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The Musician Forums => Guitar Central => Topic started by: lolwat on April 26, 2013, 09:01:05 PM
Title: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on April 26, 2013, 09:01:05 PM
I don't want to threadhack hetfield_2k2's thread, so I decided to start a new one.
I have been fortunate enough to acquire a lot of equipment over the years, along with some live playing experience, allowing me to have a reasonable "feel" of how certain methods work and what shortcomings they may have. I have been able to develop this method in my search for a more or less consistent live sound, whether it be with my stomps, or my multi effects unit.
This method can be divided into 2 parts: one where you need to have headphones/component/hifi speakers and a gig-worthy amp, and the other where you need analog stomps, an a/b box and the amp.
Things needed: *Method A: -headphones/hifi speakers -an mp3 player or phone containing reference tracks (backing track, reference guitar tone, etc.) -gig-worthy amp (primary consideration being speaker size, where 10 or 12 inch is ideal) -guitar, multifx unit, cables
*Method B: -analog stomps -a/b box -gig-worthy amp -guitar, multifx, necessary number of cables (at least 6 of reasonable length)
a Method C can also be done, but will require slightly more complex routing and lots of cables. one simply needs to have both the headphones/hifi speakers and with the analog stomps in handy.
to be continued...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multieffects units
Post by: lolwat on April 26, 2013, 09:51:40 PM
…continued
TL; DR of Method A -have a reference speaker/headphones ready. Any generic 2.1 system/computer speakers/generic headphones will do, as long as they produce sound nicely. -use/borrow a big amp with 10/12 inch speakers. these are best for our purpose. -choose a nice guitar-oriented song similar to the style of music you play in. -play guitar, and tweak as you listen to the track. get the two as close as possible. -do further tweaks according to taste. just don't make it sound RADICALLY different to ensure your sound won't get crappy. Method A, Part 1
Method A involves listening to a reference track through hifi speakers or headphones in order to get in the ballpark of a sound one is trying to achieve.
Typically, gigging amplifiers are equipped with 10 or 12 inch speakers, and generally sound and feel more powerful than smaller speakers. Doing our setup with such speakers will more or less ensure that one gets a consistently good sound through whichever amplifier one plugs into.
One should select a hifi speaker or pair of headphones that have a fairly clear and flat frequency response to make the most out of this method, but you definitely don’t need audiophile-grade reference monitors or headphones for this. Just get ones that sound okay and aren’t broken. While one may typically find amps with cd/mp3 inputs, it is not recommended that you listen to your reference tracks this way.
In order to make things more interesting, I’ll include pictures of the whole procedure and sample setups.
Our sample reference speaker is a Laney LA65D acoustic amplifier (this belongs to my father): (https://image.ibb.co/f1XBfa/400755_10151561638772822_606470208_n.jpg)
Our sample amp is a Laney LC50-II combo: (https://image.ibb.co/mXtTRF/164218_10151561639222822_86579961_n.jpg)
Our sample effects unit is a Digitech RP500: (https://image.ibb.co/fBZ2mF/644634_10151561638462822_1090351057_n.jpg)
And our sample guitar is an Ibanez RG350EX: (https://image.ibb.co/eh8HLa/936566_10151561638892822_947224763_n.jpg)
up next, let's set up these things and see how we should wire them all up.
to be continued...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multieffects units
Post by: lolwat on April 26, 2013, 10:41:59 PM
...continued
Method A, Part 2
First, determine how one would want to plug the multi effects unit into the amp. For units with stompbox modeling only (i.e., Boss ME50, Line 6 M Series), one can plug straight into the amp input.Start with all of the amp's eq knobs at 12 o'clock and tweak the overall tonality from there.
For units that have amp modeling as well, it’s best to plug into the effects loop return/CD/MP3 in of the amp. Doing this means you won’t be able to use the amp’s built in EQ and gain controls, so all of the tweaking will be on the multi effects unit itself.
