Post by: Agent_So on November 25, 2006, 10:48:12 AM
ill post some pics later.. marami pa ako tanung like how to soundproof yung main door sa studio.. pakita ko rin pics later...
i hope this thread will help many musikero's!
Post by: Direk on November 27, 2006, 03:02:36 AM
gumawa ako 6 panel basstraps sa ceiling sa studio, ginamit ko yung design ni ethan winner... now my question is, how to test it effectivity??
Agent So,
Yan din sana yung itatanong ko sayo eh. According to you, its a bass trap. Now my question is, anong offending bass frequency (or room resonance modes) ba reflected from the ceiling(???) ang kinonsider mong ma treat? Have you consider calculating your room's resonant mode before? Dito mo malalaman yung behavior ng resonance modes after ma-excites ng sound yung room mo which cause frequency-response peaks and dips and this affects the frequency modes up to 300Hz, beyond this, it tends to become so dense that it dont cause problems. This explain why we always concentrate more on treating the bass problem in a room.
To test your room behavior(kung nagawa mo sana muna to before then thru comparison, malalaman mo kung effective nga ang bass trap project mo), you need a Test CD with diagnostic tracks like covering Bass Decade with 1/3-octave warble tones at -20dbFS ( 20Hz, 25Hz, 31.5Hz, 40Hz, 50Hz, 63Hz, 80Hz, 100Hz, 125Hz, 160Hz and 200Hz respectively). Also, a sound level meter (Radio Shack, Cat.#. 33-2055...hint:cheap) will help you to plot your rooms resonance modes. For hi tech approach, a spectrum analyzer with calibrated mic's will do but at a cost . Hope this helps.
Post by: toink on November 27, 2006, 11:40:03 AM
Post by: Blueberri on November 27, 2006, 03:44:12 PM
same question as above, how much does a concrete wall take off the sound?? would a loudly played drum set still be annoying on the other side?? (lets take that there's no bleed off the ceiling).
and would a nice big couch work as a bass trap??Also, where would be the best placement??(in a mixing room)
or how do i find out where?? can I go around the room and listen to where bass is the loudest??
thanks!
Post by: skunkyfunk on November 27, 2006, 03:53:10 PM
Just as a simple check, try playing a really good bass guitar through a great sounding bass amp. Then find out what notes in the bass guitar seem to shake the walls - that woukld give you an idea what resonant frequencies have to be corrected.
Post by: mikep on November 27, 2006, 06:35:33 PM
To soundproof a room, a 6 inch CHB will give you an STC of about 43. You paint the pores, it become 45. If you sound is about 100 dB, you still have to contend with something like 55 dB, which is still a lot of sound. If you are talking of a practice room for drums, it may not affect your neighbors anymore as long as you do not practice during late evenings. For recording, noises from the outside can still affect your recording especially during soft passages. You have to remember that you have to control sound coming out and coming in to the studio or room.
How do you treat your roof? Put glass fiber insulation under the GI sheets, about 50 mm, held by GI wire. Then, allow an air gap. Then install at least 2 pieces of 12mm gypsum board on ceiling sleepers. Put about 100 mm of glass fiber batt, the one that is rolled, 16 or 38 kgm, whatever you can afford, on top (inside) of the gypsum ceiling. Caulk all joints and possible areas where sound can seep through with silicon caulk or better yet, any non-hardening caulking material. After which you deal with the acoustics of the room. Put heavt drapes on 2 sides of the room from top of wall to floor. Put them so that the drapes are about 3 to 4 inches away from the wall. For the ceiling, install acoustical tile. For the floor, ordinary wood or T & G wood flooring.
So, there. A less expensive way of soundproofing and taming your room acoustics. As to the modes, that's another story. You have to go through room ratios and if there are still problems, specific traps using resonators like Helmholtz ones to tame resonating frequencies.
Where to put traps? At the back where the waves develop into their full potential. Also, the areas where the side walls meet the back wall. Bass tends to deveop in those areas. In the ceiling? Normally you put mid frequency absorbers there.
How big must the trap be? Definitely if you talking about low frequencies, you need more space to trap it. The trap should have at least a depth of 12 inches (.30 mtrs.).
Direk is right. You just do not put bass traps if there are not offending frequencies in the room. You might be over doing it and destroy the sound of your room.
FWIW
Post by: Direk on November 28, 2006, 04:24:58 AM
As to the modes, that's another story. You have to go through room ratios
Let's consider first what happens along the length of a room when the air inside is excited by sound from the loudspeakers. A room's resonant frequencies are determined by the distance between the room's wall. The farthest apart the walls are, the lower the resonant frequency. Specifically, the lowest resonant frequency called the fundamental resonance, occurs within the room's length equals the half wavelength of sound. Put another way, a resonant mode will occur when the sound's wavelength is twice the length of the room. Other resonant modes occur at twice this frequency, three times this frequency, and so on. Whenever the length of the room is a multiple of half of the sound wavelength, a resonant mode will occur.
Here's an example and how to determine your room resonant modes based on your room's length, width, and height. The formula is F1 = 1130/2L. F1 is the first resonant mode, 1130 is the speed of sound in air (in feet per second), and 2L is two times the room's length (in feet). If the room is 21' long, its first resonant mode (F1) will be 27Hz (1130/2 x 21).
We know that the next mode will occur when the wavelength equals the room's length, at 54Hz (2 x F1), then again at the next multiple of half a wavelength ( 1- 1/2 wavelengths) at 81Hz (3 x F1), again at 108Hz (4 x F1), and so forth. Again, it is only necessary to consider room modes up to 300Hz.
The room's height and width will also create their own resonant modes. If we have an 8' ceiling, the resonant modes will occur at 71Hz (1130/2x8), 141Hz , 212Hz, and so on. If the width is 13', the resonant modes modes will be at 43Hz (1130/ 2 x 13), 87Hz, 130Hz, 174Hz, 217Hz, 261Hz, etc. We end up with a chart that look like this:
Mode Length Width Height
21' 8' 13'
F1 27Hz 71Hz 43Hz
F2 54Hz 141Hz 87Hz
F3 81Hz 212Hz 130Hz
F4 108Hz 282Hz 174Hz
F5 135Hz 353Hz 217Hz
F6 162Hz 260Hz
F7 189Hz 304Hz
F8 216Hz
F9 243Hz
F10 270Hz
F11 297Hz
F12 324Hz
Interpreting the resonance modes; Let's say for room distance, L24', W16', H8'; Length mode (F3) at 72Hz, coincides with the second mode width (F2) 70Hz and the first height mode (F1) 71Hz, these combine modes, will pile-up creating a huge peak in the response at this frequency. This undesirable situation occurs because the room's length, width, and height are multiples of each other. Expect a thick, peaky, and very colored bass reproduction.
We can minimize the frequency-response peaks and dips caused by room resonance modes by choosing a room ( this isn't always possible unless you build a room from scratch, or convert a garage or basement into a listening/monitoring/studio room) with dimensional ratios that more evenly spread the resonant modes over the low-frequency band. This gives you a head start in getting great sound from your system.
Goodluck!
Post by: mikep on November 28, 2006, 07:28:27 PM
FWIW
Post by: toink on November 28, 2006, 08:22:03 PM
How do you treat your roof? Put glass fiber insulation under the GI sheets, about 50 mm, held by GI wire. Then, allow an air gap. Then install at least 2 pieces of 12mm gypsum board on ceiling sleepers. Put about 100 mm of glass fiber batt, the one that is rolled, 16 or 38 kgm, whatever you can afford, on top (inside) of the gypsum ceiling. Caulk all joints and possible areas where sound can seep through with silicon caulk or better yet, any non-hardening caulking material. After which you deal with the acoustics of the room. Put heavt drapes on 2 sides of the room from top of wall to floor. Put them so that the drapes are about 3 to 4 inches away from the wall. For the ceiling, install acoustical tile. For the floor, ordinary wood or T & G wood flooring.
sori po sir medyo hindi ko naintindihan hehe. saan po b ako makakabili ng mga ganyang gamit? my room is 9 1/2 x 16 1/2 feet. mga magkano kaya gagastusin sa soundproofing nung roof
Post by: Direk on November 28, 2006, 09:00:26 PM
Korek, Direk (it rhymes, too). The terms are axial, tangential and oblique modes.
FWIW
By the way, this explanation of room resonance modes and the examples given are greatly simplified. I've just covered what are called axial mode--those that exist between one pair of surfaces. Other modes resulting from the two surfaces pairs (tangential modes) and three surfaces pairs (oblique modes, from all six walls of a room) aren't discussed.
Post by: TheHunter on November 28, 2006, 10:03:23 PM
Post by: Direk on November 29, 2006, 01:29:09 AM
are there any acoustic simulation software available?
Lots. Like this one- http://www.cara.de/ENU/index.php?load=cara-raumakustik-simulation.html
Post by: mikep on November 29, 2006, 01:42:13 AM
FWIW
Post by: Agent_So on December 26, 2006, 01:02:55 PM
regarding dun sa mga ginawa kong basstrap, as i can see it has big effect sa low frequency dampening pero di ko pa talaga matest gaano siya ka effective..
anyways, eto lang pansin ko sa room ngayon, sa key of "A" ngba-vibrate yung mga glass windows.. anu kaya ibig sabihin nun?
btw, yung room is not yet fully acoustic, kulang pa sa buget eh.. pero yung initial na mga nilagay kong sound absorbers, does the job well...
anyways, i hope you can help me in soundproofing my door... kaya naiisip ko na styro kasi mas solid siya sa foam... what do you think guys?
Post by: mikep on December 27, 2006, 01:13:34 AM
mga sir, anu bang magandang pang soundproof sa pinto?? im thinking of using 4inch thick styro... would that do the job?
regarding dun sa mga ginawa kong basstrap, as i can see it has big effect sa low frequency dampening pero di ko pa talaga matest gaano siya ka effective..
anyways, eto lang pansin ko sa room ngayon, sa key of "A" ngba-vibrate yung mga glass windows.. anu kaya ibig sabihin nun?
btw, yung room is not yet fully acoustic, kulang pa sa buget eh.. pero yung initial na mga nilagay kong sound absorbers, does the job well...
anyways, i hope you can help me in soundproofing my door... kaya naiisip ko na styro kasi mas solid siya sa foam... what do you think guys?
Styro is not a good sound stopper. It can probably absorb sound, but for doors, you need mass. You can do a sandwiched type door, with different facing thicknesses. Then, you have to put a lot of rubber stripping around the door and jamb. The door is a weak link, and it surely is a source of sound seeping through another room. The technique is to build a sound lock.
Regarding your glass vibrating, that means your glass window is resonating at that frequency. First, you have to put silicon caulking around the edges of the glass to secure it well. Second, you have to make sure the measurement and thickness of the glass will not vibrate and resonate at that frequency. It's either you make the glass thicker or make the size smaller.
Acoustics is not an easy thing. You need understanding of basic physics - the characterics of sound, etc. You can experiment but you also have to study by reading books and other acoustic articles or materials. If you do not know what you're doing, you'll be wasting lots of money.
Good luck.
FWIW
Post by: KitC on December 27, 2006, 02:10:08 AM
I've read of quarter-inch thick clear vinyl being used as dampers for glass windows. You don't even have to cover the entire pane, about 1/5 to 1/4 is enough and the inherent 'stickyness' of vinyl is enough for it to stick to glass. Question is... where does one get clear vinyl of sufficient thickness here?
Post by: mikep on December 27, 2006, 02:31:06 AM
A better alternative is tempered glass. The physical construction of tempered glass permits it from stopping the conductance of sound energy. A 3/8" tempered plate glass doubled by a 1/2"tempered glass also on the other side can give you very good STC numbers. In my case, I use differing plate glasses, not necessarily tempered ones (again, expensive), but make use of a big air gap in between, and making sure that the walls are totally isolated from one another. How to do that is another story.
FWIW
Post by: mikep on December 27, 2006, 02:32:40 AM
Question is... where does one get clear vinyl of sufficient thickness here?
Not available here (anymore). You have to import it.
FWIW
Post by: Blueberri on December 28, 2006, 11:09:43 PM
Does hardiflex have better soundproofing properties than ordinary plywood?? so would it be better to use them making doors and for ceilings??
thanks!
Post by: mikep on December 29, 2006, 02:11:09 AM
For doors, you are better off using wood, plywood designed in a "sandwiched" manner. The other alternative would be steel with honeycomb inserts and isolation. As to how to do that is a little complicated. That is the reason why they sell acoustically rated doors commercially and they are expensive.
So, what do you do? First, do you really need an acoustically rated door? The way to do it, as I mentioned earlier, is to have a soundlock.
As I mentioned previously, acoustics is no easy task. You're talking here of just isolation. How about the response of your room? That's where things become complicated. Remember Direk's posts on room modes and other things? Those are just a portion of it.
FWIW
Post by: Agent_So on January 08, 2007, 03:00:05 AM
another thing, yung gypsum board ba pwede ka mag pa customize ng size, kasing size ng door? and how do you install it?? thanks again mga sir...
Post by: mikep on January 08, 2007, 10:59:25 PM
Search the net for door designs. You can get ideas from them.
FWIW
Post by: Agent_So on January 08, 2007, 11:37:24 PM
Post by: mikep on January 09, 2007, 10:40:41 PM
Post by: BAMF on January 09, 2007, 11:03:28 PM
I think I have to buy a rather large fire extinguisher.
Post by: mikep on January 09, 2007, 11:33:47 PM
I think I have to buy a rather large fire extinguisher.
Kidding aside, YES, you should. You are in a pretty "flammable" place. Just make sure nobody smokes, lights a candle or play firecrackers or fireworks. Also, watch out on your electricals - lights, conduiting, wires. Just be on the look out.
FWIW
Post by: BAMF on January 10, 2007, 12:14:01 AM
But it costs an arm and a leg. Oh well.
Post by: in_the_tent on January 10, 2007, 12:21:38 AM
Post by: Agent_So on January 10, 2007, 12:26:56 AM
Post by: BAMF on January 10, 2007, 12:41:12 AM
Post by: Agent_So on January 10, 2007, 12:49:22 AM
Post by: in_the_tent on January 10, 2007, 01:06:13 AM
Post by: xjepoyx on January 10, 2007, 01:21:59 AM
Post by: in_the_tent on January 10, 2007, 01:25:22 AM
Post by: xjepoyx on January 10, 2007, 01:33:27 AM
kasi usually concrete na walls diba? so ang ibig mo rin bang sabihin panibagong concrete walls ulit right?
i mean kung concrete na yung walls nung apartment hehehe. may mga practice studios kasi na yung walls ng may door nila eh wood pa rin.
Post by: mikep on January 10, 2007, 01:49:39 AM
... and mounting hardware alone cost P15,000 .
Mura yan. I was thinking more like PhP 150,000.00. I use apat hangang limang patong ng gypsum for walls, plus, double metal studs, glass fiber inside, grounding, etc. If you wanna do it right, that's the way to do it.
Hollow blocks on floating floor? That's too heavy. You have to have a slab floor to support that, plus heavy duty floor acoustic isolators. Millions! No joke. Unless necessary, forget room within a room isolation technique. Unless you know how to do it. Very expensive and very complicated to undertake.
FWIW
Post by: in_the_tent on January 10, 2007, 12:56:45 PM
Post by: skunkyfunk on January 10, 2007, 01:34:06 PM
sorry for my ignorance.. pero di ba pwedeng magtayo ng isa pang pader na nakadikit sa existing pader. wala talaga akong alam sa construction eh. ano po yung floating at yung slab?
Dude, to make a long story short, you need metal studs and metal tracks like these (which measure 2.4m or 3m long):
(http://phillipsmfg.com/images/prod/mcif/drywall/STUDS.jpg)
(http://phillipsmfg.com/images/prod/mcif/drywall/TRACKS.jpg)
Then, you need your insulating material (ie rockwool or fiberglass). I prefer 60kg density 50mm rockwool slabs that come in 0.6mx1.2m sizes.
You also need gypsum board. They come in 1/2" and 3/16" but I prefer the 1/2" slabs. They are sized at 1.2mx2.4m. Doubling or tripling the boards works much better.
For your tools, you need a putty knife, power drill, a riveter, and also, you need some gypsum plaster tape, rivets, gypsum putty and gypsum screws (they look like wood screws, only black in color).
To make a long story short, you need cut and rivet the metal tracks and studs to make metal frames sized at 0.6x1.2m. You have to mount the frames to the celing and floor against the concrete wall) where you shall stuff your insulating material in. The gypsum boards are stuck to the metal studs using a drill and the gypsum screws. Some say it would be best to put some foam tape on the studs where the screws shall be drilled.
The concrete wall will be the innermost layer, the rockwool/fiberglass as the middle layer, and the gypsum board as the outermost layer. Sa madaling salita, GYPSUM/ROCKWOOL/CONCRETE WALL sandwich.
Post by: mikep on January 10, 2007, 07:43:45 PM
BTW, I would normally put a Farraday cage, grounded, to keep RF from getting inside the room. Yes, it has happened lots of times when everything is well insulated, then RF, especially with unbalanced connectors. A cage is a nice solution aside from using everything balanced including your power.
FWIW
Post by: KitC on January 11, 2007, 01:35:52 AM
Post by: mikep on January 12, 2007, 12:10:05 AM
What do you use for the Faraday, Mike? Steel mesh?
Metal mesh with copper strap or thick wire placed on top and under all over the entire cage. Then, sent to ground.
