The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines

[skunkyfunk]

When clients complain, what didn't do the job, was it the engineer, the tools, the producer, or the artist?

It is a huge dilemma for us studio people.  Whenever a new issue of Mix Magazine or some online publication glorifies some new interface, mic, or piece of hardware, we studio owners drool.  But afterwhich, we ask three questions. 1.  Can we afford it?  2.  Can we get it locally for 'warranty purposes'?  3.  Will it attract more clients, hence make us break even, or profit from it? 

It is not a joke to stay afloat in the world of recording studios, whether you're talking high end, mid-end, low-end or even ghetto-style.  Each component you invest in the studio must have a substantial effect on the record process, but at the same time, we don't want clients to be charged exuberantly for the stuff we purchase.  If a studio charges say, P1,200.00/hour, can the clients appreciate the presence of a Neumann U67 and an SSL preamp to justify the price?  While most professional ears can hear the difference between high end, midrange and cheap gear, apparently, this is not what most clients pay for.  Clients pay for results and comfort, and for these two factors, you have different price points to cater to those needs.  And sadly, in the local setting, it was not always about competence in production, but more of necessity and achieving a bare minimum for your mix to go on air.   

I really pity a lot of sound engineers.  You don't know how much these people miss their families while they tweak on a mix  or work on a project til the wee hours.  As engineers work on your band's CD, they work 100% of the time while the vocalist is waiting for his turn to track.  You warm yourself up, while the engineer is already struggling against lack of sleep.   The sad part is, they get the blame for the artists' lack of creativity or blandness of arrangement.   Producers in the local setting care more about profit than creativity, so that means less time in the studio.  It is like trying to make full stomach out of a value meal. 

While artists, in most cases want a good grasp of their craft from the record engineer's perspective, remember that engineers can only do so much.  They are paid to hit record, edit, and capture whatever crap comes in to the mics.  Whatever sounds are heard in the studio is a product of the source, and the engineer is paid just to capture that.  Crap source = crap recording, crap settings = crap recording.  Plain and simple.   

The biggest dilemma I see in investing in a recording studio is simple = Pinoys want a Porsche but at the price of a Corolla.

[Xelly]

Trulalu!!! :facepalm:

[IncX]

all along, i thought the perils of investing in a record studio has more to do with a very very small demand for original band music?

[gandydancer123]

interesting topic..will be watching the responses..

I suddenly remebered this crap song "Masarap magmahal ng [pichapie]" by some exploited wanna be gangsta rappers..sigh..you can really hear the crap background accompaniment and effects..and yet they still sell to the masses." mediocre, senseless,anti intellectual garbage..similar to this vice ganda character..sigh...

[skunkyfunk]

all along, i thought the perils of investing in a record studio has more to do with a very very small demand for original band music?

Photography and recording are pretty much in the same downward spiral.  The pros invested on discipline and equipment, and the amateurs can catch up so easily while charging 1/10 the price of a pro.   

[samuelfianza]

Another thing, almost anyone now can record at their bedrooms.

[jamming_papu]

as an amateur, non-pro, enthusiast with my own personal set-up at my own bedroom, it is very important for artists and bands to know the limitations of the physical components and hardwares of the recording.

If they want a Mesa-Boogie sound from a Peavey Studio or a Marshall MG, come on!!! I understand from a perspective the situation. I think what we need is for bands, vocalists, guitarists, bassists and drummers to be educated on how the recording process actually goes. If they can't accept and grasp the 'crap in-> crap out' concept, they should reconsider making a record to begin with.

[skunkyfunk]

Another thing, almost anyone now can record at their bedrooms.

I saw this coming 12 years ago.   The problem is when bedroom geniuses start to have the urge to improve their craft.  Like say, wanting to get a more natural reverb from a live performance.  Those things.  And the problem with gear upgrades is that, the costs are exponential as you get more and more serious.

[Xelly]

I saw this coming 12 years ago.   The problem is when bedroom geniuses start to have the urge to improve their craft.  Like say, wanting to get a more natural reverb from a live performance.  Those things.  And the problem with gear upgrades is that, the costs are exponential as you get more and more serious.