Most effects loops can be found at the back of the amp, but if no effects loops can be found, plugging into the CD/MP3 in of an amp that has this will serve the same purpose as plugging into an effects return.
The Laney’s effects loop, right beside the footswitch in and near the speaker out: (https://image.ibb.co/f8hYtv/298156_10151561687287822_264276680_n.jpg)
This amp has a CD in, which can also be used as an effects return when no loop is present: (https://image.ibb.co/ifiv6F/934739_10151561687657822_1252790492_n.jpg)
Select a preset bank on your effect unit and turn off all the effects (compression, modulation, delay, reverb, etc.) and leave the amp model/distortion model on, unless you’re trying to make a clean preset. Set the amp/stompbox controls to the midway position except gain and volume, which you set according to taste and listening comfort.
For amp models, if your particular unit has cabinet modeling, set it to direct or no cabinet modeling. This feature is useful when you plug straight into a mixer or PA, but not when you’re running into an actual guitar amp.
Here I selected a Mesa "Mark IV" model: (https://image.ibb.co/ebtHLa/385824_10151561687472822_238555645_n.jpg)
Then I set the cabinet model to "Direct": (https://image.ibb.co/iC7NmF/163529_10151561687217822_1577253297_n.jpg)
Next up, set up your reference speakers/headphones by plugging in your phone or mp3 player with the desired reference tracks. These tracks can be pretty much any guitar sound or song that you would like to approach the sound of. My favored reference is John Petrucci's guitar stem from "On the Backs of Angels" found on
The key is to find a song or track with a clear representation of a guitar played within the context of a band. This is because most of the time you won't be playing alone, and even if you're a bedroom player you will still be using backing tracks. You might find that such guitar sounds tend to be less than amazing when isolated, but with other instruments playing it will sound just fine.
to be continued...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multieffects units
Post by: lolwat on April 29, 2013, 09:22:30 PM
…continued
Method A, Part 3
To be honest, “profiling” a guitar tone is not exactly easy. However, the process is simplified a little if one is familiar with the gear used in the reference track. For example, John Petrucci has been known to use Mesa Boogie Mark Series Amplifiers, particularly the IIC+, IV, and V, and an Ibanez Tubescreamer as a boost. As a lot of smaller multi effects units cannot run both an amp model and a distortion pedal model at the same time, the amp model alone will do.
In most small multi effects units the “EQ” knobs DO NOT work like the ones on most physical amplifier front faces. They are usually active EQ controls that cut or boost a specific frequency range, which actually make them more flexible than their analog counterparts. However, they also make it easy to mess up the tone, one of the reasons why multi effects units are associated with amateur players with less-than-stellar live tones.
This is the very reason I recommend that one sets up one’s personal sound with the use of reference tones – it’s easier to judge if a certain knob or setting is making the guitar’s main tone sound unnatural, whether it be harsh, dull, scooped, or honky, whichever adjective you care to use. Besides, audio engineers and record producers have been using this trick for years to achieve their desired mixes.
Here I have set up a basic tone with an overdrive model engaged, a “MARK IV” amp model with no cabinet modeling, and an additional EQ section, indicated by the red lights glowing beside the labels “DISTORTION,” “AMP/CABINET,” and “EQUALIZER:” (https://image.ibb.co/hHLKYv/936250_10151566364777822_331459749_n.jpg)
Here is a clip comparing the reference track and the model I came up with. It’s not perfectly matched because I took into account the slightly harsh character of the mic’ed amplifier, and the fact that I do not have the exact equipment John uses, but it works nicely, and I actually use this as my live sound: https://soundcloud.com/jolo-carrera/reference-tone-vs-modeled-tone
Up next: Method B - "Profiling" an actual analog stomps rig using an A/B box
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: Mocho on April 30, 2013, 09:19:59 AM
Nice thread :), Sir pareho lang ba yung Line in at CD in? I never tried yung CD in as effects loop, matry nga.
