TALK @ PhilMusic.com - The Online Home of the Pinoy Musician
The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: firemodel55 on August 06, 2007, 09:53:46 PM
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Because their last priority is sound!!!
Upon opening the latest Guitar World magazine I was shocked to learn that Steve Vai uses a Fender amp for his clean sounds. What happened to 3 years ago when he promoted his Carvin Legacy as IT in terms of clean and distortion? Remember that he was downgrading from a Bogner XTC. Then he goes on to say in the video that Legacy combos are still great amps but the Fender adds a new dimension to his sound. Furthermore, he goes to say that he is planning to design a Carvin Legacy 2 with an additional channel. What the...? Why didn't he stick to the XTC in the first place which already had 3 channels built in and with some minor tweaking from Rheinhold would actually turn any Carvin amp to crap? Regardless of sound qualify, my point is that Artists should qualify that they sound the way the do because of the TOTAL system and not because of one particular component and that they give endorsement at that SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME ONLY. Look at his Gear Diagram in the latest Guitar World and you will understand that it ain't only because of his Carvin Legacy.
Now a month before that, I was reading the Eddie Van Halen Issue and he says that the EVH III is his best amp to date. And yet, why the hell didn't he design the 5150 to sound as good as the EVH III? I bought one Peavey 5150 head and good riddance. I had enough sense to realize that it sounded inferior to the amp that it was copying. So,stay tuned for EVH XX? Now for all I care, it could be the best sounding amp head for US$2,000 but my point is that when will artists finally deliver sincere goods that have no attachments of endorsement deals and free equipment and when will they stop putting their names on amps, effects and guitars that they know they will outgrow in the future. The number 1 offender is Fender which started this and Gibson as a close number 2. PRS is also starting to this today. By the way, I have heard more crappy sounding Santana USA guitars than good sounding ones. Fender YJM has its lastest incarnation now which according to a close YJM fan friend of mine who was able to test 4 new models a few weeks ago still sounded like crap compared to the older YJMs.
Back to Steve Vai, hasn't everybody wondered why after 20 years of JEM production Ibanez still cannot come up with JEM guitars to beat EVO and FLO? The answer is because wood is too variable to control and Steve Vai says this in the guitar world video. In short, out of the thousands of JEMS produced, only BO was added and the rest of the guitars are substandard vis - a -vis EVO and FLO. Because if it sounded any better, Ibanez would send it first to Steve Vai instead of you. By the way, I have yet to hear an Ibanez that sounds really killer.
Take a good look at Joe Satriani. I have all his DVDs and I play them back across a good hi fi system, not the high end ones like KRELL but definitely not your plain vanilla asian or japanese sound system. When I put in his latest DVD with his signature JSX Peavey Amps, I was floored because I never remembered hearing Joe sound so NGONGO. His pick attack was missing in his lead runs. His highs sounded harsh. Though I know that it was only a DVD and it will be a different experience live I knew I was living with much better gear everyday of my life.
Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone. Artist agenda is not so clear. They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone. Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.
And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...
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change is constant. tone is always evolving.
you also forgot to mention that carvin is building a new amp for steve vai and ibanez is building a new distortion pedal for him also.
Back to Steve Vai, hasn't everybody wondered why after 20 years of JEM production Ibanez still cannot come up with JEM guitars to beat EVO and FLO?
vai just can't give up evo and flo. it's too emotional for vai and he believes that those guitars are the best sounding guitars in the world.
Now a month before that, I was reading the Eddie Van Halen Issue and he says that the EVH III is his best amp to date.
yun ang matindi. dun sa interview niya sinabi niya na yung bagong 5150 amp pwedeng iwan ng naka-"on" (not standby) for months and it will not blow up and still sound great. i think it's a ridiculous claim.
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Randy,
So why endorse if you know you will change sound and taste? And thats the irony of being a paid artist if you know that you will change sound and taste. You should NOT endorse and this was my point.
I mentioned that the new Legacy will be three channel.
Vai cannot give up because Ibanez cannot as yet at this point in time produce something better sounding than EVO or FLO. I know lots of guys who keep guitars because of sentimental reasons but will gladly use a better sounding guitar that does not have any sentimental reason. Its this simple, for a make or brake important gig in your life, would you rather use a sentimental guitar or a killer sounding one? Imagine that Steve Vai has to give a daily dose of killer sounding shows, do you think that sentiment is important to him? Look at it, he now has BO and I bet that it has less sentiment than EVO and FLO. Not bad for ibanez, 3 great sounding JEMS out of 30,000 produced in the last 20 years?
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For me it's ok to endorse don't just make claims like "THIS IS THE GREATEST SOUNDING AMP IN HISTORY!" or " THIS WILL BE MY AMP FOREVER!" or eddie's saying "I'm glad i'm with a company that finally gets it!"
Eddie, if that's true, why did you say 13 or so years ago about the musicman you had ernie ball make "The last guitar i played was made for me. I designed this one" :|
What sounds great for you may sound awful for someone else. I love EJ's tone and its buttery smoothness but to a friend of mine, it's a reverb wash. I like gambale's tone for its quirkyness and similarity to that quality you get when a strat's pickup selector is at 2 or 4 position. But someone else just said it's a wussy ass jazz-rock tone. Some people like Kranks for its metalness. Others say it's too much of a 1 trick pony. Some like cornfords for their roundness and warmth and being a perfect "shredder amp". Others criticize it as lacking edge.
It's all in the ear of the one listening. There is no "best", just what the listener likes most. That's why we have more than 1 genre, more than one kind of OD, more than one kind of guitar and amp. :-D
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Welcome back Alex / oasgomez!
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WB sir alex :lol:
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Well, this is interesting, to say the least. :lol:
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Lahed,
There are some gear that excel in what they do that no one can deny. And there are properties in common across great sounding equipment that people will notice across all genres. My point with eddie and the rest is that they don't endorse the best there is on the field because the best cannot afford to pay them to endorse.
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Though there are those who miss some of my posts, I just really had to get this topic off my chest because when I try out the stuff that these artists endorse, it really is no big deal. I just want to speak out for guys like me who have been duped at one point in their life into believing an artist who suddenly changes his brand or upgrades his current model. And this is my short list of artist who I think have the lowest credibility when it comes to endorsements:
1. EVH for being a whore -- Ernie Ball then Peavey then Charvel, Peavey Amp then Fender Amp
2. Dave Mustaine -- Jackson then ESP then Dean
3. Dimebag -- Dean to Washburn then back to Dean, Randall Amps to Krank
And please dont tell me that these guys changed preferences because EVH has remained a bolt on dude with a Floyd and Humbucker guy. His EVH III should sound like his brown sound Peavey 5150.
Dave Mustaine guitars still look like Flying Vs in General. Hard to differentiate there difference in sound from one brand to another
Dimebags guitars are still the same shape with the same brand of pickups and are all equipped with Floyds. And I bet the krank was designed to have at least one definitive sound of the Randall.
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well, its all because of the money really.
i mean, when they have a lifestyle that burns out about 100K dollars a day... every bit of endorsement deal they could squeeze out is a good thing for them.
honestly, in my state now, i tend to hate ibanez guitars... but if ibanez would call me up and ask me to play a Gio or something in exchange for 10 guitars and money for the endorsement... hell, id bite it man! ... i think a lot of us would ... thats free guitars, and eventhough its crap, you can always change its PUPs and hardware, and you wont even spend that much money. however, id still not play them on recording or something... just for live use i guess where tone isnt subjected to a microscope.
if i was a tycoon and i have my passive income doing it for me... hell, id refuse that deal. its just... i dont think a lot of us are tycoons. and i trust the real fans know the real gear i use.
the post has a point though... i stopped believing in dimebag's ads after i saw him endorese a lot of gear. i avoid products that use artists to advertise stuff... namely: ibanez, dean (especially DEAN!), digitech.
im good with: MXR (the dime and zakk dirt boxes), pearl (the joey jordison stuff), marshall (who are they using now?), those are all i could remember for now.
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i think its about time oas came back to philmusic,
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Welcome back Alex / oasgomez!
Is this real or am i dreaming?!
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Hehehe.
Guys, guys, guys.... Actually, rule #1 in this whole game is, has always been, and always will be "trust your own ears" (and fingers, as the case may be).
Really no need to get worked up about it. Just a few dudes who either like what they hear or getting paid to sell something. Par for the course. No biggie. :wink:
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Dimebag got stuck in a lot of crummy endorsement deals, yes. But if certain allegations are to be believed, one of his former managers was the one who fed him to the sharks. He went back to playing Dean guitars after he kicked that manager out. Too bad he didn't do it sooner.
1. EVH for being a whore -- Ernie Ball then Peavey then Charvel, Peavey Amp then Fender Amp
2. Dave Mustaine -- Jackson then ESP then Dean
3. Dimebag -- Dean to Washburn then back to Dean, Randall Amps to Krank
I'll agree with #1, and to some extent, #3. But Mustaine... I don't know. I think he's been careful about endorsements so far. Besides, whoever said his goal with Dean was to create a totally different looking guitar? He's always loved V's and there's no point in hiding that just for the sake of having something different.
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Al,
By the way, I love all of Mustaine's Vs. But I guess, it all stops there with the looks.
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Its this simple, for a make or brake important gig in your life, would you rather use a sentimental guitar or a killer sounding one?
ok let's put it this way. sa EBs na lang or sa mga Tone Parties. If i would bring my guitar that I've been using for years and compare it to someone else's killer sounding guitar. someone may say that my guitar doesn't stand up to the other. but should i care? personally i don't. acceptance is a time consuming process.
personally i have mixed emotions with endorsements. i always try to research and compare them with other brands before i buy one. i have to admit i'm a nuno fanatic and i will buy his guitars because i've been swept away by his pounding tone during his clinic in yupangco years back.
as for endorsements in general, we should let the artist do their thing. it's up to us if we will take the bait or not.
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Also, I forgot to mention that Wayne Charvel still makes guitars under Wayne Guitars. If Eddie was such a friend, he could actually go back a design a guitar with Wayne instead of hanging around with a Fender owned Charvel name. But I guess as mentioned here, money takes predominance over tone.
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Randy,
Peace. If a credible and authorative source says your age old lovable guitar sucks then its time to look for a better sounding guitar. This is exactly how Cesar Diaz got to be SRVs tech by saying that he sucked and from then on SRV sounded better at least thats what SRV says.
I used to have an N4 Padauk and up to today I still have to find a great sounding N4.
Its OK if you have mixed feelings after all there are some great sounding signatures out there but what bothers me is that if the guitar manufacturer cannot guarantee consistency how can an artist endorsement on a guitar guarantee that unless he personally QAs each one. Also, if artists change taste from time to time how can they can be credible endorsers for amps and effects? Case in point, I was fortunate enough to test two ESP Custom Shop Alex Laiho Vs. One in white and one in black. Both had that stupid certificate but both sounded different. One sounded heavenly and will kill even the most toneful guitars by Fender and Gibson despite its Floyd while the other sounded like absolute crap that even a Korean guitar can beat. So, why did alex laiho sign both certificates? I honestly dont know. By the way I wanted to go back for the white Laiho because it had the best vibrato technique sound ever not only on a drive setting but also on a clean setting but somebody bought it already.
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If someone says your tone sucks, listen to it again. If you're still satisfied with it, then why change it. And who could that authorittive and credible source be? He should learn how to appreciate someone else's tone.
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Think of the bigger picture. Its all about the big guys with cash, money, REPUTATION plus the market, consumerism and the downright survival of the fittest even if that means robbing and pillaging the next generation or just rehashing your next product line.
Most artists are enterpreneurs as well and YES they manipulate the product their tied with by using their name.
Seriously.......do you really believe they RELIGIOUSLY use the products they endorse? SERIOUSLY?
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Upon opening the latest Guitar World magazine I was shocked to learn that Steve Vai uses a Fender amp for his clean sounds. What happened to 3 years ago when he promoted his Carvin Legacy as IT in terms of clean and distortion? Remember that he was downgrading from a Bogner XTC. Then he goes on to say in the video that Legacy combos are still great amps but the Fender adds a new dimension to his sound. Furthermore, he goes to say that he is planning to design a Carvin Legacy 2 with an additional channel. What the...? Why didn't he stick to the XTC in the first place which already had 3 channels built in and with some minor tweaking from Rheinhold would actually turn any Carvin amp to crap? Regardless of sound qualify, my point is that Artists should qualify that they sound the way the do because of the TOTAL system and not because of one particular component and that they give endorsement at that SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME ONLY. Look at his Gear Diagram in the latest Guitar World and you will understand that it ain't only because of his Carvin Legacy.
Alex,
All of us in some point will get tired of the same thing...everything evolves. I changed gears 'coz my taste in music changed. The Legacy and Fender obviously are different amps.... different cleans. ( you know I own one.) Right now I still have my Legacy and sold all my other Carvin amps and got a Brown Note D Lite 22 amp. The Legacy can just do so much...it cannot do Fender cleans....Marshall cleans ...maybe. It's just the capability of the amp....people add effects ...change tubes, speakers, cabs, etc.... to make it versatile...but it just comes to a point that it can do only that. Thus.....buy or make another amp..... but I don't know if Carvin can do Fender cleans though....it's gonna be interesting.
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Why do artists endorse? Because they can... When will they stop this and that, blah blah blab? Doesn't matter to me... I don't really see any point in trying to know or understand an artist's reason for endorsing a certain product. It could be a number of reasons, anywhere from financial to political to just plain whim. Or, as crazy as it sounds, they could actually believe in, like and use the product that they are endorsing :-o Honestly, all the great artists in the world can endorse whatever product they want to, I will still use my own ears and decide for myself.
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damn...the gods are talking here?this is interesting...perception,personality...it depends...
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A friend told me once...
"Got these jordan sneakers. cool. i still don't play like jordan though.."
Point is endorsements are only a part of the biz side of the music industry. It's a fact. I usually don't prefer signature models because 1) it's pricey 2) i don't have the money, and 3) what works for him may not work for me <assuming the artist uses the product>.
Yep i agree. it really sucks when artists endorse products blindly. Poor consumers.
on the other hand... welcome back OAS. :-D. yeah
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Phil,
I just wish Steve Vai had said it the way you did "the Legacy can only do so much ... it cannot do Fender Cleans" but he said "Legacy combos are great amps and the Fender adds a different dimension". If you observe the video closely, he suddenly paused to think about what to say because he was raving about the Legacy but was suddenly caught to be inconsistent. And I do compliment you because you did not go rush out to get a Fender just like that -- not to mean that Fender amps are bad. By the way, I don't get tired of the same thing if it sounds great but thats just me. The first amp which I bought in 1986 is still me with me today.
And the funny thing about Vai was he was trying to point out jokingly that his favorite piece of gear was his electric fan because he looked cool and he said aint that what it is all about?
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Pallas,
I think a lot of people believe in endorsements and single out that one piece of endorsement as the key to a certain artist's sound. After all, the mighty JEM is celebrating its 20th year. Unfortunately, they fail to see the whole context. Again, I encourage you to look at Steve Vai's gear setup and I myself will not know what does what to the sound. Though I know these guys use other stuff but I rather he make more money on making better music. Up to this day, I dont think he has topped Passion and Warfare. Another funny insight about Vai was he admitting jokingly that he is a poser. But don't get me wrong I still love Vai.
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Progressive Philippines,
I understand your point and thats why believe someone knowledgeable in tone should be considered more authoratative than some stranger and thats why you should listen again. However, the danger of not realizing that your tone is bad is that there might be something wrong with your standard. As an extreme example, if you grew up on Lumanog guitars and it was fine with you. Then someone comes along and says that it sounds bad because he uses Martin. You go back and say, "It still sounds good to me" but not knowing what a Martin sounds like. You now shut yourself to the possibility of using a Martin.
In my case, I discovered tone because people have put me and my gear down. As I narrated in previous posts, the first time that I was in this similar situation was when my worst sounding guitar a Floral White Ibanez JEM VWH with vine inlays was beat by Arie's strat. Point by point Arie showed me what was wrong with it. From wood warp to actual problems with the sound to response, to playability and to character. It was clearly a badly made instrument that did not sound good. I felt let down by Steve Vai. That day was the day that I started to learn what a good sounding guitar should be.