[djspit]

I saw this coming 12 years ago.   The problem is when bedroom geniuses start to have the urge to improve their craft.  Like say, wanting to get a more natural reverb from a live performance.  Those things.  And the problem with gear upgrades is that, the costs are exponential as you get more and more serious.

 im a bedroom arranger! =) i started last 2005.. natuto ako for the past years from experience and from working with other studios. i thought it would be a hobby, per ngyon it is work! i have produced numbers of albums.. singles.. tvc, radio ads. and even my own album.

anyone could do like what i did.. but until now... i stil know nothing about mastering. yun ang mahirap pag aralan. i can mix .. but i dont even dare doing the final process of mastering. yan siguro and hindi basta basta magagawa ng bedroom studio. YES U CAN RECORD... but mix? master? learn learn learn. it is not an instant cofee

[Noisy Static]

It's simple....you cannot have champagne for the price of beer.....

At stores, you often see braggarts drooling at gears they cannot buy while whining if they cannot lay their hands on it.

[inigo]

About delivery... edi stop promising champagne for beer prices, or a Porsche for Corolla prices. When prospects ask if I can do something, after some clarification, I find it hard to say "yes" when I actually mean "not right now" or "I'll still figure it out". In my short experience, I've found it more satisfying to actively be honest about my studio's capabilities then satisfy my customers, than playing a hype then not living up to it. Pero I guess it's a different context if your bread and/or butter is the recording studio, because then you have to try to get as much paying customers as you can wake up to. But then again, basic business ethic: don't promise (or even hint at promising) something you can't deliver.

About gear... edi stop buying things that don't matter to customers. Why buy an expensive Neumann if the customer wants an output that cheaper gear will deliver? Unless, of course, you plan to target those who appreciate the sound high-end gear will deliver... pero if you're running a business, shouldn't you have counted/considered the investment costs and/or (at least man lang) market size? (eh, baka naman kasi GAS lang yan, hahaha). Lesson: Know if you're really "investing in a recording studio" or just "satisfying GAS". (haha)

About home recording being more accessible... edi find a way where your services can be needed. You can't really insist on your market to pay for something they don't have to. While equipment is getting more affordable (and software, pirated), what can't be bought is sipag at tiyaga para maging detail-oriented enough for audio editing, and with this, delivering good output at a desired time. Which eliminates the "equipment rental" factor in recording, and just isolates "recording service" as the service to be paid for.

[Noisy Static]

the problem is not a studio's promise....it's the client's expectations that is often in question

[skunkyfunk]

About being 'honest' about what a studio can/can't do is not just the problem.  The talent/producer also has much to do with it.  How many talents can admit to themselves that they should go back to wood-shedding before hitting the studio?  Some artists expect sound engineers to be magicians.  Enter Autotune, Beat detective, and cutting and pasting here and there.

I think what really bothers me is the fact that every single improvement that a studio wants to make has a price tag, but as far as the clientele is concerned, the budgets are not very elastic.   

[bananagrahamskyflakes]

malaki nga dilemna mo skunky. tsk tsk. clientele.

you know my aunt tried selling burgers in our place. she made the burgers ingredients really special. pero di nagtagal. natalo sya nung angel burger sa kanto namin. mahihirap lang kasi tao sa amin. clientele with static budgets. such a big problem. so evil.

[BAMF]

Doesn't everyone want a Porsche at the price of a Corolla ? Maybe tho if too many Porsches abound, the original owners would just scale up to a Bentlley or something (which they wish were the price of a Porsche).

Simple thing about customers. They want it perfect, they want it yesterday, and they want it free.

[BAMF]

interesting topic..will be watching the responses..

I suddenly remebered this crap song "Masarap magmahal ng [pichapie]" by some exploited wanna be gangsta rappers..sigh..you can really hear the crap background accompaniment and effects..and yet they still sell to the masses." mediocre, senseless,anti intellectual garbage..similar to this vice ganda character..sigh...