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on April 30, 2013, 03:25:08 PM
Nice thread :), Sir pareho lang ba yung Line in at CD in? I never tried yung CD in as effects loop, matry nga.
for the purpose of bypassing the preamp, yup. may konting difference regarding levels, pero i think such issues are generally negligible with guitar-related equipment.
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: magtataho7 on April 30, 2013, 07:17:20 PM
wow nice nice...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: shkc on May 02, 2013, 06:13:56 AM
sir, sa laney lx35r yung cd in nya is RCA... then my phones input na PL..san po pwede i-plug?
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on May 02, 2013, 08:47:42 AM
sir, sa laney lx35r yung cd in nya is RCA... then my phones input na PL..san po pwede i-plug?
bili ka ng pl to rca adaptor, dun mo sa rca isaksak.
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: Xelly on May 02, 2013, 08:52:36 AM
Subscribed! :-)
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on May 02, 2013, 12:25:17 PM
Intermission!
Using Muffs or Earplugs When Comparing Your Tweak Against a Reference Track
-After feeling like you have come reasonably close to the reference track of your choice, try moving around the room to see if the sound changes as your ears' proximity from, and angle with respect to, the speaker varies. Try to see what settings change the least as you move around.
-at this point, just to be sure that you have setup a live-worthy tone that sounds good at any listening condition, take a pair of earplugs or muffs and compare your tweak to the reference tone yet again. Chances are they would suddenly sound different once again. :cry:
To offset this, tweak your unit to get it close to the reference track with the plugs on, take off your plugs and compare. Stay with the settings that change little with or without the earplugs on. If done well, the particular preset you tweaked will be useable from gig to gig. Enjoy!
Here are a few examples of good earplugs/muffs you can buy for reasonable prices (usually for the price equivalent of 2 or 3 Jazz III picks @ Ace Hardware) and will even protect you from hearing damage:
Muffs - This one is widely used both by drummers and gunsmen, but may not be best for guitar players due to the drastic sound change when wearing them: (http://greenstateservices.com/images/products/detail/SoundOutEarMuffs.jpg)
Foam type - These ones are a little better and easier to use, but may lose their plasticity over time: (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-j9eXpLkNugI/TsQ8H3Oef3I/AAAAAAAABa8/QfxH84WmNY8/s1600/earplugs.jpg)
Reusable earplugs (3-flange variety shown) - These are the ones I recommend to my musician friends, as they are reusable, durable, and the volume reduction is acceptable: (http://3mcollision.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/9/0/90585_3M-Tri-Flange-Reusable-earplugs.jpg)
up next: tweaking with actual stomps as reference...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on May 02, 2013, 10:52:06 PM
ALRIGHT!
TL; DR of Method B -prepare/borrow an analog rig from a friend (usually you only need the distortion pedals, but having the power supply handy will help as well) -prepare/borrow an A/B box (or make one, lots of schematics on the net). If your multi effects unit is to be plugged into the input like normal stomps, choose an A/B box with send/return inputs -prepare at least 6 cables of suitable length (10 feet or so). The A/B box with send/return functions will need at least 6 cables, otherwise, you only really need 5 -have a gig-ready amp ready, as in Method A
Method B, Part 1
Method B involves the use of an actual analog stomp rig (or a set of gain-based pedals like compression, distortion, overdrive, etc.) as reference for our multi effects unit. This offers several advantages over Method A:
-Much of the "magic" that analog rigs and stompboxes have has a lot to do with the sonic, "tactile" interaction that happens among the individual components. The guitar feeding the front end of a good tube amp or top quality pedal produces a sound that can be described using many flattering adjectives, but suffice to say it's a very different, interactive, and rewarding experience that has inspired, and continues to inspire, countless players. Setting up our unit in reference to this exact analog feel can potentially make our multi effects unit sound and feel more natural and useable, whereas Method A only ensures we sound good from the audience's point of view.