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Alex
I don't get where the heartache is coming from:
-- You're a businessman right? So you know that the endorsement game is for the most part all about money and not so much about "man I really dig this product". So you can't possibly be shocked about this "lack of integrity" displayed by some players.
-- You're also one smart cat who knows a lot of stuff about gear. So you can't possibly have been duped into buying something just because Pepe and Pilar both use it. You of all people probably do tons of research before pulling the trigger on anything.
So, what's really bugging you about this whole endorsement thing?
BTW -- how's #55 doing?
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alex,
thanks for the new nick. :lol:
Yes i see where you are coming from. I for one, started on a cheap lumanog guitar. I thought its sustain was great and that its tone was wonderful. But when i was able to try out a yamaha acoustic guitar(the one that nyoy volante had used )i realised that my guitar sucked! and that was only one better guitar ive tried.
I just thought, what about guitarists who doesnt have any option of trying out something else and then we go "hey your tone sucks." hehe. It would sound very much insulting. If i would say that id offer that person an option to try something, like, "hey would you like to try my guitar Im sure youd sound better on this."
anyway, OT na. hehe
Steve plays good guitar, he's made a name, his got good gear. Whatever happens i cant say that his tone sucks. :-D
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Alex
I don't get where the heartache is coming from:
-- You're a businessman right? So you know that the endorsement game is for the most part all about money and not so much about "man I really dig this product". So you can't possibly be shocked about this "lack of integrity" displayed by some players.
-- You're also one smart cat who knows a lot of stuff about gear. So you can't possibly have been duped into buying something just because Pepe and Pilar both use it. You of all people probably do tons of research before pulling the trigger on anything.
So, what's really bugging you about this whole endorsement thing?
BTW -- how's #55 doing?
this thing is all psychological..
Just like the Nike Air Jordan, even though we cant play like him if we wear those shoes we feel that now i am one step closer to becoming Jordan...
and artists endorse because of th money and the benefits it can give to you.. i bet dave mustaine made a big adjustmnt when he got to dean guitars, theres nothing he could do about it its pays a lot better..
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In my case, I discovered tone because people have put me and my gear down. As I narrated in previous posts, the first time that I was in this similar situation was when my worst sounding guitar a Floral White Ibanez JEM VWH with vine inlays was beat by Arie's strat. Point by point Arie showed me what was wrong with it. From wood warp to actual problems with the sound to response, to playability and to character. It was clearly a badly made instrument that did not sound good. I felt let down by Steve Vai. That day was the day that I started to learn what a good sounding guitar should be.
comparing a JEM to a strat. no contest. a strat will always win to my ears. and they'd both lose to a tele. :D
Lets hear it for Les Paul then. the only player who's signature series was so good, other pickers actually base their signature series on it and still keep his name on the moniker. "<Artist's name> Signature Model Les Paul." thats like saying "the i-couldn't-think-of-a-design-i-like-better-so-i'll-just-use-Les-Paul's-and-add-my-name-to-it signature model guitar." kids today look at his signature model and dont realize Les Paul is actually a person's name, not a french title meaning "The Paul."
still... its not as good as a tele... :lol:
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Alex
I don't get where the heartache is coming from:
-- You're a businessman right? So you know that the endorsement game is for the most part all about money and not so much about "man I really dig this product". So you can't possibly be shocked about this "lack of integrity" displayed by some players.
-- You're also one smart cat who knows a lot of stuff about gear. So you can't possibly have been duped into buying something just because Pepe and Pilar both use it. You of all people probably do tons of research before pulling the trigger on anything.
So, what's really bugging you about this whole endorsement thing?
BTW -- how's #55 doing?
this thing is all psychological..
Just like the Nike Air Jordan, even though we cant play like him if we wear those shoes we feel that now i am one step closer to becoming Jordan...
and artists endorse because of th money and the benefits it can give to you.. i bet dave mustaine made a big adjustmnt when he got to dean guitars, theres nothing he could do about it its pays a lot better..
huh? i don't get what your reply has to do with my question to alex
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I remember my classmate when i was 15 yrs old...
He's only using a Hot Cabs amp and an RJ guitar but he plays Vai, Satch, Kotzen and Malmsteen that time.
and me?! I'm using a Marshall valvestate 8080 and a korean floyd rose equipped guitar, was so picky about the gear that my teenage @ss can get but all I can play back then are riffs from Metallica and other thrash metal bands! I asked myself, how comes he plays so good and definitely sounds better than me despite of the gears that he's using.
Moral of the story...
Enough of the gears... More on the playing first! A lot of guitar players forget that your playing can either make or break your tone!
Imagine this... You saw a guy onstage using Van Halen's Frankenstrat replica with a Peavey 5150 but he can not play a simple solo to save his life and his tone sucks despite his gear! heheheh :-D
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Its this simple, for a make or brake important gig in your life, would you rather use a sentimental guitar or a killer sounding one?
ok let's put it this way. sa EBs na lang or sa mga Tone Parties. If i would bring my guitar that I've been using for years and compare it to someone else's killer sounding guitar. someone may say that my guitar doesn't stand up to the other. but should i care? personally i don't. acceptance is a time consuming process.
true
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....And the funny thing about Vai was he was trying to point out jokingly that his favorite piece of gear was his electric fan because he looked cool and he said aint that what it is all about?
... that is sooooo rockstar.... what do you expect. :-D
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Wow- Alex is back! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
Because their last priority is sound!!!
Hard to say. If you'd said their first priority was money, I'd agree with you. But I would think that an endorser-- or any endorser for that matter, whether toothpaste or medicine pa yan--wouldn't put his name on the line if he/she knew the product had some merits. He/she would certainly avoid endorsing products that could potentially harm the buyer/public. That could damage his reputation and credibility and affect his marketability, which would prevent him from getting future endorsements, etc...
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Wow- Alex is back! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
Because their last priority is sound!!!
Hard to say. If you'd said their first priority was money, I'd agree with you. But I would think that an endorser-- or any endorser for that matter, whether toothpaste or medicine pa yan--wouldn't put his name on the line if he/she knew the product had some merits. He/she would certainly avoid endorsing products that could potentially harm the buyer/public. That could damage his reputation and credibility and affect his marketability, which would prevent him from getting future endorsements, etc...
100% agree .... I have the Vai amp .... and the amp's tone does have Vai's sound. So Vai made sure that it works for him too and he's been using it.... listen to latest album.
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....And the funny thing about Vai was he was trying to point out jokingly that his favorite piece of gear was his electric fan because he looked cool and he said aint that what it is all about?
... that is sooooo rockstar.... what do you expect. :-D
HAHAHA!! this is why i love Vai. with him guitar is fun and he never forgets what it's all about!
i wish we learn a thing or two from Vai's attitude; we'd have less tonal OC-ness, GAS, and flame wars here but have more fun!
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Wow- Alex is back! LET THE GAMES BEGIN!
what?... just like that? no welcome party? no group hug? :-D
a round of virtual beer on me! [smilie=rlp_smilie_242.gif]
welcome back oas... about time you add some more excitement here. :-)
(back to topic)
About artists endorsing Major brands, i agree that its primarily for the money... BUT like of all us, they have ears too. just because you dont like what they endorse doesnt mean they dont mean what they say when they refer to their signature series as great sounding gear. What's best for them might not be best for you and vice versa... That's why Vai has evo, You got the #55 and sir nathan got his Tele. :-)
"my music is complicated, but the way i like to do things is not" - Steve Vai on Carvin interview.
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Welcome back, Alex! Thanks for coming back :)
As much as I am an EVH fan, I agree that he's not very credible when it comes to endorsements. I've heard too many "This is the best (the gear he's endorsing) I've ever used in my life!" declarations from him. Well, it's helping him get $30M a year so saying such stuff is a no-brainer for him. He's got nothing else to prove to anyone anyway.
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:mrgreen: if it doesn't suite your needs don't buy it.
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Because their last priority is sound!!!
..........Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone. Artist agenda is not so clear. They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone. Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.
And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...
NO ONE TO BLAME!---
THE FIRST QUESTION YOU NEED TO ASK YOURSELF IS -
1) DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE BEST PRODUCT?
WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF THE BEST?
OR
2) DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE BEST-MARKETED PRODUCT?
IT IS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT THE MAKERS OF THE BEST-MARKETED RRODUCTS KNOW YOUR REASON TO BUY AND THAT MOST OFTEN IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF QUALITY(SOUND)!! [QUESTION --- DOES KRIS AQUINO MAKE PEOPLE BUY?? OR DOES AGA MULAK OR DOES ROBIN PADILLA]
COMPANIES ARE DEFINED AS FOLLOWS:
1) PRODUCT-DRIVEN
2) MARKET-DRIVEN
3) TECHNOLOGY-DRIVEN
4) MANUFACTURING (PRODUCTION)-DRIVEN
GUESS WHERE YOUR FAVORITE AMP MAKERS FALL UNDER?
corollary: WHERE DO THE BEST-MADE/SOUNDING AMPS FALL UNDER?
LAST QUESTION: HOW DO YOU BUY???
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We all know its a marketing thing. Same rason why we have actors and actresses endorsing noodles and panty liners but that doesnt mean they eat panty liners and wear noodles of those brands all the time. Back to guitar, as far as endorsemnt goes IMHO only PG is brave enough and credible enough to say "use the PGM 301, its the closest thing to the one i use" hes stand by his word so much that everytim he do a clinic he can just get if off the shelves and wank with it. Now thats an endorsement.
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The first post is a nice read. Refreshing in a forum full of ups and up-for-yous.
Good point you have there. Paid endorsements from artists are not credible sources of how gear is good, since these only reinforce a brand, not the actual product. A conviction on good piece of gear based on belief in an endorsement is but a shallow one.
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Back to guitar, as far as endorsemnt goes IMHO only PG is brave enough and credible enough to say "use the PGM 301, its the closest thing to the one i use" hes stand by his word so much that everytim he do a clinic he can just get if off the shelves and wank with it. Now thats an endorsement.
Isn't that also Vai's "official" statement in the Ibanez Catalog? Goes something like "anywhere in the world, when I go in a store and pick up a Jem, it's my voice."
Dunno about his clinics, though.
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I think that's what every Ibanez endorser says about their signature guitars.
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^^ Yes :D
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Because their last priority is sound!!!
..........Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone. Artist agenda is not so clear. They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone. Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.
And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...
NO ONE TO BLAME!---
THE FIRST QUESTION YOU NEED TO ASK YOURSELF IS -
1) DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE BEST PRODUCT?
WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF THE BEST?
OR
2) DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE BEST-MARKETED PRODUCT?
IT IS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT THE MAKERS OF THE BEST-MARKETED RRODUCTS KNOW YOUR REASON TO BUY AND THAT MOST OFTEN IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF QUALITY(SOUND)!! [QUESTION --- DOES KRIS AQUINO MAKE PEOPLE BUY?? OR DOES AGA MULAK OR DOES ROBIN PADILLA]
COMPANIES ARE DEFINED AS FOLLOWS:
1) PRODUCT-DRIVEN
2) MARKET-DRIVEN
3) TECHNOLOGY-DRIVEN
4) MANUFACTURING (PRODUCTION)-DRIVEN
GUESS WHERE YOUR FAVORITE AMP MAKERS FALL UNDER?
corollary: WHERE DO THE BEST-MADE/SOUNDING AMPS FALL UNDER?
LAST QUESTION: HOW DO YOU BUY???
correct on all terms
its a business thing, its money conversation, if someone gets ticked off with money conversations i guess he has an internal money conversation problem. companies hire celeb endorsers because they think poeple will buy their opinion that would rectify the strength of a product at the end of the day companies big or small only have one agenda...revenue thats the whole purpose of a business venture. Calling celeb endorsers who jump ship everytime a better offer is presented to them as a whore (or any words to that effect) is by far a form of bigotry to my opinion. these people are professionals who have secure money issues thats it. they are not coming out from the tv or print ads to twist your arm and force you to buy what they endorse. prime said freedom is the right of every sentient being i dont think they are taking that away from you when they endorse whatever product there is out there. . we are all free to not like whatever it is that we choose to not like, but to justify hating someone for doing something that they are free to do which is not in anyway taking away your own freedom is bigotry as far as im concerned, The word Hate itself is bigotry. ponder that for a moment.
We dont all like the same things, if you dont like a certain product then dont, but why should we hate others guys who like them and judged them because their making money by saying they like them?
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Because their last priority is sound!!!
Upon opening the latest Guitar World magazine I was shocked to learn that Steve Vai uses a Fender amp for his clean sounds. What happened to 3 years ago when he promoted his Carvin Legacy as IT in terms of clean and distortion? Remember that he was downgrading from a Bogner XTC. Then he goes on to say in the video that Legacy combos are still great amps but the Fender adds a new dimension to his sound. Furthermore, he goes to say that he is planning to design a Carvin Legacy 2 with an additional channel. What the...? Why didn't he stick to the XTC in the first place which already had 3 channels built in and with some minor tweaking from Rheinhold would actually turn any Carvin amp to crap? Regardless of sound qualify, my point is that Artists should qualify that they sound the way the do because of the TOTAL system and not because of one particular component and that they give endorsement at that SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME ONLY. Look at his Gear Diagram in the latest Guitar World and you will understand that it ain't only because of his Carvin Legacy.
Now a month before that, I was reading the Eddie Van Halen Issue and he says that the EVH III is his best amp to date. And yet, why the hell didn't he design the 5150 to sound as good as the EVH III? I bought one Peavey 5150 head and good riddance. I had enough sense to realize that it sounded inferior to the amp that it was copying. So,stay tuned for EVH XX? Now for all I care, it could be the best sounding amp head for US$2,000 but my point is that when will artists finally deliver sincere goods that have no attachments of endorsement deals and free equipment and when will they stop putting their names on amps, effects and guitars that they know they will outgrow in the future. The number 1 offender is Fender which started this and Gibson as a close number 2. PRS is also starting to this today. By the way, I have heard more crappy sounding Santana USA guitars than good sounding ones. Fender YJM has its lastest incarnation now which according to a close YJM fan friend of mine who was able to test 4 new models a few weeks ago still sounded like crap compared to the older YJMs.
Back to Steve Vai, hasn't everybody wondered why after 20 years of JEM production Ibanez still cannot come up with JEM guitars to beat EVO and FLO? The answer is because wood is too variable to control and Steve Vai says this in the guitar world video. In short, out of the thousands of JEMS produced, only BO was added and the rest of the guitars are substandard vis - a -vis EVO and FLO. Because if it sounded any better, Ibanez would send it first to Steve Vai instead of you. By the way, I have yet to hear an Ibanez that sounds really killer.
Take a good look at Joe Satriani. I have all his DVDs and I play them back across a good hi fi system, not the high end ones like KRELL but definitely not your plain vanilla asian or japanese sound system. When I put in his latest DVD with his signature JSX Peavey Amps, I was floored because I never remembered hearing Joe sound so NGONGO. His pick attack was missing in his lead runs. His highs sounded harsh. Though I know that it was only a DVD and it will be a different experience live I knew I was living with much better gear everyday of my life.
Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone. Artist agenda is not so clear. They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone. Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.
And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...
And Dave Mustaine is endorsing Line 6 now. Zakk Wylde "loves" cute ss halfstack Marshalls. Dimebag likes the Korg G3.
:roll:
But wait... what if your idols turned down endorsement offers, and someday they turn 95 and look back and tell themselves, "Why didn't I grab the opportunity [to endorse] back then so I can have a daily chiropractor session?"
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We all know its a marketing thing. Same rason why we have actors and actresses endorsing noodles and panty liners but that doesnt mean they eat panty liners and wear noodles of those brands all the time. Back to guitar, as far as endorsemnt goes IMHO only PG is brave enough and credible enough to say "use the PGM 301, its the closest thing to the one i use" hes stand by his word so much that everytim he do a clinic he can just get if off the shelves and wank with it. Now thats an endorsement.
hehehe i even read somewhere that he even had ibanez make a plywood bodied PGM for him and he actually liked it :|! But of course i doubt if he'll prefer that over his current basswood guitar. And the way he attacks the strings could compensate for the woods lack of response.
