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Author Topic: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance  (Read 574 times)

Offline jm the mute

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Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« on: February 17, 2017, 04:18:17 PM »
some amps have these controls. is there a difference or is there a redundance?

Is the Presence controlling the same frequencies as the Treble knob? same with Resonance & Bass?

yortots


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Online r_chino18

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 04:40:12 PM »
Yes, there is a difference. Two of my amps have the usual B-M-T controls, and also a Presence control.

Technical aspects aside, here's what I noticed....

As I turn up the Presence, I notice my sound gets "glassier" and more up front but different from what the treble does if I turn it up. As I turn the Presence down, my overall sound gets somewhat darker and "kulob".

Depending on my mood, I find the Presence control to be very helpful. With a strat/tele, I turn up my Presence to have more punch and snap and glass to my sound (while keeping the EQ untouched). Whenever I get my LP and play heavier tunes, I roll my Presence down to get a darker and more "evil" tone (still keeping the EQ untouched). Pero when I'm on my 80s glam mood, I like to keep the Presence at noon or just a touch up to get a good sizzle and bite for my high gain tones.

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Offline jm the mute

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 04:47:25 PM »
Yes, there is a difference. Two of my amps have the usual B-M-T controls, and also a Presence control.

Technical aspects aside, here's what I noticed....

As I turn up the Presence, I notice my sound gets "glassier" and more up front but different from what the treble does if I turn it up. As I turn the Presence down, my overall sound gets somewhat darker and "kulob".

Depending on my mood, I find the Presence control to be very helpful. With a strat/tele, I turn up my Presence to have more punch and snap and glass to my sound (while keeping the EQ untouched). Whenever I get my LP and play heavier tunes, I roll my Presence down to get a darker and more "evil" tone (still keeping the EQ untouched). Pero when I'm on my 80s glam mood, I like to keep the Presence at noon or just a touch up to get a good sizzle and bite for my high gain tones.

what is "glass" compared to treble?
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Online Super BisDak

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2017, 04:56:07 PM »
THIS might be of help.
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Offline jm the mute

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2017, 05:04:52 PM »
THIS might be of help.

hmmm...on my amp, for every amount of treble they I remove, it seems that I could gain it back by adding presence...so isn't it redundant? I know, the link said that the presence/resonance controls the hig/low frequencies via phase cancellation. that goes on "electronically" pero isn't the end result the same (controlling the EQ)? if it is, may difference ba yung frequencies na kinocontrol nila?

really wanna understand this so I can get the most out of these additional controls (because I usually bypass them)
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Offline x_taxi

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 05:15:08 PM »
hmmm...on my amp, for every amount of treble they I remove, it seems that I could gain it back by adding presence...so isn't it redundant? I know, the link said that the presence/resonance controls the hig/low frequencies via phase cancellation. that goes on "electronically" pero isn't the end result the same (controlling the EQ)? if it is, may difference ba yung frequencies na kinocontrol nila?

really wanna understand this so I can get the most out of these additional controls (because I usually bypass them)

Its redundant if you bypass it. Or if you feel you dont need it.

However for others like myself, I use it to fine tune the tone. Kasi the eq work sa preamp. Yun presence & resonance work sa poweramp.
Di ba nagbabago yun tone depende sa saturation sa preamp tsaka yun saturation naman sa poweramp? Its more noticeable sa mga amps
where you involve the power amp tube sa tone mo. Think of them as fine tuners depende sa volume levels ng amp mo.
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Online xaeroblade

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 05:30:16 PM »
Based on my experience the presence gives extra character to the tone. As r_chino18 mentioned, higher presence give the tone a brighter/crisper sound while on lower setting it does provide a darker/fuzzier feel. A way of putting it would be a boost/cut to the high/low frequencies, in a way kinda like an EQ pedal in front of your drive pedal if that makes sense.
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Offline titser_marco

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 06:55:36 PM »


some amps have these controls. is there a difference or is there a redundance?

Is the Presence controlling the same frequencies as the Treble knob? same with Resonance & Bass?

yortots

Not exactly. While it can be designed in such a way that the presence knob affects the same frequency range as the treble knob, it doesn't quite function in the same way since presence is essentially band-limited negative feedback (in most tube amplifiers anyway).

As for resonance, I've read that it's closer to a presence knob from a circuit standpoint, but I haven't implemented a resonance knob in any of my projects. I think there is also a "presonance" control I've seen in some schematics as well, and just like the two, are essentially band limited negative feedback controls.

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Online r_chino18

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 07:18:25 PM »
what is "glass" compared to treble?