-Tweaking analog pedals is usually more failsafe compared to tweaking digital effects. Many popular brands and models of distortion and overdrive pedals, for example, allow just enough tweak options to keep them versatile, but are also more or less carefully designed so the chances of dialing in a really bad sound is less. Consequently, this frees the user to chase after a more personalized, yet still musical, guitar sound which might fit their needs better.
-As most popular models of overdrive or distortion are found in virtually all multi effects units, comparing settings with the pedal is a lot easier, and can potentially speed up the setup process.
Some disadvantages of Method B are as follows:
-to be able to reliably compare your multi effects unit to an analog rig, you will need an A/B box pedal, like a Boss LS-2 or similar, to quickly switch between the two. Of course, pulling cables out from one rig and plugging them into the other can work, but this is a lot more clumsy, and the human ears are notorious for having the ability to adapt quickly to sound changes even within intervals of seconds, which will be detrimental to our goal.
-Consequently, this will involve a lot more cabling than usual - one from the guitar into the A/B box input, 2 from the A/B box into either unit and, depending on how you plan to run your rigs, between 2 to 4 cables to plug into the amplifiers. At the very least, have 6 cables of reasonable length ready. I'll explain in a later post.
-One further complication is that, with some amplifiers equipped with series effects loops, you cannot run a signal into input and plug something into the effects return without one of the two signals being cut out. Some entry-level Laney amps have this issue, but Marshalls, at least the MG I own, don't.
Up next, setting up the analog stomps to your tastes, and hooking everything up. I'll include pictures to make things slightly easier.
to be continued...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: hetfield_2k2 on May 02, 2013, 11:14:26 PM
a lengthy good read... good job bro! a lot of people need a thread like this... how i wish i could’ve had the same equipment as yours so i could explore more :))
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on May 02, 2013, 11:17:55 PM
a lengthy good read... good job bro! a lot of people need a thread like this... how i wish i could’ve had the same equipment as yours so i could explore more :))
Salamat bro :-) Rest assured I will post more content para makatulong pa lalo sa fellow multi effects users, and fellow guitarists in general :)
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: kebs on May 02, 2013, 11:34:28 PM
I'm not sure why, but when I first read the title of the thread (without looking at the username of the TS), I thought it had to be you. :lol:
Anyway, nice thread! I'm sure this is going to be a big help to a lot of our fellow forumites here. Wish I could say I'd be able to use these tips and tricks, but as it is, I'm now just a bedroom player. But it's an interesting read nonetheless. Keep it up!
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on May 02, 2013, 11:55:41 PM
I'm not sure why, but when I first read the title of the thread (without looking at the username of the TS), I thought it had to be you. :lol:
Anyway, nice thread! I'm sure this is going to be a big help to a lot of our fellow forumites here. Wish I could say I'd be able to use these tips and tricks, but as it is, I'm now just a bedroom player. But it's an interesting read nonetheless. Keep it up!
Salamat kuya Kev! :) See you around! :lol: (demo ng HD300 pagkabili mo hihihi)
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: shkc on May 03, 2013, 06:16:42 AM
bili ka ng pl to rca adaptor, dun mo sa rca isaksak.
thanks sir... this thread of yours is a big help... God bless
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on May 04, 2013, 09:20:58 AM
Thanks to the diligent moderators who have found ways to shrink the pictures to more manageable sizes :) I can't seem to do the same without degrading the overall quality of the picture :-)
Intermission!
What exactly are A/B boxes? What kinds are there?
A/B boxes are switching devices used to quickly select between two signal paths with a flick (or stomp) of a switch. A/B boxes can be designed to accomplish many switching tasks such as selecting between two active amplifiers, speaker cabinets, or backup guitars. The ones designed for use in pedalboards can be utilized to simultaneously engage or disengage entire signal chains composed of various effects side by side, without much of the tap dancing often associated with big analog pedalboards.
Boss' quick demo of the LS-2, a popular choice for an A/B box pedal, best demonstrates its usefulness:
Types of A/B boxes
We can classify for-use-with-stompbox A/B boxes in terms of routing scheme, and whether it's a passive or buffered design.