FWIW
Post by: Agent_So on January 12, 2007, 12:16:21 AM
Post by: rocketboy on January 12, 2007, 12:16:41 AM
http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
Post by: KitC on January 12, 2007, 12:54:20 AM
sir anu po yung RF? and anu po yung cage na sinasabi nyo? hehehe. sorry di ko po maintindihan.. can you post pics?
Terms you will commonly see:
RF - Radio Frequency
RFI - Radio Frequency Interference
EMI - ElectroMagnetic Interference
Faraday Cage - a metal shield encasing an object or room to prevent RF or EM intrusion. Most common indication of RF intrusion is when you hear radio station signals from your gear especially if you're situated near a transmitter.
Post by: Agent_So on January 12, 2007, 01:00:03 AM
Post by: KitC on January 12, 2007, 09:54:05 AM
hmmm.. i seee. thanks sir.. nangyayari pala yun.. btw, sa mga anung gears usually nakakasagap ng ganung signals?? speakers? amps? or wireless mics? how is this possible?
Practically anything metallic given the right conditions. Ever heard about the tooth filling that could receive radio signals? Dentists used to use amalgam, a metallic filler for cavities before ceramic and resin-based fillers became the norm (something about mercury in the amalgam led to its discontinuation). Anyway, some guy complained about hearing music in his head and what they found was that his amalgam filling was acting as a radio receiver! Look up cat's whisker diodes and you'll know what I mean.
The same diode principle sometimes happens with audio gear. In my case, it was crud developing on one of my 1/4" cables. When I plugged it into my synth, I could hear faint radio transmissions from a nearby FM station - I was wearing headphones at the time. The oxidation on the 1/4" jack acted as a diode.
Anything that has coils of wire in it can also generate RFI and EMI, transformers and flourescent ballasts, for example. Try putting a single coil pickup near those and listen to glorious 60 hz hum coming from your amp.
Post by: mikep on January 13, 2007, 04:12:11 AM
FWIW
Post by: Thechief on January 17, 2007, 10:52:41 PM
Post by: Agent_So on January 17, 2007, 10:58:57 PM
Post by: Thechief on January 27, 2007, 04:29:27 PM
tapos yung isang side ng wall (yung front view mula sa labas) ay glass.. as far as i have been reading sa mga articles, mababa ang stc rating ng glass compared sa 8 inches na concrete.. how do i treat it?.... thanks thanks thanks
Post by: skunkyfunk on January 28, 2007, 01:34:24 AM
mga master, dami na ako nabasa tungkol sa pag soundproof ng walls..how about flooring... im about to rent a commercial space for my planned band rehearsal studio.. it will be on a second floor.. 1 foot yata ang kapal ng concrete nung flooring nun.. same principle din siguro ang pagsoundproof ng floor and wall,, pero sa materials same din po ba?(e.g. gypsum board, ok lang ba kung yan ang gagamitin or may mas appropriate na alternative)..
tapos yung isang side ng wall (yung front view mula sa labas) ay glass.. as far as i have been reading sa mga articles, mababa ang stc rating ng glass compared sa 8 inches na concrete.. how do i treat it?.... thanks thanks thanks
For the floor, try puzzle mats and/or 1- 2 layers of 3/8" rebonded foam (like the ones you see under carpets for cars) then carpet.
Post by: in_the_tent on July 04, 2007, 11:47:15 PM
Post by: in_the_tent on July 05, 2007, 11:17:50 AM
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,6645.0.html
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,8387.15.html start with Reply #18
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,17620.15.html
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,25949.0.html
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,27596.0.html
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,28284.0.html
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,30513.0.html
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,54650.0.html
Post by: xjepoyx on July 05, 2007, 01:59:00 PM
Post by: in_the_tent on July 05, 2007, 02:05:59 PM
Post by: xjepoyx on July 05, 2007, 02:08:40 PM
:D
Post by: in_the_tent on July 05, 2007, 02:38:06 PM
Post by: Neverexisted on October 11, 2007, 02:53:34 PM
Eto STRAIGHT TO THE POINT kong magiging basic setup.
-Ang pader at bubong ko ay gagawin kong solid hollowblocks. As in parang Bakod sa solid.
-Ang hindi lang hollowblocks made sa akin ay ang Pinto ko.
Question:
-Ang opposite side kasi nung Hollowblocks na yun ay apartment, Hindi na ba makakarating sa kanila yung ingay sa loob ng studio ko? Yung Vibrations?
-Ano pa ang kelangan ko idikit sa walls ko at ceiling tutal made from solid hollowblocks naman ang lahat ng sides?
-Dapat ba ang drumset, at mga amps ay hindi nakapatong sa ground mismo?
Eto nga pala yung pic ng garden namin na balak kong gawin music studio.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13394803@N07/sets/72157602235592771/detail/
Reply naman kayo ha. Thanks!
Medyo related rin ito sa settup ng music studio, pwede rin nyo dun ipost ang reply nyo sa thread kong ito
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,57640.0.html
Post by: axebass26 on November 19, 2007, 10:05:14 PM
mga magkano ba aabutin pag mag puput up ako ng rehearsal studio? yung rent variable naman eh... yung sa soundproofing and equipment lang tanong ko...
Post by: LouieAzcona on November 24, 2007, 03:32:27 PM
may rehearsal studio po kami. tapos sa taas nun may kwarto.
makapal na kahoy lang ang pagitan so, pag nandon ako, rinig na rinig ko parin ang lahat.
ung sandwiched na walls, pwede din po ba maaplly sa ceiling un?
ung gagawan ko ng bagong frame ung celing para kabitan ko ng mga harrdiflex. pwede na po ba un?
Post by: LouieAzcona on November 24, 2007, 03:41:42 PM
dati covered po ng carpet ung sahig, eh sobrang hirap po linisin ng carpet eh, so pinalitan ko ng vynil tiles.
napansin ko lang, medyo lumakas ugong ng kick. kaya lang, lagi kasi namin ginagalaw settings ng kick drums. laging iniiba ung tono, lagin napapalitan ung foam. so hindi ko masabi kung ung vynil tiles ba ang salarin.
what can you say? ano po ba effect kapag ganon?
Post by: s2ry0fdyr on December 06, 2007, 12:43:12 AM
Post by: mikep on December 06, 2007, 11:44:55 PM
FWIW
Post by: leachim on December 11, 2007, 07:30:55 PM
Glasswool - http://www.tlimpex.com/glasswoolRefractory.html
http://www.tlimpex.com/WallpanelfiberglassFabric.html
Rock Woll - http://www.tlimpex.com/WallpanelRockWool.html
Fasteners:
http://www.tlimpex.com/InsulationFastenerINDEX.html
Philippine Office: #712 Cityland Pasong Tamo Cond. Estacion St. PDP. Makati City, Philippines Tel: 632-8874461 or 63-9159920233
Mga sir.. check nyo naman kung pwede namin gamitin tong mga to para sa Sound Proofing Needs namin.. :) THANK YOU
Post by: leachim on December 11, 2007, 08:56:16 PM
CSR Glasswool Insulation, CSR Fibertex Rockwool, CSR Thermofoil, CSR PGH Clay Bricks Payers, CSR Gyprock Gypsum Board, CSR Fibercement Boards, CSR Bradflex, Speediflex
COMPANY NAME
CSR Building Materials (Philippines) Limited
ADDRESS
702, 7/F Page I Building
1215 Acacia Avenue
Madrigal Business Park, Ayala Alabang
1780 Muntinlupa, Philippines
TELEPHONE
7710651; 7710650
FAX
7710649
Post by: leachim on December 12, 2007, 06:27:57 PM
Meron pala silang branch sa Marikina mas malapit sa amin..
P250/Slab (.6m x 1.2m) .. GANDA GANDA :)
Ito nga pala WEbsite nila http://www.csr-in-asia.com/product.html
Post by: KitC on December 12, 2007, 07:59:33 PM
Post by: micr0chimp on December 20, 2007, 08:45:33 AM
Post by: LouieAzcona on December 20, 2007, 09:03:16 AM
Concrete Wall (typical hollow blocks and cement)
+
6 inches space
+
Another Concrete wall
+
Curtains on the surface- as thick as those seen in stage plays. compressed to form waves.
Post by: mikep on December 20, 2007, 04:45:57 PM
for the walls of a recording studio, what do you think about this setup:
Concrete Wall (typical hollow blocks and cement)
+
6 inches space
+
Another Concrete wall
+
Curtains on the surface- as thick as those seen in stage plays. compressed to form waves.
Over constructed. You do not have room anymore for the studio proper. If anything, one CHB wall plastered with 1/2" to 1" cement will do the job. Make sure all possible areas where sound can seep through are covered or sealed.
Thick curtains are okay on 2 sides of the room. Leave the two other walls open - cement walls. Put area rugs on the cement floor.
If this was a practice room, it will be okay. If a recording studio, you need a more sophisticated design. It is expensive to just experiment. Good luck.
FWIW
Post by: LouieAzcona on December 21, 2007, 11:43:16 AM
pero teka lang po... what is a CHB wall?
Post by: stilljey on December 21, 2007, 10:51:58 PM
pero teka lang po... what is a CHB wall?
Concrete Hollow Block
Post by: LouieAzcona on December 26, 2007, 09:51:15 AM
so double walling a recording studio is not necessary?
Post by: bandztudio on December 26, 2007, 11:59:41 AM
Bandztudio
Auditions
341 Katipunan Ave., Loyola Heights, Quezon City
www.auditonstudio.multiply.com (http://www.auditonstudio.multiply.com)
Post by: randolf_angelo on December 26, 2007, 07:09:56 PM
Nakabili na ako ng CSR ROCKWOOL :)where exactly is this in Marikina? thanks! :-)
Meron pala silang branch sa Marikina mas malapit sa amin..
P250/Slab (.6m x 1.2m) .. GANDA GANDA :)
Ito nga pala WEbsite nila http://www.csr-in-asia.com/product.html
Post by: KitC on December 26, 2007, 07:17:45 PM
so double walling a recording studio is not necessary?
It depends. 2 concrete walls is way too overkill, but a room-within-a-room concept depends on how much sound isolation you want to achieve. For example, if your studio is located near a busy roadway, you will want as much isolation to shield you from rumble and other noises coming from outside. Another case is if you are in a commercial apartment and the neighbors are complaining of sound leaching into their unit.
Post by: mikep on December 26, 2007, 08:54:02 PM
so double walling a recording studio is not necessary?
Double walling the recording studio side is the cheaper alternative. The control room side can have a higher noise criteria rating, thus, you may not do double walling. If you have CHB walls, as long as they are plastered and painted, they will give you a respectable isolation. But for the studio side, where you record your vocals, instruments, etc., additional walling is always necessary especially for low frequency control. A room within a room concept is the best design for a studio.
FWIW
Post by: LouieAzcona on December 26, 2007, 09:45:07 PM
things are clearer now.
so if two CHB wall is an overkill, how should i double wall?
how about this:
CHB wall(outer layer)
+
6-inch space
+
1-inch thick plywood(inner)
thats just for the recording side of the room.
i now understand that double walling the control room is not necessary
Post by: KitC on December 26, 2007, 11:00:07 PM
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
Go to Construction and Studio Plans sections to get some ideas.
Post by: LouieAzcona on December 27, 2007, 08:39:13 AM
Post by: leachim on January 18, 2008, 05:04:11 AM
Wall (wood) + 4-6 inch space + Gypsum 1/2 + Rockwool 50 + 2 inch space + Gypsum 1/2..
ayus lang ba to.
Tsaka pwede bang gawing Bass Trap ang Rockwool 60?
Post by: LouieAzcona on January 18, 2008, 08:28:38 PM
Post by: mikep on January 19, 2008, 02:43:52 AM
Setup ko is:
Wall (wood) + 4-6 inch space + Gypsum 1/2 + Rockwool 50 + 2 inch space + Gypsum 1/2..
ayus lang ba to.
Tsaka pwede bang gawing Bass Trap ang Rockwool 60?
Dapat Wall (wood) + 4 - 6 inch air space + Roxkwool 50 + 1/2 Gypsum+1/2 gypsum.
Rockwool is just one of th components in making a bass trap. Effectivity of the low frequency absorption depends on how thick your rockwool is, or the depth of your bass trap, where you use the rockwool to aborb soundwaves inside the trap. Look into site where bass traps are discussed. The bigger the cavity, the lower the frequency it will absorb.
FWIW
Post by: Ralphmuscn on January 28, 2008, 10:31:27 AM
Post by: immanbegins on February 29, 2008, 09:13:43 PM
1. how do i soundproof the walls, what materials do i use..
2. how do i soundproof the ceiling..
3. “ “ “ “ “ door...
4. “ “ “ “ window between control room and live room
and were do i buy this materials because there are no soundproofing materials here in calbayog.. can u give me contact number of the suppliers.. were can i get it cheap...
Post by: xboughtbybloodx on March 02, 2008, 01:01:04 PM
ako naman 7 peace of rockwool, for sound absorbers, pati fiberglass for bass traps, and kahoy, nasa more than 10k na! hindi na ako ng palabor. ako nalang lahat gumawa.. kala ko dati aabutin lang ako ng 8k. pero grabe....sir lahat po nyan for 10k lng?kc nung nagtingin ako ng mineral wool plang sa ortigas abot na ng 20k?where did you get your rockwool?please reply im desperately looking for cheaper rockwool/mineral wool cos i will be starting to soundproof my studio very soon.anyone who can help please do...thanks mga sirs!!!
Post by: xboughtbybloodx on March 02, 2008, 01:03:06 PM
Post by: luin_theblue on March 04, 2008, 09:56:55 AM
...is this a good setup? They say recording drums and guitars are good this way with the back of the amps and drums facing the brickwall. What about vocals?
Post by: mikep on March 04, 2008, 01:41:45 PM
FWIW
Post by: luin_theblue on March 04, 2008, 01:47:05 PM
Doing a room to sound good is not just a matter of putting surface materials here and there. You have to compute for the correct RT60, NCs and wall STCs. That's a lot of math. You want your room to sound good, study acoustics, how sound behaves and other elements in recording. The net has a lot of info on that. A lot of books about studio design are also available for the taking. Do not just guess. It will cost you a lot of money.
FWIW
I'm not making fun or guesswork for the sake of it, bro. Neither am I good at this so yeah, I'll take the tip. But then again, there are tricks that hit the jackpot by accident, right? Guys like Bon Jovi recording vocals in his kitchen counter, and they found that it sounded good by accident.
Peace out.
Post by: mikep on March 04, 2008, 01:52:05 PM
FWIW
Post by: martian0413 on March 05, 2008, 03:29:27 PM
salamat at mabuhay!!!!
Post by: in_the_tent on March 07, 2008, 06:11:02 PM
Post by: SAITOHAJIME on March 11, 2008, 11:14:00 PM
Iniisip ko kung pwede ito.
12mm gypsum board with 2" thick rockwool fiber 60kg as a filler for the walls.
regular carpeting for the floor. And acoustic boards for the ceilings.
Rough estimate ko dito eh mga 40,000 ang lahat including the labor. Which is a bit out of my budget. Meron ba kayong naiisip na alternative? Or baka meron kayong kilalalang murang supplier?
Post by: LouieAzcona on March 16, 2008, 05:21:32 PM
sirs, tanong lang.. yun bang soundproofing and acoustic treatment na gagawin sa isang room eh detachable? halimbawang aalis ka na dun sa nirerent mo?
pwede nga ba itong ganito? halimbawa, nagrent ka lang ng commercial space, pero hindi ka sure kung permanent ka sa lugar na yon. pwede bang, i-disassemble yung treatments mo sa kwarto?
o pumapayag ba ung bulding owners na magtayo ng studio kahit hindi siya commercial space?
Post by: sound formula on April 04, 2008, 07:51:58 PM
Post by: KitC on April 04, 2008, 07:59:29 PM
Sirs and ma'ams, I am need of bass traps for my control room. I wish to do it DIY to (hopefully) save on money. What can I use as materials for my bass traps? If you will also be kind enough to give me some building/constructing tips to make the traps practical and at the same time effective, it would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Just google DIY bass traps... here's one: http://www.runet.edu/~shelm/acoustics/bass-traps.html
Post by: rad_12 on April 17, 2008, 11:42:13 AM
Post by: mikep on April 18, 2008, 08:04:28 PM
base sa mga magazines and places na napuntahan ko like yung sa philamlife theater sa UN ave. napansin ko parang wood ginamit nila sa acoustics nung lugar.
Wood is a very reflective acoustical material reflecting more of the higher frequencies and absorbing low frequencies. To get the correct room balance in an acoustical nature, you have to combine wood with diffusive and absorptive materials. The reason why wood was mainly used in the PhilamLife Auditorium is because it was designed as a concert hall - with higher reverberation especially on the HF. Here, however, high frequency control is done through carpets on the floor, the leatherette type seats, people and the curtains by the proscenium. Mid frequency control is done through some absorptive treatment somewhere. I have not been to PhilamLife for a long time, but if memory serves me right, the wood panels were devised as diffusive elementsl - to get a nice sonic character for the room; with ample control of bass, raising up on the mids and good, clear highs.
Can you use wood in studios? You can, but it depends n what kind of character you want for your studio. If you want a highly reflective and highly reverberated room, where orchestras, strings, classical music would be best recorded, wood would be it. If you want a flexible studio that is capable of doing rock, pop, jazz, etc., a combination of the different acoustic treatments, aside from wood, is necessary.
