Soundproofing/Room Acoustics Treatment thread

[killikillers]

nasa eyp nga 
post ko narin para sa iba 

IGROS MARKETING CORPORATION
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[killikillers]

3. if you dont want to do it right then dont do it all (and the right way is always the most expensive when it comes to stopping sound). sayang ang pera at wala ka naman makukuhang benefit.

true, may friend ako na gumastos ng malaki pero mali yung soundproofing methods na ginamit niya
ganon parin, walang nagawa yung soundproof, nasayang lang pera niya... ang kalat pati sumikip pa yung kwarto niya

basahin mo yung soundproofing thread dun sa pro-audio, malaking tulong...

kausapin ko din si louie azcona ng happyjoey/publico para humingi ng advice, marami narin ata experice yun sa homestudio pati sound proofing eh 

[musicianurse28]

@musicianurse28: bro masasabi ko lang and dont take it personally:

1. dont do anything that you listed or whatever else you are planning unless you understand about sound, mass, air and physics. nasa internet naman lahat ng kailangan mo matutunan pero hindi lahat tama. minsan kahit common sense natin mali pagdating sa acoustics.

2. bilin mo muna tong book na to http://www.amazon.com/Home-Recording-Studio-Build-Like/dp/1598630342 then read it over and over. i think i read it over 20 times in the past 3 years already and i still have a lot to learn.

3. if you dont want to do it right then dont do it all (and the right way is always the most expensive when it comes to stopping sound). sayang ang pera at wala ka naman makukuhang benefit.

please buy the book first and it will answer all your questions (hint: may pdf version yan dati na downloadable - hanapin mo lang)

You're absolutely right sir peeves! Thanks for the tip, I'll take it from you! Mahirap kasi minsan yung maraming sabi sabi eh. Di ko na tuloy malaman kung alin ang tama at mali sa pag sound proof. BTW, yung idea na nilagay ko came from a friend's advice. Ganun lang daw kasimple yung kanya eh.

Salamat ulit sir peeves! Goodluck and congrats to your upcoming music room!

[bulok]

gaano nakakatulong ang gypsum board o hardiflex sa soundproofing? acoustic material lang ba ang gypsum board hindi pang soundproof? balak ko maglagay sa ceiling kasi

[peeves24]

malaki naitutulong ng gypsum KUNG TAMA ANG KABIT pero pwede ring useless sya kung hindi mo susundin yung proper construction methods sa soundproofing...yung proper construction mababasa dun sa book na nirefer ko sa taas

[bulok]

hirap naman magsoundproof  pero hindi ko naman kaylangan na todo soundproof, kylangan ko lang mabawasan yung ingay na lalabas ng mga 30 to 40% siguro para hindi makabulahaw... yung ceiling lang talaga problema ko gawa ply wood lang tapos may kaunting space yero na.. kanina lang bumili ako ng hardiflex mga 1/4 yung thickness nya at sana makatulong yun, dodoblehin ko yung kisame tapos my rubber na nakadikit sa hardiflex na ikakabit, makakatulong kaya yun?

[peeves24]

actually mga 30 to 40% nga lang ang mababawas kung tama ang gagawin mong soundproofing with 2 layers of gypsum na room within room construction.

wala din maitutulong yung paglalagay mo ng hardiflex sa ceiling kasi unang una hindi airtight yung room mo

[bulok]

ganito style ng room.. concrete yung pader, yung kisame ply wood lang yung pinto narra nagpagawa ako sa kaibigan ko, solid na pinto tapos nilagyan ko ng rubber na may palaman na foam yung mga edge para walang siwang pag sinarado(ginaya ko sa internet) tapos yun na nga ang napansin ko na weak part ng room yung kisame, kase plywood lang..

sabagay nakabili na din ako ng materials para sa kisame kaya no choice install na lang... hehe

[pualux]

I was wondering if lumulusot ba yung bass/kick drum sounds sa floor semento approximately 3 meters thick, baka kasi magreklamo yung mga tao sa baba, kasi pag may didrill, rinig talaga sa lower floor, this is ina condo pala.

makakatulong kaya yung riser?

and I was also thinkin bout making a drum booth within my room, yung parang glass lang

something like this


makakatulong ba'to sa pag attenuate ng volumes perceived sa labas ng room ko? by the way my room is like a room within a room since my room is only part of a bigger room(condo unit). Hindi naman lumalagpas yung sound sa neighbors namin, nababother lang yung mga kasambahay ko...

and I'm more worried about how the bass sounds might penetrate the floor and disturb the neighbors below


any suggestions? ideas?


eto pa

[alien_inside]

3 meters???

[Xelly]

3 meters???

Baka 3feet sir? O 3 inches?

[pualux]

Baka 3feet sir? O 3 inches?

