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Author Topic: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines  (Read 8778 times)

Offline BAMF

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2011, 02:40:12 AM »
Nice one gobots!  I really like the insights you shared.

Unfortunately, things are easier said than done.  End results are strongly related to a lot of factors, depending on the skill-level of the artist, and the genre of music.  For instance, some artists can cut an excellent record by using a POD at home, while others might take forever to get a good rhythm guitar track with multiple miking setups, with multiple amps.  Some types of music require almost MIDI-esque sounds that using a cheap drum kit and decent cymbals and post-prod on the drums (i.e. drum replacement) can do the job (eg. modern rock and metal music) while other types of music that need to capture every nuance on the drums might require tons of miking and drum/cymbal/head selection options.   Factor in the vocals... some albums might require multiple overdubs, while others might do with a single vocal track.

Baka it will boil down to your own "specialty" Dodj. Even the seasoned engineers and producers in LA and New York do not cater to the smorgasbord approach. Most engineers and producers will be known to work best in a certain genre.

It also depends on the positioning of your studio. Like say, for the Doghouse with it's low-mid positioning, I don't expect very finicky clients, and if I choose to whip up drum replacement or use a Pod to get the guitars, I usually don't get much (if any) complaints. Besides, most guitarists will leave the recording to the engineer/producer and often assume that they know what they're doing. So it's usually at my whim too if I decide to record via amp, with ambient and border mikes etc etc.

In the Pre-prod meeting, ascertain already already certain basics such as the budget and the skill of the band. Let them rehearse one song before accepting or making terms to the project. Right there you perhaps already vision your approach or whether you will have any problems doing the project.

I really like your approach Mr. Gobots. Buy gear like a businessman, and not like an audiophile. Most of my gear was bought second-hand. But then again, my studio is more of a hobby business more than anything else, thus I didn't treat my purchases as investments but rather as I would my "toys", bought with disposable cash.
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline MrGobots

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #26 on: December 25, 2011, 03:51:23 AM »
There's one principle I've learned to teach myself over the years and this one I don't think many will accept as it contradicts most business and ethical principles. But hey if it gets the job done and satisfies everyone, why not?


We have trained ears, most of our clients don't. The less clients know of your process, the more magical your process appears. So, if in the process you would like to cut corners without sacrificing quality, go! Client wouldn't know, all they're after is the end result. Don't be afraid to do what you do. If you want to midi-trigger loops instead of going thru the hassles of mic'ing drums, go! Or copy-paste an entire chorus just because it sounds better, go! If your end-product is enough to fool you, even when you know its there, its more than enough to satisfy client.

On a recent video I watched, Phil Collen was adamant in telling everyone how he used Guitar Rig 4 entirely for the latest Def Leppard album.

My guiding principle in buying gear for business (or gadgets for personal use) is pretty basic. Always remind yourself what you have done using lower class equipment. How your product will reach its target audience is still pretty much the same as ten years ago. Sure we have 5.1 systems and all these hi-fi HD stuff. But the reality of it, music and audio is still pretty much in stereo. Ipods, laptops and portable players have trumped component stereos (which are now left to the audiophiles) So knowing what you can do with basic gear, lets you assess with more insight what more you can do with better gear. Consider that, then factor in the notion that electronics, such as PC's, can get outdated faster than they can depreciate and vice versa. Buy at the proper time, there's no point in acquiring gear just to be the first studio to have it or just because the 'big boys' have it. (Unless your running capital allows you that luxury).

OT: @bamf... how's the scalarizer doing nowadays? im thinking of having a couple of my guitars sent to you for 'the magic'. am looking for a way to take out the wood in the equation of the tone in some of my local guitars. Would the scalarizer be somewhere in the vicinity of a solution for that? Bingengot yung isang GRG ko which I bought only because it looks cool and an old washburn na parang plywood yung loob which I also bought only because of the nice paint job and the cool 80's look.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2011, 04:02:05 AM by MrGobots »
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
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Offline BAMF

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #27 on: December 25, 2011, 11:41:08 AM »


OT: @bamf... how's the scalarizer doing nowadays? im thinking of having a couple of my guitars sent to you for 'the magic'. am looking for a way to take out the wood in the equation of the tone in some of my local guitars. Would the scalarizer be somewhere in the vicinity of a solution for that? Bingengot yung isang GRG ko which I bought only because it looks cool and an old washburn na parang plywood yung loob which I also bought only because of the nice paint job and the cool 80's look.