At least this guy stuck with Ibanez. EVH on the other hand....... :|
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here is a million dollar question... what if a major company offers you (each of us) a million dollar to pose and talk about how good their product is despite its inferior quality (relative to others) for a period of time would you do it?
if you said yes you certainly have a perfect inner money conversation.
if you said no what do you think your freinds will say to you?
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people are willing to do a LOT of things for a million dollars, dude. scale it down to a more realistic figure, and that can be a more interesting question.
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..
if you said no what do you think your freinds will say to you?
they will adore me after I give them gifts and party with them(using my overloaded bank account) .....of course ...it's all on me. 8-)
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people are willing to do a LOT of things for a million dollars, dude. scale it down to a more realistic figure, and that can be a more interesting question.
obyusly thats a figure of speech of course you guys know what i mean, if the price is right kinda thing, whatever is realistic to you then.
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6 Cycle Mind. Each got a house & lot and a car for the Tanduay deal.
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people are willing to do a LOT of things for a million dollars, dude. scale it down to a more realistic figure, and that can be a more interesting question.
obyusly thats a figure of speech of course you guys know what i mean, if the price is right kinda thing, whatever is realistic to you then.
i don't mean to sound like a detail freak, dude. but, if the price is right, just about any one of us would do it. it's a relative value, hence will differ from person to person. the luxury to turn down an endorsement deal purely out of principle is reserved to a small minority.
that's the whole nature of an endorsement deal. if the endorsee is happy with the name association and entailing increase in demand, and the endorser is happy with what he gets, then all is good.
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6 Cycle Mind. Each got a house & lot and a car for the Tanduay deal.
HELL YEAH :-o 8-) ano kaya nakuha ng PNE sa mang tomas deal?
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6 Cycle Mind. Each got a house & lot and a car for the Tanduay deal.
HELL YEAH :-o 8-) ano kaya nakuha ng PNE sa mang tomas deal?
Lifetime supply ng Mang Tomas? LOL
Si Michael Jordan naman, ng Chicago Bulls days, 'pag iniinterview regarding sa secret niya sa air time; "It's all about the shoes".
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Whoah....
Biglang humaba ang thread na ito...
PRSman,
1) Actually, though I tolerated artist endorsements, the successive Guitar World features on EVH's amp and Steve Vai actually using a Fender got me pissed. Because I don't think its fair that other people will feel some doubt about what was sold to them previously. Whats more, I feel that there are better manufacturers out there who make better stuff. There is just a lack of transparency and sincerity in a lot of today's music and though I know its really about making money for a majority, it just does not feel right.
2) I have been a victim of artist endorsement, I used to have an Ibanez PGM MIJ, Ibanez Reb Beach with Brazilian Rosewood MIJ, Ibanez Jem 7 VWH MIJ, ESP George Lynch around 3 of them, Washburn N4 Nuno Bettencourt Padauk. I had them all at the same time but was beat by a no-name cheap Japanese Les Paul knock-off. The only signature thingy I have left today is a George Lynch Time Machine Boost pedal. So, technically I dont go for the signature stuff today. However, I still try signature stuff and most of them are disappointing.
3) On Baker#55, it gets better every day. I am speechless. I have to say that this guitar will beat 99.9% of electric guitars out there. Nothing ABed against it has beaten it at least to my ears. Its really that good. So good that I am now in the process of buying my 2nd baker in less than 2 months. DISCLAIMER: the statements are extremely reflective of my bias and sense of hyperbole.
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sabi nga nila eh...
"Don't hate the player, Hate the game"
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We all know its a marketing thing. Same rason why we have actors and actresses endorsing noodles and panty liners but that doesnt mean they eat panty liners and wear noodles of those brands all the time. Back to guitar, as far as endorsemnt goes IMHO only PG is brave enough and credible enough to say "use the PGM 301, its the closest thing to the one i use" hes stand by his word so much that everytim he do a clinic he can just get if off the shelves and wank with it. Now thats an endorsement.
hehehe i even read somewhere that he even had ibanez make a plywood bodied PGM for him and he actually liked it :|! But of course i doubt if he'll prefer that over his current basswood guitar. And the way he attacks the strings could compensate for the woods lack of response.
At least this guy stuck with Ibanez. EVH on the other hand....... :|
I'm a fan, He's a TONE CHASER daw e. So I'd love to own a USA Music Man EVH, USA Peavey Wolfgang, Charvel Art Series and a Fender frankenstrat. Also the MXR EVH Phaser and Flanger. Amps din.
Also I'm gonna stripe paint a red converse with white and black. Hmmm, dapat pala e-mail ko si EVH para mag endorse sya ng striped converse.
Tone is in the shoes. :-D
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obyusly thats a figure of speech of course you guys know what i mean, if the price is right kinda thing, whatever is realistic to you then.
i don't mean to sound like a detail freak, dude. but, if the price is right, just about any one of us would do it. it's a relative value, hence will differ from person to person. the luxury to turn down an endorsement deal purely out of principle is reserved to a small minority.
that's the whole nature of an endorsement deal. if the endorsee is happy with the name association and entailing increase in demand, and the endorser is happy with what he gets, then all is good.
exactly, its a hypothetical and rethorical question for all of us to answer by putting ourselves in the shoes of the "Idols" in relation to accepting endorsement deals (and or ethical concerns and biases) thus having it from their view / vantage point. by answering yes to it one will come to realize this.... Its just business and that there is nothing wrong with it, implicating the point that blaming and hating them for doing it is totally way out of line in short its a hypocritical BS if one says no (with the execption of maybe like what Phil (jokingly) said if one has so much money enuf for him bribe everyone to believe that thats a perfectly sane decision) and that he doesnt want that money at all.
with regards to the Whore analogy (the monetary consideration as opposed t o Tone as the motivation for endorsements) I think its far incorrect and judgemental to make such analogy. Prostitution is a moral and criminal issue (in most Legal systems) , whereas endorsement deals are legal business arrangements.
anyway AL thats fine i guess this completely sums up my point.
surprisingly only 2 guys answerd the Money conversation Test
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3) On Baker#55, it gets better every day. I am speechless. I have to say that this guitar will beat 99.9% of electric guitars out there. Nothing ABed against it has beaten it at least to my ears. Its really that good. So good that I am now in the process of buying my 2nd baker in less than 2 months. DISCLAIMER: the statements are extremely reflective of my bias and sense of hyperbole.
Ayus, classic Oas!!! Gotta love the disclaimer too. :-D
Magpa-shootout/tone party ka naman para yung remaining 0.01% can take a shot at the Baker!
Come to think of it, pagamit mo kay Steve uli sa Aug 11, Bros Moustache. I will use whatever any serious 'challenger' would offer for me to use. ;-)
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Whoah....
Biglang humaba ang thread na ito...
PRSman,
1) Actually, though I tolerated artist endorsements, the successive Guitar World features on EVH's amp and Steve Vai actually using a Fender got me pissed. Because I don't think its fair that other people will feel some doubt about what was sold to them previously. Whats more, I feel that there are better manufacturers out there who make better stuff. There is just a lack of transparency and sincerity in a lot of today's music and though I know its really about making money for a majority, it just does not feel right.
2) I have been a victim of artist endorsement, I used to have an Ibanez PGM MIJ, Ibanez Reb Beach with Brazilian Rosewood MIJ, Ibanez Jem 7 VWH MIJ, ESP George Lynch around 3 of them, Washburn N4 Nuno Bettencourt Padauk. I had them all at the same time but was beat by a no-name cheap Japanese Les Paul knock-off. The only signature thingy I have left today is a George Lynch Time Machine Boost pedal. So, technically I dont go for the signature stuff today. However, I still try signature stuff and most of them are disappointing.
3) On Baker#55, it gets better every day. I am speechless. I have to say that this guitar will beat 99.9% of electric guitars out there. Nothing ABed against it has beaten it at least to my ears. Its really that good. So good that I am now in the process of buying my 2nd baker in less than 2 months. DISCLAIMER: the statements are extremely reflective of my bias and sense of hyperbole.
I believe you want the very best (subjective IMO). Good for you.
Most folks just go by with Price Performance Ratio. Maybe even EVH, Steve Vai, John Petrucci, Satriani, Yngwie, Clapton, etc. etc.
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if you give me 5K now so i can endorse some lumanog piece of crap... id do it.
hell, im not poor... but still, i am an unknown guy typing over the internet... id gladly endorse lumanog... although id definitely talk crap behind its back. ill say "well, im not doing anything... wont hurt if i get 5K just to get some photos taken. i did it for free before" ...
i remember, even e-heads endorsed Hot Cabs. and we all know they are crap amps.
the only thing i wouldnt endorse even if i get paid a million... is a politician. OK, so maybe ill endorse duterte for a million. but it has to be a million, and not less.
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Back to guitar, as far as endorsemnt goes IMHO only PG is brave enough and credible enough to say "use the PGM 301, its the closest thing to the one i use" hes stand by his word so much that everytim he do a clinic he can just get if off the shelves and wank with it. Now thats an endorsement.
Isn't that also Vai's "official" statement in the Ibanez Catalog? Goes something like "anywhere in the world, when I go in a store and pick up a Jem, it's my voice."
Dunno about his clinics, though.
that's a lil funny because a story in Vai's site tells something about his neck pick up being broken then being replaced by the same kind of pick up, after they got into his van or what ever they drove in, he played his guitar and got disappointed or something with the replacements, so they had to came back to where the original pick up was thrown away and search for the whole place.
...so what's with that? ad he only uses EvO, Flo and Bo, evo ,despte in it's worst condition can not be replaced by any ibanez Jem model, so maybe i's about the sentimental thing? and his JEm has tremsetters. which i thi yo cant find in a stock JEM
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eheh.i hate artist endorsed guitars kase mahal!
yung tunog nasa yo na yun kung magustuhan mo.
paul gilbert uses off the rack guitars (daw)..no difference sa performance.malupit pa din. :-D la lang
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ErnieBong,
Just to clarify why I called EVH a whore but a lovable whore at that, even if it does not seem obvious to you, is his willingness to sell out to a lesser company.
Several years ago I asked Soldano amplification -- we all do know that F.U.C.K. was recorded on a SLO 100 -- why they did not get EVH to endorse their amp. They said, we did not have US$250,000 to pay him. In fact, during the time that we first saw the Peavey 5150 cabinets on stage at the backline three SLO100s were powering them. If you look closely at the Peavey 5150 Head 1st Edition, it is an exact layout copy of the SLO with the exception choice between a Hi or Lo input jack.
And just to prove a point that the SLO100 is something special AND not just another amp with a different voicing/flavor, no peavey or fender distortion or overdrive can come close to the clarity, sustain, harmonic richness and punch of a SLO100. DISCLAIMER: Anything I say will be disowned by Soldano because I am this crazy guy who loves to collect high gain tube amps with so much distortion and so much loudness that my ears are so shot that I cannot distinguish between a Peavey, Fender or Soldano. :)
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DISCLAIMER: Anything I say will be disowned by Soldano because I am this crazy guy who loves to collect high gain tube amps with so much distortion and so much loudness that my ears are so shot that I cannot distinguish between a Peavey, Fender or Soldano. :)
LOL! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'll have to agree with Alex. EVH really is an endorsement whore, with "whore" meaning not a stick-to-one-brand kind of guy. Eddie is a businessman as much as he is a rockstar so he'd naturally go for the bigger, better deal. Music Man failed to produce EVH signature guitars at the rate that Eddie wanted that's why he moved to Peavey, etc.
What about the Dunlop Slash signature wah? He still uses the rackmounted wah during live concerts but he endorses the red one because he gets paid well for it. The bottom line is, product endorsement is more of a business now than it was before. Most of the famous musicians out there allow their names to be associated with specific equipment not only because of the quality of that piece of gear but also because of the money they receive for it. There are exceptions, though. Scott Henderson has extensively worked with John Suhr to come up with his signature Suhr Standard. He might have been paid as well for endorsing a Suhr guitar, but Henderson's remark that Suhr is the best guitar company he's ever worked with seems to have more credibility because the quality of Suhr's products is much higher than the more popular mass production-oriented manufacturers.
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why the HATE mehn.....PEACE nalang tayo lahat... :mrgreen:
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point taken, either way its their prerogative whom to do business with, regardless of how big or small that may be. i think we should choose our words and be fair to them. for all we know maybe he liked all those gear that he made business with agian its jsut a matter of prerogative on his part what to endorse during those particular times. im just saying its unfair to take it against them when they stamp their name on a product that we think is inferior (yeah maybe we are all too sentimental about music and music gear) someone here said its just a marketing thing... it is, and if we beleive these guys arent credible because they jumpship from company to company for whatever reason, its just us, the companies they work with didnt think so if they did they most probably wont hire them. if we feel bad because we got duped into buying inferior stuff because it had their name on then maybe we dont respect their value at all, the main reason companies put celeb names on a products is because of their trade name equity that increases the product's market value (or lack of)... putting an EVH name on a cotton shirt will make it twice the cost of a shirt of the same kind without his name on it, its just the way it is. we buy inferior products everyday with some celebs name on it without knowing it. if we blame ourselves for trusting our "Idols" too much then why should we take it agianst them, if we take it against them then we are actually saying that we are a victim and its their fault.
just like what vai said no one is to blame
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... There are exceptions, though. Scott Henderson has extensively worked with John Suhr to come up with his signature Suhr Standard. He might have been paid as well for endorsing a Suhr guitar, but Henderson's remark that Suhr is the best guitar company he's ever worked with seems to have more credibility because the quality of Suhr's products is much higher than the more popular mass production-oriented manufacturers.
woooshoooo... you're just saying that kasi you own a Suhr. Suhr sucks mehng...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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... There are exceptions, though. Scott Henderson has extensively worked with John Suhr to come up with his signature Suhr Standard. He might have been paid as well for endorsing a Suhr guitar, but Henderson's remark that Suhr is the best guitar company he's ever worked with seems to have more credibility because the quality of Suhr's products is much higher than the more popular mass production-oriented manufacturers.
woooshoooo... you're just saying that kasi you own a Suhr. Suhr sucks mehng...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
tsss.... panget naman ng suhr eh!!!! hahahaha
i'd pick a rockers guitar over a suhr any day!! !
haha loko lang ian!
3) On Baker#55, it gets better every day. I am speechless. I have to say that this guitar will beat 99.9% of electric guitars out there. Nothing ABed against it has beaten it at least to my ears. Its really that good. So good that I am now in the process of buying my 2nd baker in less than 2 months. DISCLAIMER: the statements are extremely reflective of my bias and sense of hyperbole.
good one on the save! haha
welcome back alex!
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Alex
I don't get where the heartache is coming from:
-- You're a businessman right? So you know that the endorsement game is for the most part all about money and not so much about "man I really dig this product". So you can't possibly be shocked about this "lack of integrity" displayed by some players.
-- You're also one smart cat who knows a lot of stuff about gear. So you can't possibly have been duped into buying something just because Pepe and Pilar both use it. You of all people probably do tons of research before pulling the trigger on anything.
So, what's really bugging you about this whole endorsement thing?
BTW -- how's #55 doing?
this thing is all psychological..
Just like the Nike Air Jordan, even though we cant play like him if we wear those shoes we feel that now i am one step closer to becoming Jordan...
and artists endorse because of th money and the benefits it can give to you.. i bet dave mustaine made a big adjustmnt when he got to dean guitars, theres nothing he could do about it its pays a lot better..
huh? i don't get what your reply has to do with my question to alex
ooops my bad... haha sorry...
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Nung nasa Rivermaya pa si Sir Perf akala ko may endorsement siya sa Ibanez. :-)
Do we have local guitar players with endorsements from Ibanez or any known brand? AFAIK merong mga artist sa ibang Asian countries na nageendorese ng Ibanez eh, bakit dito sa atin wala?