Yeah that. On the other side of the coin, some genius musical works get away with less than perfect sound. Like for instance, Taken by Cars. I love their music, pure genius, but it sometimes bothers me to hear that clunky guitar tone. I could almost swear, its an old Zoom, maybe a 4040 or 2020. Well, anyone in the know may correct me, but I've heard enough digital sounds as a pedal modder to claim some form of authority on the matter.

But it works. Gear does not rule supreme.

[skunkyfunk]

Yeah that. On the other side of the coin, some genius musical works get away with less than perfect sound. Like for instance, Taken by Cars. I love their music, pure genius, but it sometimes bothers me to hear that clunky guitar tone. I could almost swear, its an old Zoom, maybe a 4040 or 2020. Well, anyone in the know may correct me, but I've heard enough digital sounds as a pedal modder to claim some form of authority on the matter.

But it works. Gear does not rule supreme.

Yeah BAMF, great gear doesn't always trump over all the other aspects of production.  Jimi Hendrix and Noel Redding had to share one amp during some recording sessions... but stood up perfectly.  Abbey Road studios was considered "outdated" and "obsolete" during the Sgt. Pepper sessions.  But Sgt. Pepper's is considered one of the benchmarks for rock music production to this date.

But then again, it is the meeting of the minds that matter most, before and during the recording process.   

[skunkyfunk]

malaki nga dilemna mo skunky. tsk tsk. clientele.

you know my aunt tried selling burgers in our place. she made the burgers ingredients really special. pero di nagtagal. natalo sya nung angel burger sa kanto namin. mahihirap lang kasi tao sa amin. clientele with static budgets. such a big problem. so evil.

I wouldn't mind eating Angel's burgers even with their greenish patties  , but again, the whole point I am trying to drive is that some people think that you can go to McDonald's and tell them they aren't pricing their burgers right because Angel's can price 'em at half or even a quarter of the cost.

Pasample naman ng burger ng Tita mo. 

[skunkyfunk]

Simple thing about customers. They want it perfect, they want it yesterday, and they want it free.

SIG MATERIAL.  Noice one BAMF.

[willythechief]

here's my take... i think you have to be honest with the client, only and only after you have done what you could... then have them take a good listen, first without any interruption... then slowly and carefully  let them critisize whatever there is to critisize... the art or beauty of a mix is a subjective thing so whats good for juan is not necessary good for pedro... so its bound to happen... if its a technical issue, you just gotta go back to the mix... if its a performance issue, ask yourself... is it workable or not? if workable go for it and explain to the client why u did what u did.. if not, explain to the client what u think is needed for the record to go where the client envision it to go... just be honest... the thing is, you may not know it baka tinestest lang ung skill nyo especially if your working with them for the frist time... imagine if sagot nyo hindi workable and yet alam ng client workable because hed seen it been done already.... what happens next? mawawala kumpyansa sa yo, the next thing u know, wala na gusto makatrabaho ka..... well thats just me and my experience working with such a varied bunch of talents

[pualux]

eto pa, some guitarists insist on having this certain tone, which is very ummmm "matalas sa tenga"
you invest in all these good gear but the know it all just fcukz it up.

I went to a gig once and the sound guy set the amps to a more neutral position, something that would fit better in the mix, but the jejemon guitarist just messed it up and put treble on to 10, mids to 0 and bass to 10, (exag lang ofcourse but you get the point)
we left the bar before they could even finish their first song ---true story

[MrGobots]

Here's a client's perspective (somewhat)

I go to studios for the things I can not do on my own. Like if this or that gear is not present in my office studio. Or when I want batman to handle a crime. Although, I may not be the conventional client because I have considerable backgrounds in recording, live set-up and mixing, and multi-media production and this I bring to the table every time, I always make it a point to try and think like a consumer after all that is what most of my end-products are for tv commercials, radio commercials, avp's etc. That's what I think studio owners should expect their clients to be thinking of, the end-product and how they will be able to use them.

A pre-prod and a post-prod session should be held. Every expectation should be laid prior to engaging into any agreement. You need to expect advertising or creative agencies send staff such as account managers to handle nego, and however they may understand you're position, their career points come from the company they represent and shaving a few thousand pesos off the budget and getting suppliers (studios) to deliver faster are part of earning these points. Paano pa kaya kung yung banda e sariling pera nila yung ginagamit nila, dapat mura na mabilis pa na magaling. Studios should be prepared for this. This is your business and you should know/learn how to deal with them to make it work for you.