FWIW
Post by: in_the_tent on April 19, 2008, 10:29:47 AM
Post by: rad_12 on April 19, 2008, 02:25:48 PM
Post by: mikep on April 19, 2008, 03:33:43 PM
Bakit nga ba pala gypsum ang ginagamit imbis na plywood? alin ang mas mahal? at mas mabigat?
Gypsum kasi is not as resonant as plywood; kinda inert, thus, better in terms of controlling sound colorations in the room. That is why they use gypsum as wall and ceiling panelling a lot. Doubling the wall with gypsum give out a very good STC rating. Furthermore, they are cheaper than plywood. The price of a 1/2" gypsum is about half the price of plywood of the same thickness. Ano ang mas mabigat? Plywood yata (not sure).
FWIW
Post by: in_the_tent on April 20, 2008, 09:22:15 PM
Post by: in_the_tent on April 28, 2008, 11:18:56 PM
thanks.:)
Post by: mikep on April 29, 2008, 02:41:46 PM
ano gagawin nyo kapag me isang window lang ang isang room at yung part nun eh lalagyan nyo ng aircon. paano nyo isasoundproof yung remaining area ng window?
Pag-window type ang air con mo, sayang lang ang pag-soundproof, kasi yung window type air con may mga butas, So, maski na i-soundproof mo yung room, your air con will now be the source of unwanted noise from the outside. Sayang lang pera mo. Better to get a split type, mas mahal but better soundproofing wise.
FWIW
Post by: in_the_tent on April 30, 2008, 02:31:09 AM
Post by: peeves24 on April 30, 2008, 03:31:41 PM
ilang decibels ba ang normal na naririnig mo sa rehearsal studio or sa bar?
im trying to determine how much soundproofing i would need. i'll hire experts to do the construction but i just want to do some research to make an informed decision.
i looked at this chart and saw that normal background noise in residential areas is somewhere between 30 to 50db
http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/audio/dBexamp.html
assuming bands generate an average of 120db noise. my target is to get at least a minimum noise level of 50db
now lets go to the available wall designs based on this site
http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/index.html
am i correct to assume that the STC rating is the amount of db that a wall can isolate?
let's say i'll go for steel studs with 3 layers of plasterboard with insulation for the walls. the site indicates that i would get an STC rating of 64 so does that mean that it will bring down the 120db noise to 56db?
what about the ceiling? what if my ceiling is designed for STC 49? does that add up to the STC rating of the wall e.g. 120-(49+64) = 7db isolation?
Post by: mikep on April 30, 2008, 06:06:59 PM
let's say i'll go for steel studs with 3 layers of plasterboard with insulation for the walls. the site indicates that i would get an STC rating of 64 so does that mean that it will bring down the 120db noise to 56db?
About.
what about the ceiling? what if my ceiling is designed for STC 49? does that add up to the STC rating of the wall e.g. 120-(49+64) = 7db isolation?
120-49 would be your ceiling's isolation characteristic. Your studio will be generating much noise at 120 dBA. But since you maintain a lower SPL inside the studio, your generated noise level could be acceptable. For explanation purposes, if your walls have an STC of 64, your ceiling should have the same STC number. Your effective isolation number will be 56 dBA.
FWIW
Post by: peeves24 on May 02, 2008, 08:38:04 AM
Post by: in_the_tent on May 02, 2008, 10:31:34 PM
Post by: LouieAzcona on May 02, 2008, 11:13:27 PM
as in glass na kamuka ng nasa 7-11, ministop, mcdo. mga ganon.
fiber glass po un diba?
Post by: skunkyfunk on May 14, 2008, 09:38:39 PM
Thing is, I recommend using carrying channels on top of the standard metal studs/tracks to a certain person who wants his room soundproofed. Of course, that would mean more stud mounts for the carrying channels or furrings. I just haven't compared side by side if mounting the drywall on the studs would suffice.
We wanna avoid flanking and as such, we want a more "detached" wall.
Sir Mike can you help?
Post by: mikep on May 14, 2008, 10:27:29 PM
Flanking happens when your joints are not properly sealed. As long as there are no holes where sound can pass, your soundproofing will be okay.
FWIW
Post by: skunkyfunk on May 14, 2008, 11:09:40 PM
I am not sure of what you are referring to, but it seems you are talking about resilient strips - sort of metal strips that you place between two gypsum wall boards which provide some isolation to one layer of gypsum from the main gypsum wall. These are effective as they also provide differences in the resonance frequencies of the two wall boards. However, there are other ways of achieving good isolation. 1) Increasing the weight of the wall by adding layers of gypsum boards; 2) wider spacing of leaves or bigger air gaps between the wall boards; 3) use of staggered studs; 4) adding insulation blankets in between the wall boards, inside the cavity; and 5) caulking the perimeters with non hardening compound. Doing all of these or a combination will result to good isolation.
Flanking happens when your joints are not properly sealed. As long as there are no holes where sound can pass, your soundproofing will be okay.
FWIW
Many, many thanks sir mike! Whew... A lot also recommend staggering the studs but that means, more gastos hehehe.
Post by: mikep on May 15, 2008, 03:46:38 AM
Post by: botbenz on May 17, 2008, 03:48:43 PM
I am even more thrilled to learn from the masters, like MikeP. He is as legit and pro as they come. I should know because in the 90s, when Jim was just starting PhilMusic out of his ADB free time, I was a DJ for a radio station that MikeP co-founded (CityLite 88.3). That said, of course, he designed its on-air booth, where I went on the air for a good five years, and enjoyed every bit of it.
The last few weeks, I've been researching (you should too) about studio design. There are a ton of stuff on the Net. Of course, I bought a couple of books from the masters, Philip Newell, and F. Alton Everest, to name a few.
Like many of you, I am new to studio design/retrofitting. But already, I have much to share. For starters, here's my project studio, which I designed using BeLight's Live Interior 3D software, and lots of 3D object models from Google's 3D Warehouse:
http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/LawnView.jpg (http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/LawnView.jpg)
http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/FarLeftCornerView.jpg (http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/FarLeftCornerView.jpg)
http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/FarRightCornerView.jpg (http://www.textraextra.com/textra/images/FarRightCornerView.jpg)
But don't be fooled. This is just the interior design. I am a long way from being able to afford this. :-( But I can dream, can't I?
Of course, I have also gone deeper, beyond the looks and into the actual science of acoustics. Needless to say, I'm still a newbie, not like MikeP & Co. But if I am going to spend hard-earned money, I want to do it right, don't you? Anyway, I hope to share my newbie learnings along the way. And I hope to post the progress of "my new baby" on this forum, with pics and decision considerations.
For now, let me chime in on a recent post about furring channels. I, too, have been trying to source resilient channels here in Manila, but could not find them; not on the Net; not in Home Depot or Wilcon. The closest I got were these http://www.jeasteel.com.ph/cgi-bin/products/product_detail.asp?parent_id=2 (http://www.jeasteel.com.ph/cgi-bin/products/product_detail.asp?parent_id=2), hat-type furring channels. They look usable, but the hat was 1.5 to 2 inches deep, which meant it'll eat up more of my studio's interior space/floor area. Alternatively, I may just go with double dry walls, bonded together using Green Glue.
Like I said, there is much to share; too much, in fact, for one post. Stay tuned! ;)
Post by: fybergear@maker on May 23, 2008, 07:41:40 PM
Post by: botbenz on May 24, 2008, 02:34:26 PM
paano naman ang fresh air circulation?
best a/c is via HVAC (heating, ventilation, air conditioning) systems. if your studio is in a commercial building with centralized air conditioning, then your studio likely has HVAC. ask your building administrator.
there are HVAC systems for homes in the US, but understandably expensive. are there small HVAC systems in the philippines? if so, what's the minimum power configuration, in BTUs or HPs?
if HVAC is not a viable option, split-type a/c is your next best bet, because at least the compressor can be put some distance away, further isolating the compressor's noise (especially the low frequency ones) and structural vibration.
so the question now is "which split type a/c can you guys recommend?" and "how did you soundproof or seal the a/c tubes/pipes?" thanks.
Post by: mikep on May 25, 2008, 03:39:57 AM
BTW, there are ducted air con systems available locally but a little expensive. Call the air con manufacturers.
FWIW
Post by: pizarro84 on May 29, 2008, 08:27:38 AM
Post by: botbenz on June 01, 2008, 07:11:06 PM
tanong lang po ako ng inexpensive materials to kill the resonance (bedroom po) kasi pag nagse-set po ako ng effects pag dating sa labas iba na tunog dahil po sa resonance ng guitar amp sa kwarto ko. The room is 8' wide by 17' long and 10' high.
@pizarro84: I am not sure I understand your objective. Do you want to reduce resonance or reduce sound transmission? What kind of sound are you looking for pag dating sa labas?
I am an amateur in these matters, unlike MikeP who is a pro's pro. But allow me to share the little that I have learned:
1) Your room dimensions, especially if you have parallel surfaces (wall-wall, ceiling-floor), will tend to boost certain frequencies.
2) The materials that "soundproof" your room have different resonating frequencies. Generally speaking, the more mass the lower the resonating frequency.
Do you want to reduce the sound leaking out of the room, or do you want to keep the room from shaking/vibrating with the sound, or both?
Post by: botbenz on June 01, 2008, 07:49:06 PM
My biggest design concern now relates to the window. Using an old Nokia phone with a sound meter, I measured the sound levels outside the garage. The curb-side noise level hovered in the 70-80db range during the day, but occasionally peaked at low 90s when village tricycles zoomed by. That is not an issue because I will replace the garage door with an 8" solid concrete wall. But the noise at the lawn-side of the garage, where the window is, hovered in the 60s and occasionally peaked at 76db. Question is: What kind of window treatment would you suggest, assuming a window opening that is 8 feet wide, and 4 feet high?
No, getting rid of the window opening is not an option. This is my den/occasional guest room, not a commercial recording studio, and certainly not an unsightly bodega. I love natural light. The more the merrier. But unfortunately, the more light I let in, the more expensive it also becomes to soundproof. So I am settling for a compromise of 8'x4' window.
Will a 10mm plain glass on a 6" solid concrete wall, plus laminated glass on an isolated interior wall (drywall/staggered studs/rockwool/drywall) be "enough"? What would the effective STC of this combo be, assuming a 6" separation between the two glass panes? Even a rough estimate will do, give or take 5db.
And does anybody know how much 4'x'8' laminated glass cost? If you can post a supplier, that would help too.
Thanks!
Post by: pizarro84 on June 02, 2008, 02:16:15 AM
@pizarro84: I am not sure I understand your objective. Do you want to reduce resonance or reduce sound transmission? What kind of sound are you looking for pag dating sa labas?
I am an amateur in these matters, unlike MikeP who is a pro's pro. But allow me to share the little that I have learned:
1) Your room dimensions, especially if you have parallel surfaces (wall-wall, ceiling-floor), will tend to boost certain frequencies.
2) The materials that "soundproof" your room have different resonating frequencies. Generally speaking, the more mass the lower the resonating frequency.
Do you want to reduce the sound leaking out of the room, or do you want to keep the room from shaking/vibrating with the sound, or both?
Thanks for the response, I would like to keep the room from shaking/vibrating with the sound. By the way my ceiling is made of thin plywood sheet. I am interested with affordable materials that can attenuate the resonating frequencies in my room, those commonly used in entry level studios.
Post by: botbenz on June 02, 2008, 03:22:01 AM
Thanks for the response, I would like to keep the room from shaking/vibrating with the sound. By the way my ceiling is made of thin plywood sheet. I am interested with affordable materials that can attenuate the resonating frequencies in my room, those commonly used in entry level studios.A popular (probably because it is cost-effective, widely available, relatively light and has better soundproofing characteristics than plywood) material is drywall (aka gypsum board, plasterboard, SheetRock, et al), which sells for around P300 per 4'x8' panel/sheet. Some people use several layers of drywall, often using different thicknesses per layer so as not to compound resonance frequencies.
Most people, I suppose, screw one board over another. But in your case, it would help to spot your wall/ceiling's studs, without peeling off the old/existing surfaces. In other words, it's better to screw the drywall onto a stud than onto a thin plywood that has no underlayer. Alternatively, you can glue one drywall on an existing flat surface, although I do not know what locally available adhesives the pros recommend. I intend to use Green Glue, which I have to import in balikbayan boxes. :( But I guess glue is still cheaper than spending for MLV (mass-loaded vinyl) or going with pricey and heavy fiber-cement boards like Hardiflex.
Hope this helps somewhat. And good luck with the build!
Post by: pizarro84 on June 02, 2008, 11:43:35 AM
Post by: botbenz on June 02, 2008, 11:59:59 AM
^^ Thanks very much botbenz!! anyway is this available locally? where can I purchase one?You can buy gypsum board from most hardware supply stores. I've seen plenty of stock and variety in Wilcon and also Home Depot. I also recommend that you use acoustic caulk to fill gaps (corners, holes, et al). Perhaps other forum members can recommend a locally available acoustic caulk (I buy mine abroad at about $10 per tube.)
Post by: pizarro84 on June 02, 2008, 12:05:16 PM
Post by: LouieAzcona on June 07, 2008, 09:29:05 AM
Thanks so much, great help bro! GOD bless!
meron po (sobrang dami) gypsum sa Sm Fairview, sa Ace Hardware po, pasok ka pa sa pinakaloob, (Malaki Ace Hardware dun eh) meron doon, Ace Builders... nung isang gabi, kabibili ko lang dun ng acoustic board...
By The Way, hindi ko pa kinakabit ung acoustic board kasi hindi ako sure kung anong klaseng adhesive ang gagamitin ko.
ano nga ba? :-D
Post by: pizarro84 on June 08, 2008, 02:07:39 PM
meron po (sobrang dami) gypsum sa Sm Fairview, sa Ace Hardware po, pasok ka pa sa pinakaloob, (Malaki Ace Hardware dun eh) meron doon, Ace Builders... nung isang gabi, kabibili ko lang dun ng acoustic board...
By The Way, hindi ko pa kinakabit ung acoustic board kasi hindi ako sure kung anong klaseng adhesive ang gagamitin ko.
ano nga ba? :-D
Hehe layo naman nun ser, dito pa ako san pedro laguna eh :-D pero salamat sa tip, pag wala talaga ako mahanap, walang malayo at mainit sa musikerong mapilit :lol:
Post by: christer on July 12, 2008, 08:13:54 PM
I am not at all concerned about acoustically treating the room, i am just concerned about the rocks hitting the roof of our house everytime we practice. :-D
Post by: bandztudio on July 14, 2008, 09:36:31 AM
Francis
Post by: LouieAzcona on July 14, 2008, 11:38:07 PM
Post by: christer on July 15, 2008, 12:45:29 AM
One layer of Gypsum (12 mm) over CHB wall will certainly help. Better if this will be separately framed rather than attached directly so that a gap can be placed in between. Dont forget to dampen the in-between frames with rockwool or fiberglass otherwise, the boards migh be resonant for some mid-bass frequencies. Project mo na lang mag-patong 1 more layer later on pag may budget na. That would complete your soundproofing later, at least patong na lang yun over the same frame...dont forget to caulk joints....
Francis
Thanks bro!
Questions again friends:
I am planning to use 2 inch thick wooden frames instead of metal studs (as suggested in this forum). Would it be okay if i mount the gypsum boards on the said wooden frames?
Also, i am still considering if i do need the dampening material (fiber glass) since my only concern is to eliminate, or limit the sound coming out of my room. Would the said setup (CHB wall + 2 inch gap (wooden mounting frames)+ 1/2'' gypsum board) be enough to do the job? Again, i would like to reiterate that i am not really concerned if the walls would resonate, just as long as the sound coming out of my room would be eliminated or limited. We practice in a full band setup in my room.
Another thing. How much would it help if i replace my glass sliding windows with fiber glass?
Thanks!
Post by: botbenz on July 15, 2008, 01:07:46 AM
Would it be okay if i mount the gypsum boards on the said wooden frames?Sure! But better if the wooden frame is isolated from the CHB wall; that is, freestanding with air gap in between, instead of nailed to the CHB wall.
Also, i am still considering if i do need the dampening material (fiber glass) since my only concern is to eliminate, or limit the sound coming out of my room. Would the said setup (CHB wall + 2 inch gap (wooden mounting frames)+ 1/2'' gypsum board) be enough to do the job?Fiber glass makes for good THERMAL insulation, but not particularly good for sound proofing. You are better off with rock wool, if you can afford it (approx p1,000 for 50 square feet of 2"-thick 60kg/m3 rock wool).
Another thing. How much would it help if i replace my glass sliding windows with fiber glass?Fiber glass is "glass" that comes as strands of fiber. Think of it as glass textile; it does not usually come in rigid panes that can be used as a door or window. For your needs, tempered glass or laminated glass would be better, but also more expensive.
Just think of the extra expense as life insurance. Without proper soundproofing, your neighbors could put your life at risk. ;)
Post by: christer on July 15, 2008, 01:22:59 AM
Fiber glass makes for good THERMAL insulation, but not particularly good for sound proofing. You are better off with rock wool, if you can afford it (approx p1,000 for a 25 foot roll of 2"x2' 60kg/m3 rock wool).
Fiber glass is "glass" that comes as strands of fiber. Think of it as glass textile; it does not usually come in rigid panes that can be used as a door or window. For your needs, tempered glass or laminated glass would be better, but also more expensive.
Thanks for the quick reply bro. Ill do some canvassing work on the tempered glass and rock wool.
Sure! But better if the wooden frame is isolated from the CHB wall; that is, freestanding with air gap in between, instead of nailed to the CHB wall.
What difference would a freestanding wall make, as opposed to one being nailed on to the CHB wall?