Amen sir. It will be a while before I part with my equipment. If at all, the first to go will be the DAW. But I'm having massive problems migrating my 32-bit software to 64-bit so maybe I'll stay put for now. Or build another system in parallel testing. Cubase 3 has served me well and still continues to.

Anyway, as for the scalarizer, it actually works on the wood. I'm experimenting on another process. Same effect and principle as with the scalarizer but its like throwing the guitar into a "scalar wave oven" to cook. PM me sir, I have an experiment that I'd want to perform. Don't worry your guitar will be in good hands.
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline MrGobots

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2011, 12:05:29 PM »
But I'm having massive problems migrating my 32-bit software to 64-bit so maybe I'll stay put for now. Or build another system in parallel testing. Cubase 3 has served me well and still continues to

I have found the biggest hindrance to learning new versions of a software, particularly with Adobe Audition, is how easy it is to open the previous installation, which you have already mastered. So I make it a point to start learning the software when workload is a bit light. When I've really decided to migrate, I jump in with a blindfold and uninstall the previous version. That way I don't ever go back and am forced to learn the things I want to do with the new software.

And yes thanks, I'll contact you sometime next month for the scalarizer.
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
- Oscar Wilde

Offline BAMF

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2011, 01:13:48 PM »
I have found the biggest hindrance to learning new versions of a software, particularly with Adobe Audition, is how easy it is to open the previous installation, which you have already mastered. So I make it a point to start learning the software when workload is a bit light. When I've really decided to migrate, I jump in with a blindfold and uninstall the previous version. That way I don't ever go back and am forced to learn the things I want to do with the new software.

And yes thanks, I'll contact you sometime next month for the scalarizer.

I'm not even sure if 64-bit ASIO drivers have already been released for my interface (hayyy). Maybe it's time to upgrade to a Firewire interface.
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633


Offline mikep

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2011, 06:42:38 PM »
It is not a joke to stay afloat in the world of recording studios, whether you're talking high end, mid-end, low-end or even ghetto-style.  Each component you invest in the studio must have a substantial effect on the record process, but at the same time, we don't want clients to be charged exuberantly for the stuff engineer is paid just to capture that.  Crap source = crap recording, crap settings = crap recording.  Plain and simple.   

The music business is not what it used to be.  The budgets for production have totally shrunk and the business seems to go nowhere.  Gone are the days of record or CD replication and buying, where producers literally make music on CDs or LPs and consumers physically buy a product.  Nowadays, it is all downloads, at real low prices and can even be had for free.  With digitization, one of the most affected industries is the recording studio sector.  The proliferation of music recording software on computers has turned every Tom, [sausage] and Harry into a recording engineer (and musician) and any nook and cranny of any place, a recording space.  In this age age where sonic quality is not the norm anymore (listening to MP3s through headphones and earbuds), a REAL recording space is not an important factor.  The use of samples, digital simulators and other software that can be had to make the sound output approximate real or live instruments or spaces are deemed acceptable and are becoming more of the practice in today's music production.  With all these, why would you need a professional recording studio, manned by experienced sound engineers with proper sound recording equipment, classic microphones and nice reverberant rooms where the drum kit sounds glorious?  Thus, the demise of big, successful and iconic studios like Abbey Road, EMI Studios, Townhouse, AR, Bearsville and others that were responsible for recording countless hit music of several successful artists and bands of the by gone era.

Maintaining a recording facility is no mean task.  You have to keep up with technological advancement (are we already on Pro Tools 10?  I have lost track) as well as make sure all your equipment are in tip top shape to operate and stay in competition.  All these take money to undertake.  Without the budgets, and the record companies not as active as they were in production, where will you as a recording operator, source your revenue to be in shape?  People in the business often mention that if anyone of us can come up with a revenue generating model for the record industry, much like the way Steve Jobs did iTunes, the iPod, the iPad and Apple as a whole, you'll be rich!  I am still in search of that model.