Additionally, on the topic of the berdroom gurus. Sabi nyo nga marami nyan. You should anticipate that your clients are aware that these are out there (in fact, I bet that is how most of your studios started)

So what's the solution to the dilemma? I don't know. But here are my suggestions

1. Invest like a businessman, not an audiophile. When you drool for new gear, assess. I always tell myself "you used to edit on betacams and u-matics, and your NLE units were powered by those old Intel 286's, you can do stuff with those you can make do with what you have now. Wait til its time."

2. Conceptualize a pitch that addresses your client's interest like Why is your studio better than Mr. Bedroom? What sets you apart from other studios? How will choosing you be good for your client's image with his boss or company. Why is this piece of top-dollar gear needed for their production? Show samples.

3. Manage expectations. Lay down what you think would be the right amount of manpower and cost to do a good job. And be prepared for pera o bayong tawaran. Tuso comes in all walks of life. My gazzilionaire boss back in the 90's showed me how to haggle P50 of a P500 tiangge saleslady, sh.it he was good. Binulungan pa ako nung babae "kuya abonado talaga ako, ako magbabayad" i had to sneak her the P50 back on our way back, kakaawa e. Knowing is half the battle. Kung tuso sya mas-tuso ka dapat. If you cannot commit the arrangements but need to take the job for business then make sure your client knows.

It truly is not about competence, its about results. Your competence ups your value and lets you charge a bit more to a certain extent. Its results that clients buy from you. If you can promise and show better results with your competence then people will go to you. By results I don't just mean the end product, I mean the whole experience, including pricing and service value at the end of the project.

When Pinoys know they can't afford a Porsche, they put racing wings, pimp out their stereos and let Mato turbocharge their Corollas. Sabay cono English, lets go na! Thats how it is, we'll all just have to make it work for us.

[skunkyfunk]

Here's a client's perspective (somewhat)

I go to studios for the things I can not do on my own. Like if this or that gear is not present in my office studio. Or when I want batman to handle a crime. Although, I may not be the conventional client because I have considerable backgrounds in recording, live set-up and mixing, and multi-media production and this I bring to the table every time, I always make it a point to try and think like a consumer after all that is what most of my end-products are for tv commercials, radio commercials, avp's etc. That's what I think studio owners should expect their clients to be thinking of, the end-product and how they will be able to use them.

A pre-prod and a post-prod session should be held. Every expectation should be laid prior to engaging into any agreement. You need to expect advertising or creative agencies send staff such as account managers to handle nego, and however they may understand you're position, their career points come from the company they represent and shaving a few thousand pesos off the budget and getting suppliers (studios) to deliver faster are part of earning these points. Paano pa kaya kung yung banda e sariling pera nila yung ginagamit nila, dapat mura na mabilis pa na magaling. Studios should be prepared for this. This is your business and you should know/learn how to deal with them to make it work for you.

Additionally, on the topic of the berdroom gurus. Sabi nyo nga marami nyan. You should anticipate that your clients are aware that these are out there (in fact, I bet that is how most of your studios started)

So what's the solution to the dilemma? I don't know. But here are my suggestions

1. Invest like a businessman, not an audiophile. When you drool for new gear, assess. I always tell myself "you used to edit on betacams and u-matics, and your NLE units were powered by those old Intel 286's, you can do stuff with those you can make do with what you have now. Wait til its time."

2. Conceptualize a pitch that addresses your client's interest like Why is your studio better than Mr. Bedroom? What sets you apart from other studios? How will choosing you be good for your client's image with his boss or company. Why is this piece of top-dollar gear needed for their production? Show samples.

