod wheel - use can even use the mod wheel to control other parameters besides vibrato. Dig in with enough pressure on the key bed to activate aftertouch (if your keyboard supports it) for opening up a filter, or whatever aftertouch is assigned to. If you have a controller keyboard with knobs, you can sweep a filter with resonance for those trance sweeps, or you can use those same knobs to control reverb amount and reverb time, how much chorus is added during a solo... whatever parameter is open to you.

If you have Sonar (or Cubase; Logic Pro Audio/Digital Performer if you're on a Mac), load a softsynth like TTS-1. Use the P80 for note entry, or draw in notes with a mouse. Next, try to draw in automation; in Sonar, open up the piano roll view (PRV) for the midi tracks you recorded and in the velocity window below, draw a line thru the velocities shown. You can now alter velocities of each individual note, aside from that, you can alter the length of the note. Now, change the velocity view into something like reverb (CC#91), and draw a line in the velocity/controller window. Now playback the track. You should hear velocities and reverb changing as the track is played. Intriguing, isn't it? Now imagine tweaking every single parameter open to you; the possibilities then become endless.

Let's face it, though. Without additional controls at your disposal, the P80 only becomes a note entry device. You will need a different controller or keyboard that allows you to control these parameters in realtime. Most keyboard midi controllers now come with these additional knobs. sliders and wheels. If you don't need a keyboard, you can always get an alternative controller such as the Behringer BCR-2000 which contains 32 rotary encoders! Pair this wih a DAW like Sonar, Cubase or Nuendo, and open up a whole new world of midi.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2006, 11:28:25 AM by KitC »
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Offline starfugger

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #129 on: November 06, 2006, 10:12:27 AM »
thank you KitC for taking the time to explain this to us as simply as possible :)  im also in the market for a keyboard controller these days.
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Offline BAMF

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #130 on: November 06, 2006, 10:25:52 AM »
Yo Haze !

Behringer has very affordable MIDI controllers. I've been looking to their stuff recently and already bought an LDC and a tube mic preamp. Mukhang pati instrument condensers, I'll get a couple from them as well for my low-end home recording studio.

Pati yung compressor nila, "RAIN" hehehehe and only costs around 7k.

Grabe. No wonder people in the audio industry want to assasinate Uli Behringer.
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
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Offline KitC

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #131 on: November 06, 2006, 11:44:57 AM »
Hazel,

It seems Behringer includes the UCA202 whenever you buy the UMX 61-key controller. I tried the feel over at Joint Venture and it was ok for a synth action. No aftertouch, though. It would be nice if Uli released a 61-, 76- or 88-key piano action controller. So far, only Fatar has released a 49-key piano action keyboard (Studiologic VMK-149) but..., you guessed it, no distro here.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline notEworthy27

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #132 on: November 06, 2006, 01:00:25 PM »
sir KitC thank you so much for explaining it so simply. :) Looks like I'm off to getting Behringer's rotary controllers and sliders. :) sir meron po ba kayong mga MIDI files na pwede kong marinig? Para ma-inspire ako gumawa. :)
Music is an art of expressing one's self...

Offline KitC

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #133 on: November 06, 2006, 01:48:45 PM »
I have several midi files of my own make; the best ones are usually orchestral and/or very melodic. Unfortunately, the best projects are also in sonar or cubase format, such as this project I made, Toto's I Won't Hold You Back:



PM me your email addy and I'll email you a midi example. Unfortunately, because of the complexity of the above file, it cannot exist in plain midi format.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline starfugger

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #134 on: November 06, 2006, 07:14:59 PM »
Hazel,

It seems Behringer includes the UCA202 whenever you buy the UMX 61-key controller. I tried the feel over at Joint Venture and it was ok for a synth action. No aftertouch, though. It would be nice if Uli released a 61-, 76- or 88-key piano action controller. So far, only Fatar has released a 49-key piano action keyboard (Studiologic VMK-149) but..., you guessed it, no distro here.

didn't know that was the uca202. i was under the impression that it was an ordinary usb sound card.  wow, that's a fantastic deal. i did call joint venture but sadly they don't have any stocks of the umx 61 left.  we checked it out at electronic depot and the feel is ok. the keys are "heavier" and wider than the m-audio stuff.  it has a more resistant feel than your usual korg keyboard.  it also has several knobs incorporated in the controller but i think one has to map that properly in her DAW app for the knobs to do exactly what the user intends ... which could be a daunting task for beginners like me.  Kit, im also looking into the Behringer BCA 2000 for dedicated plug-in control but i don't know if it can co-exist with my tascam us-2400.  i think someone over at the uad forums had made it work perfectly under cubase ... my only problem is that it might clash with my existing fader controller. in any case, nowie of electronic depot has given me a money-back guarantee in case i decide to get one and fail to make it work.  cool.

BAMF hey!  long time no hear.  good luck with the studio setup. exciting yan! i remember how it felt when i was still researching and putting the old studio together.  suggesttion lang, u might wanna look into the dbx and ART tube mic preamps too.  i think they cost just as much as the behris.  my ART tube MP has served me well over the years .. and yes it does sound FAT, the tube is working alright ;)



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Offline notEworthy27

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #135 on: November 06, 2006, 10:47:20 PM »
thanks again!!! you've got PM KitC. :)

sir BAMF, how do you find behringer's tube mic preamps?
Music is an art of expressing one's self...

Offline voidmain

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #136 on: March 06, 2007, 09:44:31 AM »
Nag-start pala ako nitong thread na to??? Sorry tagal kong hindi na-check :-P

Eniweis, thanks to all who replied. Working on collecting my gear now.
Thanks po uli :-D
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
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Offline bindoy

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #137 on: March 06, 2007, 10:34:27 AM »
peace sir voidmain...post nyo naman ung gearlist nyo na ngyon..ngatz.gbu
ROCK WITH GOD!!!

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Offline voidmain

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Re: Home recording
« Reply #138 on: March 06, 2007, 01:55:27 PM »
Haha, wala pa po.

Budget at guitar pedals muna tinatrabaho ko e. :-D

Ang hirap ng walang budget T_T
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:20