*By routing scheme -A/B box without send/return A/B boxes like this simply give you the option to run your source signal (usually just the guitar) into either of two paths, both of which can be plugged into a separate amp/mixer each. They may or may not have a Y option (running the source signal into both paths). An example of this is the Morley ABY Selector/Combiner Switch.
-A/B box with send/return Designs like these give you the option to route the two signal paths into a single output, like the Boss LS-2. They may or may not have the Y option as well.
*Passive or buffered -Passive A/B box These are often called "true bypass" switchers, which should not be mistaken for the actual true bypass switchers whose job is to physically take out a guitar effect from the signal path and give the guitarist a dry uneffected signal. Passive A/B boxes use no electronics to switch between signal paths, and are capable of a Y option via a second switch. Depending on design, some switchers of this type might also have some popping sounds caused by pedal circuits storing up charge in its capacitors when not selected.
-Buffered A/B box These designs often employ some form of circuitry to enhance the source signal before sending it to the signal chains it will feed. This ensures that there will be no popping, allows for a Y option, and can even allow for volume controls as in the Boss LS-2. However, having too many pedals with buffered bypass circuitry in any guitar signal chain may have undesirable effects on one's dry guitar sound.
Depending on the pedals you will be using and where you will be plugging them in, you may prefer a certain permutation of the four classifications. Generally, fuzz pedals do not like buffered signals fed to them, so take this into consideration if you own/borrowed a fuzz pedal and would like to use this method.
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on October 28, 2013, 12:28:33 AM
I'm back! :-D tuloy ko lang yung thread from where I left off last time :-)
Method B, Part 2
If the analog rig and multi rig is meant to be plugged into the input of the amp, you will need an A/B box with send/returns, like the Boss LS-2. As with Method A, start with the amp's EQ knobs at 12 o'clock, and work from there. Start tweaking the analog stompbox/es to taste, with the kind of clean/dirt tone you'd use with a band (i.e. a little more treble and mids, a little less bass, etc.).
If you plan to use your digital multi as an effects loop-only device like I often do with mine, simple a/b boxes without send/return plugs work fine. If you only have a/b boxes like the LS-2, you only need to plug in your cables into the in (from the guitar) and then into the 2 sends (for each rig you plan to switch between), ignoring the 2 returns and outs.
For more complex multieffects units which allow the use of both amp sims AND stompbox models, you have some minor decision making to do - whether to emulate the pedal-into-amp configuration, or to simply select a standalone amp sim that sounds close to the pedal you own/borrowed. I personally advocate the latter because there's less tweaking on the multi that way, but either can work nicely.
If you get your dirt tones from stacking two pedals, I got the best results by referencing each pedal separately on my RP500, with the main drive made to correspond to the amp sim, and the booster pedal to the pedal sim. For units that can't run amp and pedal sims simultaneously, sometimes choosing a relatively high gain amp model and controlling the gain to match the feel of stacked pedals works fine.
to be continued...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: CeL1916 on October 28, 2013, 12:39:45 AM
Sticky this? :wave:
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on October 28, 2013, 12:53:12 AM
hopefully! will try to complete this before the year ends :-)
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: iceblink-luck on October 29, 2013, 01:37:38 AM
this is the untold story! please feed us more info..sticky :-)
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: hetfield_2k2 on October 29, 2013, 08:50:44 PM
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on October 29, 2013, 08:53:52 PM
thanks you guys! :wave:
Intermission!
TL; DR -You can't plug units tweaked for fx returns into amp inputs, and vice versa -units tweaked for fx returns cannot work with amp inputs due to ADDITIONAL gain stages -units tweaked for amp inputs cannot work with fx returns because they DEPEND on additional gain stages -fx return units sound more consistent from amp to amp; amp input units change slightly depending on what you plug into (i.e. it can potentially sound better with better amps) - choose which one fits your gigging needs better
NOTE: If it's not clear by now, a multi-effects setup for the effects return cannot be plugged into the amp input directly, and vice-versa. Setting your multi-effects for either method means you're taking into consideration the number of "gain stages" you're manipulating (for starters, modern clean amps have at least 2 gain stages, vintage ones 3 or 4, and high gain distorted signals 5 or more) and whether you're getting most your sound from the amp or your effects unit.