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Whoah....
Biglang humaba ang thread na ito...
PRSman,
1) Actually, though I tolerated artist endorsements, the successive Guitar World features on EVH's amp and Steve Vai actually using a Fender got me pissed. Because I don't think its fair that other people will feel some doubt about what was sold to them previously. Whats more, I feel that there are better manufacturers out there who make better stuff. There is just a lack of transparency and sincerity in a lot of today's music and though I know its really about making money for a majority, it just does not feel right.
2) I have been a victim of artist endorsement, I used to have an Ibanez PGM MIJ, Ibanez Reb Beach with Brazilian Rosewood MIJ, Ibanez Jem 7 VWH MIJ, ESP George Lynch around 3 of them, Washburn N4 Nuno Bettencourt Padauk. I had them all at the same time but was beat by a no-name cheap Japanese Les Paul knock-off. The only signature thingy I have left today is a George Lynch Time Machine Boost pedal. So, technically I dont go for the signature stuff today. However, I still try signature stuff and most of them are disappointing.
3) On Baker#55, it gets better every day. I am speechless. I have to say that this guitar will beat 99.9% of electric guitars out there. Nothing ABed against it has beaten it at least to my ears. Its really that good. So good that I am now in the process of buying my 2nd baker in less than 2 months. DISCLAIMER: the statements are extremely reflective of my bias and sense of hyperbole.
may i ask what was the brand of the les paul copy?
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Lahed,
There are some gear that excel in what they do that no one can deny. And there are properties in common across great sounding equipment that people will notice across all genres. My point with eddie and the rest is that they don't endorse the best there is on the field because the best cannot afford to pay them to endorse.
yeah! what i was saying hahaha :-D
also bwiset si dave mustaine for going to line 6 amps hahah (i love dave, but come ON! ano ba yan)
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Nung nasa Rivermaya pa si Sir Perf akala ko may endorsement siya sa Ibanez. :-)
Do we have local guitar players with endorsements from Ibanez or any known brand? AFAIK merong mga artist sa ibang Asian countries na nageendorese ng Ibanez eh, bakit dito sa atin wala?
ikaw dati diba? before you switched to washburn?
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he's back. cooooool.
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Nung nasa Rivermaya pa si Sir Perf akala ko may endorsement siya sa Ibanez. :-)
Do we have local guitar players with endorsements from Ibanez or any known brand? AFAIK merong mga artist sa ibang Asian countries na nageendorese ng Ibanez eh, bakit dito sa atin wala?
ikaw dati diba? before you switched to washburn?
:lol: i wish.
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Chad Robles has an Ibanez endorsement in the making. I love his J Custom. Not your typical Ibanez.
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Chad Robles has an Ibanez endorsement in the making. I love his J Custom. Not your typical Ibanez.
cool! j custom ibanez is way much better than ibanez jems.
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lahat ng Jcustom nakita ko puro rg type...wla bang SA type? or S type?
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ooohhhhh.....
so where's JC_Shredder?
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Whoah....
Biglang humaba ang thread na ito...
PRSman,
1) Actually, though I tolerated artist endorsements, the successive Guitar World features on EVH's amp and Steve Vai actually using a Fender got me pissed. Because I don't think its fair that other people will feel some doubt about what was sold to them previously. Whats more, I feel that there are better manufacturers out there who make better stuff. There is just a lack of transparency and sincerity in a lot of today's music and though I know its really about making money for a majority, it just does not feel right.
2) I have been a victim of artist endorsement, I used to have an Ibanez PGM MIJ, Ibanez Reb Beach with Brazilian Rosewood MIJ, Ibanez Jem 7 VWH MIJ, ESP George Lynch around 3 of them, Washburn N4 Nuno Bettencourt Padauk. I had them all at the same time but was beat by a no-name cheap Japanese Les Paul knock-off. The only signature thingy I have left today is a George Lynch Time Machine Boost pedal. So, technically I dont go for the signature stuff today. However, I still try signature stuff and most of them are disappointing.
3) On Baker#55, it gets better every day. I am speechless. I have to say that this guitar will beat 99.9% of electric guitars out there. Nothing ABed against it has beaten it at least to my ears. Its really that good. So good that I am now in the process of buying my 2nd baker in less than 2 months. DISCLAIMER: the statements are extremely reflective of my bias and sense of hyperbole.
On 1 -- Agree, especially on the point about there's better stuff out there. When I check out new builders and see who's using their products, it's refreshing to see players who are not big-named but still superstars in their own right.
On 2 -- I've actually never tried an artist model. I've never idolized any player's tone so much that I'd feel the urge to use exactly what he uses. The closest I got to getting an artist model was the Eric Johnson model, primarily because I was gassing for a Strat and thought that the EJ model might be the way to go. Didn't get it in the end.
On 3 -- The B3s are beautiful guitars. Gene had a one-off semi-hollow Baker for sale on ebay/TGP just last week. It was a guitar he started during the "first generation", stopped when he went bankrupt, and then finished off this year. According to him, it followed an older semi-hollow design with modifications based on the B3. It sold at a darn good price in my opinion. I was so tempted to bid on that Baker, but I just got a JG Bluesmaster so had to restrain myself. Are you thinking of another Fire or some other model?
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2) I have been a victim of artist endorsement, I used to have an Ibanez PGM MIJ, Ibanez Reb Beach with Brazilian Rosewood MIJ, Ibanez Jem 7 VWH MIJ, ESP George Lynch around 3 of them, Washburn N4 Nuno Bettencourt Padauk. I had them all at the same time but was beat by a no-name cheap Japanese Les Paul knock-off. The only signature thingy I have left today is a George Lynch Time Machine Boost pedal. So, technically I dont go for the signature stuff today. However, I still try signature stuff and most of them are disappointing.
It seems like you are comparing bolt-on signature guitars to a set-in neck no name gibson copy. Maybe you should have tried comparing your les paul copy with a real les paul since a gibson les paul is a signature guitar also.
or a prs tremonti signature model
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PRSman,
Congrats on the JG. How does it compare to Baker?
I am planning to get an Earth Model this time around.
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Randy,
The Japanese Les Paul knock off killed my genuine 1976 Gibson Custom and continues to kill other Historics today. If you reach my level of experience where I had to sell off my USA made Gibson because a much cheaper Japanese Les Paul knock off really made it a useless instrument, you will then understand that CONSTRUCTION is not the only factor that you can single out as the reason for a good sounding guitar. I used to have bolt-ons that will kill my set neck guitars and other bolt-ons.
I have tried 3 USA Tremontis in my life and they suck... I really really wished they sounded good but the three I tried sounded so ordinary. I even got to try a pre-gibson Ban tremonti with that spider design.
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PRSman,
Congrats on the JG. How does it compare to Baker?
I am planning to get an Earth Model this time around.
I haven't tested the two thoroughly, but I think that the B3 Fire will turn out to be the more versatile guitar. That's just my initial observation after playing both for like ten minutes before I had to go back to kid duties. The Bluesmaster's got this really good bluesy tone straight up, as well as a very clear and crisp clean tone.
I've got Wolfetones on both though, and am considering replacing what's on the B3. But I'm concerned about messing with it so I might just leave it alone.
The Earth model intrigues me. The XS too. But it will probably be a looong time before I buy anything again. I've already reached my gear spending cap, and am letting go of a lot of stuff right now.
Is the Earth on its way to you? Or does Cliff still have it in the works?
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If you reach my level of experience where I had to sell off my USA made Gibson ....
wow hangin :-D ok so now you are saying gibson is useless.
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If you reach my level of experience where I had to sell off my USA made Gibson ....
wow hangin :-D ok so now you are saying gibson is useless.
which one is useless? :-D
yun guitar ba? i doubt it... :-D
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If you reach my level of experience where I had to sell off my USA made Gibson ....
wow hangin :-D ok so now you are saying gibson is useless.
uy firestarter. i dont think he meant that. back to the topic bros..
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If you reach my level of experience where I had to sell off my USA made Gibson ....
wow hangin :-D ok so now you are saying gibson is useless.
uy firestarter. i dont think he meant that. back to the topic bros..
see the smiling face in my post. i don't want to start any word war dude. :-D
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Kaya pala may revamp, di namin namalayan BINALIK KA NA SA MATRIX.... :oops:
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PRSman,
Earth#41 is on reserve for me as soon as I complete the transactions... Its the one on the Destroy all Guitars website now. The All Korina Body with Braz Fingerboard and 3 Lollar P90s. Cliff strongly felt that I get this one to complement my #55. For Cliff, both #41 and #55 are considered special guitars.
What gets more playing time now, your Baker or your PRS?
Heh Heh.
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Randy,
I guess a USA Gibson remains useful until your next good or better sounding guitar. In my case, my Gibson USA got useless fast. Up to this date, I have not yet heard or found a killer sounding US Gibson. The most disappointing trip for me was to test around 12 Gibson Historics and Signatures straight in one day in Tom Lee Hong Kong and conclude than none of them sounded good. The sales concurred. As I said, a white ESP Alex Laiho killed the Gibsons. Again The salesman concurred and we were playing on clean. That included a Slash and Zakk Wylde Bulls Eye that I so much wanted to love.
I suggest that you take some time to call Ken Volpe of Ultrasound and ask how their real Gibson 59 Burst sounds like and compares to other newer guitars. They never were so excited about it. Now, we all know that only a few vintage Gibsons specially Bursts sound good. If the US guys with experience can say that, why do you find it hard to accept to reconcile that there is a large chance that a Gibson may sound bad?
Peace
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PRSman,
Earth#41 is on reserve for me as soon as I complete the transactions... Its the one on the Destroy all Guitars website now. The All Korina Body with Braz Fingerboard and 3 Lollar P90s. Cliff strongly felt that I get this one to complement my #55. For Cliff, both #41 and #55 are considered special guitars.
What gets more playing time now, your Baker or your PRS?
Heh Heh.
Cliff is amazing. Considering he's sick and all, he still works very hard.
Which gets more playing time? No brainer...
... my Lumanogs! :-D :-D :-D
I'm actually going to just keep one PRS moving forward -- my 1990 custom 24. Reached my spending cap on gear so I've got to let stuff go. The B3 and Bluesmaster are definitely better guitars than my McCarty and other custom 24... but then again, the B3 and Bluesmaster cost much more. I still prefer PRS though over Fender or Gibson (duck!).
So I'll now be known as "The Artist Formerly Known as PRSMan"... :-D
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Randy,
I guess a USA Gibson remains useful until your next good or better sounding guitar. In my case, my Gibson USA got useless fast. Up to this date, I have not yet heard or found a killer sounding US Gibson. The most disappointing trip for me was to test around 12 Gibson Historics and Signatures straight in one day in Tom Lee Hong Kong and conclude than none of them sounded good. The sales concurred. As I said, a white ESP Alex Laiho killed the Gibsons. Again The salesman concurred and we were playing on clean. That included a Slash and Zakk Wylde Bulls Eye that I so much wanted to love.
I suggest that you take some time to call Ken Volpe of Ultrasound and ask how their real Gibson 59 Burst sounds like and compares to other newer guitars. They never were so excited about it. Now, we all know that only a few vintage Gibsons specially Bursts sound good. If the US guys with experience can say that, why do you find it hard to accept to reconcile that there is a large chance that a Gibson may sound bad?
Peace
ok dude. that's a good call.
kudos!
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Randy,
I guess a USA Gibson remains useful until your next good or better sounding guitar. In my case, my Gibson USA got useless fast. Up to this date, I have not yet heard or found a killer sounding US Gibson. The most disappointing trip for me was to test around 12 Gibson Historics and Signatures straight in one day in Tom Lee Hong Kong and conclude than none of them sounded good. The sales concurred. As I said, a white ESP Alex Laiho killed the Gibsons. Again The salesman concurred and we were playing on clean. That included a Slash and Zakk Wylde Bulls Eye that I so much wanted to love.
I suggest that you take some time to call Ken Volpe of Ultrasound and ask how their real Gibson 59 Burst sounds like and compares to other newer guitars. They never were so excited about it. Now, we all know that only a few vintage Gibsons specially Bursts sound good. If the US guys with experience can say that, why do you find it hard to accept to reconcile that there is a large chance that a Gibson may sound bad?
Peace
i've had a similar experience. pero it was a mix of 5 or 6 les pauls (iba ibang brand) and 3 or 4 PRS guitars (di ko alam kung anong models). they all sounded crappy to me kasi none of them sounded like a tele. :lol: :lol: :lol:
... So I'll now be known as "The Artist Formerly Known as PRSMan"... :-D
TAFKAP din ang acronym. taken na yun. :lol:
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Randy,
I guess a USA Gibson remains useful until your next good or better sounding guitar. In my case, my Gibson USA got useless fast. Up to this date, I have not yet heard or found a killer sounding US Gibson. The most disappointing trip for me was to test around 12 Gibson Historics and Signatures straight in one day in Tom Lee Hong Kong and conclude than none of them sounded good. The sales concurred. As I said, a white ESP Alex Laiho killed the Gibsons. Again The salesman concurred and we were playing on clean. That included a Slash and Zakk Wylde Bulls Eye that I so much wanted to love.
I suggest that you take some time to call Ken Volpe of Ultrasound and ask how their real Gibson 59 Burst sounds like and compares to other newer guitars. They never were so excited about it. Now, we all know that only a few vintage Gibsons specially Bursts sound good. If the US guys with experience can say that, why do you find it hard to accept to reconcile that there is a large chance that a Gibson may sound bad?
Peace
WOOHOO! Ultrasound new york hahha! BEST rehearsal studio there, IMO. Every studio may matchless amp :-D
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its all about the money...come on'
business is business
its not about,
"this is good folks" or "this is bad fans"
its about,
"ill endorse this, how much do i get?"
after all, they've establish their names...all they need to do now is use it!
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TAM,
I agree whole heartedly and I would like to add that I noticed that the more endorsers a brand has, the sound of their products get worse or it is harder to get a good sounding instrument from any batch :)
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hey what's the brand of les paul copy? yung mga lawsuit era ba? :-)
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hey what's the brand of les paul copy? yung mga lawsuit era ba? :-)
oo nga naman bro.. please tell us what japanese make it was.. Navigator ba?.. or Edwards, Greco, Zemaitis, Tokai, Fujigen..? nai-intriga talaga kami e hehehe.. peace.. :-D
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nakatry na kasi ako ng burny. ang ganda ng tone. As well as micsis' bill brothers les paul.
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hey what's the brand of les paul copy? yung mga lawsuit era ba? :-)
oo nga naman bro.. please tell us what japanese make it was.. Navigator ba?.. or Edwards, Greco, Zemaitis, Tokai, Fujigen..? nai-intriga talaga kami e hehehe.. peace.. :-D
firemodel55 is referring to a bills brothers les paul copy.
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nakatry na kasi ako ng burny. ang ganda ng tone. As well as micsis' bill brothers les paul.
naka try ako nung NAVIGATOR LP STD sa tokyo way back and i was really amazed sa sound nya.. i mean it seemed the best japanese-made LP among the japanese LPs that I had the chance to try (Edwards, Grassroots, Greco and Tokai) there.. kaya nai-intriga talaga ako kung anong brand ng LP yung tinutukoy ni Firemodel55.. unfortunately, i havent tried any Gibson USAs yet so i cant give you any feedback on that.. by the way, the Navigator LP STD wasnt cheap either.. it was 160,000yen (about 75,000pesos ata).. peace.. :-D
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The burny that i tried had a very clear tone and was very responsive. Pero yung Bill's brothers ibang klase yung sustain! Pero back breaker :-D
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The burny that i tried had a very clear tone and was very responsive. Pero yung Bill's brothers ibang klase yung sustain! Pero back breaker :-D
ganun ba.. would you happen to know who makes Bill's Brothers LPs?.. hindi kaya Tokai Gakki?.. nagka-interest kasi ako sa mga japanese made LPs kasi i couldnt afford the original Gibson USAs before e hehehe.. pero nakakagulat prices ng mga Navigators ngayon.. nasa 280,000yen(mga 120,000pesos?) na pala yung pinaka murang LP STDs nila.. grabe talaga men.. so lumalabas ngayon na mas makakahanap ka pa siguro ng Gibson LP USA na mas mura hehehe.. thanx bro.. :-D
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Randy,
I guess a USA Gibson remains useful until your next good or better sounding guitar. In my case, my Gibson USA got useless fast. Up to this date, I have not yet heard or found a killer sounding US Gibson. The most disappointing trip for me was to test around 12 Gibson Historics and Signatures straight in one day in Tom Lee Hong Kong and conclude than none of them sounded good. The sales concurred. As I said, a white ESP Alex Laiho killed the Gibsons. Again The salesman concurred and we were playing on clean. That included a Slash and Zakk Wylde Bulls Eye that I so much wanted to love.