Today, having a recording studio is more of a hobby than a business, much like the same way audiophiles invest in gazillion bucks worth of audio equipment just to enjoy Siti's bossa nova songs.  Do not expect it to be your main source of income; it won't provide you that.  If you are an artist, raking it in in concerts, guestings, endorsements or making music for advertisements, movies, TV soaps, etc., a recording studio is a must to pursue your craft.  Would you buy boutique gadgets or proven sonic technology stuff from SSL, Neve, Prism, Neumann, AKG, etc. and other expensive equipment?  If you have the money to spare and you are in your GAS stage, maybe.  Invest only in something you need and provide solutions to your present requirements.  Maybe acquire equipment that will age and become classic types which can be worth something in the future, like microphones, reverbs, delays, etc.  Otherwise, it will be more prudent to look into other options to see where you could put your money into which can give you better yields and returns.  Right now, the recording studio business is in a limbo.  As I mentioned earlier, gone are the hey days - of unlimited hours of usage by artists who do their composing and arranging with the time meter clicking, and limitless redos and re-mixing.

I am happy I went into this business.  It was natural for me to be in it since I was doing a lot of commercial ads and jingles previously, and was engaged in broadcasting and music.  Then, I went into another passion, acoustics.  I used my studios as a laboratory and training ground while I studied and learned.    Where is TRACKStudios now?  Still here - with a lot of free time schedules.  It was good while it lasted.  Been there, done that.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2011, 06:50:49 PM by mikep »
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline MrGobots

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #31 on: December 28, 2011, 07:27:28 PM »
People in the business often mention that if anyone of us can come up with a revenue generating model for the record industry, much like the way Steve Jobs did iTunes, the iPod, the iPad and Apple as a whole, you'll be rich!  I am still in search of that model.
boss, the nexstar karaoke guys seem to be on to something (or from whoever they took the idea from). seriously. If you're not familiar with  them, they're the ones that put up karaoke booths in malls where people can come in and record themselves singing against a green screen background. Afterwhich they get a dvd of their "performance". I think that is one of the most commercial and money generating directions anyone in the recording studio business may take. Make it mobile and accessible. I know it sounds pretty outrageous, to say the least, but pretty soon with digitization and everyone who got into it getting better, there may not be a need for studios and its professionals anymore.

Maybe a band booth/mini-stage where bands can come in and do a one-take and a pro-engineer can quickly turn that song into a demo with matching performance video. Add that with distribution options... I think that would be Steve Jobs-ing it.

BandStar - Recording Booth with HD Video!
3-songs in one DVD for P1500
5-songs P2000


Imagine how many bands would bite that and how many bands would go back for seconds....

It may sound sad, but that seems to be a logical/commercial idea if today's recording professionals want to source other income apart from the struggling industry that cannot feed them like it used to.
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
- Oscar Wilde

Offline mikep

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #32 on: December 28, 2011, 09:01:39 PM »
Anything is possible.  As I always say, there is no such thing as a bad idea.  Ideas are just superseded by better ideas.  Maybe it is the wave of the future especially here in the Philippines where people want things cheap (although this is true in other p[arts of the world as well).  With the proliferation of internet things, it may become popular, who knows.  Join the bandwagon and make the bucks before a lot of others do it.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 01:47:12 AM by mikep »
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline BAMF

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #33 on: December 28, 2011, 10:13:22 PM »
How about an on-line recording studio ? Yeah. Maybe when the internet can match ASIO latency times. Now that's a bad idea right off the bat :-D
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline KitC

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2011, 11:50:10 PM »
Jobet, we've been doing that (or rather Gerard has) with a plugin called Source Connect. It's quite usable although latency can be a bit disconcerting at first; there are workarounds though. You can hear the results every time you watch Kitchen Musical on AXN.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline BAMF

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2011, 03:42:49 AM »
Jobet, we've been doing that (or rather Gerard has) with a plugin called Source Connect. It's quite usable although latency can be a bit disconcerting at first; there are workarounds though. You can hear the results every time you watch Kitchen Musical on AXN.

