What is the point of having a high-end DAW...

[skunkyfunk]

... if most of the recording studio clients don't even have vast gear choices such as drum kits, cymbals, guitars, guitar amps, basses, bass amps, mics, etc.?

Say you have a brand new PT HD3 Accel system you brag about, and some band comes in with inferior equipment.  If they sound like moist ass, they'll sound like moist ass on "tape".  

I think the better solution in this country is giving the artists more gear to choose from.  They can't tell the difference between a Protools HD system and an M-Audio Delta system.  They don't care about your Benchmark converters.  They don't care about your SE Electronics or Neumann mics.  Moreso your Genelec Monitors...

They just want more tonal options that they can record decently.  And with all the  DI boxes and limited amps in the studio, everyone tends to sound the same.  Same thing goes for drum kits.  Same drums, same heads, same cymbals, same mics = almost the same sounds.  So the playing does not get that much individuality boost...

[balta]

i hear you brother! but in comes the reason that we are third world and we earn like third world thus our equipment is limited to being third world. How i wish i could go to a studio and be there for a month and have a guitar tech help me choose my guitar sound for an album with an array of guitars, amps, cabinets, effects to choose one like those from documentaries of bands in their studios ....

[KitC]

I have personally seen a person take a crappy drumset and make it sound like a Tama Rockstar. Then there's the 6K strat copy thread in the guitar forum. I've also read of a band that uses a crappy old (probably even broken) RCA mic on their singer's lead vocals - that's the industrial band Garbage and it's Shirley Manson's voice that's going into that crappy mic.

We can all have the greatest gear in the world and still sound like crap, or 'moist ass' as you prefer to say. You can have the cheapest gear in the world but it shouldn't prevent you from getting YOUR sound. That's part of the problem, a lot of us spend so much time emulating our heroes that we don't spend enough time developing ourselves, our tastes, OUR sound. The gear is only a means to an end and I think that if you only need expensive gear to become world class, then you're losing sight of what you should really be doing... developing your own identity.

[mariuo]

hehe reminds me of billy corgans crappy guitar

[KitC]

hehe reminds me of billy corgans crappy guitar

Anyone remember the B-52's live video of Rock Lobster? The guy was playing on 4 strings for Christ's sake! And I don't remember seeing a bass guitar. Now THAT was identity.

[BALDO]

yes yes yes..AMEN!!!  i remember the b 52's... anyway it is really a bad habit of ALWAYS IMITATING someone especially in music to achieve identity. not that we haven't imitated someone else before but in order to be at par with musicians all over the world, WE HAVE TO BE ORIGINAL..ok repeat after me..LETS BE ORIGINAL.. lets not chase that dream to be the best van halen copy, whitney or mariah copycat..even if we succeed, we will still be a COPY.. we want to be known for being US--ORIGINAL..look at those German groups.( proclaimers/ 99 luftballoons, Scorpions).damn they don't even pronounce English the way our singers do.. but they became popular because they were ORIGINALS..  even if some of those bands SUCKED but still they had airplay, they had originality.. SO LETS ALL WORK TOGETHER..LETS BE ORIGINAL...

[BALDO]

Just to add..  Kurt Cobain ( God rest his soul) doesn't play the best guitar either..but hey he changed the way Rock and Roll is played - adding more dimensions to it..  

[skunkyfunk]

Inferiority doesn't mean cheap.  But to a certain extent, decent equipment fall under a certain price cutoff.

Can an average person hear the difference between a Sabian HHX Ride and an AA Ride?  Probably no.  But their prices vary greatly.  But if you would compare a Sabian AA Ride and a Zildjian Scimitar Ride, the difference is very noticeable.  So that is where the price factor comes in... working at a minimum to make things work.  You don't need to buy uber expensive gear to get the best sounds.  But then again, to walk in with a bad guitar with bad intonation with buzzing frets and expecting to sound like Steve Vai is ridiculous.

Probably the main problem with some artists is that they don't even know what sound they want, because they don't get immersed to decent equipment.

[starfugger]

musicians have to be educated about what is possible and what is not possible to attain in the studio when they walk in.  youre right skunkyfunk, they dont care about hd3 or neuman or what not.  that is why i think it is our job to care about these things. with a limited  budget, i think most studio owners focus more on the recording equipment than the instruments, which, undeniably, are SOURCE of the signal. this is mainly because they expect the clients to more or less have the equipment they need, especially if these clients are professionals and/or rockstars (they obviously are in the position to make exuberant purchases). but like balta said, we have third world budgets, and therefore have to set our priorities.  question is, do we prioritize instruments and buy sub par studio equipment, or vice versa?  i think the choices of instruments, amplifiers, and effects out there will make it very difficult for us to create that truly versatile setup.  moreso, it might turn out to be more expensive than concentrating on just studio equipment alone.  it is also my dream to have the basics covered at least.  an ibanez guitar, a US fender strat, a les paul, a dual rectifier, a vox ac 30, fender twin reverb, and around 20 pedals.  thats just the guitar rig alone (and a humble one at that considering that this does not cover all playing styles and recording needs).  that alone will cost a couple of hundred thousand bucks already.  the drums? i dream of having a tama artstar in addition to my current setup, remo skins replaced every 6 moths, a slew of high end cymbals.  same for the bass. etc.  this could lead to  serious GAS attack if i dwell too much on it.  so far this kind of setup is still a few years out of my reach.  but there are gains, and patience pays off somehow.

now here's a practical solution.  i'll concentrate on the recording gear for now, and advise the musicians to call up as many friends as possible, borrow and beg for the stuff their sound requires.   otherwise, scout for studios that actually have the instruments they need to attain their sound.  they shouldn't be afraid to divide the work among different studio's.  say if studio A has the drums they seek then do the drum tracks in studio A.  then move to studio B for that guitar rig they so lust after.  keep at it until they finish their project.  this kind of approach might also help them discern which studio equipment suits their taste best.  

my 2 centavos.

[abyssinianson]

the bottom line is, one could have the best stuff in the world but if you are stuck with what you have then all you have to do, no, all you MUST do is make the best of things and try what potential you can maximize with your gear.

i started with pretty basic gear myself but I could not have learned a lot had I not pushed my little Creative SoundBlaster 5.1 to the most that it could offer my fledgling little DAW. Sure, it ain't no HD system but, heck, I didn't know better and I sure as heck didn't know top notch gear was going to eventually cost me more than I had ever imagined. Your gear grows with your budget and your needs.

[Boddhisattva]

And I thought that producers take care of "producing" the instruments that will make a certain band or piece of music sound unique. When I read music mags, it seems to me that producers are in charge and are picky over the music they are going to produce. Like if he wants to have a Steinway sound, he'll find ways to rent it and bring it to the studio. If he wants to setup in a church to get that reverb feeling, then he's the one going to do it (I remember Joe Jackson recording in a Church in one of his albums)

[abyssinianson]

of course, as a producer it is your responsibility as a paid professional to produce the soound of an album and design its sonic approach in the context of the band you are working with.