I suggest that you take some time to call Ken Volpe of Ultrasound and ask how their real Gibson 59 Burst sounds like and compares to other newer guitars. They never were so excited about it. Now, we all know that only a few vintage Gibsons specially Bursts sound good. If the US guys with experience can say that, why do you find it hard to accept to reconcile that there is a large chance that a Gibson may sound bad?
Peace
Very true! Not because its a Gibson it automatically sounds good.... I gave up my Gibson Gold Top and settled with my trusty old vintage hondo... coz it had the tone and feel I was after.... pero syempre I'm still in search for a really good sounding Gibson pa rin.. :-D... i cant afford to get one of those bakers!
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... There are exceptions, though. Scott Henderson has extensively worked with John Suhr to come up with his signature Suhr Standard. He might have been paid as well for endorsing a Suhr guitar, but Henderson's remark that Suhr is the best guitar company he's ever worked with seems to have more credibility because the quality of Suhr's products is much higher than the more popular mass production-oriented manufacturers.
woooshoooo... you're just saying that kasi you own a Suhr. Suhr sucks mehng...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
tsss.... panget naman ng suhr eh!!!! hahahaha
i'd pick a rockers guitar over a suhr any day!! !
haha loko lang ian!
Hoy, mga loko kayo ah! Hehehe! Nabasa ko lang yun sa interview kay John Suhr at Scot Henderson. Read them here:
http://www.suhrguitars.com/downloads/pdf/JSinterview.pdf
http://www.guitar9.com/interview77.html
:)
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hmmmm... unahan ko na kayo!!!!
thread lock. :-D
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What an entertaining read! First i find out Eric scores a JG... and Alex is on his way to #41. Hahaha... good stuff guys. Keep it up. After 59 I havnt gassed for anything. Write more about the JG ... so number 1 and 2 passed? Frets and workmanship?
Anyway, about the topic. Your mistake was opening up a copy of guitar world. GFTPM and GW as well as Guitar Player are all Ad magazines. Very little in theory and objectivity. They give 5 stars to whomever puts more ads in their magazines. It's really a shame though because once upon a time .. they had good articles and were a treat to read. Now at days, Guitarist UK and Guitar Techniques are a much better source for articles and reviews. They dont bias TOO much but its pretty obvious when they do.
For the signature models... well.. its really just a Jordan play like was mentioned earlier. The thing is there are things that are for you and things that are not. If eddie likes his 5150, can't blame him. I recently had a marshall jubilee in my house and was amazed at how "slash like" it sounded.. but it wasnt for me. To each his own. There are alot of artists that have Mock up heads on stage without any real electronics other than the pilot light running as endorsment deals. Mesa is very popular for this. Youll see these empty heads go on sale on ebay once in a while. I think zakk even gutted a marshall and put in a slo100 in the cab just coz he liked it so much but couldnt use one. Honestly marshall, mesa, peavey dont care what the artist uses as long as it gets its add space and sells more units. At the end of the day... we all just have to research real hard and try as much as we can... and use that for our decision making.
Blah blah blah ... senti... hahaha welcome back alex.
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I suspect that the Bills Brothers is a Greco because the tuners have the brand on them.
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I suspect that the Bills Brothers is a Greco because the tuners have the brand on them.
hmmm interesting. Diba Greco eventually became fender japan? I'm not sure though
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I suspect that the Bills Brothers is a Greco because the tuners have the brand on them.
hmmm interesting. Diba Greco eventually became fender japan? I'm not sure though
Di yata e.. As far as I kow, may merger and Greco with Zemaitis kaya Greco-Zemaitis na yung ibang newer products nila.
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The burny that i tried had a very clear tone and was very responsive. Pero yung Bill's brothers ibang klase yung sustain! Pero back breaker :-D
Reg,
ang dami Gib LP custom and Std na napahiya dun sa Bills Bros LP na ito. Buti nalang walang takers nung pinost ko last week. :-D
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... There are exceptions, though. Scott Henderson has extensively worked with John Suhr to come up with his signature Suhr Standard. He might have been paid as well for endorsing a Suhr guitar, but Henderson's remark that Suhr is the best guitar company he's ever worked with seems to have more credibility because the quality of Suhr's products is much higher than the more popular mass production-oriented manufacturers.
woooshoooo... you're just saying that kasi you own a Suhr. Suhr sucks mehng...
:lol: :lol: :lol:
tsss.... panget naman ng suhr eh!!!! hahahaha
i'd pick a rockers guitar over a suhr any day!! !
haha loko lang ian!
Hoy, mga loko kayo ah! Hehehe! Nabasa ko lang yun sa interview kay John Suhr at Scot Henderson. Read them here:
http://www.suhrguitars.com/downloads/pdf/JSinterview.pdf
http://www.guitar9.com/interview77.html
:)
Hehe astig yung shur ni Scott Henderson at Guthrie Govan :-D
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Erniebong,
Just to clarify, I dont just THINK that the Peavey 5150 (1st edition) is inferior to the Soldano SLO100, I HEAR IT to be inferior.
In fact, I had the Peavey 5150 first way before I had a Soldano SLO100. Then I was able to get a Soldano Hot Rod 50 which was suppose to be designed around the SLO100s lead channel. I felt that the Peavey 5150 was still worth keeping because of its different voicing. But, with great reluctance, under pressure from Gary of the Amp Shop and Mr. Lito Bote who had heard and tested the SLO100, I bought one. When I first plugged it, it creamed that Peavey 5150. Still in denial, I had told myself that the 5150 had a unique sound that EVH must have appreciated. As time passed, no way!!! I was plugging more and more into the SLO100. Everytime I plugged back into the 5150 it sounded so far --- it lacked dynamic, sounded muddy (Brown sound eh?), had a bad clean sound. There was no note definition and string separation. In my case, I started off with an inferior amp that was acceptable to me and I got upgraded to a killer amp which it was based on. I sold the 5150. Up to this day, NO one who has ever tried the SLO100 locally has said that the Peavey 5150 is better than the SLO 100.
Just a side note that I mentioned before, the last amp SRV was testing was a SLO100. He was ready to integrate it into his rig before he died. According to SRV's tech, Stevie loved it like anything but they did not have time to set it up because they were in the middle of a tour. If you know SRV, he is more meticulous than Eddie when it comes to gear. If you know SRV, he does not mind playing a Tokai Strat on Stage. If you know Stevie, than you know he took Cesar's Criticism to heart and made him his tech. If you know Stevie, he mikes 50 different amps in different rooms at the same time during recording and can tell which amp has a bad sounding power tube with all of them on at the same time.
Now that you mentioned Brand Equity, let me give you an observation. The more a celebrity endorses, the more cluttered its gets for the consumer and mixing up TShirts and mixing that up with guitar equipment is so detrimental because you feel that they are making money out of you (Why is he into Tshirts when he is just suppose to endorse guitars?). Just two days ago I was attending several FGDs, wherein consumers are so jaded with endorsers -- I guess because you have endorsements everywhere -- these Class C respondents said in verbatim "nababayaran lang sila". They felt the brand was better off and more credible without celebrities as endorsers. My agency representative also concurred. Based on further research, Endorsers like Kris Aquino, Sharon and Manny Pacquiao have so many products endorsements that consumers NOW cannot clearly associate or remember to which product the celebrity made a sales pitch for -- this always comes out after post ad tests.
True Steve Vai says no one is to blame. On the other hand, I say we should not extoll anybody either. By the way ernie, do you own any artist/signature guitars, amps or effects?
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Alex,
Maybe EVH has a different opinion on his 5150 than yours that gave him reason to stick with it?
....and preference too.
Bitoy
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Well, aside from US$25,000 bucks, he now has an EVH III which means he is not sticking around any more with the 5150. The difference is I realized that early on way before he did.
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Well, aside from US$25,000 bucks, he now has an EVH III which means he is not sticking around any more with the 5150. The difference is I realized that early on way before he did.
really? i heard he realized it on may 21 2006, at 6:03pm whilst sitting outside his porch, just as the moon was rising on a clear cloudless sky...so you realized it before then, huh? kewl...how much earlier did you realize it? was it the same day? you do realize you 2 are on 2 differnet time zones right? you guys are 15 hours earlier than us here so it's unfair. :evil:
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For Cliff, both #41 and #55 are considered special guitars.
I bet he tells that to all his clients. ;-)
Congrats in advance on your new Baker. :-D
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Well, aside from US$25,000 bucks, he now has an EVH III which means he is not sticking around any more with the 5150. The difference is I realized that early on way before he did.
really? i heard he realized it on may 21 2006, at 6:03pm whilst sitting outside his porch, just as the moon was rising on a clear cloudless sky...so you realized it before then, huh? kewl...how much earlier did you realize it? was it the same day? you do realize you 2 are on 2 differnet time zones right? you guys are 15 hours earlier than us here so it's unfair. :evil:
ha ha ha... alaskador ka man!
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MY BAKER IS BETTER THAN YOUR BAKER BECAUSE MINE HAS WINGS!
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my baker makes cheap 1 peso pandesal......
*WOOOOOO SAABOOOGGGG....yeah i know......sorry sorry wala lang.....
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Deltaslim,
Thanks.
Don't worry, I will tell him to give you the EXTRA special guitars when you call or email. :)
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Statistically, here is my take on boutique stuff. (Hindi ito OT.)
The buyer of a boutique piece of gear is actually subsidizing the other "possible buyers" of the same piece of gear, granting that the raw materials were not screened with very low tolerances.
With endorsement deal gear, they are trying to market a product with some famous axeman's sig as something "special" but not to the extent of throwing out 70% of the product's raw material inventory. Maybe they should make them a tad more special than the production line by adding extra features like flame tops, or extra hardware.
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Because their last priority is sound!!!
Upon opening the latest Guitar World magazine I was shocked to learn that Steve Vai uses a Fender amp for his clean sounds. What happened to 3 years ago when he promoted his Carvin Legacy as IT in terms of clean and distortion? Remember that he was downgrading from a Bogner XTC. Then he goes on to say in the video that Legacy combos are still great amps but the Fender adds a new dimension to his sound. Furthermore, he goes to say that he is planning to design a Carvin Legacy 2 with an additional channel. What the...? Why didn't he stick to the XTC in the first place which already had 3 channels built in and with some minor tweaking from Rheinhold would actually turn any Carvin amp to crap? Regardless of sound qualify, my point is that Artists should qualify that they sound the way the do because of the TOTAL system and not because of one particular component and that they give endorsement at that SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME ONLY. Look at his Gear Diagram in the latest Guitar World and you will understand that it ain't only because of his Carvin Legacy.
Now a month before that, I was reading the Eddie Van Halen Issue and he says that the EVH III is his best amp to date. And yet, why the hell didn't he design the 5150 to sound as good as the EVH III? I bought one Peavey 5150 head and good riddance. I had enough sense to realize that it sounded inferior to the amp that it was copying. So,stay tuned for EVH XX? Now for all I care, it could be the best sounding amp head for US$2,000 but my point is that when will artists finally deliver sincere goods that have no attachments of endorsement deals and free equipment and when will they stop putting their names on amps, effects and guitars that they know they will outgrow in the future. The number 1 offender is Fender which started this and Gibson as a close number 2. PRS is also starting to this today. By the way, I have heard more crappy sounding Santana USA guitars than good sounding ones. Fender YJM has its lastest incarnation now which according to a close YJM fan friend of mine who was able to test 4 new models a few weeks ago still sounded like crap compared to the older YJMs.
Back to Steve Vai, hasn't everybody wondered why after 20 years of JEM production Ibanez still cannot come up with JEM guitars to beat EVO and FLO? The answer is because wood is too variable to control and Steve Vai says this in the guitar world video. In short, out of the thousands of JEMS produced, only BO was added and the rest of the guitars are substandard vis - a -vis EVO and FLO. Because if it sounded any better, Ibanez would send it first to Steve Vai instead of you. By the way, I have yet to hear an Ibanez that sounds really killer.
Take a good look at Joe Satriani. I have all his DVDs and I play them back across a good hi fi system, not the high end ones like KRELL but definitely not your plain vanilla asian or japanese sound system. When I put in his latest DVD with his signature JSX Peavey Amps, I was floored because I never remembered hearing Joe sound so NGONGO. His pick attack was missing in his lead runs. His highs sounded harsh. Though I know that it was only a DVD and it will be a different experience live I knew I was living with much better gear everyday of my life.
Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone. Artist agenda is not so clear. They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone. Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.
And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...
Ganyan talaga sa endorsements. Walang pinagkaiba sa
1. Sikat na artista, nag-endorse ng sardinas
2. Sikat na model, nag-endorse ng shampoo
3. Sikat na basketbolista, nag-endorse ng gatas
But for all you know, si artista never na kumain ng sardinas in real life or kung kumain man once or twice a year lang pero sa commercial the best sardines daw yun kaya lagi nya kinakain! Or si model, nung gumamit daw ng shampoong yun, nawala yung falling hair pero in real life ala naman talaga syang falling hair! Or si basketbolista, inom daw sya ng gatas na yun for a stronger body pero sa totoo lang whey protein at weight training lang pala ang sikreto!
Truth of the matter is: "Pera lang ang katapat mo." :-D
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It really is sad. Artists sell out in a different way :-D
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Well, that's business. That's their way to make a living.
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ya gotta remember...gear is just gear....it's a tool....if you're passionate about it, fine. the artist does what he does (this includes business moves eg endorsements) to keep on doing what he does (play music instead of sitting at a day job for 8 hours a day).
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why didn't EVH make his first 5150 amp to sound as good as the third 5150 amp which is supposedly his best sounding amp to date?
kasi everyday your tastes and preferences change.....and besides, the 5150 III was his best amp TO DATE.. ibig sabihin may susunod pa.
gusto rin nila parating may improvement sa kung anuman pinagkakaabalahan nila.
if EVH or VAI didnt improve their tone....or kung wala sa atin ang nag hangad mag improve ng tone natin sa paggitara.
hanggang ngayon naka mandolin at lute tayo
...d na naimbento ang les paul at stratocaster...at d na naimbento ang blues, heavy metal, rock n roll, thrash, jazz, fusion at kung ano pa.
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Blues,
Sorry my tastes do NOT change. I add to my palette. I know what I want and expand my equipment just as the way I expand my musical choices. I still love 80s rock now with the same intensity as I love nu-metal today. My very first Mesa Boogie is still with me today its 18 years old and sounds as good as it was back in the day and would still beat a lot of marshall, peavey and fender combos today.
With regards to gear, I get rid of something if I find something better. Thats what happened to my 5150 but correspondingly becausemy Mesa Boogie Caliber 22 combo sounds so unique and nice, it stays.
So if your tastes continue to change, then you don't know what you want.
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To further elaborate on the point above, I have this Marshall 2553 tube amp mini head which I bought way back in 1991. At that point in time, I knew what kind of sound I was looking for in a good tube amp. Heard it and played it for some time and kept it. Lately, Arie and Miks were just so amazed with this amp. They couldn't believe it sounded good for a late 80s designed Marshall amp -- read my lips "NON BOUTIQUE". Arie who does not like Marshalls is actually re-assessing his preferences. Miks is so stoked with it and believes it gives a different flavor compared to his Bogner Shiva which is a newer design -- about 20 years later but it hangs in there with his Shiva. I keep on telling them that this is diode clipping. They just dont care because it sounds good to their ears. These are two people with uniquely different requirements or so-called TASTES in amp or so it seems because of their different musical styles. Yet both agree its a killer sounding amp. The other guys is just having fun and knocking himself out just changing preamp tubes.