Parang ibang klaseng high frequencies yung dinadagdag (or binabawas) ng Presence as compared sa Treble, at least from my amps.

Ang dating sakin, halimbawa we're talking about mic placements... When the mic is directly in front of the speaker's center, that (to me) sounds like my Presence when turned up. Then as you go off axis on the mic's placement, parang ganun ang dating when you roll down the Presence. I'm not sure if it makes any sense. Haha.

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Online nicoyow

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 09:26:01 PM »
IMHO, Presence control makes your high frequency much clear. The best reason why I love Mark V's shredhead is because of the presence knob. Natatanggal nya ung muddy effect ng drive pag sobrang taas na ng gain mo.

Same way as the oldies Marshall amps. May Presence knob din db if I'm not mistaken.

I'm no expert about this, I just vary my sound with my own ears.  :mrgreen:
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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 11:39:43 PM »
Hmmm from what I've read before Treble keeps track of the high frequencies of the preamp and then Presence targets more the higher (think almost-cymbal freq) frequencies in the power amp section.

From my experience naman, I happen to like dark toned eq settings so very sparingly lang paggamit ko sa presence since too much of it makes it more shrill to my ears while too much treble makes the sound too thin.

Offline jm the mute

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2017, 02:52:44 PM »
Its redundant if you bypass it. Or if you feel you dont need it.

However for others like myself, I use it to fine tune the tone. Kasi the eq work sa preamp. Yun presence & resonance work sa poweramp.
Di ba nagbabago yun tone depende sa saturation sa preamp tsaka yun saturation naman sa poweramp? Its more noticeable sa mga amps
where you involve the power amp tube sa tone mo. Think of them as fine tuners depende sa volume levels ng amp mo.

i'll try to listen mostly sa effect niya with higher volume...kasi the only instance that I tried to tweak it is at home with low volume (power amp not really working hard)

on the few gigs I brought this specific amp, I've always bypassed the resonance & presence controls. I figured, less stuff in the circuit would mean a more direct/pure tone. eh kaso bored na ako...kaya im trying to figure out what these controls really do.  im using a siochi gt custom head btw
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Offline x_taxi

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2017, 03:07:41 PM »
i'll try to listen mostly sa effect niya with higher volume...kasi the only instance that I tried to tweak it is at home with low volume (power amp not really working hard)

on the few gigs I brought this specific amp, I've always bypassed the resonance & presence controls. I figured, less stuff in the circuit would mean a more direct/pure tone. eh kaso bored na ako...kaya im trying to figure out what these controls really do.  im using a siochi gt custom head btw

Cool bro! A real deal boutique amp. Which circuit did siochi base his design? Tube type? Interestin to know how volume levels affect his amp tone.
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Offline jm the mute

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 03:25:23 PM »
Cool bro! A real deal boutique amp. Which circuit did siochi base his design? Tube type? Interestin to know how volume levels affect his amp tone.

sabi niya soldano based daw. the clean channel is twin reverb based daw. I've tried it a few times...cranking the master volume for power amp distortion. ok naman. still sounds how it should in a heavy rock context. ayoko lang maluma agad yung power tubes hehe
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Offline x_taxi

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2017, 12:03:21 PM »
sabi niya soldano based daw. the clean channel is twin reverb based daw. I've tried it a few times...cranking the master volume for power amp distortion. ok naman. still sounds how it should in a heavy rock context. ayoko lang maluma agad yung power tubes hehe

Good to know its workin for you as it should. Maganda yun design ng circuit for your needs. Its one of those things na nice to know its there when you need it. Pero ok lang kahit wala. Hahaha! If that makes any sense.

Yun nga lang. Tubes are consummables. Pero sulit yan bro! I never use solid states anymore, kahit modellers. More for the feel than anythin else.
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Offline rad_12

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2017, 06:13:32 AM »
nice topic, try ko paglaruan presence knob ng shred head ko pala din

Online philaxeman

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Re: Treble & Presence, Bass & Resonance
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2017, 10:55:48 AM »
Hi to all.

Circuit-wise, the TMB controls works/placed in the preamp section of an amp while the Presence and Resonance control is a negative feedback signal taken from the speaker output.

Amp builder use or employ negative feedback to tame/control the overall output signal of the amp.
Contrary to this, modern amps uses negative feedback(especially the Resonance control) to release the beast out of the amp.
IMO, Peavey 5150 is the first modern amp to include a Resonance control while Mesa Boogie Rectos have fixed resistor/capacitor values for the resonance. 
More info on negative feedback: http://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/what-is-negative-feedback



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