TALK @ PhilMusic.com - The Online Home of the Pinoy Musician
The Musician Forums => Music Technology & Pro Audio => Topic started by: JEM hole on April 29, 2006, 06:06:00 AM
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Guys please help find a decent but cheap condenser mic w/ quality.
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particularly vocal condenser mic.
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Try the Audio Technika AT2020. I'd recommend trying out some MXL's but I don't know of any local supplier.
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how about samson usb condenser mics? i think they're around 4k in audiophile
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how about samson usb condenser mics? i think they're around 4k in audiophile
I've been fairly discreet about this for some time now, and no disrespect to Audiophile, but google the samson usb mic and how to monitor it's output. AFAIK, this applies to all usb mics. (Used to have a similar problem with my Terratec Phono Preamp USB which is now virtually unused.)
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I've been fairly discreet about this for some time now, and no disrespect to Audiophile, but google the samson usb mic and how to monitor it's output. AFAIK, this applies to all usb mics.
Kit, could you be more specific? Are they difficult to use?
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I've been fairly discreet about this for some time now, and no disrespect to Audiophile, but google the samson usb mic and how to monitor it's output. AFAIK, this applies to all usb mics.
Kit, could you be more specific? Are they difficult to use?
Actually, these mics are the epitome of ease of use. Just plug them in and start recording. Now comes the hard part, try monitoring the output as you are recording... you will find that you can't unless you are using antiquated MME drivers with terrible latency. Realtime monitoring? Nada. Usb audio devices use the same port/device for realtime monitoring. Now where's the audio output on a usb mic? :-#
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NO SUCH THING.. SORRY~~~ in my honest opinion, concerning condenser mics - quality and affordability doesn't go hand in hand. :cry:
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My suggestion to you is buy a decent vocal mic..say an SM 58 then use a mic modeller ( program like the antares mic modeller) to model it like an expensive mic like the Neumanns, AKG's, etc.. :lol:
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My suggestion to you is buy a decent vocal mic..say an SM 58 then use a mic modeller ( program like the antares mic modeller) to model it like an expensive mic like the Neumanns, AKG's, etc.. :lol:
Modelers can come close, but nothing beats hardware.
I dunno, dude. The SM-58 is like what? $99 while the Antares modeler is $199 (quoted from Sweetwater). Except for the SM-57/58, I personally think the 'magic' point for affordable, good-sounding condensers begins at the $199 mark. Examples are the Rode NT1-A, AKG AT-3035, and Studio Projects C1 which have gotten good reviews from users (and mags too but I don't put much weight in those).
Stepping up to the $300 mark, which is the total for the SM58 and Antares, we have the AKG AT4040 and MXL V69, and for about 4 Hamiltons more, the sE 2200a and Sennheiser MD421 II(which isn't a condenser but is almost legendary). From a user POV, these mics sound more than good for the money and in most cases, will not disappoint. Sure they're not like Neumann U87s, Microtech-Gefells, Langevins or Manleys, but they do sound good for the money. And with the going exchange rate here, getting the most bang for your buck is the name of the game.
EDIT: Typo.
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MXL condenser mics are cheap and sound good.
Btw, you already know that condenser mics require phantom power right? Just asking.
HTH
Gerry
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+1 on the MXL's. I have a cheap and cheerful MXL V63M which cost me only $69. I was actually gunning for an Oktava MC-012 or the Blue Ball but I concentrated on my software and soundcard first. I often find myself reaching for the MXL more instead of my SM-58. Condensers have that airiness that's hard to find in dynamics.
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Oktava MC-012
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I call them my "precious" pair :D
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Oktava MC-012
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I call them my "precious" pair :D
Aha! Next time nasa Makati ako, I wanna pass by your studio. I just want to ogle at those Oktavas.
EDIT: Typo.
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+ MXL i am a proud owner of 2 mxl's!!! the secret to it though is to use a mic preamp for ultra results which i don't have yet haha but tried.
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+ MXL i am a proud owner of 2 mxl's!!! the secret to it though is to use a mic preamp for ultra results which i don't have yet haha but tried.
I put my V63M thru my ART Studio V3 and it just blossomed. I wonder what the V69 will sound like since I heard so many good things about it.
What model MXL's do you have, balta?