Just think of the extra expense as life insurance. Without proper soundproofing, your neighbors could put your life at risk. ;)
Haha great point! violent neighbors!
Post by: bandztudio on July 15, 2008, 06:39:17 PM
On dampening, Yes, unfortunately, you need to dampen the in between frames. As for wood, make sure its not the gemilina or the malaysian variety na mabigat, you will have a hard time driving the black gypsum screws, pwedeng maputol.
Francis
Post by: j3yps on July 17, 2008, 03:52:45 PM
Post by: botbenz on July 17, 2008, 03:56:33 PM
What difference would a freestanding wall make, as opposed to one being nailed on to the CHB wall?The goal is acoustic isolation; the less points of contact between the two surfaces, the better. Nailing the wooden frame to the CHB wall increases the points of contact. A secure, freestanding wall shares only one point of contact with the CHB wall--the floor.
Of course, there are trade-offs. A freestanding wooden frame will yield higher TL (transmission loss), but at the expense of a smaller floor space.
Post by: alien_inside on July 17, 2008, 04:28:02 PM
Mga sir hanggang saan kaya mararating nang 20k ko if magsoundproof ako nang room?
calculate: the cheapest GWB is P275. how abt your frames? 2x4x16? how wide is your room... i spent 35T with my 9x8x16..the booth is 9x6..
Post by: botbenz on July 17, 2008, 10:48:42 PM
calculate: the cheapest GWB is P275. how abt your frames? 2x4x16? how wide is your room... i spent 35T with my 9x8x16..the booth is 9x6..GWB panels typically come in 8'x4' sheets. a 2"x4"x16' wood plank costs p928. you'll need about 1.75 times that wood plank to frame each GWB panel.
an 8 foot high 10'x12' room has a wall surface area of 352 sq ft, which will cost about p3,025 in GWB and roughly p20T in framing--which excludes the ceiling, caulk, paint, and labor.
hope that gives you a rough idea of costs.
Post by: gesam10 on August 02, 2008, 03:28:01 PM
Post by: botbenz on August 02, 2008, 06:59:58 PM
at the risk of hastily generalizating, allow me to reduce soundproofing to three basic principles:
1) mass - the more mass the better; generally, anyway, because there are exceptions;
2) air tightness - where air goes, sound goes;
3) physical isolation - which explains why many designs call for floating rooms, room-within-rooms, etc.
if you want to go cheap, look for the most effective alternatives in these areas. good luck!
Post by: LouieAzcona on August 04, 2008, 09:08:19 AM
mag tol egg trey kasi un ginamit ko sa pagssound proof ng studio ko..mlaki din un binawas na ingay.. ask ko lng kung nu ba mgandang ilagay pang sound proof na tlagang walang ingay na lumabas.. un mura lang.. tnx
yan ang masakit bro... kung gusto mo magSOUNDPROOF, kelangan mo talaga gumastos.
Post by: acoustic_newbie on August 27, 2008, 07:10:44 PM
Post by: dolfmen on August 28, 2008, 03:24:50 AM
Post by: botbenz on August 28, 2008, 09:16:28 AM
Post by: dolfmen on August 28, 2008, 10:30:57 AM
Post by: botbenz on August 29, 2008, 12:00:11 AM
anyway, egg trays make for lousy soundproofing materials.
bottomline sa soundproofing: mass (yung mabigat at malaman). of course, that has challenges too. mahirap magsabit ng mabigat. lawit etlog mo. ;)
back read mo yung thread na ito. maraming maayos na suggestions, lalo na yung kay mikep.
mass, isolation, and air tightness, in general. good luck.
Post by: alien_inside on August 29, 2008, 12:13:14 AM
so whats the answer? kaya nga nag tatanong eh, :? sana sinagot mo na lng yng tanong ko :lol:
eggtray, fruittray( apples/oranges = looks better ) wont help on soundproofing... diffuser baka pwede pa... but stack at least 10 trays then paste it behind you. you might need at least more than 200 trays...times PHP4.00 each...
Post by: dolfmen on August 29, 2008, 01:00:22 AM
Post by: in_the_tent on August 29, 2008, 10:43:38 AM
For the floor, try puzzle mats and/or 1- 2 layers of 3/8" rebonded foam (like the ones you see under carpets for cars) then carpet.question, alin mas mura sa 2?:)
Post by: LouieAzcona on August 30, 2008, 01:10:17 AM
question, alin mas mura sa 2?:)
sa puzzle mat chka carpet?
puzzle mat mas mura.
pinakamurang carpet na alam ko sa binondo. 180 per meter. plain lang na carpet. ung carpet na nasa sahig ng mga koche. ganon.
Post by: in_the_tent on August 30, 2008, 09:14:26 AM
Post by: LouieAzcona on August 30, 2008, 08:13:20 PM
yun ba yung rebonded foam sir?
anu yung rebonded foam? baka alam ko lang ichura nung tinutukoy mo pero hindi ko alam pangalan...
basta usually, gray in color ung carpet na yon. light or dark gray. yun ung carpet na usually ginagamit sa sahig ng mga sasakyan. un din ung mga carpet na ginagamit sa mga cheap na speaker cabinets.
Post by: alien_inside on August 31, 2008, 04:00:53 AM
crazy talk yng 10 trays tapos lagay sa wall, :-o liit din kasi ng space nasa attic kame. sakto lang yng sound di na din pala masyado nagagalit yng mga kapitbahay naminsa proofing, no use mga yun... diffuse lang siguro. pero huwag mo na i-try. mahirap gawin yun.
Post by: inswinger7 on September 04, 2008, 01:56:45 AM
1) Huber, David Miles, and Robert E. Runstein. Modern Recording Techniques, 5th Edition. Oxford: Focal Press, 2005.
2) Rumsey, Francis, and Tim McCormick. Sound and Recording, An Introduction 4th Edition. Oxford: Focal Press, 2002.
3) Eargle, John M. Handbook of Modern Recording Engineering, 4th Edition. Norwell, MA: Kluwer Academic Publishers, 2003.
Acoustic topics are normally in the early chapters. You don't have to master all the mathematical formulas, just get a good idea how it works.
:mrgreen:
Post by: palaka on September 16, 2008, 10:14:31 AM
yung control room po pala nasa loob ng bahay namin tapus yung tracking room nakadikit sa bahay tapus may salamin lang para makita ang nagrerecord.
studio floor plan wala pa pong sukat
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/BAHOHERO/studiofloorplan2.gif)
Post by: SAITOHAJIME on September 24, 2008, 04:45:52 PM
eggtray, fruittray( apples/oranges = looks better ) wont help on soundproofing... diffuser baka pwede pa...
Does this mean pwede gamitin yun egg trays to cut down on echoes? Kaya cguro meron parin gumagamit nito and claim that it still works.
Post by: mikep on September 25, 2008, 06:54:23 PM
FWIW
Post by: in_the_tent on September 25, 2008, 07:40:03 PM
Egg trays as they are made today, do not have sufficient absorption coefficients usable for acoustical purposes. I believe some people use them for not knowing the properties of these materials and what to use for sound control and tempering. There is a long thread regarding the use of egg trays in this site and I think, it is our duty to let people know about. The real danger actually is not in their use as acoustical materials. It is the flammability factor that is important here. Much the same as foam (especially those without retardant properties - even foam with fire retardant chemicals catches fire real fast), egg cartons can catch fire easily. Dangerous.i completely agree with you sir. how about curtains? flamable din po un diba? i read somewhere na sinuggest nyo po ito. sugal na lang ba talaga?
FWIW
Post by: mikep on September 25, 2008, 08:02:01 PM
FWIW
Post by: in_the_tent on September 25, 2008, 09:12:59 PM
Post by: child309 on September 30, 2008, 11:25:23 PM
About egg tray-- may effect po ba na maganda kung 2 layers ang ikakabet?
Tnx!
Post by: mikep on October 01, 2008, 09:16:38 PM
Egg trays? You never put them on top of one another. Walang effect yun. Biro lang yung comment previously. Never use egg trays, unless you want to be different from convention and would like to show na mayroon kang acoustical knowledge kunwari.
FWIW
Post by: skyjammer on October 01, 2008, 10:34:45 PM
Curtains and carpets are both absorption materials although the frequencies they absorb differ. But if you would like the reverberation time of your room to decrease, removing mostly reflections on the high frequency region, carpet or curtain would be okay. Carpet the floors and two sides of the 4 walls and you will have a fairly decent studio with at least a .4 sec. RT60.
Egg trays? You never put them on top of one another. Walang effect yun. Biro lang yung comment previously. Never use egg trays, unless you want to be different from convention and would like to show na mayroon kang acoustical knowledge kunwari.
FWIW
This thread is crazy it's keeping me away from my office work. I should be working by now but look at what I'm doing! I'm posting a reply! :-D :-D :-D
mabuhay si sir mikep! Sir, post ka naman ng audio workshop schedules mo dito. babahain ka namain ng tanong. hehehe!
Post by: SAITOHAJIME on October 04, 2008, 06:05:34 PM
Quote
Just think of the extra expense as life insurance. Without proper soundproofing, your neighbors could put your life at risk.
Kailangan na kailangan ko ito. Nagrereklamo ang mga kapitbahay ko pag nagtatambol ako..Kailangan ko ng sound proofing. Eto ang naisipan kong design.
Walls: 5" CHB + 1/2" gypsum board on wood frames. Spaces to be filled with
rockwool fiber.
Floor: Rubber mats + cheap carpets. (yun mga nabibili sa divisoria). I'm thinking of using dampers for the drum set using tennis balls. Dito ko rin yun nakita. Sa 2nd floor yung room kya sa tingin ko kailangan nito.
Ceiling: no idea
Ventilation: Split type airconditioning
windows: No windows
comments pls...ok na ba ito??. Yun sa ceiling wala pa akong idea. At yun sa mga corners, dapat daw sealed pero di ko alam kung paano.
The goal is cut down on the noise coming out of the room to avoid conflicts with the neighbors.
Post by: botbenz on October 13, 2008, 08:24:52 PM
where is your neighbor, underneath, above your room, or in a different house and lot?
also, what is your floor made of, concrete, wood, combination?
how big is your room?
Post by: palaka on October 14, 2008, 12:12:40 AM
Post by: botbenz on October 14, 2008, 03:56:56 AM
so your control room is in the house, so presumably that does not have a concrete roof like your tracking room, correct?
you can control echo by: 1) avoiding parallel surfaces (walls, ceiling/floor); 2) using absorbers; and 3) diffusers.
unless you live in a posh country home, remote from all the urban jungle noise, concrete alone may not be sufficient noise insulation. you may need additional layers--walls, ceiling/floor.
i would also recommend double doors to keep noise from seeping into your tracking room. additionally, you will need to treat your room's acoustics, which typically entails curtains, carpets, bass traps, diffusers, etc.
it all depends on the acoustic fidelity you are looking for--and, of course, the inescapable budget.
Post by: mikep on October 14, 2008, 06:39:17 PM
... pero concrete po lahat pati yung bubong niya simento ... hindi po kaya maging sobrang echo nun pag natapos?
Yes. What you will get is an echo chamber. Put absorbers on certain areas of the walls, ceiling and flooring to lower down the reverberation of the room. You need to keep it down to .35 to .45 sec. That reverb chamber will have at least a 1.5 sec RT60, depending on the size of the room.
FWIW
Post by: alien_inside on October 26, 2008, 12:10:51 PM
Yes. What you will get is an echo chamber. Put absorbers on certain areas of the walls, ceiling and flooring to lower down the reverberation of the room. You need to keep it down to .35 to .45 sec. That reverb chamber will have at least a 1.5 sec RT60, depending on the size of the room.IMO, in some cases, helpful din ang reverb chamber especially on vocals...lalu na if manipis ang voice ng vocalist...
FWIW
on SNARES also... ( but the drummer won't opt to record the snares alone...so i use the plate rev for snares... ).
sir mike, regarding curtains, anong tela ang maganda? other than what you've mentioned earlier in this thread? other options...?
Post by: peeves24 on November 07, 2008, 10:07:47 AM
Post by: botbenz on November 07, 2008, 12:10:42 PM
But the weakest link, I think, is the seal. It is easier to seal a swinging door than a sliding door. Naturally, sliding doors have "sliding space"; gaps that reduce friction between the moving surfaces. So those would be your natural sources of leaks.
But, of course, it also depends on what kind of noise reduction you are looking for. Some people are marginally less fastidious about noise into the control room than they are with tracking rooms.
And the trade-offs. For my personal DIY SOHO/studio, I traded a bit of noise for a lot of light, at the expense of higher cost (two laminated glass panes on separate, isolated structures). Good luck with yours.
Post by: peeves24 on November 07, 2008, 01:40:42 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3071/3009110793_b88e972f2e.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3228/3009110809_94b9f3aa6c.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3166/3009472929_c8231a5662.jpg)
background info:
- bongaloo type yung bahay
- 1 spare room and it has 3 concrete walls already. the 4th wall is wood that separates it from the master's bedroom. i will definitely knock it down and make it concrete as well.
- ceiling will also replaced with concrete (abang na para sa 2nd floor)
- separate control and tracking rooms
- isolation level na gusto ko, yung pwede ko magdrums kahit hatinggabi
- mag iinvest sa split type aircon (problema lang 2 rooms yung studio, ducting?)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3146/3009472933_86b9b6312b.jpg)
Post by: botbenz on November 07, 2008, 11:11:22 PM
what software did you use to draft and visualize your design?
presumably, your rooms don't have parallel surfaces. it's tough to visualize when seen from a vanishing point perspective.
are you contemplating the sliding doors between the control and tracking rooms, or between your studio and the living room? if it's the former, i guess sliding doors may suffice. but you'll probably have to mute your monitors (use headphones instead) during recording, so monitor audio does not seep into your tracking room.
you sure you want separate rooms? i thought my 12'x20' studio was small. i decided not to have two separate rooms, well, because 80% of the time, i will use the room as a SOHO--a very quiet one.
you and i are roughly at the same stage of our "studio" builds, it seems. here's mine: http://web.mac.com/botbenz/Music/Blog/Blog.html (http://web.mac.com/botbenz/Music/Blog/Blog.html), which i ought to update, since my design has changed since then.
regardless, you and i can probably use a few tips from master mikep. :D
Post by: peeves24 on November 09, 2008, 09:58:01 AM
yup sliding doors for the tracking and control room. solid core na lang dun sa entrance. yung control room walang parallel surfaces pero yung tracking room meron (to maximize my space). maglalagay na lang ako ng absorbers dun sa corners (orange thingies)
Post by: botbenz on November 09, 2008, 01:57:37 PM
- isolate the wall from the concrete wall, creating a room within a room--which, judging from your sketch, seems to be what you are doing;
- cover the rear side of your frame with two layers (hardiflex+gypsum or gypsum x2); caulk/seal gaps;
- fill the space between the studs with rockwool;
- cover the front with acoustically neutral fabric (i don't know where to get that yet)
- since one of the sides will be glass, which is very reflective, i would make the other three surfaces absorptive, not just the corners
but then, that's me, an amateur DIYer.
are you thinking of floating your floor? the low frequency thuds are the ones that will be difficult to contain, i would think.
Post by: peeves24 on November 10, 2008, 11:27:58 AM
eto siguro mas malinaw na illustration with measurements, enough to house a 6-piece drum kit.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3004/3017393501_61e8a53fb3.jpg)
Post by: dabomb on November 11, 2008, 08:37:44 PM
Post by: mikep on November 12, 2008, 01:32:46 AM
FWIW
Post by: dabomb on November 12, 2008, 09:28:39 AM
Post by: KitC on November 12, 2008, 10:06:07 AM
good day to all... sir mikep meron po ba ibang subtitute sa rockwool? cheaper but effective... tnx po.. :-D
Technically, rockwool and fiberglass are one and the same, the only difference being fiberglass is a trademark of Du Pont.
Re: cotton batt, I don't think it is recommended since it is organic and will decay over time.
Post by: mikep on November 12, 2008, 07:05:55 PM
Thanks.
Post by: KitC on November 13, 2008, 01:01:04 PM
We learn something new everyday...
Post by: mikep on November 13, 2008, 03:06:15 PM
FWIW
Post by: botbenz on November 14, 2008, 03:37:08 PM
Technically, rockwool and fiberglass are one and the same, the only difference being fiberglass is a trademark of Du Pont.Is branding the only difference?
My understanding is that they are similar (both are mineral fibers), but not the same (one is made of glass and polymers; the other made of rock/stone). I suppose one can argue that glass is made of silica, which is a form of rock. But are their acoustic properties the same?
Also, if the same mass/densities of rockwool and fiberglass were compared, which is cheaper? There's probably some metric out there for cost per STL decibel too. But come to think of it now, price is linear, but decibel is logarithmic!
The carcinogenicity concern was timely, as I am weeks from investing in mineral fiber for my SOHO/studio. As it turns out, rockwool and fiberglass have recently been found to have low carcinogenicity.
Post by: KitC on November 14, 2008, 05:36:32 PM
Like I said, we learn something new everyday.
Post by: SAITOHAJIME on November 15, 2008, 03:23:08 PM
saito-san, :-D
where is your neighbor, underneath, above your room, or in a different house and lot?
also, what is your floor made of, concrete, wood, combination?
how big is your room?
Neighbors are right next door separated only by a firewall which also happens to be one of the walls of the room. Its located upstairs, directly below it is the kitchen. All 4 walls are made of concrete + the floor. Plywood ceilings. Size? never tried to measure it but its around 11' X 7' X 9'.