3. Manage expectations. Lay down what you think would be the right amount of manpower and cost to do a good job. And be prepared for pera o bayong tawaran. Tuso comes in all walks of life. My gazzilionaire boss back in the 90's showed me how to haggle P50 of a P500 tiangge saleslady, sh.it he was good. Binulungan pa ako nung babae "kuya abonado talaga ako, ako magbabayad" i had to sneak her the P50 back on our way back, kakaawa e. Knowing is half the battle. Kung tuso sya mas-tuso ka dapat. If you cannot commit the arrangements but need to take the job for business then make sure your client knows.

It truly is not about competence, its about results. Your competence ups your value and lets you charge a bit more to a certain extent. Its results that clients buy from you. If you can promise and show better results with your competence then people will go to you. By results I don't just mean the end product, I mean the whole experience, including pricing and service value at the end of the project.

When Pinoys know they can't afford a Porsche, they put racing wings, pimp out their stereos and let Mato turbocharge their Corollas. Sabay cono English, lets go na! Thats how it is, we'll all just have to make it work for us.

Nice one gobots!  I really like the insights you shared.

Unfortunately, things are easier said than done.  End results are strongly related to a lot of factors, depending on the skill-level of the artist, and the genre of music.  For instance, some artists can cut an excellent record by using a POD at home, while others might take forever to get a good rhythm guitar track with multiple miking setups, with multiple amps.  Some types of music require almost MIDI-esque sounds that using a cheap drum kit and decent cymbals and post-prod on the drums (i.e. drum replacement) can do the job (eg. modern rock and metal music) while other types of music that need to capture every nuance on the drums might require tons of miking and drum/cymbal/head selection options.   Factor in the vocals... some albums might require multiple overdubs, while others might do with a single vocal track. 

[MrGobots]

Nice one gobots!  I really like the insights you shared.

Unfortunately, things are easier said than done.  End results are strongly related to a lot of factors, depending on the skill-level of the artist, and the genre of music.  For instance, some artists can cut an excellent record by using a POD at home, while others might take forever to get a good rhythm guitar track with multiple miking setups, with multiple amps.  Some types of music require almost MIDI-esque sounds that using a cheap drum kit and decent cymbals and post-prod on the drums (i.e. drum replacement) can do the job (eg. modern rock and metal music) while other types of music that need to capture every nuance on the drums might require tons of miking and drum/cymbal/head selection options.   Factor in the vocals... some albums might require multiple overdubs, while others might do with a single vocal track.

I know what you mean. Some even walk in asking you to move heaven and earth all because they saw how easy it was in CSI. Like for example, one client came in with video footage of his celebrity wife doing acrobatics underwater. Because he saw how easy it was done on a photo by one of his staff in his office, he decided (not assumed) it was just as easy on video. I told him it wasn't that easy but it could be done, even if I knew I couldn't myself. What I did was put that service as something only a few people can do and that I would have to charge him 7x more than usual but gave him an alternative one that is more affordable. He went for affordable, as I knew he would. And if he called my bluff, then I'd have enough money to farm it out and earn some.

It is probably safe to say that some singers or artists will walk in thinking they'd only have to play the pieces once while you record them and that everything that follows will be up to you, because a. they trust that you know your job better b. they don't know squat. While some sit with you through all the way to the final stages because a. they don't trust you completely b. they know less and want to learn. Different levels of know-how and diligence. Its the type b's I try to avoid or at least put them in their proper place, professionally speaking.

I don't like people looking over my shoulder while I work. I will revise as many times as reasonably needed and will communicate as often as client wants, but client cannot sit in the room with me while I work. I don't know if you can apply that in your studio. Lay all the tracks down as much as clients/artists want, then when it comes to mixing: agree to a goal and then leave the mixing/mastering to you. Then you present versions of the end-products in stages like draft, 1st revision, 2nd revision, final. This method allows me to work in Starbucks for video, and client wouldn't know. During the pre-prod stages, it may hurt client's ego but would do a lot of good in sync'ing the ideas in your heads if you refer to other people's recordings or works you've done before. Like for example, you play a Bamboo recording and tell your client "This is what we'll be aiming for in guitar sounds" or "in order to sound like this, your singer has to have good diction, but as it is your singer has a bit of regionality in his i's and e's."

Bottomline is you have to understand who your client is and manage what he expects from you.