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What model MXL's do you have, balta?
i have the mxl 990 and 991 . sucks though it didn't include a shockmount... u guys have extra ?? hehe :)
how is the V63M?? did u order it from the states too??
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Yup! It's the Mogami edition, 1" LDC, came with shockmount. "El Cheapo" as I like to call it , but it came out surprisingly good.
I was doing a voice-over demo for some MassCom studes thesis. First thing I reached for was the SM-58 plugged into my ART (like who could go wrong with that combi?). The take was kinda okay... then I did a what if? Plugged in the MXL, turned on phantom... and the airiness I was looking for was there! That mic even figured in a VO flash commercial for the Kitchie/Rivermaya concert in Araneta last year.
Oh, and the MassCom studes? Their demo came out tops beating out other groups who had their demos produced by "professionals".
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I agree about the MXL's. I have a V67G and it works pretty well for what I need it for. I also have the Samson C1 but not the USB version of it. I think for the money you pay for it, it is decent.
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AT4040 - affordable, decent sounding, teeny weeny bit less "open" than the shure KSM32, but close. these japanese made LDC's are very ruggedly built.
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A budget condenser might not sound as good as a good dynamic.
I've read that AKG has like a budget mic kit... it's called the Project Pack. with C1000 or something and a budget vocal condenser. Just checked the net, it's the C3000 large condenser.
Dunno how these fare.
Shure also introduced their KSM27... the most affordable among their studio KSM line. It's tailored unlike the 32 which is relatively flat. Targetted more for live apps... it's still a KSM, so it's better than an SM58... but then again, each mic gives it's own tonal characteristic so it really depends on what sound you're after. I know some rock vocalists in the US use the SM57 as their vocal mic.
What's your budget? Usually, when you hit the "condensers for vocals" level... you kinda have to be prepared to spend... so when you say "cheapest"... what do you mean by it?
Everyone has a different concept of "cheap"... "cheapest" condenser for a studio owner in the US is in a different price range than "cheapest" condenser by someone recording into an SB Audigy. I'm just trying to see what your budget is. We all might be recommending things that are above or below your price range.
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I've read that AKG has like a budget mic kit... it's called the Project Pack. with C1000 or something and a budget vocal condenser. Just checked the net, it's the C3000 large condenser.
C1000s + C3000s project pack kit is not budget. Great for acoustic guitars, vocals and overheads.
AKG's budget line is the Perception series.
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I stand corrected. I just saw it on a website as a "starter pack" recommendation.
Shure has their budget PG81 (runs about P6-7k I think) but this is NOT a vocal mic. It's fine for classical guitars and other strings... even cymbals and hi-hats. It does have a decent dynamic range and decent detail for a real budget mic... but again, the PG81 is NOT a vocal mic. Shure claims it can be used on vocals using their optional windscreen... but vocals might come across as bright and a bit harsh.
You may also want to consider the Shure SM86. It's an end address condenser...and it's not as expensive as their KSM line.
(As you can tell, I'm partial to Shure mics mainly due to their rugged construction and fairly good price/performance ratio..not to mention Audiophile's support in terms of spare parts and all)
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SHURE microphones are standards, in the studio or on the stage. I haven't tried the newer KSM lines but the old standards I've got such as...
- SM57 (can't live w/o this one)
- SM7
- Beta52
- SM81
but SHURE ain't cheap. :D
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SM-7 - underrated secret weapon of some...
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anyone know where i can get mxl or audio technica mics locally?
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Audi technica is distributed by audiophile
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Uhhh...EM80 ? :D
Seriously I attempted to DIY a vocal mic based on an EM80. Grabe ang feedback na inabot ko.
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Uhhh...EM80 ? :D
Seriously I attempted to DIY a vocal mic based on an EM80. Grabe ang feedback na inabot ko.
Di ba electret condenser yun? I also think it has an omnidirectional polar pattern so you might have to reduce the gain substantially.
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Actually, I had a 1 M pot in series with the signal. But just as soon as the microphone picked up my "hello mike test" it also went "wheeeeeeeeee".
Back to the drawing board.
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Hi! Try Shure SM94 or MX202.
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Hi! Try Shure SM94 or MX202.
You do realize these are small diaphragm condensers that cost around $200.
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It's just a suggestion, but it's worth the try. :D Or try Nady condenser mics. I think they are cheap. Just not sure of the quality coz i haven't tried them yet.