I am still looking for alternatives for rockwools which is kinda pricey. I came across scrap ceiling boards which i saw in the junk shop. Pwede ba yun?!?!
Post by: mikep on November 15, 2008, 04:06:46 PM
I am still looking for alternatives for rockwools which is kinda pricey. I came across scrap ceiling boards which i saw in the junk shop. Pwede ba yun?!?!
If your purpose is for insulation, ceiling boards or acoustical tiles cannot be used. You would want a more fuzzy stuff like glass fiber or rockwool. Glass fiber is cheaper than rock wool. But if you intend to line your walls (inside) to augment the glass fiber for further isolation, you can use them. Before you put the final gypsum wall, put the scrap ceiling tiles. In that way, you also create some sort of a better acoustic impedance.
FWIW
Post by: SAITOHAJIME on November 16, 2008, 12:53:54 PM
BTW, i plan to use wood as a frame for the gypsum boards, magkakaroon po b ng diperensya ito?
Post by: mikep on November 16, 2008, 10:51:54 PM
BTW, i plan to use wood as a frame for the gypsum boards, magkakaroon po b ng diperensya ito?
No, but metal studs would be better in terms of acoustic performance, defense against bukbok, and fire safety.
FWIW
Post by: botbenz on November 16, 2008, 11:48:05 PM
Post by: alien_inside on November 17, 2008, 12:09:33 AM
Opinion ko lang:
about steel framing on the topic, malamang mas mura pa rin, including LABOR ( welders et al )... considering that wood framing for gypsum ( and other layers ), 2 x 4 is needed ( kung talagang susundin nya ang theory )...
Post by: mikep on November 17, 2008, 12:14:55 AM
FWIW
Post by: alien_inside on November 17, 2008, 12:28:02 AM
Post by: LouieAzcona on November 17, 2008, 01:18:45 AM
Post by: botbenz on November 17, 2008, 09:17:22 AM
@louieazcona: the metal studs are typically riveted to a base track. go to home depot or wilcon. they usually have sample set-ups of metal framing, including base, studs, joists, furring channels, etc. but if you're asking about metal framing for ceilings, the joist's ends are usually attached to the side wall studs, then supported (so the joists don't sag from the ceiling weight) with steel angles and suspension clips. i learned all these by asking the sales assistants at wilcon, and by looking up the manufacturer's website (http://www.jeasteel.com.ph/ (http://www.jeasteel.com.ph/)). but, of course, i'll have a pro install them. hanggang insulation, electrical, and pintura lang ako. :roll:
Post by: mikep on November 17, 2008, 06:28:24 PM
ung metal studs po ba, kinakabit sa existing ceiling? o naka-hang?
Depends on your design set up. If you are building a framing inside a concrete room to hang baffling and acoustic absorbers, the studs are placed directly to the walls and ceiling. If you are doing it for isolation purposes, they are set about 2" away from the walls, 4" (at least) in the ceiling. These should be supported by angle bars to stiffen the structure for the additional load like layers of gypsum and cemboard or whatever. If you are constructing a room within a room, the metal structure should be anchored using acoustic isolators, from the flooring all the way to the ceiling as well as the walls. The metal structure should not be touching any of the existing structure for maximum isolation. The internet has some procedures and designs on how to do this stuff. Go to the webpage of SAE.
FWIW
Post by: botbenz on November 17, 2008, 09:37:11 PM
sir mikep: i built a "floating floor", a 3" cement slab floor (with deformed bars) atop a 4" sand bed, atop compacted earth. this floor does not touch the concrete walls of my room. since the floor is somewhat isolated (sand being a moderate dampener), do you still recommend that i isolate the base/tracks of the wall frame from this quasi-floating floor? i thought of mass-loaded vinyl sheets or neoprene pads, but questioned their necessity, given that the floor is already somewhat floating. your expert advise would be much appreciated by me, but also by fellow newbies. thanks.
Post by: mikep on November 17, 2008, 11:12:26 PM
Now, would you need the pads to float your flooring using neoprene and all? If you are able to achieve your desired result, let it be. You've already spent lots of money. You just have to watch out on things that might grow underneath your flooring.
FWIW
Post by: botbenz on November 18, 2008, 12:02:34 AM
A 4" cement slab would have been better. Also, I have problems with sand as when it settles down, sometimes it does not level properly that your slab flooring can be misaligned.I surmised as much, which is why I had the mason form stilts, using deformed bars. So my floor looks like a spider, with the stilts tip-toed against the old concrete floor beneath the compacted earth.
So my floor look will look like:
[Engineered wood]
[Underlay]
[Concrete slab floor, with deformed bar and "stilts"]
[Sand bed]
[Compacted earth/soil]
[Old concrete floor, which is probably 12"-15" beneath the room floor]
Since I haven't built the room within the room yet, maybe I should consult a pest expert to treat the floor (or at least the perimeter) and then air it out for a while. Darn, I should've gone for the floor joists on neoprene U-boats instead.
Anyway, I'd like to seek your professional (with pay, if wifey, who used to be one of your UP Masscom students, does not sneer at the price) advice on room treatment. Sometime early next year.
Just the same, thanks for guiding us newbies in this forum. Maraming salamat po.
Post by: mikep on November 18, 2008, 01:16:32 AM
I surmised as much, which is why I had the mason form stilts, using deformed bars. So my floor looks like a spider, with the stilts tip-toed against the old concrete floor beneath the compacted earth.
Normally, you would put metal bars to harden and support the cement slab. Putting sort of stilts might result to a short circuit with the existing compacted earth as the sand and soil settle down a few inches. It is really better to use real honest to goodness neoprene or spring isolators. Anyway, ...
FWIW
Post by: lovecore on November 18, 2008, 05:18:45 AM
Post by: botbenz on November 18, 2008, 09:10:19 AM
Normally, you would put metal bars to harden and support the cement slab. Putting sort of stilts might result to a short circuit with the existing compacted earth as the sand and soil settle down a few inches. It is really better to use real honest to goodness neoprene or spring isolators.Oh, yes, I forgot to mention that the deformed bars were primarily there to harden and support the cement slab. But I guess I'll take the tiny short circuit trade-off over a floor tilt! :| Anyway, my goal is a quiet SOHO, not a commercial-grade studio. I'll go to a pro studio for anything more serious than a demo CD!
Just the same, thanks for the advice. Your experience trounces all our collective newbie hacks! :-D
Post by: mikep on November 18, 2008, 06:25:03 PM
Post by: botbenz on November 21, 2008, 12:43:32 AM
a 2"x3"x10' metal (g.i. by jeasteel) stud costs p200. a treated (armorwood, which is supposed to keep anay and bukbok away) wood stud of the same size costs p440. so, at least, stud-wise, metal is more cost-effective. but, of course, their structural framing requirements may be different, well, since metal and wood have different tensile and compression characteristics.
i also learned that "pound for pound", fiber cement boards, like hardiflex, are more cost-effective; that is, they cost less per kg/m3. and they take up less space. a 4.5mm hardiflex sheet (4'x8') weighs slightly more than a 9.5mm gypsum board. the primary advantage of gypsum is that they are ready to paint over. fiber cement boards have a much rougher finish. i plan to use a combination: fiber cement board and a gypsum board, with green glue in between.
sir mikep, since you convincingly (no brainer) swayed me into metal framing, question: do you recommend using horizontal blocking between studs? on one hand, rigidity should minimize vibration/resonance (the less the studs sway/flex, the less the panels will oscillate, right?). on the other hand, won't the blocking effectively "short-circuit" the two studs? i am inclined to employ staggered (not a contiguous horizontal member) blocking, unless you think that that's unnecessary. again, thanks!
Post by: mikep on November 22, 2008, 02:23:06 AM
but, of course, their structural framing requirements may be different, well, since metal and wood have different tensile and compression characteristics.
i also learned that "pound for pound", fiber cement boards, like hardiflex, are more cost-effective; that is, they cost less per kg/m3. and they take up less space. a 4.5mm hardiflex sheet (4'x8') weighs slightly more than a 9.5mm gypsum board.
sir mikep, since you convincingly (no brainer) swayed me into metal framing, question: do you recommend using horizontal blocking between studs? on one hand, rigidity should minimize vibration/resonance (the less the studs sway/flex, the less the panels will oscillate, right?). on the other hand, won't the blocking effectively "short-circuit" the two studs? i am inclined to employ staggered (not a contiguous horizontal member) blocking, unless you think that that's unnecessary. again, thanks!
To answer your questions - walls made of metal studs perform better acoustically compared to those made of wood studs.
Combination of Hardiflex (brand) and gypsum board (normally, better if gypsum -Hardiflex-gypsum on metal studs) provides better acoustic impedance as the two materials have differing acoustical properties. The transfer of soundwaves is hindered better with this type of arrangement.
"Horizontal blocking" would definitely short circuit your walls. As the metal studs have enough rigidity, you do not need a "blocking" device. Just make sure you use 16" o. c. so that the wall is solid. You do not need horizontal members if you do your studding this way. But if you would want to add more rigidity, a horizontal member of about 60" from your base plate will do better wall performance. If you want to have connection between your double stud wall for better support, you have to have sway braces which must be acoustically decoupled - meaning some sort of a break using neoprene isolators is necessary. The net would have models of these.
FWIW
Post by: j3yps on November 26, 2008, 08:48:14 PM
Post by: peeves24 on December 08, 2008, 06:52:32 PM
nainspire lang ako dun sa bolt-on office cubicle walls kaya naisip ko na baka pwedeng gumawa din ng bolt-on studio.
example, pwede tayo gumawa ng 6'x2' panels with 4"x2" framing tapos lagyan ng 2 layers ng gypsum yung one side (eto yung outside wall). lagyan ng 2" insulation between the studs of the frame. lagyan ng fabric cover yung exposed part ng insulation. finally, lagyan ng wood planks para maging helmholtz resonator yung wall. yung bawat side nung frames, merong lag bolts para makabit sila side by side.
for the floating floor, same framing style pero lalagyan ng 2 layers ng 3/4" plywood instead of gypsum yung 1 side para maging floor na. yung underside naman ng frame, lalagyan ng 2" insulation ulit in between studs tapos neoprene pads. dito sa floor maglalagay ng bolts na pagkakapitan nung walls.
yung ceiling, ipapatong lang naman yung 6x2 panel ulit sa walls then bolt on na.
madali lang maglagay ng ports para may provision sa airconditiong via flexible ducts para walang flanking path.
after mo i-assemble yung panels, lagyan ng caulk to seal the joins
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/3091688859_055a0a8584.jpg)
- mas less yung kakaining space kesa mag double wall ka plus may acoustic treatment pa = laking tipid sa materyales
- hindi ka gagastos ng isang bagsak kasi bibili ka ng materials on a per-panel basis
- its not permanently installed, ideal sa mga nagrerent lang ng space
- you can even do away with the aircon ducts, as you can open the door to the booth to let air in = tipid ulit. kaya lang kailangan ilagay mo sya sa room na may existing aircon, kahit pa ordinary wall unit lang yung AC
wachuthink mga master? nasa tamang pagiisip pa ba ko?
Post by: botbenz on December 08, 2008, 10:36:33 PM
pwede naman talaga yung minumungkahi mo eh. ano ba yung mga isolation booths na nabibili? di na rin nalalayo yun sa ipinaliwanag mo.
caveat: i'm sure you are aware of it, but not all are; that there is a proper way to build a helmholz resonator, partly depending on the frequencies you are trying to treat.
also, the applicability of your design partly depends on room size. builders of larger rooms would probably opt for a mix of absorbers and diffusers. you only prescribed the former, so it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.
but, of course, you and i don't have half the experience of the masters. so they ultimately have the final say!
Post by: lovecore on December 08, 2008, 11:23:29 PM
@peeves!
pwede naman talaga yung minumungkahi mo eh. ano ba yung mga isolation booths na nabibili? di na rin nalalayo yun sa ipinaliwanag mo.
caveat: i'm sure you are aware of it, but not all are; that there is a proper way to build a helmholz resonator, partly depending on the frequencies you are trying to treat.
also, the applicability of your design partly depends on room size. builders of larger rooms would probably opt for a mix of absorbers and diffusers. you only prescribed the former, so it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.
but, of course, you and i don't have half the experience of the masters. so they ultimately have the final say!
I'm also curious as to what the masters here have to say on peeves suggestion. Very interesting...
Peeves, magkano kaya abutin yung mga ganyan roughly?
Post by: mikep on December 09, 2008, 12:46:15 AM
FWIW
Post by: peeves24 on December 09, 2008, 10:47:46 AM
@peeves!
pwede naman talaga yung minumungkahi mo eh. ano ba yung mga isolation booths na nabibili? di na rin nalalayo yun sa ipinaliwanag mo.
caveat: i'm sure you are aware of it, but not all are; that there is a proper way to build a helmholz resonator, partly depending on the frequencies you are trying to treat.
also, the applicability of your design partly depends on room size. builders of larger rooms would probably opt for a mix of absorbers and diffusers. you only prescribed the former, so it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.
but, of course, you and i don't have half the experience of the masters. so they ultimately have the final say!
yep the booth is supposed to be built inside my existing room so in effect, i'll also be having a room within a room setup but purely for drum and guitar tracking. primary concern will be to keep outside noise out of the mics. i get to keep my existing wall aircon unit and renovation to my existing room will be kept to a minimum (add door seals, replace existing plywood ceiling with hat channels + gypsum)
since masyadong maliit yung booth (7' high, 5'7" wide, 6' 11' long), i can only do so much with acoustic treatments and may even completely do nothing about it. hahabulin ko na lang sa mixing.
i think im being carried away by my research and too much reading. the prospect of building a pro level studio is way out of my budget, at least not in 5 years time, after im done paying my mortgage.
The bolt technique is do-able, but the design of your isolation wall has to be that it has to have enough STC to stop whatever noise is to be blocked going in or out. A wall stud with one or two gypsum panels are not enough for sound isolation purposes. You need a thick wall with enough air space, isolated studs from one another, and good filling of absorptive materials inside the wall. Also, the acoustic treatment would depend on the RT60 you are trying to achieve for your room. It is not only Helmholtz resonators and absorbers that you have to provide. You have to compute for the correct LF energy to arrest as well as the desired RT60 and the corresponding RT60 curve from 125 hz. to 4 khz. Your biggest problem will be, how to make the whole structure stand and stay erect and sturdy. That is why we use acoustical hangers from the ceiling, wall isolation supports or anti-sway pads on walls and floor neoprene pucks for isolating the floor. At the same time, you need to keep the joints tightly sealed not only through caulking but by inter-locking techniques. I have designs of movable rooms that I have done to be provided for some TV networks, but instead of being able to save, the cost is almost the same and sometimes is even more expensive compared to conventional studio construction methods. Unless you can come up with an efficient and low cost design that really works, then you make it.
FWIW
thanks sir mike! yes, there will be interlocking sections with rubber seals.
im still considering other options but this scheme seems to be the perfect compromise for my budget and my needs (at the moment). the problem is, i dont know what i want 2 years from now. i was thinking of spending 20k for this project, if i can use it for 5 years then i can say that its worth it but if i outgrow my needs in less than that time then im in trouble, again.
Post by: botbenz on December 10, 2008, 02:50:36 PM
if you don't know what you'll want two years from now, good for you. most will want to upgrade after six months. what if you're not satisfied with how your room sounds? upgrade in two weeks! :P
suggest you work on the outer room of your room-within-a-room first; soundproof that, and see (well, hear) how much noise gets in and out first. before i built/soundproofed my outer room, i measured the ambient noise. when tricycles passed by (most commercial studios don't have to deal with this residential pollution), the vroom outside the room measured 70db--so i had that to contend with.
i just completed my outer room, and the little noise (my nokia phone with SPL meter can only measure down to 30db) that comes in seems to only come in through the hollow steel door! so i plan to Green Glue+screw a layer of 3/4" plywood (maybe even MDF) on the steel door to increase the door's STL, in addition to rubber gaskets/sealants. in other words, i'm working on the weak link(s) of my outer room first, so my inner room design will be more effective, and need not be over designed.
still, you and i have to deal with two primary challenges: soundproofing, and room treatment, budget notwithstanding. most people only care about not annoying the neighbors. but if you're tracking, you can only do so much in the mix.
just the same, keep your ideas coming. i especially like your sketch-ups! great fodder for sir mike's best practices. am learning a ton! now if only i can use that mass. ;)
Post by: peeves24 on December 11, 2008, 04:23:42 PM
im scraping my previous ideas to fully maximize my space. hindi ko na hahatiin pa yung isang kakarampot na room para maging 2 smaller rooms.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3287/3100016252_0671ec7e22.jpg)
obviously i'll need:
- double doors for the tracking room
- redo my existing ceiling including the adjacent room (master's bedroom slash pseudo control room)
- add a new isolated ceiling in the tracking room
- i WONT add a glass window between my tracking room and control room
i know for sure i cant afford a split type aircon at the moment kaya lalagyan ko na lang ng provision para sa send/receive ducts. there must be one big window (or two small windows) on the western side of the tracking room for fresh air. dual purpose kasi yung room, regular bedroom pa rin sya kung hindi ako magdrudrums. isasara ko lang yung windows kapag gusto ko magtrack.
but just for the interest of saving my budget for other things, doable kaya to?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3170/3100016250_d5ed8ce74c.jpg)
less materials needed and isolation wont be as good pero at least hindi liliit yung tracking room.
nadiscuss na kung san makakabili ng gypsum, rockwool/fiberglass insulation, pati steel framing pero wala nagbabangit tungkol sa labor. can you guys refer people who do steel framing and drywall installation? tipong laborer, i cant afford the extra overhead of hiring a pro company unless of course they are affordable enough *hint hint* pag naghire ng contractor hindi na DIY so OT na ko :-D
gusto ko na simulan sa first week ng january, i probably have more than enough budget to finish framing, put up 2 layers of dry wall and rework the ceiling and electrical wiring (estimate ko lang ha, sana may makausap na ko na gagawa hehehe). yung ibang items like acquiring solid core doors, lighting, room treatments, pati yung pagpaint ng rooms can wait.