Plugging into the effects return means you're bypassing most, if not all, of your amp's useable gain stages. This is why you might often find yourself breaking into a cold sweat the moment you plug in your multi's high gain setting into a high volume amplifier's input - all you'll probably hear is uncontrollable feedback and mush due to your (at least) 5 "virtual" gain stages being cascaded into the amp's built in ones.
In other words, the perfect setting you tweaked on, say, a computer, a smaller amp, or through headphones, is potentially exposed to further distortion via the gig-level amp at high levels - the kind of distortion that ruins the tonal balance you oh so carefully crafted at lower volumes. Additionally, your amp's natural voicing (i.e. what makes Fender, Vox, Marshall, Mesa, etc. amplifiers sound different from one another) and EQ will interact further with your unit, even with the controls set at 12 o'clock. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
On the other hand, plugging into the amp input means you're building on the gain stages (at least 2) of the amp. This way, you're using your unit like a programmable analog pedalboard, and your sound will rely largely on the tonal quality of the amp you plug into.
The good news is that plugging into an awesome amp will, more often than not, make YOU sound awesome :lol: The bad news is that plugging into worse amps will require you to compensate for its poor quality via extensive tweaking on the amp EQ, as well as on the unit itself.
Plugging the multi-effects meant for an amp input into an effects return will yield safer, but nonetheless lousy, sounds. A couple of gain stages less, and no amp EQ to "carry" the unit's tonality, your tone will sound dull, and the volume will probably be slightly lower than what you'd expect. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
At the end of the day, the two methods I have described above fulfill the same duties in slightly different ways.
The emphasis of effects return-based units is consistency - the same general feel and tonality can be achieved on pretty much any amp with the required inputs, with minimal or no tweaking.
The emphasis of amp input-based units is "naturalness" of tone - since more often than not you'll find yourself plugging into something analog, tube or solid state, you're already going to be "riding" on analog preamp circuitry, using your unit only to enhance whatever sound that's already in the amp. Again, plugging into a tube Fender or Marshall almost always guarantees that you'll sound awesome, carrying with it the risk that one day you'd eventually find yourself staring down a stinky, dilapidated solid state with AM radio quality tone.
Granted, even the fx return method won't save you from such horrible amps, but such a scenario still needs to be taken into consideration. Thankfully, the "worst" amps I've seen used for live gigs so far are Laney LX65 combos, which aren't too bad, and are accommodating of both methods of tweaking.
to be continued...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on October 31, 2013, 06:31:19 PM
Method B, Part 3 - pictures of connections
For analog and digital units both meant to be plugged into the amp input, here is a sample setup: (https://image.ibb.co/ceSBfa/1451340_10151938693547822_1922943344_n.jpg)
Again, the digital unit we're using is a Digitech RP500 setup for an amp input (hence, the preset name "AMP IN 1"). The black-looking pedal on top is the distortion unit we're modeling, an MI Audio Tube Zone V4. The grey pedal with the green LED on is my DIY A/B switcher box.
The connections on my particular A/B box are as follows: (https://image.ibb.co/jGFa6F/1451534_10151938745902822_1237473719_n.jpg)
When you step on the A/B box's footswitch, it can very quickly change signal chains from the Tube Zone to the RP500 with one click. This will come in handy as the most reliable way to listen to the two units side by side is to stomp on the switch multiple times. Doing this, you will hear the smallest differences between the two units that you wouldn't have heard if you simply reached down and manually plug each pedal into your amp and guitar.