I meant something like a webpage where you go to, pay with your credit card then start putting in/recording your sound one by one. Like a home extension of the Newstar, kinda like a DIY recording studio where you don't buy anything more than a computer microphone and a guitar/bass USB interface :-D. Now how do we pull off the drums...
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline MrGobots

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2011, 03:59:12 AM »
I meant something like a webpage where you go to, pay with your credit card then start putting in/recording your sound one by one. Like a home extension of the Newstar, kinda like a DIY recording studio where you don't buy anything more than a computer microphone and a guitar/bass USB interface :-D. Now how do we pull off the drums...
rockband interface... hehehe

>midi triggers
« Last Edit: December 29, 2011, 04:20:40 AM by MrGobots »
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
- Oscar Wilde

Offline BAMF

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2011, 12:11:24 PM »
rockband interface... hehehe

>midi triggers

HOnga ano. Does PS3 support and output MIDI ? :-D
Doghouse Recording Studio: http://doghousestudio.webs.com
Cel: 09282843633

Offline MrGobots

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2011, 12:37:16 PM »
HOnga ano. Does PS3 support and output MIDI ? :-D
not exactly sure but I was able to use a couple of years ago my wireless ps2 controller to control midi before (with some software I forgot na ), i bet the same can be done with the rockband drum kit.
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
- Oscar Wilde

Offline mikep

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2011, 11:37:17 AM »
Maybe cloud computing will be the wave of recording's future? Something to explore. Broadcast is already looking at it.
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline KitC

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Re: The dilemmas of investing on a recording studio business in the Philippines
« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2011, 10:40:53 AM »
Right now, cloud computing is more like an offsite hard disk. It stores your apps and, more importantly, YOUR DATA. Call me paranoid, but I think it's the CIA's method of keeping track of potential ne'er-do-wells by analyzing the stored data and looking for behavioral 'quirks'.

It has it's uses in keeping your stuff available to you regardless of location however, it is still device and application specific. I've long been wary of having my data stored in any other place that I can't control myself. It may be a control issue with me, but I like to think more in terms of security. Maybe we can expound this in another thread.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline Sound-Weavers.com

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The music business is not what it used to be.  The budgets for production have totally shrunk and the business seems to go nowhere.  Gone are the days of record or CD replication and buying, where producers literally make music on CDs or LPs and consumers physically buy a product.  Nowadays, it is all downloads, at real low prices and can even be had for free.  With digitization, one of the most affected industries is the recording studio sector.  The proliferation of music recording software on computers has turned every Tom, [sausage] and Harry into a recording engineer (and musician) and any nook and cranny of any place, a recording space.  In this age age where sonic quality is not the norm anymore (listening to MP3s through headphones and earbuds), a REAL recording space is not an important factor.  The use of samples, digital simulators and other software that can be had to make the sound output approximate real or live instruments or spaces are deemed acceptable and are becoming more of the practice in today's music production.  With all these, why would you need a professional recording studio, manned by experienced sound engineers with proper sound recording equipment, classic microphones and nice reverberant rooms where the drum kit sounds glorious?  Thus, the demise of big, successful and iconic studios like Abbey Road, EMI Studios, Townhouse, AR, Bearsville and others that were responsible for recording countless hit music of several successful artists and bands of the by gone era.

Maintaining a recording facility is no mean task.  You have to keep up with technological advancement (are we already on Pro Tools 10?  I have lost track) as well as make sure all your equipment are in tip top shape to operate and stay in competition.  All these take money to undertake.  Without the budgets, and the record companies not as active as they were in production, where will you as a recording operator, source your revenue to be in shape?  People in the business often mention that if anyone of us can come up with a revenue generating model for the record industry, much like the way Steve Jobs did iTunes, the iPod, the iPad and Apple as a whole, you'll be rich!  I am still in search of that model.

Today, having a recording studio is more of a hobby than a business, much like the same way audiophiles invest in gazillion bucks worth of audio equipment just to enjoy Siti's bossa nova songs.  Do not expect it to be your main source of income; it won't provide you that.  If you are an artist, raking it in in concerts, guestings, endorsements or making music for advertisements, movies, TV soaps, etc., a recording studio is a must to pursue your craft.  Would you buy boutique gadgets or proven sonic technology stuff from SSL, Neve, Prism, Neumann, AKG, etc. and other expensive equipment?  If you have the money to spare and you are in your GAS stage, maybe.  Invest only in something you need and provide solutions to your present requirements.  Maybe acquire equipment that will age and become classic types which can be worth something in the future, like microphones, reverbs, delays, etc.  Otherwise, it will be more prudent to look into other options to see where you could put your money into which can give you better yields and returns.  Right now, the recording studio business is in a limbo.  As I mentioned earlier, gone are the hey days - of unlimited hours of usage by artists who do their composing and arranging with the time meter clicking, and limitless redos and re-mixing.