Post by: botbenz on December 12, 2008, 07:19:01 PM
offhand, my concerns/questions are:
1) why do you need to redo the ceiling of the adjacent room?
2) i, too, considered air intake/outtake ducts. but i thought, "what if the intake cannot cool the room enough"? considering that 80% of my room's use will be casual, leisurely, non-tracking use, i thought it best to be able to cool the room. what would you do if your ducts cannot sufficiently cool the room?
if i were in your shoes, i'd probably buy a small window-type aircon, install it where you plan to have windows, then enclose the window/aircon in a small, shallow, sealable closet. so when the room is cooled, and it's time to track, i can turn-off the a/c, put a thick blanket over the a/c to effectively muffle noise coming from the a/c duct, then shut the closet tight. it's a little unorthodox, but that's what we budget-constrained DIYers do. :D of course, it's just an idea. the masters get the last hack. ;)
metal framing-wise, i am doing mine myself. bought a snipper (scissors) and a riveter. i bought the materials--studs, tracks, carrying channels, rivets, etc.--but will probably get someone else to do the ceiling. i could help you, but i am quite expensive, especially for someone without experience! :D
Post by: peeves24 on December 13, 2008, 07:46:45 PM
im redoing the ceiling to reduce flanking paths. besides, i really do need to replace the current ceiling due to lack of insulation. pasok na pasok yung init sa tanghali e.
ah the intake/outtake ducts i mentioned is for the split type AC that i will install later.
i'd do the work myself kung walang tatangap, so far naubos ko na yung mga nakita kong contractors sa yellow pages at wala pang ni-isa na pumayag magcommit.
speaking of paying other people to do something, it's been a week already and i think i visited more than 30 small time furniture/woodwork shops and nobody wants to build me my simple mixing/computer desk. frustrating, so i just decided to buy a circular saw and get my hands dirty again...more work, even less time :cry:
Post by: botbenz on December 14, 2008, 06:35:06 AM
i downloaded a sketchup model of an argosy desk from google's 3d warehouse, which i may tweak, or i might mash-up various design elements i have seen. am curious to see a sketchup of your desk design.
do you have plans to convert your master's into a control room too? because if i were on a tight budget, i'd use your master's as an "electrical room"; that is, for keeping noisy devices--computer, storage drives, etc. then, i'd monitor/mix in your tracking room, which has already been acoustically treated. that way, you don't have to acoustically treat your master's bedroom; not immediately, anyway. in other words, a tracking/control room, but not simultaneously, and without splitting the room, like your original design. anyway, my two cents, which may save you more. ;)
i can refer you to my contractor, but i can't guarantee that you'll come to an agreement. ;)
Post by: peeves24 on December 15, 2008, 08:58:08 AM
pm sent
Post by: botbenz on December 15, 2008, 09:56:51 PM
i have contacted my contractor, who has agreed to talk to you. i'll pm you his contact info.
Post by: alien_inside on December 23, 2008, 10:06:30 PM
Post by: alien_inside on December 24, 2008, 04:37:18 AM
I'm planning to add three plyboards ( 3/4" ) ( 2'x6' each and a 2'x4' para sa gitna ) at the backwall, spaced 1 inch from the real wall. pwede ba ito to serve as bass traps? what are the possible freqs?
nahingi ko lang yung mga yun sa munisipyo... stage designs kaya may abstract paintings...
thanks...
Post by: peeves24 on December 24, 2008, 01:39:56 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3248/3132761140_6b73f9dd49_o.jpg)
i will put 16kg rockwool or glass fiber as insulation above the existing ceiling frame. the ceiling frame is made from 2x2 wood. then i'll put resilient channels before i mount 2 layers of 1/2" gypsum
what's the ideal distance between resilient channels? 24" centers ba for ceilings? im going to use RC2 but i dont know where to get them. jeasteel is only offering regular hat channels. i havent checked wilcon yet
Post by: botbenz on December 26, 2008, 11:14:32 PM
Any mineral wool dealer here in Philippines? kahit china-made para mas mura...there are several kinds of mineral fiber, the most popular are fiberglass and rockwool.
a friend of mine claimed to have found a rockwool supplier on sulit.com.ph, so you can try your luck there.
i, on the other hand, googled it and found the local distributor of http://www.csr-in-asia.com/ (http://www.csr-in-asia.com/), which is http://www.eco-web.com/register/00043.html (http://www.eco-web.com/register/00043.html).
hope this helps.
Post by: botbenz on December 26, 2008, 11:17:53 PM
question:bass traps are generally made of absorptive materials, such as mineral fibers, NOT reflective materials like the plyboards you got.
I'm planning to add three plyboards ( 3/4" ) ( 2'x6' each and a 2'x4' para sa gitna ) at the backwall, spaced 1 inch from the real wall. pwede ba ito to serve as bass traps? what are the possible freqs?
Post by: botbenz on December 26, 2008, 11:42:43 PM
safe ba to?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3248/3132761140_6b73f9dd49_o.jpg)
i will put 16kg rockwool or glass fiber as insulation above the existing ceiling frame. the ceiling frame is made from 2x2 wood. then i'll put resilient channels before i mount 2 layers of 1/2" gypsum
what's the ideal distance between resilient channels? 24" centers ba for ceilings? im going to use RC2 but i dont know where to get them. jeasteel is only offering regular hat channels. i havent checked wilcon yet
@peeves24! as you know, i am a DIYer like you, and a fairly new one at that. that said, my newbie understanding is that resilient channels are generally used for walls. most of the RCs i have seen are screwed or riveted on only one flange (i.e., one side/edge of the RC), which is structurally fine because the load/weight is borne by the panel itself. in other words, the RC acts more as a brace, hence, does not directly support the entire weight of the wall panels.
i'm afraid that putting the weight of the ceiling panels on resilient channels may cause the "freestanding" end of the RC to sag. to compound the problem, you are putting additional weight of rockwool, RCs and two layers of ceiling panels on old wooden ceiling frame that probably was not designed to support that kind of weight. so my newbieness thinks it's not safe.
i personally liked your room within a room idea better; your "isolation booth" within the room. but, as always, the experts have the ultimate say.
Post by: rolexm on December 28, 2008, 02:36:59 PM
I read that there should be an insulator, barrier, and that pattern thing (usually egg cartons)
I do not want to spend too much. The cheaper the better.
It would be greatly appreciated if you guys could text me at 0906 420 3994. Maybe some of you are selling these materials.
Thank you.
-Rob (Actually a guitarist with a full set of equipment)
Post by: botbenz on December 30, 2008, 10:07:23 AM
you can start in the right direction by forgetting about egg trays--the most pervasive myth in acoustics. ;) they will do little to keep noise out.
in general, soundproofing requires: 1) air tightness; 2) mass; and 3) isolation
if you want quick answers, read many of mikep's posts, which is treasure trove of best practices!
may your 2009 be happy and adequately soundproofed. ;)
Post by: peeves24 on January 08, 2009, 03:40:55 PM
insulation - 15k total --> that's for 13 rolls of rockwool
gypsum - 12k total --> 41 sheets of 1/2"
light steel framing - 15k --> 74 pieces of horizontal tracks, joists and vertical members
solid core doors - 6k --> 2 doors
split type aircon - 25k
of course hindi pa accounted yung door frames na aabot siguro ng 3k. hindi ko pa rin nagawa yung estimate ng electrical wiring at isolation transformer (somewhere around 20k). not to mention yung mic wires at patch cables na madaling lalampas ng 10k.
then other essentials like bass traps, gobos and room furniture and did i mention i need to buy a new drum kit?
a 4x2 feet bass trap cost about 1500 but i need 10 pieces so that's another cool 15k. since i'll be using a single room/control room/tracking room, im going to need 2 4x2 gobos about 3k each
nalulula na ko but i do have a 1 year plan...and im starting with 6 bass traps muna hehehe to make my existing room bearable to mix in.
haaay over 100k for a 13x7x8 room
Post by: LouieAzcona on January 13, 2009, 11:06:14 AM
nireview ko kahapon ang thread na to... inspired by your replies...
kaso as always... kailangan isiksik sa maliit na budget ang project...
1. gaano po ba ka-effective mag-isolate ito: 1 layer gypsum + glass fiber batts + 1 layer gypsum.
2. saan po ba ako pwede bumili ng glass fiber batts? (mukang mahirap humanap eh) magkano siya at ano po ba ang pwedeng alternative?
maraming salamat!
Post by: botbenz on January 15, 2009, 04:17:23 AM
I've seen fiberglass batts sold in Home Depot.
Alternative is rockwool, which costs about P250 per 4'x2'x2" panel.
Hope this helps.
Post by: LouieAzcona on January 15, 2009, 10:48:38 AM
@LouieAzcona: From what I have read, insulation+2x drywall panels performs better (higher STL) than drywall+insulation+drywall, which is what you are contemplating.
I've seen fiberglass batts sold in Home Depot.
Alternative is rockwool, which costs about P250 per 4'x2'x2" panel.
Hope this helps.
so instead of 1 layer of drywall, gawin kong dalawa? tama po ba? bale magiging 4, 2lyaerdrywall+insulation+2layers?
ayos!!! balik na ako manila bukas,,, punta ako agad home depot. salamat po! :)
Post by: LouieAzcona on January 15, 2009, 04:53:38 PM
Post by: peeves24 on January 16, 2009, 09:27:07 AM
philippine insulation
pascor bldg pascor st brgy san antonio
sucat, paranaque near casino filipino
call 8517135
by the way, its cheap for me because i live in the south and if i factor in gas and toll gate fees, i would end up saving more if i buy 270 per panel there than look for the store with 250 per panel
also, please be aware that the 250 per panel price is for "rigid" rockwool. if you are going to use it for walls, you need blankets which is a little more expensive by a hundred plus pesos more.
update na rin sa studio build ko: nag start na ko sa room treatments muna
here are the first 2 of my bass traps. 2" thick rigid rockwool panels i got from imc traders at the alabang home depot for 300+ per panel
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3259/3199740387_9b8d3e714d.jpg)(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3446/3200586458_a38923b9b3.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3313/3199740615_aaf64e7596.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3350/3199740737_086f7f3904.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3413/3200586840_87b7a503d1.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/3200586946_f0cef4e24c.jpg)(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/3200587042_f485961bb4.jpg)
i really messed up my initial estimate of 1500 per panel because i thought i was going to use blankets which are 1150 per roll. yun pala dapat rigid type ang gagamitin so nakuha ko yung 2 panels at half the price nung blanket
total cost per bass trap is 845
wood 1x2x12 = 110
katsa = 45 per yard
rockwool = 318 per panel but will use 2 panels per trap
thumbtacks = 8.50 <- its too expensive to buy a staple gun
Post by: botbenz on January 16, 2009, 12:56:10 PM
so instead of 1 layer of drywall, gawin kong dalawa? tama po ba? bale magiging 4, 2lyaerdrywall+insulation+2layers?what i meant was, if you only have the budget for two layers of drywall, mas acoustically effective (better STL) yung magkadikit na two panels of drywall ("open" yung isang side) kesa sa sandwiched insulation.
Post by: botbenz on January 16, 2009, 01:04:51 PM
still, your progress is encouraging. go! para ganahan na rin ako!
Post by: mikep on January 17, 2009, 12:51:39 AM
what i meant was, if you only have the budget for two layers of drywall, mas acoustically effective (better STL) yung magkadikit na two panels of drywall ("open" yung isang side) kesa sa sandwiched insulation.
Not true. The better isolation construction is a double leaf wall but with a discontinued studding system and one leaf of the wall will have two gypsum wallboards together. Thus, the sequence will be 13mm gypsum on steel studs (steel studs with glass fiber blankets in the cavities) + 50 mm air gap (the bigger the air gap, the better isolation) + steel studs on a different floor plate (cavities filled with blanket glass fiber) + 2 pieces of 13mm wallboard (gypsum). You will achieve a very good STC, higher than the STC 35-39 of a double leaf wall with insulation.
Are you sure you are constructing a bass trap? The one you built seems to be more like a wideband absorber than a low frequency absorber, although the 4" thick dense rockwool would have an absorption characteristic that goes down to about 125 hz. A real bass trap should be one that would absorb real low frequencies. To do that, you would need a lot of space. To show, if you are trying to absorb 60 hz., you divide 1133/60 (speed of sound over frequency) and you would need about 18 feet of absorption to trap that frequency. At quarter wave, that is still about 4 to 5 feet of nothing but absorptive materials! The way professional studio designers do it is to build bass traps at the back of studios with hanging baffles on cavities with depths of 5 to 10 feet. The baffles in the cavities tend to absorb real low frequencies but you need a lot of space to do so. Studios done by Tom Hidley are characterized by these bass traps with large cavities.
To save on space, you can use LF panel absorbers (panels with perforations on a framed cavity) or Helmholtz resonators, but that is another story.
FWIW
Post by: botbenz on January 17, 2009, 05:49:04 PM
sir @mikep: what you suggested is, indeed, better. pero your suggestion po employs three panels of drywall. i guess yung punto ko po is if you can only use two panels, mas mabuti ba yung single leaf with two layers of drywall, or double leaf with single panel of drywall on each leaf?
@LouieAzcona: if you can afford three panels of drywall per section, then mikep's suggestion is definitely the way to go. avoid triple leaf!
yung sa akin kasi double leaf using 8" buhos concrete for the first leaf, 2" air cavity, 2" rockwool on metal frames, plus 2 layers of drywall glued with green glue. but i have only finished the concrete part. gagawin ko pa lang yung metal frames and drywall these next few months.
for your reference:
(http://www.greengluecompany.com/images/understandingTripleLeaf/drywall-leafs.gif)
and
(http://www.greengluecompany.com/images/understandingTripleLeaf/drywall-leafs2.gif)
Post by: LouieAzcona on January 18, 2009, 01:19:38 AM
Post by: mikep on January 19, 2009, 08:11:15 PM
i guess yung punto ko po is if you can only use two panels, mas mabuti ba yung single leaf with two layers of drywall, or double leaf with single panel of drywall on each leaf?
yung sa akin kasi double leaf using 8" buhos concrete for the first leaf, 2" air cavity, 2" rockwool on metal frames, plus 2 layers of drywall glued with green glue. but i have only finished the concrete part. gagawin ko pa lang yung metal frames and drywall these next few months.
for your reference:
(http://www.greengluecompany.com/images/understandingTripleLeaf/drywall-leafs.gif)
and
(http://www.greengluecompany.com/images/understandingTripleLeaf/drywall-leafs2.gif)
Double leaf with insulation would be better. If you have CHB as your first wall, then, 2" air gap + insulation on metal studs, then 2 pcs or 3 pcs. gypsum would be good. You are using air (2") as part of your insulation.
Avoid 3 or 4 drawings. Better to use 1 pc. gypsum on metal studs with insulation, 2" air gap, metal studs with insulation, then 2 or 3 pcs. gypsum is better. Again, you use the cavity to trap unwanted soundswaves for soundproofing. Also, the bigger your cavity, say 4" air gap, the better, but you will be using up a lot of precious real estate. The bigger the cavity the lower frequency you will be able to trap from going inside your room. Room acoustics is a different issue altogether, with a different of design for diffusers, absorbers and reflectors.
FWIW
Post by: peeves24 on January 20, 2009, 07:15:45 AM
@peeves24:am still on vacation mode, recovering from the cost of building the outer room of my room within a room. ;) my consuelo for the moment is the arrival yesterday of three cases of green glue via balikbayan box.
still, your progress is encouraging. go! para ganahan na rin ako!
wow ang mahal nun! hehehe
Are you sure you are constructing a bass trap? The one you built seems to be more like a wideband absorber than a low frequency absorber, although the 4" thick dense rockwool would have an absorption characteristic that goes down to about 125 hz. A real bass trap should be one that would absorb real low frequencies. To do that, you would need a lot of space. To show, if you are trying to absorb 60 hz., you divide 1133/60 (speed of sound over frequency) and you would need about 18 feet of absorption to trap that frequency. At quarter wave, that is still about 4 to 5 feet of nothing but absorptive materials! The way professional studio designers do it is to build bass traps at the back of studios with hanging baffles on cavities with depths of 5 to 10 feet. The baffles in the cavities tend to absorb real low frequencies but you need a lot of space to do so. Studios done by Tom Hidley are characterized by these bass traps with large cavities.
To save on space, you can use LF panel absorbers (panels with perforations on a framed cavity) or Helmholtz resonators, but that is another story.
FWIW
bass trap of sorts :-D a lot of people call them bass traps so i go with the flow. i do understand what you mean about the relationship of the thickness of the absorber and the full wave that it can contain but space is really an issue.
im incorporating a helmholtz resonator at the backwall to absorb 62hertz. what's going to happen is that the gypsum on the backwall will be installed at the back of the insulation. then i'll be putting up a 1/2" plywood on top as finishing.
now by the looks of it, its going to be a 3leaf system but in fact, its a combined hemlholtz resonator and floating wall. im going to be able to save about 4 to 5 inches of space for this treatment but the big question is will it work? will it also compromise my isolation?
diagram to follow...