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Try the Audio Technika AT2020. I'd recommend trying out some MXL's but I don't know of any local supplier.
Nagtanong ako sa audiophile sa cubao................ may suggest sila sakin na Audio Technica na P2K lng tapos slim pwede daw pang vocal.......... Nakalimutan ko na yung model...........
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i'd get the ADK Hamburg/Vienna or the Studio Projects C1 for vocals. Even an SM-57/58 would sound superb if paired with a decent mic pre.
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sirs...audio teknika ang recommend ng audiophile...pero panu po kaya kung ang condenser mic ideally for choir (music ministry where 3 or more sing from the con mic) ok pa din ba ung AT...?
salamat..gbu
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guys what can you say about the sound quality of behringer c-1 and c-2 condensers? besides being cheap, i just need a decent stereo pair for micing drums. anybody here who has actual experience with them?
available na yung c-2 sa electronics depot for 4500 so im getting myself one and a c-1 for recording vocals. the only other option that will fit my budget are a pair of nady cm88 which is 2200 each.
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guys what can you say about the sound quality of behringer c-1 and c-2 condensers? besides being cheap, i just need a decent stereo pair for micing drums. anybody here who has actual experience with them?
available na yung c-2 sa electronics depot for 4500 so im getting myself one and a c-1 for recording vocals. the only other option that will fit my budget are a pair of nady cm88 which is 2200 each.
cheap din pala, masmura pa sa AT...pede din ba to sa choir(3 or more singers sims)????
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guys what can you say about the sound quality of behringer c-1 and c-2 condensers? besides being cheap, i just need a decent stereo pair for micing drums. anybody here who has actual experience with them?
available na yung c-2 sa electronics depot for 4500 so im getting myself one and a c-1 for recording vocals. the only other option that will fit my budget are a pair of nady cm88 which is 2200 each.
cheap din pala, masmura pa sa AT...pede din ba to sa choir(3 or more singers sims)????
Let's just say with the Behri's, you get what you pay for.
With choirs, it's usually recommended that you use large diaphragm condensers, but I've been toying with the idea of using omnis and/or pressure zone mics like the Crown PZMs.
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put it this way, it's better to save your money rather than buying a piece of [gooey brown stuff] that you have to polish the [gooey brown stuff] out that turd! It's a waste of money not buying a decent mics. Go for the Studio Projects or Sterling Sound and put a nice front end mic pre-amp. Don't forget not to crank the mic pre you'll wind up a lot of noise floor.
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cheap has its uses.
i give that advice to fellow drummers myself, to save up and get better equipment but since this is recording gear and only secondary to my needs, id rather spend on a minimum :D
besides, im riding on the premise that the behringers have much better sound quality than the mics that were used in the 60's and 70's (im going for that motown sound, hifi optional). it couldnt be all that bad...i hope :oops:
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besides, im riding on the premise that the behringers have much better sound quality than the mics that were used in the 60's and 70's (im going for that motown sound, hifi optional). it couldnt be all that bad...i hope :oops:
Wouldja believe that I'm on the hunt for SM-57's from that era and maybe earlier? They used to be called Unidynes and were still manufactured in the US. From what I've researched so far, they sound better than present day SM-57s.
I wouldn't be so quick to diss old, dated equipment (Neumann U-47 comes to mind). I've been experimenting with old Akai dynamics my dad used with his open reel and they have a peculiar and potentially useful sound.
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i have a unidyne, the 55sh i got cheap from a bar in olongapo which i paid for only 1500 pesos. i only use it as a display though, couldnt practically use it due to feedback problems.
i just ordered the c2 and a studio projects c1 last night from music123. sana umabot dun sa maghahandcarry by the 6th.
I wouldn't be so quick to diss old, dated equipment (Neumann U-47 comes to mind). I've been experimenting with old Akai dynamics my dad used with his open reel and they have a peculiar and potentially useful sound.
what i was really trying to say is that if the c2 existed during those times, it could have been considered as a high quality mic rather than a mediocre piece of gear today. i really should not make any more comparisons.
pretend to forget about it being a behringer. my primary purpose is to record my playing and to improve in playing, not be a good engineer. id rather pay you guys to record me if i want it to sound really really nice.
besides we cant really discuss expensive mics in a cheap condenser mic thread coz we'd be off topic jok jok jok :lol:
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I love the retro looks of the 55SH but to be honest, its feedback rejection left much to be desired that's why Shure has an updated version.