Timbre is something that changes often but the basics don't. When an artist endorses another brand and design, we have to ask the question if the basics sound better. In the case of the Peavey 5150, the basics were never ever near the Soldano SLO100. In the same breadth, I will tell you that my Marshall 1972 Super Lead Head is different and closer to the classic VH sound. I like it too but not as much as my SLO100 because of the SLO100s flexibility. Still it will hang and stay in there because it has a unique sound that I and others will like regardless of changes in so called taste. A SLO100 will never be Super Lead and the Super Lead deserves its place where it is BUT I WILL NEVER EVER CHANGE MY OPINION THAT MY SPECIFIC SUPERLEAD HEAD SOUNDS GREAT AND UNIQUE.
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sir OAS, pa view naman ng mga pictures sa lahat ng mga sinasabi mo? :wink: or links or youtube or frienster? :-D
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So if your tastes continue to change, then you don't know what you want.
Alex - It's good that you are confident about what you want and are very focused at getting it. In my case, and prolly blues2death's too, I know what I want. But what I want evolves and also expands as I pursue my muse and absorb new musical influences. It's fun too.
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Cowboi Way,
Hirap kunan lahat ng pictures. I am in the process of purchasing guitar cabinets and I feel that I am not confident to post pictures of my heads without matching cabinets. So, I will save the picture taking for later... However, I do have some pictures of my stuff from that thread on "First Baker B3 in the Philippines..."
Deltaslim,
For clarification and I do hope you do not mind answer the question "So what do you want?"
1) Specifically, what do you look for in a good sounding guitar?
2) For amps, what do you look for in a good sounding amp?
3) For effects, what do you look for in a good sounding effect?
Describe in detail. Thanks.
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So if your tastes continue to change, then you don't know what you want.
as much as i agree with a lot of things you say, i do not agree with the above statement.
reason: ever heard of a band or even a guitarist who used the same exact gear for 5, no, 3 albums worth? ...
well, at least the guitarists/bassists i like always evolve. they change gear, but they dont necessarily think their old one's suck... they just want a different sound as to bring a different inspiration.
YES... that is what it is all about. change of sound = new inspiration. the bass lines i made with my current fender bassman 250 are different with the basslines i made with my marshall 20 watt valvestate. dont get me wrong... eventhough i sold my marshall valvestate, there are days where i miss its tone along with my old Greco Mongrel J-bass copy.
the sound is just a means to better song writing and playing... not an ends to itself. as much as i love gear... i only buy it when it inspires my playing - and when i say inspire, i mean, the crowd goes wild and hears my bass out there. that wild cheering makes me wanna study more scales and learn tapping harmonies, so i can go on with the cycle.
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I think my taste changed over time. Used to be a "Boogie" guy. Now I am more of a "marshall" guy. I mean, I love amps derived from Marshall tone. I still lean towards the EL34-ish grind, while back in the early days, i wanted to sound more Recto.
But I want to own both Boogies and Marshalls, and everything in between.
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Deltaslim,
For clarification and I do hope you do not mind answer the question "So what do you want?"
1) Specifically, what do you look for in a good sounding guitar?
2) For amps, what do you look for in a good sounding amp?
3) For effects, what do you look for in a good sounding effect?
Describe in detail. Thanks.
Good thing I am not deltaslim. Personally, these questions would induce an OCD attack in me. When it comes to guitar, amps, efx, etc... I never really know what I want, like, or am looking for, until I hear and feel it. For example: my main guitar- I ended up buying it because I played it and liked how it felt and how it played, and I thought it sounded great even unplugged. I never tried to break down in detail why I liked it, it was enough for me to know that I do. I always thought that it was pointless and a waste of time to try to put into words the reasons why I like it, no need to explain it to myself. Besides, I had better things to do, like learning how to play the thing.
...But what I want evolves and also expands as I pursue my muse and absorb new musical influences. It's fun too.
I think my taste changed over time...But I want to own both Boogies and Marshalls, and everything in between.
I will third that thought. I think that as we develop as musicians, out preferences develop as well. But not so much as to completely abandon what we previously preferred, but more so that we develop an appreciation for something different.
Here is another personal example: My most recent rig consists of a guitar straight into a 4ch high-gain amp. That was my preference, I liked the searing lead tones, the heavy rhythm tones and the "dirty" clean tones. One night, due to circumstances, I had to play through someone else's lower-gain, guitar into pedals into a vintage Fender Bassman. Years ago, I most likely would have protested. But that night, I really appreciated the great, but different, tones that I was playing with. So, does this mean that I will ditch my 4ch high-gain amp for a pedal-amp set-up? No. This means that as I developed as a musician, I also developed an appreciation for different sounds and learned to use those sounds as my own.
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if it's up to me, i wouldn't buy those crappy guitars those manufacturers make... true, they make decent guitars but it's overpriced!!! you just pay for the name and not the quality. it's better to buy a hand made custom guitar for the same price than a les paul.... :-D
custom makers can put duncans to your guitar... better wood... +deep set neck tenon for attaching the neck and the body of the guitar for better tone and sustain... +25in scale!!! like what prs uses. 24 frets... overall, the guitar will be better made and will sound better :-D
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Deltaslim,
For clarification and I do hope you do not mind answer the question "So what do you want?"
1) Specifically, what do you look for in a good sounding guitar?
2) For amps, what do you look for in a good sounding amp?
3) For effects, what do you look for in a good sounding effect?
Describe in detail. Thanks.
Good thing I am not deltaslim. Personally, these questions would induce an OCD attack in me. When it comes to guitar, amps, efx, etc... I never really know what I want, like, or am looking for, until I hear and feel it. For example: my main guitar- I ended up buying it because I played it and liked how it felt and how it played, and I thought it sounded great even unplugged. I never tried to break down in detail why I liked it, it was enough for me to know that I do. I always thought that it was pointless and a waste of time to try to put into words the reasons why I like it, no need to explain it to myself. Besides, I had better things to do, like learning how to play the thing.
...But what I want evolves and also expands as I pursue my muse and absorb new musical influences. It's fun too.
I think my taste changed over time...But I want to own both Boogies and Marshalls, and everything in between.
I will third that thought. I think that as we develop as musicians, out preferences develop as well. But not so much as to completely abandon what we previously preferred, but more so that we develop an appreciation for something different.
ubersam - you took he words out of my mouth. :-)
alex - even if i did bother to answer now, it's just a snapshot in time. the answer was different yesterday, it would be different tomorrow, etc. due to the reasons cited.
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Ubersam,
I understand your experience. Let me rephrase it another way... What was common between your 4 channel high gain setup and the low gain bassman setup that really attracted you? Forget about timbre and all the scientific mumbo jumbo about how different a bassman is from your 4 channel high gain amp and just center on the common positive aspects of both.
IncX,
Now for the sake of deltaslim who is taking a bit of time to answer some questions (-- akala ko ba alam mo anong gusto mo? -- heh heh joke lang:)), I believe that we can try to describe that which attracts us to a guitar, effects or amp. I went thru the same process and Arie had guided me thru it. Alam mo kasi, if its not clear in your mind what you want then you will drift to whatever is new or in the moment. After clarity of mind, you now have to assess where to get what component of sound. For example, I get response from the guitar and not the amp. On the other hand, I get distortion from the amp rather than the guitar. Treble cut, I get from my tone pots and the amps eq controls, etc... But what makes me different from the person I was 20 years ago with regards to tone, I can estimate much better now what % of the certain factor that I want to adjust is affected by each component that contributes to that specific factor. At this stage, I can even tell by listening to your playing a guitar if it lacks response specially if you bend it.
True, artists change equipment due to timbre variations that they find new and refreshing at that point in time. But I never saw an artist downgrade to a hot cabs or lumanog guitar and claim that it provided him a refereshing sound. This just means that he is still maintaining a certain standard which is what I mean by clarity of mind. On the other hand, somebody who keeps on changing equipment every quarter sometimes sounding bad and sometimes sounding good, and playing a specific guitar for three months and then moving on to another guitar after that and then moving back to the same type of guitar after a year is clearly uncertain of him or herself or possibly he or she cannot hear the nuances and therefore treats everything as the same because no standard has been set.
In my 20 years buying guitar gear and equipment, I have reached a point where I just call up Cliff or Ken and ask if there is anything worthwhile that I should buy. Alam nila ibang timbre and hinahanap ko but they will makes sure that they recommend something that has the same basic characteristics that make all good sounding amps sound good and make all legendary guitars sound magical. Because they know my standard and they themselves CAN RELATE AND HAVE THE SAME STANDARD AS I HAVE, I can buy gear without ever actually hearing it. Proof my friends is the fact that Baker#55 is here and is killer sounding and proof is the Diezel Herbert both which I believe have a 90% chance of impressing and getting any guitarist to say that it sounds good. This phenomenon could never happen if KANYA KANYA lang iyan.
DISCLAIMER: It was Ken Volpe who recommended Baker. It was Cliff who actually pushed despite my intense skepticism because I thought guitars were KANYA KANYA. It turns out there are some guys who can prove that hindi KANYA KANYA. Ang impression ko nga sa kanila ay tingin nila sa akin ay DOUBTING THOMAS, PILOSOPO AT KUNG SINONG MAGALING NA HINDI NAMAN KAHARAP NG MGA PINAMAGANDANG MGA INSTRUMENTO NA PANG GITARA 24 HOURS A DAY.
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baker under ed roman yun diba??? :-D astig mga gitara niya :-o
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Nealyu,
Baker B3 po. Personally na gawa ni Gene Baker na mag-isa. Siya pa nga nag email sa akin ng scanned copy ng DHL na transmission slip.
Deltaslim,
So answer the questions with this point in time as reference... How can you tell me that you know what you want if you keep on changing from time to time? Its like somebody who stays in college for twenty years trying out all the courses and never accomplishing or making a career during in the 20 years of vacilation. Besides how can you know what to change unless you know what it is today?
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ahhhh... ang alam ko kasi ngayon under kay ed roman na baker or affiliated sila hehehehe
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In my 20 years buying guitar gear and equipment, I have reached a point where I just call up Cliff or Ken and ask if there is anything worthwhile that I should buy. Alam nila ibang timbre and hinahanap ko but they will makes sure that they recommend something that has the same basic characteristics that make all good sounding amps sound good and make all legendary guitars sound magical. Because they know my standard and they themselves CAN RELATE AND HAVE THE SAME STANDARD AS I HAVE, I can buy gear without ever actually hearing it. Proof my friends is the fact that Baker#55 is here and is killer sounding and proof is the Diezel Herbert both which I believe have a 90% chance of impressing and getting any guitarist to say that it sounds good. This phenomenon could never happen if KANYA KANYA lang iyan.
DISCLAIMER: It was Ken Volpe who recommended Baker. It was Cliff who actually pushed despite my intense skepticism because I thought guitars were KANYA KANYA. It turns out there are some guys who can prove that hindi KANYA KANYA. Ang impression ko nga sa kanila ay tingin nila sa akin ay DOUBTING THOMAS, PILOSOPO AT KUNG SINONG MAGALING NA HINDI NAMAN KAHARAP NG MGA PINAMAGANDANG MGA INSTRUMENTO NA PANG GITARA 24 HOURS A DAY.
Why tone is a hard subject to talk about:
1. Some people CANNOT hear the differences of different gear. Tone-deaf in other words.
2. Some people who cannot hear the differences are also entitled to personal gear choices.
3. Most people need experience to test different gear to know what works for him. Unfortunately our fields of experience differ greatly.
4. Most people cannot afford high end stuff.
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Randy,
So why endorse if you know you will change sound and taste? And thats the irony of being a paid artist if you know that you will change sound and taste. You should NOT endorse and this was my point.
baka naman sir yun "the best" that they were pertaining to was "the best" at that particular period? everything changes in time and so do preferences. for example, it would be impossible for vai to say that his ibanez jem is the best guitar there is when it was the 1970s. :-D
i just love ibanez....muah! :-D
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IncX,
Now for the sake of deltaslim who is taking a bit of time to answer some questions (-- akala ko ba alam mo anong gusto mo? -- heh heh joke lang:)), I believe that we can try to describe that which attracts us to a guitar, effects or amp. I went thru the same process and Arie had guided me thru it. Alam mo kasi, if its not clear in your mind what you want then you will drift to whatever is new or in the moment. After clarity of mind, you now have to assess where to get what component of sound. For example, I get response from the guitar and not the amp. On the other hand, I get distortion from the amp rather than the guitar. Treble cut, I get from my tone pots and the amps eq controls, etc... But what makes me different from the person I was 20 years ago with regards to tone, I can estimate much better now what % of the certain factor that I want to adjust is affected by each component that contributes to that specific factor. At this stage, I can even tell by listening to your playing a guitar if it lacks response specially if you bend it.
True, artists change equipment due to timbre variations that they find new and refreshing at that point in time. But I never saw an artist downgrade to a hot cabs or lumanog guitar and claim that it provided him a refereshing sound. This just means that he is still maintaining a certain standard which is what I mean by clarity of mind. On the other hand, somebody who keeps on changing equipment every quarter sometimes sounding bad and sometimes sounding good, and playing a specific guitar for three months and then moving on to another guitar after that and then moving back to the same type of guitar after a year is clearly uncertain of him or herself or possibly he or she cannot hear the nuances and therefore treats everything as the same because no standard has been set.
In my 20 years buying guitar gear and equipment, I have reached a point where I just call up Cliff or Ken and ask if there is anything worthwhile that I should buy. Alam nila ibang timbre and hinahanap ko but they will makes sure that they recommend something that has the same basic characteristics that make all good sounding amps sound good and make all legendary guitars sound magical. Because they know my standard and they themselves CAN RELATE AND HAVE THE SAME STANDARD AS I HAVE, I can buy gear without ever actually hearing it. Proof my friends is the fact that Baker#55 is here and is killer sounding and proof is the Diezel Herbert both which I believe have a 90% chance of impressing and getting any guitarist to say that it sounds good. This phenomenon could never happen if KANYA KANYA lang iyan.
DISCLAIMER: It was Ken Volpe who recommended Baker. It was Cliff who actually pushed despite my intense skepticism because I thought guitars were KANYA KANYA. It turns out there are some guys who can prove that hindi KANYA KANYA. Ang impression ko nga sa kanila ay tingin nila sa akin ay DOUBTING THOMAS, PILOSOPO AT KUNG SINONG MAGALING NA HINDI NAMAN KAHARAP NG MGA PINAMAGANDANG MGA INSTRUMENTO NA PANG GITARA 24 HOURS A DAY.
if you put it that way, i guess i can agree to that.
in a way theres something that we can call "good guitars" that every guitarist would like... there are just some factors that make them not choose the same guitar (i.e. looks/aesthetics, price, playability). if i was given a chance to buy say a baker (like yous, im sure thats an amazing guitar knowing how sensitive you are to tone), and also assuming that i have the money, i dont think i would go for it ... id definitely choose another guitar, although i cannot tell you what it is because i am a bassist and my soul is closely tied to the bass.
i agree with everything you said regarding distortion from the amp, treble cut, etc. (that is also why i dont understand ppl who insist on stomp boxes to have this "godly distortion," not to mention, ppl who compare their stomp boxes to tube amps, when it really is all about the amp).
i guess that "drifting to what is new" is what we call GAS attacks. im still in the stage where i am susceptible to GAS attacks, but not as bad compared to other ppl i know (they really dont have any idea what they want and change their set up everytime they have money). as for me, i keep a "consultation group" in my YM, so i could ask them before i blow money away. i still cant tell how a piece of gear will work in conjunction to my overall sound.
regarding artists downgrading... i guess its rather extreme to compare say a vintage strat and a lumanog downgrade... im not sure how you really consider downgrading whether it is pushing for digital or going for high end analog. i do not know anyone downgrading for one... maybe someone who checks out other equipment from the other point of view. billy corgan for one used pro tools on adore but avoided them on machina... i really dont consider it downgrading, its just "trying out new flavors." i also read about some bassists who choose musicman stingray over expensive warwicks and foderas.... do you consider that downgrading? after all, they own both brands.
this is a very healthy discussion, and eventhough i am a bassist at heart, the ideas thrown around are about tone - something both bassists and guitarists strive ... its just, basses tend to be ignored.