NOTE: The Boss LS-2's connections are the reverse of mine - the send plugs are on the left side, while the return plugs are on the right, like so: (https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/s--VXeGTcY0--/a_exif,c_limit,e_unsharp_mask:80,f_auto,fl_progressive,g_south,h_620,q_90,w_620/v1434998209/iykxhwrmiahqkrpvbzg5.jpg)
Take note of this when trying to setup with this kind of switcher.
to be continued...
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects, now with TL; DR!
Post by: lolwat on October 31, 2013, 06:32:25 PM
Here is a sample of the amp input method on YouTube:
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on September 13, 2014, 11:42:00 AM
Upping for comment request:
Multi-effects people, do you have anything else you'd like to know regarding setting up your units? Any suggestions for the posts I've made in the thread so far?
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: titser_marco on September 14, 2014, 09:53:56 AM
Finally, someone explaining using modelers properly! I know that, say, PODs have an option to plug into the front end of amp, but most people don't realize that modelers --- esp when amp models are turned on --- are essentially meant to replace the preamp section of an amp. Great job outlining this, man.
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Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on September 14, 2014, 07:31:44 PM
Thanks titser_marco :-) anything in particular you'd like to ask about the process? or a particular setup scheme for "profiling" tones?
I think I can also talk about profiling actual amplifier preamps provided they have effects loops to allow other routing schemes.
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: titser_marco on September 14, 2014, 09:22:32 PM
Wala naman; I pretty much have a handle on these things anyway, but you explained it in a way much better than I could ever have.
It's good practice to do this sort of preparation before any show, but given the situation where one doesn't know what amp is available, there's always the risk of a curveball, which is where I think modelers/multieffects with real knobs have an edge since you can tweak minutes before a show.
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Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: zraw79 on October 12, 2014, 06:56:49 PM
Hi sir/s..
I am a newbie in this kind of setup, and i am in the process of getting back my mojo in guitar playing.. I have a multieffect pedal and analog pedals for mu dirt and i want to set it up in a way that i am going to use my multi for all the modulation effects and all the dirt (od and dist) will be coming frm the analog pedals.. I just cant seem to figure out how i am going to connect everything in my board..what i mean is i have not experimented yet.. Is it alright if i post questions here after i read through the articles posted in this thread? Thanks
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on October 12, 2014, 11:38:10 PM
sure thing! :-)
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: zraw79 on October 19, 2014, 10:24:56 AM
hi sir/s,
Please help me out with this.. current setup I have
Analog Tuner Wah Boss Compression/Sustainer (CS3) Boss Super Overdrive Hardwire Tube Overdrive Joyo US Dream Distortion MV Shredhead Boston Equalizer Mooer Noise Killer
MultiEffects Digitech RP360xp
AMP Fender Mustang
What I intend to do is use my analog pedals for my dirt sounds and blend them with the modulation effects coming from the RP360xp. I prepared some patches in my RP360xp wherein the dirt and amp sims are not included. Purely either chorus, flange, trem,phaser delay and reverb lang or a mix of it...
1. what kind of switcher should you recommend that I get? Should I get a Boss LS2 for the A+B Mix feature (or can the LS2 handle what I am thinking) or 2. is it better for me to have a switcher customized? 3. Also, may I know what would be the possible disadvantages of the set up? 4. What other factors should I take note and consider? what types of patch cables, etc etc..
I just want to have the versatility of using my analog pedals with some mix of mods from the multifx or switch to using my multifx only on my pedalboard for some instances. I am a bit confused on what AB or A+B or ABY box or switch should I be using.
Will appreciate your help sir/s.
Thanks!
Newbie
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on October 19, 2014, 08:28:27 PM
Can you tell me more about how you intend to use the setup?
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: zraw79 on October 19, 2014, 09:09:10 PM
I intend to use the analogs along with the multifx... the multifx will be the primary source of my modulation effects...like delays and reverbs... I am thinking along the lines of using an A+B switch or whatever switch ill need to be able to set up an A loop (ods and dirt) then B loop (modulation which will come from the RP360). Then blend some of my created modulation presets from the multifx with my analog ods and dist peds. Kasi hindi ko gagamitin yung dirt and amp sims ng multifx unit. Dun ko kukunin yun sa analog.