3 meters???

honestly I was guessing, I don't really know the thickness hahaha basta yung thickness niya, maririnig mo pag nagdidrill sa taas na floor, anyway I've resolved that issue, may parts kasi na mas makapal yung semento sa ceiling so I assumed na ganun din sa baba ko, yung parang beams, so dun ko nilagay yung kick para di lumusot agad. and yes that part is very thick...

[mikep]

Typical thickness of a slab of a condo unit will be about 100 mm or 4 inches.  The IIC of that kind of flooring will be about 25.  So if your drum set will be giving an SPL of 100 dBA, about 75 dBA will still penetrate.  It would help if you place a thick carpet installed wall to wall with a thick underlay.  The IIC of something like that would be about 46.  Do the math.  Now, the floor is not be the only possible place where noise will penetrate.  Your walls and ceiling are also culprits.  Reinforce the walls and the ceiling with double or even triple gypsum, 12 mm each.  Addition of glass fiber inside the wall cavities will increase the STC of your wall and ceiling by another 5 to 6 dB, depending on the thickness of the fuzz.  Adding air space would further increase your figures, again depending on the size of the cavity.  The only problem is once you do all these, your room will become smaller.  Using metal studs instead of wood studs will increase the sound transmission stoppage capability of your walls or ceiling.  After all these, you have to contend yourself with decreasing the room gain, by adding absorptive materials as final finish.  You can absorb, diffuse or reflect sound.  But that will be a bit complicated.  Putting thick curtains on certain wall areas walls would help.  Trying to find the best combination of curtain and your hard surface wall finish will give you a room that will not be totally damped.  (Forget egg trays - no useful abs coef. value, especially foam - very flammable).  Experiment.  To do it properly, you have to use a bit of computation using Sabine, Fitzroy, or any of those RT60 equations.  But that is going a bit far, unless you devote a lot of time and study on them.  It is Math and Physics.  For now, keep things simple.  It is rather complicated to understand sound.  Mitigating or stopping it needs your first understanding its properties, characteristics and the necessary methods to tame it.  Aside from knowing all these, you need to have extensive practice on it as well.  These take years of exposure, study and experience.  But if you are truly interested in it, you can probably start now.  Go over the net and research on it.  Good luck in your endeavour.

[pualux]

Typical thickness of a slab of a condo unit will be about 100 mm or 4 inches.  The IIC of that kind of flooring will be about 25.  So if your drum set will be giving an SPL of 100 dBA, about 75 dBA will still penetrate.  It would help if you place a thick carpet installed wall to wall with a thick underlay.  The IIC of something like that would be about 46.  Do the math.  Now, the floor is not be the only possible place where noise will penetrate.  Your walls and ceiling are also culprits.  Reinforce the walls and the ceiling with double or even triple gypsum, 12 mm each.  Addition of glass fiber inside the wall cavities will increase the STC of your wall and ceiling by another 5 to 6 dB, depending on the thickness of the fuzz.  Adding air space would further increase your figures, again depending on the size of the cavity.  The only problem is once you do all these, your room will become smaller.  Using metal studs instead of wood studs will increase the sound transmission stoppage capability of your walls or ceiling.  After all these, you have to contend yourself with decreasing the room gain, by adding absorptive materials as final finish.  You can absorb, diffuse or reflect sound.  But that will be a bit complicated.  Putting thick curtains on certain wall areas walls would help.  Trying to find the best combination of curtain and your hard surface wall finish will give you a room that will not be totally damped.  (Forget egg trays - no useful abs coef. value, especially foam - very flammable).  Experiment.  To do it properly, you have to use a bit of computation using Sabine, Fitzroy, or any of those RT60 equations.  But that is going a bit far, unless you devote a lot of time and study on them.  It is Math and Physics.  For now, keep things simple.  It is rather complicated to understand sound.  Mitigating or stopping it needs your first understanding its properties, characteristics and the necessary methods to tame it.  Aside from knowing all these, you need to have extensive practice on it as well.  These take years of exposure, study and experience.  But if you are truly interested in it, you can probably start now.  Go over the net and research on it.  Good luck in your endeavour.

Actually I've been researching non stop for the past 3 days sir ehehe, but to implement what I've learned is kind of hard. By the way thanks for the tip, I appreciate it, it'll take a while before I digest all of your tips, it's abit much for a newbie like me in the sound proofing/treatment/absorption department

I'll definitely study more about all the things you said.

By the way where can I find this gypsum board around metro manila? I've seen that word frequently used in the articles I've read but I have no idea where to find that. But I did see some people mention about local companies that provide that, so I'll backread again. And how do I attach this gypsum board? do I directly cover the existing walls with these boards or do I have to make some sort of frame first?

will I have to replace my door? I think it's a hollow core door. Would getting a solid core door greatly help reduce the sound leaks? Or is there any way to improve the door?