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Skunky,
It would really be difficult to classify people. For example, under the 4 categories above, where would you classify deltaslim? Answering that question is dangerous and pointless kasi wala naman AAMIN. Rather, I believe that when people are exposed no matter the level of experience with a good guitar they will BE ABLE to hear and tell the difference in an AB setup. I am an optimist despite knowing the ugly truth at the back of mind that some may not be able to hear.
Gutz 3110,
Since you mentioned Steve Vai, at the beginning of this thread I made mention, despite 20 years of JEM guitars; nothing made by ibanez to date has topped Steve Vai's FLO and EVO. Maybe BO. I dunno. But this is testimony that when these guitars were discovered by Vai in the early 90s, they have been his stable for the past 15 years!!! I can imagine how many thousands of JEMs that Ibanez has produced in the last 15 years and yet not be able to rival these two specific guitars. Conversely, how can Steve Vai say that these two guitars are the best up way past the year 2000? It is so because he knew what he wanted early on despite numerous succeeding JEM variations in color and pickups. The funny thing is despite some anecdotes here by people saying that tastes change, I have never heard Steve Vai say it in person or declare that his taste changes. Rather, the impression everytime I read an article about Vai, watch is video, or his DVD is that the guy knows what he wants.
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Inc X,
I suggest you talk to Eric Reyes. Low key guy but I think he knows a lot about good sounding bass guitars and stuff related to them. Not too active but never declares kanya kanya. I think nasa gitna siya and will give a more objective point of view.
I do not mean to be be poignant about this matter but please understand that based on my experience, hindi talaga ma-apply sa akin ang kanya kanya. Good sounding equipment like good tasting food will sound and taste good to a great majority of people. Regarding the analogy, the Baker#55 is that far from Gibson USA. Its like comparing a Japanese Ibanez Prestige versus a local Santa Mesa made electric guitar. So in a certain sense I am not exagerating. The only problem with the Baker#55 is that only so few of these guitars will be made. Not only because Gene has limited capacity but also because Cliff and Gene have to scout for wood before starting a batch. Hindi iyan parang pwede ka lang mag-order sa isang US wood mill on line, tapos gawa na. They personally inspect the planks and stash away until another specific batch of wood comes along or find which they think will complement the current stash of wood before they start on another batch of the Fire model. Usually the batches are small from 5-10 guitars at a time only. If its any indication, I think Gene Baker B3 only number around 100 pieces at best for the last 3 years.
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....... The funny thing is despite some anecdotes here by people saying that tastes change, I have never heard Steve Vai say it in person or declare that his taste changes. Rather, the impression everytime I read an article about Vai, watch is video, or his DVD is that the guy knows what he wants.
I have ... a masterclass clinic somewhere in europe ...saw it in youtube or something.
... he said ... he used to hate blues...now he loves it and is influenced by it....go figure...maybe one of the reason why he's using a Fender now.
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Good point. Wish I had saved the picture of Steve Vai playing a PRS. But still, let me qualify that the scope my discussion is limited to tastes with regards to equipment choices and not musical styles.
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I guess it all boils down to what you are most comfortable playing with... Even if there are better or more high end gear around if you are not comfortable playing them then why bother... Most artist endorsed gear are taylored to thier needs. I know Vai and Satriani were very closely involved with the development of thier signature amps. It just so happens that artists do evolve and and improve on thier crafts ("Thank God"). Can you imagine Vai doing the same thing over and over again on every album? Everything in this world has room for improvement so dont fret if they change thier gear from time to time it means they are doing something that they didnt before...
Change is the only thing that is constant in the world...
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Well, it takes deltaslim so long to answer. I cannot blame him because it is a really difficult question to answer specially for someone who changes tastes frequently. Funny, for someone who changes tastes so often he has a number of regrettable gear sold based on his thread, around 6 pieces of gear I think. As of today, I have no regrets over any of my gear sold in the past 20 years of my guitar playing.
I will attempt to answer the question of "What to look for in a good sounding guitar?" which is really nothing new. But before that, have you ever noticed how artist promote their new signature guitars?
Their promotion techniques (with my usual snide remarks):
1) Saying its sounds great e.g. timbre reference (Hey, that was the same thing that another artist said about the timbre of his guitar except that he was promoting another guitar company)
2) Features exclusive to the artist e.g. Musicman designed this trem for me, they profiled my frankenstein neck, they put in the same dings as my old 61 tele, etc (I wish your special feature made your signature guitar sound better when I tried it. It didn't and it just feels like you and I am not you.)
3) I have new pickups e.g. this is Evolution II, YJMs are for neck, FRED 2 etc. (Wait a minute, you got famous with specially wound Steve Blucher pickups and stock DiMarzio HS3s and PAFs. So are your record sales down and trying to promote your own pickups to make up for a short fall in record sales?)
4) Its a limited edition e.g. 200 pieces only (Somebody forget to mention why they decided to limit quantity so that they can raise the price)
5) Aesthetics e.g. It has 100 led lights in a see-thru acrylic body (Ok... I thought you had your led lights thing in your previous model's fingerboard? Gimmick not enough? Does it really sound better with more puke lights?)
6) Its like my orignal vintage strat with some personal tweaks (Which turns out to be one of best selling lines of well known Stratocaster Company, so I guess Mr. Guitar Player soon realized that his prize possession is too valuable in terms of sound and money to tour with because it took him 25 years to finally decide to have a signature with this well known compnay)
7) It took 100 tries for (Insert Guitar Company Name) and I thank them for not giving up (Somehow I don't know whether this means that he gave up first in frustration or the guitar company is really incapable)
8) Hey this is my best V ever (How about that good sounding Gibson Korina Flying V that you keep forgeting to mention? But you already had 2 other Vs from 2 other well known companies, how different can this be?)
9) This is the last Strat prototype that Mr. Pride and Joy approved before he died (Huh? That was a prototype. How come he got onto another Japanese company's endorsement add 5 years earlier with a Strat knock-off)
10) This is Mr. GNR approved signature (How come the guitar he uses on the instructional video has more flame and looks prettier than this one in the dealer's store?)
In contrast this is how local luthiers promote their guitars:
1) Its cheap and will rival Fill in the Blank Guitar company (Except when you ask them for a specific Blank Guitar Company to model, they have not actually physcially studied one in person)
2) It will be made out of local wood and its a great chance to promote local wood (When you compare it to other Asian made guitars with the traditional woods, it does not sound as good and it weighs a ton)
3) It will be one-off made by me for you (It becomes hard to sell after the honeymoon period and you realize that you want to go back to the traditional strat, tele, gibson or prs)
4) Look at the wood planks, you get to choose your grain (Which after a while starts to look all the same because everybody gets to look like furniture)
5) I will do a unique shape for you (Which later turns out to be unbalanced and uncomfortable)
6) I will put in a lot of inlays (Trying hard to look like an artpiece but without any artistic resale value)
7) Tweaked to all your specifications and requirements (And later on you realize that there was a better feature in some other well thought non-custom guitar that just makes your custom so wrong)
8) Your choice of finish (It turns out not the way you envisoned your finish)
9) May Guarantee (He is later on too busy to repair the problem because he has so many custom orders to fulfill)
10) I was an apprentice by so and so Master Luthier (It turns out that Master Luthier is never around to confirm if what his apprentice is doing is correct; whats worse Master Luthier is never around to certify that his apprentice can make a good guitar)
This is just me poking some fun but endorsing and making guitars is more serious than this and usually decisions are made with one factor that makes everything logical which is either the lack of money or the need for money.
What artists and luthiers often forget (albeit conveniently) to elaborate and guarantee is the sound character of a guitar...
As you may well know that I believe I have a guitar with one of the best sound character in the world. This is the list of people who have tried and enjoyed the Baker#55 other than myself. Arie, Lito, Steve, Mike, Gabi, Miks, Essie, Tinnie, Kakoi, Odie and PJ. The only person who did not like it was Atz. 13-1 ain't such a bad ratio. Now if you look carefully, this is a broad range of people with different styles, different degrees of proficiency (practice time) and I would initially say have nothing in common. In short KANYA KANYA. How is it possible at the minimum they say its a great sounding guitar and at the maximum cause them to do crazy things like sell their best sounding Gibson to buy a Baker? I will give you an answer hindi KANYA KANYA ang guitar character -- timbre, features and looks may differ but these factors are NOT what defines a really good sounding guitar.
So what does?
I will stick by the following criteria which I have posted before and in no means exhaustive but I believe if you get all 10, I can guarantee you a good sounding guitar that you will keep for a long time.
Here goes:
1) Rich sounding notes with overtones that reinforce the fundamental -- a three dimensional soundstage whether in clean or overdriven mode.
2) Pick attack defined versus the sustaining note.
3) When a string is bent, the note for a time drops in volume but suddenly increases in volume at the top of the bend. Even louder than the initial
pick attack volume. The bent note at the top of the bend is punchy and powerful not flat or weak.
4) Chordal volume does not drown the guitar when you suddenly switch to a lick or riff.
5) When you constantly bend and release a note, the guitar weeps and wails as if there was a subtle wah-wah effect.
6) Balanced volume across all strings.
7) So soft to play even with heavy gauges as if you were playing one gauge lighter. The guitar reacts to every playing nuance. It can be subtle
and mean when you want it to depending on your technique.
8) Can punch thru a band with a bass player, another rhythm guitar player and a keyboard player without having to compete on an amp volume basis.
9) Notes on the upper frets do not sound thin and choked.
10) Most importantly, the guitar magically surprises you everytime you play because it produces different sounds e.g. squeals, picking nuances,etc.
Guess what was Cliff's answer about Baker#55:
"It will do all those chores quite easily. It's designed and built for those tasks."
And as much as I want to prove him wrong, I cannot because number#55 delivers. If most of you feel that I am not an authority then I encourage you to ask these three people who have spent the most time with the guitar and who have admirable skill in music: Arie, Miks and Kakoi.
I wanted this to be a fun and educational discourse and not a venue to brag about #55 but rather to give people who do not have as much collective experience trying out guitars a rough guideline on how to choose and pick a good sounding guitar. When#41 arrives, it will be subjected to the same stringent criteria.
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Ubersam,
I understand your experience. Let me rephrase it another way... What was common between your 4 channel high gain setup and the low gain bassman setup that really attracted you? Forget about timbre and all the scientific mumbo jumbo about how different a bassman is from your 4 channel high gain amp and just center on the common positive aspects of both.
Two aspects, note clarity and response (vibe/feel).
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Ubersam,
Amazingly those are the two most important things that I look for in an amp and I don't have a bassman and I don't have a 4 channel high gain amp. The other thing I look for is LAMBOT sa amp. It shouldn't be stiff sounding.
See? We have something in common.
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As you may well know that I believe I have a guitar with one of the best sound character in the world.
You're like a kid with a new toy. Parang lagi kang naghahanap ng chance to announce that you've got a Baker. Just my observation. You should indeed be glad you have one... but do you have to keep on bringing it up?
Guess what was Cliff's answer about Baker#55: "It will do all those chores quite easily. It's designed and built for those tasks."
I like Cliff because he is responsive to emails/calls, keeps you in the loop regarding what you're looking for, etc. However, remember that he's still in business of promoting his guitars, amps, etc. He told you that #55 is special, and that the answer to your search is #55. That's the same type of praise he gave about #59 when I was inquiring about it -- before Miks snatched it from my clutches... :-D When I asked about #59, he said "That Baker is built to my specs and is out of our best wood stash. No solid body will out perform that guitar. IMO." Sounds familiar? Now that doesn't mean that you should now be skeptical about what he says. He's still one of the most credible characters in the industry... just don't get caught up in the marketing man, and stop name-dropping.
Excited na ako sa "Earth" mo. Pictures naman and clips when you get it.
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PRSman aka PinoyBoy (I think),
At least I dont announce my baker on Gear page. Heh Heh. You've got two toys. I only got one.
For your info, #55 and #59 are from the same plank of wood. At least thats what Cliff told Miks, so no surprise here if he has the same comments for both. Don't know which specific body parts had the same planks though.
I only name drop if I have to because as I qualified if you don't believe me, you can ask other people who have better credibility than I. Its that simple. Unfortunately, I, you and Miks have a baker b3, so we can more or less relate to each other but for the rest who may be curious, its better for them to ask authoritative people who don't have the Baker so that they can discount our bias.
Ako rin excited because I want a P90 driven korina body that has the same character as the#55. I will leave the clips to Miks when it arrives. I also want to tempt him more. Heh Heh
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Ok OT and this was probably asked a million times but what the heck (since most of the experts in this forum are active in this thread)
I've just sold my Blues Jr and now am ampless. :|
I'm planning to get a tube amp in the future if I come up with the money na (it's a tight budget)
Now all I'm asking is what would fill the following requirements:
-must be within my budget of 40K max
-can handle huge events (i'm looking at 30-40W)
-must be locally available (don't wanna go through the shipping, waiting and taxing process again...)
-can be considered as a decent clean tone amp
Thanks and please wag nyo ko awayin. :lol:
To give you guys a hint I'm wanting a Fender HotRod Dlx. I'm really into(or probably "ok na") with that not so expensive fender clean tone (not those blackface or silverface cleans which are way so expensive...and rare hehe)
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Ok OT and this was probably asked a million times but what the heck (since most of the experts in this forum are active in this thread)
I've just sold my Blues Jr and now am ampless. :|
I'm planning to get a tube amp in the future if I come up with the money na (it's a tight budget)
Now all I'm asking is what would fill the following requirements:
-must be within my budget of 40K max
-can handle huge events (i'm looking at 30-40W)
-must be locally available (don't wanna go through the shipping, waiting and taxing process again...)
-can be considered as a decent clean tone amp
Thanks and please wag nyo ko awayin. :lol:
To give you guys a hint I'm wanting a Fender HotRod Dlx. I'm really into(or probably "ok na") with that not so expensive fender clean tone (not those blackface or silverface cleans which are way so expensive...and rare hehe)
Get a rivera for Chrissakes...
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Ok OT and this was probably asked a million times but what the heck (since most of the experts in this forum are active in this thread)
I've just sold my Blues Jr and now am ampless. :|
I'm planning to get a tube amp in the future if I come up with the money na (it's a tight budget)
Now all I'm asking is what would fill the following requirements:
-must be within my budget of 40K max
-can handle huge events (i'm looking at 30-40W)
-must be locally available (don't wanna go through the shipping, waiting and taxing process again...)
-can be considered as a decent clean tone amp
Thanks and please wag nyo ko awayin. :lol:
To give you guys a hint I'm wanting a Fender HotRod Dlx. I'm really into(or probably "ok na") with that not so expensive fender clean tone (not those blackface or silverface cleans which are way so expensive...and rare hehe)
Get a rivera for Chrissakes...
ok, where can I probably test/get one?Thanks.
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Deltaslim,
So answer the questions with this point in time as reference... How can you tell me that you know what you want if you keep on changing from time to time? Its like somebody who stays in college for twenty years trying out all the courses and never accomplishing or making a career during in the 20 years of vacilation. Besides how can you know what to change unless you know what it is today?
Alex - Let's put it this way. I don't think the subject is important or objective enough for me to bother providing you a detailed answer. :-D Suffice to say that our knowledge of the world, including tone, keeps on growing. And that's true for all the different types of guitars because they're all unique instruments, with their own voice. So, my ideal Strat tone has evolved and will continue to evolve. My ideal Les Paul tone has evolved and will continue to evolve. My ideal Tele tone has evolved and will continue to evolve. It's not people's fault cuz it's epistemological. Besides, humans know more than they can express. Some things cannot be expressed or codified!