I'm not dissing Behringers but their quality is sometimes hit or miss. I also don't think that 20 -30 years from now, they will be considered collector's items but you'll never know.
That said, you made a good choice on the SP C1. I, for one, would like to see more of these budget brands available here such as ADK, MXL, Oktava, CAD, Red5 Audio, Superlux and even the budget Blue Ball mics. Sadly, very few of these brands ever make it here and even fewer local musicians know they exist. I own and use an MXL V63M and all I can say is that for $69, it's surprisingly good especially when paired with the right preamp - makes me curious enough to consider their V67G, V69 and V6 models.
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Let's just say with the Behri's, you get what you pay for.
With choirs, it's usually recommended that you use large diaphragm condensers, but I've been toying with the idea of using omnis and/or pressure zone mics like the Crown PZMs.
sir kitC, salamat sa recommendation...which makes the other tanung...
hmmm...san po ba makakabili nito large diaphragm condensers- ?ung AudioTeknika(specifc model - w/c sa audiophile nga) o any model(AT,shure, studio projects ... di ko kasi lam kung anu ok...like this thread says " Cheapest Condenser w/ Quality") specifically for Choir singing...
salamat...ngatz..gbu
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bindoy,
The 2 cheapest, locally available LDC condensers around are the Audio Teknika AT-2020 and the Samson C01 (not the usb version). I think Audiophile carries these 2 brands.
As for choir recording, how large are we talking about and what's the venue? There are a lot of logistics involved especially if you intend to mic the SATB sections individually and might have to include 1 mic for the soloist/s. Here's an excellent article on the subject from Sound on Sound (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep99/articles/location.htm). Part 2 here (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct99/articles/location.htm).
Remember, the investment on 4 or 5 condensers will be sizeable, plus you will need a suitable mixer/preamp with phantom power for these condensers.
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actually this is the case...
its primarily used sa live worship(SATB accompaniment)...eh bago lang kami ng upgrade into recording our live outakes...from barok cassette...to DVD recording na...sana nga makapag PC nakmi sa recording namin...planning pa talaga
ang laki kasi ng tulong at improvement kapag narerecord ang live out takes e...naririnig ang palpak...hehe
as for the venue...indoor talaga good for seating 200-250 persons...pero since budget kami...kahit sa labas malamang magagamit...
as for AT and samson.masmaganda siguro AT...i really dont know their durability and specific use for live e...
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as for the venue...indoor talaga good for seating 200-250 persons...pero since budget kami...kahit sa labas malamang magagamit...
Considering the intended usage, I'd get some SM-58s instead. Maybe get one condenser if you intend to overdub vocals later in a recording studio environment.
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magkano ba chepaest presyohan ng SM57's ngayon at saan ?
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magkano ba chepaest presyohan ng SM57's ngayon at saan ?
Medyo OT post mo, bugoy. I suggest PMing Sir Tarkuz on the SM57.
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Considering the intended usage, I'd get some SM-58s instead. Maybe get one condenser if you intend to overdub vocals later in a recording studio environment.
salamat!!!ngatz...gbu
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I don't think an sm58 will ever be as good as even the
cheapest of condensers when recording vocals. Period. Well unless the singer was Elvis or someone of that caliber. Cguro kaying pantayin ni Elvis kahit 58 gamit nya.
Iba un dynamics na kaying i-capture ng condenser. Using an ordinary pc,
through a cheap mixer the 58 is ngo ngo. Iba din yun high end boost na dala ng condensers, na hindi kaya ibigay ng dynamics. If you want to record vocals, cheap condensers are way better than a 58. Iba naman kasi un intended use ng 58, live singing, where a great proximity effect
could be useful to the singer. pero sa recording that proximity boost effect
can be bad news. In recording, the high end detail is more inportant for the voice than the low end body. Kaya nothing beats condensers for recording vocals. Pwede dayain using an antares Mic modeler, but even the folks
from antares said you'd get more condenser-like sound using a condenser.
Common sense nalang, kung mas ok 58's sa recording vocals bakit condensers parin ginagamit sa studio. Yun "some" na sinasabi na gumagamit ng 57, nagpapuso sila siguro and are after a different sound,
like Chad smith using a 57 on the kick. Pero on vocals, usually it's a condenser.