You also mentioned to put carpet wall to wall, luckily my room is already carpeted and the walls are full of foam type panels(i'm not sure of the material but I do know that it's not ordinary foam, maybe rockwool or fiberglass, can't really tell since it's covered with another fabric, it sorta looks like bass traps). I also placed those puzzle piece rubber mats for kids directly under the drums, I don't know if that helps but something is better than nothing.

I also noticed that you said that I'd have to reinforce the ceiling, do you mean that sound will pass through the 4 inch slab and disturb the upstairs neighbor?

[alien_inside]

There's a gypsum corp something like that along EDSA, near NepaQ mart, but along the southbound lane.

[mikep]

I'll definitely study more about all the things you said.

By the way where can I find this gypsum board around metro manila?

And how do I attach this gypsum board? do I directly cover the existing walls with these boards or do I have to make some sort of frame first?

will I have to replace my door? I think it's a hollow core door. Would getting a solid core door greatly help reduce the sound leaks? Or is there any way to improve the door?

You also mentioned to put carpet wall to wall, luckily my room is already carpeted and the walls are full of foam type panels(i'm not sure of the material but I do know that it's not ordinary foam, maybe rockwool or fiberglass, can't really tell since it's covered with another fabric, it sorta looks like bass traps). I also placed those puzzle piece rubber mats for kids directly under the drums, I don't know if that helps but something is better than nothing.

I also noticed that you said that I'd have to reinforce the ceiling, do you mean that sound will pass through the 4 inch slab and disturb the upstairs neighbor?

Home Depot would have them.  Usual size thickness is 12 mm and is sized like plywood.

Better to build a framing using metal studs.  Your carpenter would know how to do it.  For the ceiling, if you put 2 12 mm gypsum on a metal furring, then add 50 mm of 16 kg/m3 glass fiber batt, plus a 50 mm air gap (the bigger gap, the better isolation), your 4 inches slab will achieve an IIC of at least about 46 to 50.  As I mentioned previously, your 4 inch cement slab will be able to stop 25% of your total sound, assuming your drum set gives out a loudness of 100 dB.  Yes, your drum set will penetrate even 10 inches of solid cement slab and disturb the people upstairs.

Solid core doors are better STC wise.  But the sealing of the sides (using rubber door seals on all side, including the floor threshold) is the one that is important. A small opening can be equivalent to the door being opened.

The kids stuff rubber can help minimally as it does not have the necessary isolator deflection characteristics needed to contain sound and vibration.  But as you said, better than nothing.

Those panels with probably fiberglass or rockwool are not capable of handling really low frequency information or bass.  Most likely, they are wide band absorbers concentrated on mid and high frequencies.  A lot of those will make your room sound dull and damped, very soaked, which is not nice musically.  As I said experiment - add some, remove some, until you get a room that sound nice and comfortable.  Play your favorite music and hear how the room responds to it.

Acoustics, sound proofing and room frequency taming is a rather complicated branch of study.  But understanding it is attainable, as any field of science.  Good luck.

[musicianurse28]

Home Depot would have them.  Usual size thickness is 12 mm and is sized like plywood.

Better to build a framing using metal studs.  Your carpenter would know how to do it.  For the ceiling, if you put 2 12 mm gypsum on a metal furring, then add 50 mm of 16 kg/m3 glass fiber batt, plus a 50 mm air gap (the bigger gap, the better isolation), your 4 inches slab will achieve an IIC of at least about 46 to 50.  As I mentioned previously, your 4 inch cement slab will be able to stop 25% of your total sound, assuming your drum set gives out a loudness of 100 dB.  Yes, your drum set will penetrate even 10 inches of solid cement slab and disturb the people upstairs.

Solid core doors are better STC wise.  But the sealing of the sides (using rubber door seals on all side, including the floor threshold) is the one that is important. A small opening can be equivalent to the door being opened.

The kids stuff rubber can help minimally as it does not have the necessary isolator deflection characteristics needed to contain sound and vibration.  But as you said, better than nothing.

Those panels with probably fiberglass or rockwool are not capable of handling really low frequency information or bass.  Most likely, they are wide band absorbers concentrated on mid and high frequencies.  A lot of those will make your room sound dull and damped, very soaked, which is not nice musically.  As I said experiment - add some, remove some, until you get a room that sound nice and comfortable.  Play your favorite music and hear how the room responds to it.

Acoustics, sound proofing and room frequency taming is a rather complicated branch of study.  But understanding it is attainable, as any field of science.  Good luck.

Very informative! Thanks for sharing your knowledge in soundproofing.. This is what we all want to have as musicians..

By the way, if a room for example is not that big enough to make it a drum room and I'm planning to apply these soundproofing techniques, the room will become smaller right? Due to the application of these air gaps, board millimeters, and meters and meters of the desired gaps to effectively eliminate the sounds from inside to outside?

[ken minneman]

Got this one somewhere.. Will be my reference later

http://soundproofing.org/infopages/channel.htm