Hybrid setup sana ang plan ko if this is a possible or viable option. Guitar then effects from my board then straight into 1 amp.
I play almost all genres of music except heavy or death metal. My band plays at some minor gigs sa office and friend parties. I records some stuff at home. Di naman ako professional sir. Hobbyist lang din. But I wanted to get much out of the current effects and pedals I have bought recently.
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on October 19, 2014, 11:24:59 PM
Digitech RP series effects have very transparent bypass modes in my experience. You can opt to simply use the (AFAIK analog) tuner bypass to "kill" the Digitech effects, or take advantage of the stompbox mode on the unit which allows you to use the switches as straightforward on/off buttons per effect. IMO you don't need a separate switcher unless you're going to actually need an A+B mode, or a means to very quickly switch between effects chains with a button press. For example, in my case I need an A/B switcher because I run two pedals exclusively for a clean sound (compressor & chorus), and up to two pedals for a dirty sound (distortion + od/boost). Without the A/B switcher, I need to step on four switches one after the other just to change my sound.
BTW, I don't think you'll need so many of those distortion and overdrive boxes at once unless you're going for a sound that does require that many gain pedals.
Finally, if you're going to chain up your effects, the order is usually like this:
Guitar -> Tuner -> Wah -> Compressor -> Overdrive/Distortion (up to you which one plugs into the other) -> Noise gate -> modulation, delay, reverb
Which means your RP360XP ends up at the very end of your chain. Good luck with tone hunting!
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on October 19, 2014, 11:27:14 PM
Oh, and don't overlook the capabilities of the RP360's amp sims either if you're going to do recording! I have an RP500 which allowed me to record stuff like this before: https://soundcloud.com/jolo-carrera/rp500-more-or-less-full-demo
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: zraw79 on October 20, 2014, 12:32:28 AM
thank you sir..that was very informative and helpful.. you are correct, the RP360 has a stombox mode which is a very useful feature...and I think I should capitalize on that...
I think I would indeed need some sort of A+B switcher since I intend to switch from one chain to another. Maybe i'll have something customized na lang from our local MTO peeps here at PhilMusic...and i'll see what happens next..hehe...
And you are correct sir, I am not running those ODs and Dist all at once, those are just the remaining analog pedals I retained coz I liked the sound of it.. I accumulated a few dirt pedals which I already disposed.. I settled na lang with 2 ODs and 2 Dist and the rest ok na rin...
I really appreciate your inputs sir... wish you all the best.. =)
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on October 20, 2014, 05:53:44 AM
Oh, wait, so you want to use the dirts by themselves, and then have the ability to switch to the RP360XP for clean sounds only?
If so, then you do need an A/B box. However, if you want an A+B option which runs one chain into the other, you might need a custom one since most of the commercial switches I see are parallel A & B, a.k.a. Y routing (A and B receive the same dry signal from the input and runs side-by-side.).
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: zraw79 on October 20, 2014, 08:35:02 AM
I'll mix my analog dirt with delays and reverbs of the RP360 sir.. So mukhang need ko ng A+B box.. But if i want to go clean using ung reverb multi and off mga Dirt pedals.. Would the A+B box work too?
Title: Re: My A/B/X/Y method for setting up multi effects - Sample video on page 2!
Post by: lolwat on October 20, 2014, 12:41:34 PM
Sounds like you need a 2-channel true bypass switcher instead of an A/B switch bro. you run the analog pedals in the first loop, then the RP in the second. If you want to "kill" all of the dirt pedals at the same time, you can just stomp on one switch to take them out of your signal chain without affecting the RP360. Likewise, if you want to take the RP out of the signal chain, you just stomp on its respective switch to turn it off. With both off you get the dry sound of your guitar, and with both on, the dirt pedals run into the modulation and time effects of the RP.