I don't trust the quality of Samson. Check the reviews on the net. Mejo
not as detailed, or slightly boomy or not as good on the high end frequencies. Un review ng AT2020 I checked were okay. Even the pro recording mags are praising it.
And think about it dude. Samson is like the cousin of Behringer, meron naman good products sure, but not quite the same in terms of quality compared to a shure, boss or mackie. Common sense diba? On the other hand, Audio Technica is famous for Microphones. CONDENSER microphones ONLY. So the logical conclusion, granting that some audio purchases are calculated risks, is that the At2020 is the best choice in the Philippines. Unless u want to risk ordering online. Pay for the shipping if its broke.
There's the behringer B1, pero naman at 7+ k. Un AT2020 4.5k.
If you can spend 2.5k-3.5-4k on a cheap condenser from
a shotgun strike anywhere company like samson or Behringer,
why not consider going with a name, even a Pro recordist could be proud of.
I like cheap, but I would want the best.
It all depends on what quality means to you.
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There's the behringer B1, pero naman at 7+ k. Un AT2020 4.5k.
If you can spend 2.5k-3.5-4k on a cheap condenser from
a shotgun strike anywhere company like samson or Behringer,
why not consider going with a name, even a Pro recordist could be proud of.
I like cheap, but I would want the best.
It all depends on what quality means to you.
where can we buy AT2020 for 4.5k?
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Audio-Technica products are distributed in the Philippines by Sound & Music People, tel. 339-0767 or 562-6635. A-T products are available at all Audiophile stores. Please click here for location of branches (http://www.audiophilecomponents.com/branches.php).
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Audiophile at P4,355.
Just bot one today.
I chose between Samson Co1, Behringer B1 and C1. Yun lang naman ang cheap condensers available sa Pinas. Mahal un B1, but includes a case
and shock mount. Price-wise and based on good reviews on the net
I chose the 2020. Shempre yun pangalan din counts. Like chosing
a Fender over a Washburn.
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just tested my new AT2020. Hooked it up to my UB1202 mixer.
Like i said I like it cheap.
I was very pleased with the results. Imagine I started doing recordings
on a Teac cassette deck, then a Tascam 4 track with a decent karaoke mic. Got Antares Mic Modeler( dont ask where) and started Pc recording on a soundblaster. Using an imitation Senhheiser which I must say is an excellent karaoke mic. After years,
Eventually i learned to use software to get a
decent vocal sound. I had sang into a condenser once in a real studio and
never forgot it. So even if i had a virtual condenser sound via Antares,
i even tried out an sm58 borrowed from a friend, but in the end I wasn't
satisfied with the sound. It took a lot of EQ plugins and antares adjustments just to get a decent sound. I also hate recording vocals
holding the mic too close to the mouth like your gonna eat it.
So now when i tried recording on the AT2020, I had this feeling i wont be reaching for my plugins that much. In fact I tried the antares with a test vocal on At2020 and it sounds studio-like already. Atleast 10 times better than the recordings I got using dynamics.
The vocals sound natural and clear. Very balanced. Not too bright and not too boomy. Very transparent to my ears. I read that some cheap
condensers are brittle on the high end and can be harsh. Not the 2020.
Others like the samson co1 lack a bit of high end presence and tend to be
a bit muddy sounding I've read.
I'm happy with my purchase. Now i can record the subtle nuances of my voice quite easily.
My music room or "bodega" has officially become a home studio.
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Nice mini review and congrats on the transformation of your 'bodega', YJM! :D
I hope this will not be the last of your comments on the 2020. Sana as you gain more experience with it, you can help enlighten those looking for affordable condensers.
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Hey thanks for the acknowledgement there Kit.
Actually I've got some GAS as a result of my purchase.
Now I'm thinking of cheap Pre's and other mics like the Studio projects
B1 and the MXL 2001 and other series. Mura lang yon sa Music 123
If i get a chance to go to the states or if some relative
perhaps. Maybe someday. Tapos meron pre's, VTB1, DMp3, TPS II,
mic2200 ( meron dito kaso mahal ), kahit nga studio buddy lang ng M-Audio, interesado ako.
Well I'll be checking these post from time to time. Catch you later KIT.