I am happy I went into this business.  It was natural for me to be in it since I was doing a lot of commercial ads and jingles previously, and was engaged in broadcasting and music.  Then, I went into another passion, acoustics.  I used my studios as a laboratory and training ground while I studied and learned.    Where is TRACKStudios now?  Still here - with a lot of free time schedules.  It was good while it lasted.  Been there, done that.

I vote this as MT&PA Post of The Year 2011! Thanks a lot for sharing your insight Mike!

Offline mikep

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Gerry, thanks for enjoying my post.  Regards.
www.facebook.com/TRACKSAcoustics/Studios
guitars: gretsch 6122-1962; rickenbacker 330; epi elite casinos; gibson les paul standards, tribute, faded, double cut; gibson sg standards, faded; fender strats MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; fender tele MIAs, MIJs, MIMs; etc

Offline gandydancer123

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amazing read! wow!  a very,very informative thread!
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Offline superwup

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I vote this as MT&PA Post of The Year 2011! Thanks a lot for sharing your insight Mike!

+1

Offline skunkyfunk

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The music business is not what it used to be.  The budgets for production have totally shrunk and the business seems to go nowhere.  Gone are the days of record or CD replication and buying, where producers literally make music on CDs or LPs and consumers physically buy a product.  Nowadays, it is all downloads, at real low prices and can even be had for free.  With digitization, one of the most affected industries is the recording studio sector.  The proliferation of music recording software on computers has turned every Tom, [sausage] and Harry into a recording engineer (and musician) and any nook and cranny of any place, a recording space.  In this age age where sonic quality is not the norm anymore (listening to MP3s through headphones and earbuds), a REAL recording space is not an important factor.  The use of samples, digital simulators and other software that can be had to make the sound output approximate real or live instruments or spaces are deemed acceptable and are becoming more of the practice in today's music production.  With all these, why would you need a professional recording studio, manned by experienced sound engineers with proper sound recording equipment, classic microphones and nice reverberant rooms where the drum kit sounds glorious?  Thus, the demise of big, successful and iconic studios like Abbey Road, EMI Studios, Townhouse, AR, Bearsville and others that were responsible for recording countless hit music of several successful artists and bands of the by gone era.

Maintaining a recording facility is no mean task.  You have to keep up with technological advancement (are we already on Pro Tools 10?  I have lost track) as well as make sure all your equipment are in tip top shape to operate and stay in competition.  All these take money to undertake.  Without the budgets, and the record companies not as active as they were in production, where will you as a recording operator, source your revenue to be in shape?  People in the business often mention that if anyone of us can come up with a revenue generating model for the record industry, much like the way Steve Jobs did iTunes, the iPod, the iPad and Apple as a whole, you'll be rich!  I am still in search of that model.

Today, having a recording studio is more of a hobby than a business, much like the same way audiophiles invest in gazillion bucks worth of audio equipment just to enjoy Siti's bossa nova songs.  Do not expect it to be your main source of income; it won't provide you that.  If you are an artist, raking it in in concerts, guestings, endorsements or making music for advertisements, movies, TV soaps, etc., a recording studio is a must to pursue your craft.  Would you buy boutique gadgets or proven sonic technology stuff from SSL, Neve, Prism, Neumann, AKG, etc. and other expensive equipment?  If you have the money to spare and you are in your GAS stage, maybe.  Invest only in something you need and provide solutions to your present requirements.  Maybe acquire equipment that will age and become classic types which can be worth something in the future, like microphones, reverbs, delays, etc.  Otherwise, it will be more prudent to look into other options to see where you could put your money into which can give you better yields and returns.  Right now, the recording studio business is in a limbo.  As I mentioned earlier, gone are the hey days - of unlimited hours of usage by artists who do their composing and arranging with the time meter clicking, and limitless redos and re-mixing.

I am happy I went into this business.  It was natural for me to be in it since I was doing a lot of commercial ads and jingles previously, and was engaged in broadcasting and music.  Then, I went into another passion, acoustics.  I used my studios as a laboratory and training ground while I studied and learned.    Where is TRACKStudios now?  Still here - with a lot of free time schedules.  It was good while it lasted.  Been there, done that.

if only I had a share button