Well, it takes deltaslim so long to answer. I cannot blame him because it is a really difficult question to answer specially for someone who changes tastes frequently.
Hehe... I was holed up in Tagaytay conducting a training/workshop for the OPAPP trying to think of better ways to find peace and development in the country, especially in Mindanao. ;-) Unfrotunately, I am one of those guys who have to work hard (dobol-job pa nga!) to put food on the table for my family, ensure my kids get a good education and we all stay healthy. And then, maybe, just maybe, I might have leftover money for gear and have time to talk gear and make it appear as if I know what I'm talking about and that my humble knowledge and opinions matter.
Funny, for someone who changes tastes so often he has a number of regrettable gear sold based on his thread, around 6 pieces of gear I think. As of today, I have no regrets over any of my gear sold in the past 20 years of my guitar playing.
What's funnier is that I don't keep count but you do!
Alex - Just be happpy with your accomplishments and your knowledge and HELP others gain knowledge on tone/gear so that they find what works for THEM. Open other people's eyes to what's out there. But respect their choices when they don't go for the same things as you do.
Money opens a lot of options but it doesn't ensure better decisions. A rich dumb guy will have a lot more options but is more likely to get bad tone than a poor but knowledgeable guy with less options.
Speaking of money, I'll go back to real work now... gotta bring home the bacon...
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PRSman aka PinoyBoy (I think)
The one... the only... :-D The name is Eric. Paano nga ba kasing magpalit ng forum nickname?
At least I dont announce my baker on Gear page. Heh Heh. You've got two toys. I only got one.
Huy ha... and hindi yung B3 ang in-announce ko... yung Bluesmaster... :-D Couldn't help it. But hey, it was in a thread about Bluesmaster owners di ba? So it was appropriate and not pilit at siningit. Yun nga ba yun?
For your info, #55 and #59 are from the same plank of wood. At least thats what Cliff told Miks, so no surprise here if he has the same comments for both. Don't know which specific body parts had the same planks though.
That might indeed be true, but even then, no two guitars are ever built exactly the same way, so there can't be two "bests" out there. It's no big deal really, because I do believe that Cliff's not out there to deceive people. We all know that what he really meant was that both are darn awesome guitars. It's just funny that mukhang every guitar leaving his shop is considered "special" (gaya nga ng sinabi ni pareng Deltaslim).
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That might indeed be true, but even then, no two guitars are ever built exactly the same way, so there can't be two "bests" out there. It's no big deal really, because I do believe that Cliff's not out there to deceive people. We all know that what he really meant was that both are darn awesome guitars. It's just funny that mukhang every guitar leaving his shop is considered "special" (gaya nga ng sinabi ni pareng Deltaslim).
Ding.... ding... ding!!!
"What did he get, Johnny!
Ang hirap naman ng may matinding GAS dito sa Manila... Una kailangan FIRST to own ka! Tapos the ONLY one to have one! And then kailangan the BEST specimen yung iyo! Tapos ngayon kailangan "SPECIAL" pa! Waaaaah!
Life is hard, and then we die
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DELTA, BACON IS BAD DONT BRING IT HOME.
Hahahaha. Anyway .. ALEX SELL ME THE MARSHALL... I WANT IT.
Lol .. on a lighter note i dont know what this thread is about but i think all our bakers are different. Mine has wings, Alex's has teeth, and Eric's has ostritch like legs. Im not afraid of heights so i think mine is the best (why i bought it). Eric likes fast things with names like diablo .. etc.. so hes got the ostrich baker. Alex likes to dominate ... thus the tiger baker. ! Lol ... sorry that entire paragraph meant nothing.
I want a wizard amp or a /13 or an xtc.
Why xtc - coz its cool and alot of people use it (vai ex and brad whitford)
i want a wizard coz Brad whitford uses it
I want a /13 because Brad whitford uses it.
LOL. My point is any manufacturer will send joe perry and brad whitford an amp for free just to put it on their webpage that they are "users". Well never really know what they use in the studio or in the road... They allow it coz they get free amps. Its that easy. IF ANYONE WANTS TO GIVE ME SOMETHING FOR FREE JUST TO SAY I USE .. OK LANG SAKIN! :D
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Ang hirap naman ng may matinding GAS dito sa Manila... Una kailangan FIRST to own ka! Tapos the ONLY one to have one! And then kailangan the BEST specimen yung iyo! Tapos ngayon kailangan "SPECIAL" pa! Waaaaah!
Wala yan sa lolo ko...
Life is hard, and then we die
Yup, and none of our stuff really matters in the Kingdom beyond. So dun na lang tayo sa kabila at baka puwedeng ibitbit ang gear dun... :-D
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Lol .. on a lighter note i dont know what this thread is about but i think all our bakers are different. Mine has wings, Alex's has teeth, and Eric's has ostritch like legs. Im not afraid of heights so i think mine is the best (why i bought it). Eric likes fast things with names like diablo .. etc.. so hes got the ostrich baker. Alex likes to dominate ... thus the tiger baker. ! Lol ... sorry that entire paragraph meant nothing.
Hoooy... mine has balls the size of 4x12 cabs... :-D
Natawa ako dun a. Wings. Whisper... with wings!
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Inc X,
I suggest you talk to Eric Reyes. Low key guy but I think he knows a lot about good sounding bass guitars and stuff related to them. Not too active but never declares kanya kanya. I think nasa gitna siya and will give a more objective point of view.
I do not mean to be be poignant about this matter but please understand that based on my experience, hindi talaga ma-apply sa akin ang kanya kanya. Good sounding equipment like good tasting food will sound and taste good to a great majority of people. Regarding the analogy, the Baker#55 is that far from Gibson USA. Its like comparing a Japanese Ibanez Prestige versus a local Santa Mesa made electric guitar. So in a certain sense I am not exagerating. The only problem with the Baker#55 is that only so few of these guitars will be made. Not only because Gene has limited capacity but also because Cliff and Gene have to scout for wood before starting a batch. Hindi iyan parang pwede ka lang mag-order sa isang US wood mill on line, tapos gawa na. They personally inspect the planks and stash away until another specific batch of wood comes along or find which they think will complement the current stash of wood before they start on another batch of the Fire model. Usually the batches are small from 5-10 guitars at a time only. If its any indication, I think Gene Baker B3 only number around 100 pieces at best for the last 3 years.
mind PM-ing me the guys nos or ym? ... he sounds like a guy who can really help me out. i always like those guys who dont toot their own horn (like EJbasses - this guy is one freaking genius. i met him personally and still no tooting about his Hikari's horn).
i read your criteria on what a good guitar is... and yeah... i dont think ive ever played a good guitar *lol* i think i got only 2 and one half out of 10 of those characteristics you posted. that must be one hell of a guitar.
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Relax lang kayo. Here is a better way to explain things.
1. People want to own expensive stuff because in MOST cases, they beat their cheaper counterparts. Ever wondered why Toyota and nissan never wins against Ferrari during the F1 races?
2. People want to own expensive stuff because chances are, you'll have more unique stuff. Status symbol if I may put it correctly.
3. Expensive stuff = pogi points
Now let us redefine "EXPENSIVE". I don't understand why people keep yakking that a $3k axe is considered expensive if a violin bow meant for professional use, which is made out of a long plank of wood and horse hair, can cost $2k.
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Now let us redefine "EXPENSIVE". I don't understand why people keep yakking that a $3k axe is considered expensive if a violin bow meant for professional use, which is made out of a long plank of wood and horse hair, can cost $2k.
Sinabi mo. The baby grand piano I want is $40K-$50K. So sabi ko sa mga anak ko mag-gitara na lang sila... :-D
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Ever wondered why Toyota and nissan never wins against Ferrari during the F1 races?
Well because Nissan does not compete in F1 and Toyota is new to F1. But everybody says that Toyota is doing extremely well for a newbie.
Wala lang. :evil:
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Here goes:
1) Rich sounding notes with overtones that reinforce the fundamental -- a three dimensional soundstage whether in clean or overdriven mode.
2) Pick attack defined versus the sustaining note.
3) When a string is bent, the note for a time drops in volume but suddenly increases in volume at the top of the bend. Even louder than the initial
pick attack volume. The bent note at the top of the bend is punchy and powerful not flat or weak.
4) Chordal volume does not drown the guitar when you suddenly switch to a lick or riff.
5) When you constantly bend and release a note, the guitar weeps and wails as if there was a subtle wah-wah effect.
6) Balanced volume across all strings.
7) So soft to play even with heavy gauges as if you were playing one gauge lighter. The guitar reacts to every playing nuance. It can be subtle
and mean when you want it to depending on your technique.
8) Can punch thru a band with a bass player, another rhythm guitar player and a keyboard player without having to compete on an amp volume basis.
9) Notes on the upper frets do not sound thin and choked.
10) Most importantly, the guitar magically surprises you everytime you play because it produces different sounds e.g. squeals, picking nuances,etc.
1) How rich in harmonic overtones? 2x richer? 3x? How does it reinforce the fundamental? As if I'm hitting the root and octave at the same time? Like a chorus effect?
2) How defined? Should I hear the pick hitting the string? I think every guitar does this. Well at least all that I had. At some point, it annoys me.
3) How low should the volume of note go before picking up again? How loud should it be afterwards? 2x louder? 3x? .5x? How punchy and powerful? Define powerful?
4) Are there guitars that changes in volume if playing chords against riffs? What do you mean by drown?
5) Shouldn't continous release and bend produce that effect? You mean frequencies are accentuated when you bend and release like a wah when rocking the pedal?
6) I have yet to hear a decent guitar that does not have a balanced volume across all strings when unplugged. When plugged, it's the pickup's responsibility.
7) I also think this is the pickup's responsibility. Re softness of the string. This I agree on. Some guitars just feels easier to play.
8) Yeah, right on
9) ah eh, I dont get this. This is personal preference.
Rock on :evil:
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Ok, now that the "I challenge you" and "I take up your challenge" parts have been segregated, I hope we could continue our discussion about this topic. WITHOUT all the "pre-fight" talk, of course.
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Would you guys remember who endorsed first with an artist signature series?
For signature amp, I think it was EVH with the Peavey 5150.
For signature guitar speakers, I think it was Zakk Wylde with the Black Label EVMs.
For signature guitars? I cannot remember. Possibly Fender or Ibanez.
For signature FX? Could it be Digitech?
For signature strings? Either Zakk Wylde or Dave Mustaine?
For signature pickups, I think it would be DiMarzio with Satriani's FRED.
Please feel free to add and correct. Thanks.
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Would you guys remember who endorsed first with an artist signature series?
For signature guitars? I cannot remember. Possibly Fender or Ibanez.
For signature FX? Could it be Digitech?
Please feel free to add and correct. Thanks.
I think Gibson? Because 60's lang yata may Tal Farlow model na sila
Diba DOD pa sila nun? Not so sure, 16 lang ako i wasnt around YET hehehe
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whatever happened to pickup thy guitar and rock?...i guess when slash picked up his first guitar...he didn't worry about the price tags and decals and all that jazz...he just wanted to rock....he wanted to blow the people's minds away...honestly when i hear his guitar tone...there are some fret buzzes in his gibson les paul but it still sounds good...there is no such things as perfect tone...heck nothing is perfect...it's how we get around the imperfections that make us great players and good musicians...when we started playing or putting up our own bands we didn't worry about this stuff...who's got the most expensive gear...oh...i'm the only one with this in the country...where is the spirit that drove us to play the music that we loved?...to be considered unique even though we were outcasts...where has all that gone?....
i guess rock n' roll really is dead....
ang drama ko...godddammit.... :?
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Nice name dude. Yeah rock n roll is dead. I guess people are tired of hearing guitar driven rock though I like the new metal stuff. If you look at it; Britney Spears probably made more money than Slash. She endorses Pepsi and does not endorse a microphone. By the way Slash has hundreds of Les Pauls, so he did not start out with them but somehow acquired so many. I wonder why. Thats still rock n roll to me. Just as the 50s and 60s and 70s has passed so will our rock n roll music. We would probably end up like RJ -- nothing bad about that. As I said before, I will not pay US$3,000 for a Slash Gibson Model that sounds bad. As you pointed out, he never started with expensive guitars and actually began with a Max Guitars Gibson Knock off that even looked better than Gibson.
I have said this before -- Aside from musical composition which I highlighted as the most important. We have to fix our guitar tone. Because majority of Filipinos don't want to or cannot stand buzz saw guitar sound and as the years go by it gets worse. More buzz saw and more harsh highs. I rather have better sounding equipment than considered unique.
You ask me where the spirit is? I say look into your composition dude.
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wasnt the les paul the first signature guitar?
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this thread is useless w/out pixtyor. :-D
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wasnt the les paul the first signature guitar?
Ay onga pala >_< yung "Log" nga pala na rinedesign ng gibson para sa kaniya hehehe
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wasnt the les paul the first signature guitar?
Im sure nauna diyan ang Gibson nick lucas L-00 :-)
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i agree with you totally sir...thanks...i actually got it from a pink floyd song...the floyd is one of the greatest bands on my list...i love gilmour's tone...he's the tone monster for me...strats/emg's and hiwatts...so heavenly....
tone is the biggest factor indeed in a guitar player's arsenal...i remember when i started playing...i just wanted the guitar to be noisy...and through the years...playing with different guitars(started on les paul's, strats, superstrats)...i found my way to that holy grail...
thanks again sir for enlightening us :-)...
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nice nick, from relics eh? im a floyd fan too, set the controls to the heart of the sun.
anyway going back, i agree with your point. i think most brands or signature models these artists are endorsing doesnt even come close to what they're using. maybe a little. it still goes down to the wood, construction and the tone, regardless of what it says in the headstock.
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yes...artist signature guitars aren't really for everybody...that's why they're signatures...it's made for the artist themselves...it's what these artists want in their guitars...and sometimes(well, most of the time)...what they want isn't necessarilly what we want...and mass production really f**ks up the market of these signatures when the market versions are made and released...that's why i don't really have any desire for these artist versions...the only that's painful to see is how we can be so critical with some of the products these artists endorse...i mean music is supposed to be about being open minded...if we hate them so much let's just don't use them...i guess the filipino mentality na "bakit di na lang ako yung kinuha nila para magendorse?...kaya ko rin naman yung ginagawa nila ah..." rears it's ugly head...in the end we can't really blame vai and van halen...as we all say...money is the root of all evil... :mrgreen:
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thanks mr. vishnu...may forum ba dito para sa mga floyd fans?as you can see i'm a newbie...if wala let's start one...thanks... :-D
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ot: there used to be.. its somewhere here in guitarcentral, i think twas about the pulse concert
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I LIKE PANSIT CANTON AS IT IS CHEAP AND SATISFYING BUT WILL NOT REFUSE PANSIT CANTON SERVED AT ANY FANCY SCMANCY PLACE AS LONG AS I CAN AFFORD IT.
pareho clang nakakabusog at masarap para sa akin,so the fuss about boutique gears and whatnots is not really that big deal to me.
if you can afford it thats fine,if not that is still ok just as long as you enjoy what you play.
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What Brand of Pancit Canton do you eat?
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thanks mr. vishnu...may forum ba dito para sa mga floyd fans?as you can see i'm a newbie...if wala let's start one...thanks... :-D
yeah count me in too!hehe. :lol: I just love Gilmour's solo in Comfortably Numb at the Pulse concert, epic!
anyway, I use the DG20, sorry dude pero I couldn't stop myself from wanting the pro series set instead of just getting a set of SA's hehe. :lol:
BTW, what about EJ's signature strat, a lot of people say that it could probably be one of the best strats ever made.
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it makes the price higher most of the time...??!!!
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it makes the price higher most of the time...??!!!
binuhay ang patay...
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6 Cycle Mind. Each got a house & lot and a car for the Tanduay deal.
Natawa lang ako dito haha. God I hate that band.
Great thread, what I wanted to say in response was said in the first page by someone else.
This is awesome- no one's automatically angry by default or being an oppressed victim. (But I stopped reading at page 6 ata.)
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All about money and prestige. [/thread]
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This is a good read!