Post by: alien_inside on January 22, 2009, 01:14:09 AM
Post by: botbenz on January 22, 2009, 01:29:03 AM
fiberglass is 2x more expensive than rockwool.@peeves24: are you comparing prices based on density?
because i saw this in home depot last month:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3367/3215106845_620c69fbe2.jpg)
Post by: peeves24 on January 22, 2009, 10:19:21 AM
@alien - CSR does not sell directly to individuals, you have to pay a visit to one of their dealers. but yes, do call them first and ask for the dealer nearest your place
Post by: botbenz on January 22, 2009, 11:14:14 PM
i did not consider fiberglass insulation because most of the studios i have browsed on the web used rockwool. but when i finished building my outer room, i realized that the poured concrete walls attenuated external noise rather sufficiently, hence, allowing me to scale down the specs for my inner room build.
in fact, i contemplated doing away with the rockwool insulation in the metal frame, and just settling for the 4" air cavity as insulation. it would've saved me p30k in rockwool cost. but i thought that mineral fiber would help reduce resonance. so now, i am thinking of using fiberglass behind the drywall, then using rigid rockwool for in-room absorption--bass traps, broadband absorbers, etc. that's my plan, for the moment.
Post by: alien_inside on January 23, 2009, 02:29:39 AM
@alien - CSR does not sell directly to individuals, you have to pay a visit to one of their dealers. but yes, do call them first and ask for the dealer nearest your place
they called me...and ask me about my order... so they sell to individuals...THEY ALSO SHIP to your doorstep. but you pay shipping/truck/delivery... ako i have to pick up kasi shipping will cost more than fare.
Post by: LouieAzcona on January 24, 2009, 03:09:38 AM
paano ko papapapasukin ung hangin ng WINDOW type aircon ko papunta sa booth ko? pipes? fan? posible po ba yun? naaawa na kasi ako sa sarili ko at kung anu anong weird na ideas ang naiisip ko. haha! hindi ko naman kaya bumili ng split type. not now.
by the way... may mga nakikita akong portable na aircon sa ace hardware... pwede bang gamitin yun para magkaroon ng ventilation ung booth? hindi naman sa bibilhin ko siya kapag sinabi niyong "oo" haha... curious lang po. salamat!
Post by: botbenz on January 25, 2009, 02:14:32 AM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/3223137810_875fb2ab2e.jpg)
make ducts that you can't peer into. and line the duct with sound proofing insulation.
but if you want to go dirt cheap, you can try to open/close method: open booth door during practice or breaks, close during recording. ;) inexpensive, but can be disruptive; not something you want to do often, especially when the artist is on a roll or is "in the zone".
Post by: LouieAzcona on January 26, 2009, 01:31:07 PM
@LouieAzcona, i can't speak from experience as i have never tried this. but you might want to try a simpler version of this, from rod gervais' home recording studio construction book:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/3223137810_875fb2ab2e.jpg)
make ducts that you can't peer into. and line the duct with sound proofing insulation.
but if you want to go dirt cheap, you can try to open/close method: open booth door during practice or breaks, close during recording. ;) inexpensive, but can be disruptive; not something you want to do often, especially when the artist is on a roll or is "in the zone".
tns sir botbenz. tama tama... ayaw ko nga ung "open close" so "medyo" may sense din naman pala ang binabalak ko. hahaha. dalawang daanan pala ang kailangan no? isang paloob at isang palabas? ano yan? para makahinga yung tao sa loob?
Post by: alien_inside on January 29, 2009, 08:30:09 AM
8 pcs per pack: 1200mm x 600mm x 50mm; 50kg/ Cubic meter
napakamura: P1520 per pack, or P190 per pc. its CSR Rockwool
Look at photos...
(http://www.friendster.com/image-server.php/07/18/88488170/private_1_d2bf1c3c3a0e4c2b8dd8e776a24cf190064b8a90a211f556bd730aa9fd3bf7e6l.jpg)
(http://www.friendster.com/image-server.php/07/18/88488170/private_1_6bceb9df3d06436466c9d9668f311ecd695aff0ef64ac882073999c83c363055l.jpg)
Post by: rakrakan on January 29, 2009, 06:34:27 PM
8 pcs per pack: 1200mm x 600mm x 50mm; 50kg/ Cubic meter
napakamura: P1520 per pack, or P190 per pc. its CSR Rockwool
dude, RIGID rockwool ito? thanks for the info.
Post by: alien_inside on January 29, 2009, 08:51:16 PM
dude, RIGID rockwool ito? thanks for the info.
go to: www.csr-in-asia.com for info. 771 0650 look for gina hynson.... or any branch near you
edited: dito sa pinas.... states? no idea... uwi ka na lang sir...
Post by: botbenz on February 23, 2009, 05:24:53 PM
my question: in the absence (i can only seem to find them in the u.s. and they are not cheap) of industrial sway braces (like those made by mason industries), what sort of DIY sway brace would you recommend?
thank you. let's get this thread humming again!
Post by: mikep on February 25, 2009, 12:40:17 AM
Post by: peeves24 on March 02, 2009, 11:21:28 AM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3579/3321603286_045f96a66a.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3594/3321603276_2f2d82f35d.jpg)
tapos na sya kaya lang nakalimutan ko kunan ng pic yung finished product. wrapped in katsa tulad din nung first 2 traps na ginawa ko. i had a lot of leftover aluminum window screen so i decided to use them as back support for the rockwool.
the ceiling treatment is still a work in progress.
bumili na rin ako ng staple gun -- ANG SARAP GAMITIN hehehe saved me a lot of time and effort.
Post by: tranquildomain on March 16, 2009, 11:02:36 PM
Thanks to sir mikep, botbenz and the rest for giving us DIY newbies ideas on how to treat/ perceive sound proofing! (back to research muna!)
Post by: botbenz on March 24, 2009, 02:06:55 AM
speaking of which, while i was researching hvac, i stumbled upon a forum, http://www.hvacphilippines.com/forum/ (http://www.hvacphilippines.com/forum/), which is pretty much self-explanatory! they've been helpful so far.
Post by: mikep on March 24, 2009, 03:59:15 PM
good luck.
Post by: botbenz on March 24, 2009, 06:01:06 PM
your suggestion though (to terminate the "exhaust" duct from the recording booth into a "dummy space" that is neither the control or recording booths) is interesting. i thought of terminating it by the intake of the split-type a/c. but your suggestion will definitely be quieter!
@tranquildomain: we're mostly newbies here, including me and peeves24. we're all learning from one another other, but none moreso than from master mikep!
Post by: pizarro84 on March 24, 2009, 11:36:44 PM
Ok po ba itong plan na ito or will this adversely affect the acoustics of our drums (naka full mic setup po yung drums namin)? by the way may manipis na layer po ng uratex foam (3/4") sa likod yung drumset namin so ma-enclose din po yun sa aquarium.
Eto rin po yung estimated size nung aquarium: 8'x10'x10' (LWH)
thanks po! :-)
Post by: mikep on March 25, 2009, 12:48:49 AM
Good luck.
Post by: botbenz on March 25, 2009, 01:34:45 AM
yeah, i know: building a drum cage would be cheaper, and there's nothing like a real kit. but we all know who the real church superstar is, right? so no need to upstage him.
besides, the better e-drums have a remarkably good feel. then again, buying one will require that you pass the collection basket more often. ;)
building a cage in a church is not the studio nut's idea of "room within a room". :D
and a church cage is only necessary because sinners are not forgiving. ;)
Post by: pizarro84 on March 25, 2009, 12:02:52 PM
Acrylic drum cages never really worked. The only purpose really is "para mabingi ang drummer, hindi niya masyadong paluin ang drums." If you want to build an isolated drum booth, build 4 walls and a celing with high STC ratings and at the same time absorb a lot of the energy from the drum set. How? Put a lot of absorptive material like 2 and 4 inch thick 48 kgm glass fiber covered with textile as acoustical finish. Also, there should be some sort of a ceiling as well as a door to trap all the sound energy inside the drum cage. Combine absorptive as well as diffusive elements. Helmholtz resonators should be used also to take care of the LF - normally placed towards the back of the drum kit; back of drummer - to make the LF attack sound tight. Control as much 125 hz and lower freq as you can. That will make your kick sound solid. Use the mics and the eqs of your mixer for the final sound. The drum cage will still have a substantial leakage but a least it will not be as loud and you can control everything from your mix position.
Good luck.
Haha I remember sir you quoting that same line in a seminar kaya po we decided to aquarium our drums na kasi pag yung PA owner na drummer namin ang pumapalo walang effect :-D anyway thank you very much for your insights and recommendations sir mike, we'll include them in our plans for the drum cage.
since mikep already gave you pretty much all that you need to know to build a drum cage, i'll take a different tack: use electronic drums.
yeah, i know: building a drum cage would be cheaper, and there's nothing like a real kit. but we all know who the real church superstar is, right? so no need to upstage him.
besides, the better e-drums have a remarkably good feel. then again, buying one will require that you pass the collection basket more often. ;)
building a cage in a church is not the studio nut's idea of "room within a room". :D
and a church cage is only necessary because sinners are not forgiving. ;)
Regarding your recommendations for e-drums, mahal po kasi ang magandang e-drums and we have a limited budget considering the location of our church (hindi po Alabang or Makati based ang church namin but rather a moderate sized church in San Pedro), and being a musician myself, as with all of the Praise and Worship members would agree, we would not settle for anything less and since maganda na po tunog nung acoustic drums namin, paparaanan na lang po namin maatenuate yung volume nung drums para total control sa PA. Salamat din sir sa recommendations.
@peeves24
thanks pala sir sa recommendations nyo as to where can I purchase rockwool.
Post by: peeves24 on March 25, 2009, 12:17:13 PM
by the way, electronic drums are cheaper than building a 'room'
halos magkasinglaki yung room na gagawin nyo sa room ko kaya pwede ka magbrowse back ng ilang pages dito sa thread para makita mo yung costing ko.
a decent electronic drumkit from the music source or hifi lounge go for only 20k++
with ample scrap drum parts, you can also build your own electronic drums for a little less than 5k. you only need to buy a module about 8k or less. this diy kit will feel like a real kit too.
san pedro ka lang naman, nasa munti lang ako papuntang bilibid. if you are interested in building an edrum, i can help plus i already have an unfinished setup at home. di ko na lang tinapos kasi meron na ko matinong acoustic ulit. drop by if you want to check the unfinished kit and i can also demo it to you
Post by: pizarro84 on March 25, 2009, 12:52:07 PM
pizarro dude no prob
by the way, electronic drums are cheaper than building a 'room'
halos magkasinglaki yung room na gagawin nyo sa room ko kaya pwede ka magbrowse back ng ilang pages dito sa thread para makita mo yung costing ko.
a decent electronic drumkit from the music source or hifi lounge go for only 20k++
with ample scrap drum parts, you can also build your own electronic drums for a little less than 5k. you only need to buy a module about 8k or less. this diy kit will feel like a real kit too.
san pedro ka lang naman, nasa munti lang ako papuntang bilibid. if you are interested in building an edrum, i can help plus i already have an unfinished setup at home. di ko na lang tinapos kasi meron na ko matinong acoustic ulit. drop by if you want to check the unfinished kit and i can also demo it to you
Pero sir peeves nakarinig na kasi ako ng magandang e-drum (yung sa church sa alabang, south city) talagang synthetic po kasi ang tunog parrang iisa ang timbre ng bawat palo t maliit ang dynamic range (di ko pa siya nakikita alam kong synthetic na). Sa band po kasi namin isa sa important aspects ng music is yung dynamics, wala po kasi kaming problem sa solemn songs pero yun nga lang pag malakas na ang tugtugan di na makontrol :-D masarap naman po pumalo ang mga drummer namin at mahuhusay gumamit ng acoustic drums pero yun nga lang po iba iba kasi ang style nila sa pag palo so pag yung malakas pumalo na ang nakasalang nao-overpower ng reflections nung drums yung PA (plywood po kasi yung roof ng drum side). Anyway di naman po namin plan i-isolate totally yung sound na wala nang maririnig, yung ma-lessen lang yung volume to about an eighth of the current volume. actually ang budget po namin para dito is 4-5K lang so I was thinking some gypsum boards and rockwool dun sa mismong cage. Pero anyway tingnan ko rin sir yung costing nyo..
I was also thinking baka pwede rin naman po namin ma-reach yung goal namin na attenuation ng walang cage, but rather lagyan ng D.I.Y. absorption pannels sa reflective surfaces, tutal mataas naman po yung acrylic pannels namin at mejo makapal, 5' high and 1/2" thick, so dalawa po yun covering 100% yung front nung drumset, tapos nasa corner po ng wall yung drums tapos may uratex foam sa likod. Kung palitan po namin ng rockwool yung likod and side wall ng drums, and lagyan po namin yung adjacent wooden wall sa rear wall and yung ceiling, gagana po ba yun? or do I need to put other materials sa specific locations? Ang naiisip ko lang po kasi na available at affordable acoustic materials na pwede namin magamit is rockwool and gypsum board..
Post by: peeves24 on March 25, 2009, 01:34:50 PM
im assuming na walang mics yung current setup nyo. kapag isolated ng todo yung drummer, gagastos ka rin sa micing ng drums kasi sobrang pangit naman ng acoustic sound mo. kawawa din yung drummer kasi mahihirapan sya kung walang monitors. kaya mag iinvest ka rin ng headphone amp setup or powered speakers para lang sa drummer.
the mics and the wires alone will cost more than a diy edrum kit hehehe
haaay daming compromise talaga. give up na rin ako sa affordable solutions sa drum sound control. mukang wala ata talagang affordable sa mundong ito pagdating sa acoustics :-D
Post by: pizarro84 on March 25, 2009, 04:43:56 PM
walang effect yun kasi technically nasa open space pa rin yung drums mo
im assuming na walang mics yung current setup nyo. kapag isolated ng todo yung drummer, gagastos ka rin sa micing ng drums kasi sobrang pangit naman ng acoustic sound mo. kawawa din yung drummer kasi mahihirapan sya kung walang monitors. kaya mag iinvest ka rin ng headphone amp setup or powered speakers para lang sa drummer.
the mics and the wires alone will cost more than a diy edrum kit hehehe
haaay daming compromise talaga. give up na rin ako sa affordable solutions sa drum sound control. mukang wala ata talagang affordable sa mundong ito pagdating sa acoustics :-D
Ah ganun ba sir? Kelangan pala talaga i-isolate. Anyway naka full mic setup na kasi kami as of now at lately naka headphone monitors na yung mga drummer namin. Anyway salamat sa mga payo sir mukhang talagang kelangan namin gumawa ng drum room. :-)
Post by: botbenz on March 25, 2009, 06:46:50 PM
and then, if i go with a two room set-up, i am torn between doing double walls and double sliding doors, or one shared wall on staggered studs and one sliding door. double walls are better isolated, but cost more and eat up precious real estate.
decisions, decisions.
anybody here know of a supplier of sliding doors that are suited for studios (i.e., adequately gasketed, gaps minimized)? i would've preferred a window and door combo for better isolation, but they also make the rooms appear smaller. darn these trade-offs.
Post by: peeves24 on March 25, 2009, 08:22:00 PM
Post by: botbenz on March 26, 2009, 01:27:07 AM
Post by: peeves24 on March 26, 2009, 03:33:49 PM
ano ginamit mo na sway brace sa ceiling joist?
Post by: mikep on March 26, 2009, 04:21:07 PM
i asked around about those sliding doors too. blanko lahat ng muka ng mga nakausap ko na glass/aluminum shops hehehe
You need a pair of sliding doors - with at least 16 inches of air space as soundlock. Then, the sliding door system as an isolating wall will work. Otherwise, it will be waste of money even if you have things like mohair, weather stripping anf thick glass (at least 3/8") in it.
FWIW
Post by: botbenz on March 26, 2009, 05:15:31 PM
afaik, neoprene or spring sway braces and hangers are not available in the philippines. and even if you can find them, they'd probably expensive for the average DIYer. so what i did, taking a page from mikep, is i made my own sway braces and hangers. i'll post pictures this weekend. stay tuned!
Post by: peeves24 on March 27, 2009, 08:20:48 AM
Post by: botbenz on March 29, 2009, 07:07:38 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3394094849_99e86d7291.jpg)
the object on the right is what is called ISOMax wall clips. they are used to clip resilient channels. check out http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax/index.aspx (http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax/index.aspx) for more details.
one alternative i found is shown on the left in the above photo, which is one of four aircon support "legs" made by perfect view (the same makers of wall mounts for speakers, display panels, etc.) four of these are designed to support a split-type aircon condenser. the inch-thick rubber (or maybe neoprene) block is supposed to dampen the a/c condenser's vibration from the floor. i plan to use some of these as suspended hangers, to support ceiling carrying channels and furrings. the challenge is in finding them. i must've gone to at least half a dozen stores (ace, true value, handyman, etc.) and only found two sets of these (eight pieces). each set costs P600+.
due to constraints in image uploads, i will have several posts regarding my DIY sway braces.
Post by: botbenz on March 29, 2009, 07:15:27 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3394940804_9bda0e49e1.jpg)
i liked them, in spite of the price. but i did not have the luxury of waiting two months (one month to fill a balikbayan box, and another month to ship) for me to finish my steel framing. besides, the batten-type furring shown above is not as widely available as steel studs, tracks, channels, etc. and hat-type furrings (typically used for roofs) don't fit and take up too much space. lastly, isomax clips seem best suited for holding resilient channels, not function as sway braces per se. so i considered building a sway brace myself.
again, i don't mean to post-pad, but this forum keeps me from posting several large photos in one post. so stay tuned for more! ;)
Post by: botbenz on March 29, 2009, 07:26:25 PM
i patterned mine after this: http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/images/psb.jpg (http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/images/psb.jpg)
mine is obviously home-made:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3595/3394904658_99900c419d.jpg)
i will describe my build next.
Post by: botbenz on March 29, 2009, 07:38:34 PM
1) the brace/bracket itself;
2) the fasteners, which attach the brace to two objects, typically two wall framing members;
3) the isolators - typically neoprene pads that decouple the members from one another.
in my DIY sway brace shown in the previous post, i riveted two steel angles together into a metal bracket, shown below:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3596/3394094609_4a0c280b5b.jpg)
steel angles are widely available. they are typically used to support ceiling c-channels to the ceiling joists via steel suspension rods. for typical steel framing, this suffices. but for studio purposes, the serially connected steel members short-circuit the frame to the ceiling/joists above. that's where the isolators come in, described next.
Post by: botbenz on March 29, 2009, 08:03:50 PM
the isolators are a combination of rubber washers and an inch-thick "washer" i made out of commercial elastomer products, shown separately below.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3590/3394094541_0d5d460a6d.jpg)
yes, i could've used a stack of five or six rubber washers, instead of this "hacked washer". but rubber, especially when exposed to heat, or oil-based products, can deteriorate. so i made one out of elastomer. the sample shown above is made of silicone. the others i made subsequently are made of super vulcaseal, which i learned is made of polychloroprene (aka neoprene). these elastomers are supposed to last longer than natural rubber.
i use rubber washers for the less load-bearing parts of the sway brace. but for the part that is supposed to act as sway brace's main spring, i use my hacked washer.
the blue pvc pipe you see is just used to contain the elastomer, so i can make inch-thick cylindrical washers. and the pvc pipe will keep the washer's "love handles" from bulging out during sway compression. the metal washer pressing the elastomer is smaller than the diameter of the pvc, so there is no rigid contact between the two.
next up, the installed sway brace.
Post by: botbenz on March 29, 2009, 08:37:39 PM
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3449/3394094767_85a8b6d407.jpg)
this was the first sway brace i installed. even the "washers" are made of elastomers. they don't look as neat as the rubber washers i used later, but the elastomer washers still do the job of decoupling the parts from one another. the shadow behind the metal brace indicate that the brace is not in contact with the wall. similarly, the bolts are also not in contact with the sway brace, because i enlarged the brace holes and filled them with elastomer, effectively creating bushings.
i am, however, not deluded into thinking that "no contact" means isolation. an overloaded spring is as good as no spring, hence, short circuited connection. but because sway braces are not as load-bearing as ceiling hangers, i am less concerned. i plan to use perfect view's a/c support as hangers, unless a better alternative comes up.
if you have more discriminating needs, i suggest you spring for (pun intended :-D) industrial sway braces, or hire a pro like mikep. i only shared mine, with no intention of advocating it. diy at our own risk. i am certainly willing to live with my hack, for my non-commercial "listening room".
hope this was somewhat helpful! good luck, fellow diyers.
Post by: mikep on March 30, 2009, 06:04:20 PM
Post by: britesynth on May 04, 2009, 10:13:41 AM
http://www.palmcitystudios.com/timobrien/music/soundbooth/simplesoundbooth.html (http://www.palmcitystudios.com/timobrien/music/soundbooth/simplesoundbooth.html)
ano pwede substitute sa moving blankets?
thanks! :-D
Post by: botbenz on May 04, 2009, 10:41:00 AM
what you cited seems useful for controlling/absorbing reflections. but it certainly won't soundproof a room; that is, four of these do not make an isolation booth.
Post by: britesynth on May 04, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
for vocal recording purposes po sana...
untreated po room ko extra bedroom na walang gumagamit at dun ko nilagay "home studio" ko, dun na rin po kami nagrerecord ng vocs kaya tingin ko mejo muddy recordings ko... :|
ano po pwede substitute sa blankets? sa ibang forums auralex acoustic foams at se reflection filters gamit nila kaso costly at di ko lam san meron dito satin... kaya DIY na lang sana...
thanks sir!
Post by: botbenz on May 04, 2009, 11:21:06 AM
although not proven to be carcinogenic, you'll need to cover mineral fiber, if only to keep loose fibers from straying like cat hair. i don't know where once sources acoustically neutral or transparent fabric in manila. i suppose you can find burlap in divisoria, but that's just my guess.
if you have unused heavy drapes or carpets, i suppose those may do. be prepared to have a bohemian looking room though. ;)
Post by: britesynth on May 04, 2009, 11:31:03 AM
Post by: botbenz on May 04, 2009, 11:44:29 AM
Post by: britesynth on May 05, 2009, 12:05:08 PM
thanks!
Post by: juanberto on May 10, 2009, 12:40:22 PM
Post by: rakrakan on May 10, 2009, 02:54:26 PM
guys pwede ba gamitin yun uratex foam pang soundproof ng booth? yung parang may mga bukol. hehe. di ko alam pangalan e.
hindi pwede pang-soundproof ang foam. Pang sound-proof are mass heavy materials.
Pwedeng pang-sound control yan.
Iba ang sound control sa sound proof.
Post by: botbenz on May 10, 2009, 02:57:36 PM
i've seen it sir botbenz, hmnn ok lang ba if i'll be using fibers instead of the rigid rockwool? pareho lang ba effect nila?what matters more is the density of the fiber, which is usually measured in kilograms per cubic meter; generally, the more dense, the better the absorption characteristics
the advantage of rigid fiber is that it can stay more upright, requiring less bracing/sagging support. you don't want your fiber bulging out like a beer belly, unless you want people to think that the studio owner "created it in his own image." ;)
Post by: alien_inside on May 10, 2009, 08:33:20 PM
contact me or mark yulo... no additional charge. we are not agents...make sure lang you have pang-transpo...we are after the security of the company lang baka pag nagpost kami without their permission, e kami naman ang kawawa... hu hu.
Post by: britesynth on May 10, 2009, 10:24:28 PM
what matters more is the density of the fiber, which is usually measured in kilograms per cubic meter; generally, the more dense, the better the absorption characteristics
the advantage of rigid fiber is that it can stay more upright, requiring less bracing/sagging support. you don't want your fiber bulging out like a beer belly, unless you want people to think that the studio owner "created it in his own image." ;)
ahaha! ayt sir, thanks! :-D
Post by: juanberto on May 11, 2009, 09:49:52 PM
Post by: alien_inside on May 12, 2009, 02:58:32 AM
where to buy auralex bass traps? manila po.This will help you...
http://www.auralex.com/dealers/international.asp
Naghanap na rin ako noon... NONE OF THESE KEYWORDS helped me: Reseller, retailer, supplier, dealer, distributor, importer, etc etc...
Makahanap man ako, as in trip lang na makiki usyoso, pisil-pisil, amuy-amoy, tingin-tingin...tapos wala naman pala ako budget... kaya nagROCKWOOL ako...
Post by: palaka on May 14, 2009, 09:24:09 PM
simento ung buong sides pati bubong tapus plano ko po sana lagyan ng rockwool buong sides ng hindi lalagyan ng space tapus tatakpan ng accoustic tiles wala parin pong space tatalab po kaya iyon?salamat
Post by: botbenz on May 16, 2009, 01:13:29 AM
mga sir tanung lang po kung malaki po ba yung tunog na mababawas pag ganito ginawa?@palaka: ano ba ang objective mo? do you want to keep the noise in, so as not to disturb the neighbors? do you plan to use it as a practice room, tracking room, or mixing/mastering room? the relevance of your design depends on your goals.
simento ung buong sides pati bubong tapus plano ko po sana lagyan ng rockwool buong sides ng hindi lalagyan ng space tapus tatakpan ng accoustic tiles wala parin pong space tatalab po kaya iyon?salamat
for soundproofing, more mass generally yields higher sound transmission loss. so cement is good; acoustic tiles less so.
but soundproofing is only one aspect; acoustic treatment is the other. kung gusto mo lang na "malaking tunog ang mabawas", and care less about the acoustic quality, kahit nga cement lang, and placement of broadband absorber panels (rockwool framed and covered with fabric) in key locations might be good enough, saving you the expense and trouble of paneling your room with acoustic tiles. again, much depends on what you intend to accomplish.
Post by: palaka on May 16, 2009, 10:01:42 AM
@palaka: ano ba ang objective mo? do you want to keep the noise in, so as not to disturb the neighbors? do you plan to use it as a practice room, tracking room, or mixing/mastering room? the relevance of your design depends on your goals.ang gagawin ko nga po pala para sa tracking room
for soundproofing, more mass generally yields higher sound transmission loss. so cement is good; acoustic tiles less so.
but soundproofing is only one aspect; acoustic treatment is the other. kung gusto mo lang na "malaking tunog ang mabawas", and care less about the acoustic quality, kahit nga cement lang, and placement of broadband absorber panels (rockwool framed and covered with fabric) in key locations might be good enough, saving you the expense and trouble of paneling your room with acoustic tiles. again, much depends on what you intend to accomplish.
bali ang gusto ko po sana mangyari mabawasan ang tunong niya para habang may nag tratrack hindi marinig ang tunog sa mixing room.
yung ginawang simento yung lahat ng sides nabawasan ng 50% ang lumalabas natunog kaso ang naging problema ko naman po masyado siyang mareverb kaya pansamantala nilagyan ko ng tag two layers ng kortina yung dalawang sides gumana namn po malaki nabawas sa reverb.
Post by: alien_inside on May 16, 2009, 11:08:49 AM
ang gagawin ko nga po pala para sa tracking roomMay leak ng sound sa glass view window and door. Especially the door, sabi nga nila, the door is the weakest link...
bali ang gusto ko po sana mangyari mabawasan ang tunong niya para habang may nag tratrack hindi marinig ang tunog sa mixing room.
yung ginawang simento yung lahat ng sides nabawasan ng 50% ang lumalabas natunog kaso ang naging problema ko naman po masyado siyang mareverb kaya pansamantala nilagyan ko ng tag two layers ng kortina yung dalawang sides gumana namn po malaki nabawas sa reverb.
Make sure you have an AIR TIGHT View window... and the doors are THICK, filled with insulation.
Post by: peeves24 on June 09, 2009, 03:53:52 PM
3 months ko na ring iniisip gawin. kumpleto ako sa tools, may plans at may idea na ko sa mga templates at jig na gagawin para mapabilis yung pag cut ng kahoy pero wala ako initiative para simulan :-D
matrabaho kasi pero sigurado naman ako na magagawa ko sya
siguro naghahanap lang ako ng inspirasyon. kailangan ko pa naman ng 2 to 4 4x2 feet panels nun
Post by: mikep on June 09, 2009, 05:53:38 PM
may gumawa na ba ng QRD diffusors dito sa tin?
siguro naghahanap lang ako ng inspirasyon. kailangan ko pa naman ng 2 to 4 4x2 feet panels nun
We have been making QRD panels based on the 704 Schroeder model for a long time already. All the studios and home theaters I have made and make have these. I have also done 3 D diffuser panels. My carpenters do them well. I make the 8 inchers. Matrabaho lang nga kaya mahal.
FYI
Post by: Queroberos on June 19, 2009, 08:47:33 PM
Simpleng rehearsal studio lang. Ready built na yung room with concrete walls.
Gusto ko lang mag consult kung ano magandang ipatong sa walls and ceilings para ma minize yung lumalabas na sound.
Salamat ng marami :-D
Post by: tranquildomain on June 29, 2009, 12:06:36 PM
Post by: botbenz on June 30, 2009, 05:07:17 PM
may gumawa na ba ng QRD diffusors dito sa tin?@peeves!
i asked my brother, who supplies and sets up audiophile equipment (epoy of architectural audio). as it turns out, his QRD supplier is sir mikep, who has also built some of the home theaters of my brother's customers.
i have also contemplated a QRD DIY some time ago, and have done plenty of research. from a build perspective, 3D diffusors seem easier; more pieces but easier router-less cuts, and can be made from widely available materials. 2"x2" is easier to find than 3"x1/4", which is what i think 2D QRD minimally needs. i do not want to use 1/4" plywood because that tends to warp and, well, it looks like plywood. even if you can find 3"x1" wood, you'd have to plane it plenty to get it between 1/4" and 1/2" thickness. i thought about planing a wood moulding panel, but that isn't effort-free either. also, a good 2D QRD probably requires dado and rabbet joints, which requires more skill than 3D diffusors, which only requires "cut and paste". :)
heck, it is probably easier to build a helmholz resonator than a 2D QRD! :) much easier in the u.s. too, where you can source a wide variety of wood and dimensions.
let me know how you DIY goes. i will probably build a 3D diffusor for the ceiling, between the monitors and my sweet spot. then i'll ask you to buld my 2Ds. ;)
Post by: palaka on August 07, 2009, 10:46:54 PM
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/BAHOHERO/eggcrate1.jpg)
Post by: alien_inside on August 09, 2009, 12:22:31 AM
mga sir tanung ko lang po kung ok lang po bang maglagay ako ng ganto sa pinto ng tracking room para po makabawas sa lalabas na tunog? tnxThat won't help.
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/BAHOHERO/eggcrate1.jpg)
You need MASS. Make your door THICKER. Adding a layer of PLYWOOD or MDF will help.
Post by: palaka on August 09, 2009, 12:30:04 AM
Post by: melody_guitar on August 17, 2009, 05:37:52 AM
Post by: alien_inside on August 17, 2009, 10:04:06 AM
how can i eliminate the sound of the room when im recording vocals or guitars.. lalu na acoustic instrument? i just set up my gears in our living room/sala..
install broadband absorbers...or just thick curtains from ceiling to floor.
Post by: BAMF on August 21, 2009, 12:12:26 PM
mga sir tanung ko lang po kung ok lang po bang maglagay ako ng ganto sa pinto ng tracking room para po makabawas sa lalabas na tunog? tnx
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/BAHOHERO/eggcrate1.jpg)
Dude saan nakakabili nyan in bulk ? Hindi nakaka sound proof yan pero nakaka disperse/absorb ng high frequency yan magagamit ko din yan :-D
Post by: alien_inside on September 05, 2009, 02:44:09 AM
Dude saan nakakabili nyan in bulk ? Hindi nakaka sound proof yan pero nakaka disperse/absorb ng high frequency yan magagamit ko din yan :-D
alam ko meron sa Uratex EDSA, malapit sa kamuning...
Post by: fishcuts02 on September 10, 2009, 10:46:07 AM
Post by: mikep on September 10, 2009, 01:24:29 PM
FWIW
Post by: fishcuts02 on September 10, 2009, 05:09:48 PM
Post by: alien_inside on September 11, 2009, 09:24:28 AM
thanks sir mike. what im planning to do is install gypsum board on the wall(concrete) then carpet on the floor tapos ang problema ko e kung ano ang pwede ko ilagay sa ceiling which is just a thin wood tapos roof na. actually tumatakbo na kase rent ko sa lugar kaya i'm in dire need of someone to check my area before installing anything para sigurado sa result.post or inform me your address. i have a project studio and sound system to work on this mid sept in sorsogon. daanan ka namin together with some of my friendly carpenters if ever.
Post by: fishcuts02 on September 11, 2009, 09:39:04 AM
post or inform me your address. i have a project studio and sound system to work on this mid sept in sorsogon. daanan ka namin together with some of my friendly carpenters if ever.
pm sent sir allen. thanks! :-)
Post by: incubus32 on September 12, 2009, 08:55:55 PM
Post by: s2ry0fdyr on September 13, 2009, 09:01:55 AM
just want to share this product
Post by: alien_inside on September 13, 2009, 02:48:42 PM
hmmm... my bandmates are planning to built our own practice studio sana... madami na ngrereklamong kapitbahay tuwing mgjam kame ng gabi. wala kame idea how to soundproof and about treatments ng sound. ok na kame mareduce ung sound sa room. but yung room na gagamitin is wood lang... anu ba dapat? where to start? hay nakakahilo.Concrete Walls.
Post by: chromeknive on September 16, 2009, 08:24:16 PM
Man. I wish there was an easy and cheap way to do all the math required in tuning your room. Hanggang early reflections palang nati-treat ko e...and medyo trial and error with regards to the bass.
Post by: mikep on September 16, 2009, 09:52:54 PM
Do carpets really help in controlling reflections? Or is it enough that I put absorption on the ceiling?
Man. I wish there was an easy and cheap way to do all the math required in tuning your room. Hanggang early reflections palang nati-treat ko e...and medyo trial and error with regards to the bass.
Carpet has a different absorption coefficient than 1" or 2" glass fiber. To tame the rooms sound, you have to use a combination of all of these. The math will show you what you need in terms of what material to use as absorbers, reflectors and diffusers.
FWIW
Post by: chromeknive on September 17, 2009, 07:50:47 AM
Carpet has a different absorption coefficient than 1" or 2" glass fiber. To tame the rooms sound, you have to use a combination of all of these. The math will show you what you need in terms of what material to use as absorbers, reflectors and diffusers.
FWIW
hi sir mike. yeah i think i really want my room analyzed. would you know of anyone i can contact, besides yourself, to do just that?
also, how do acousticians charge? for consulting for instance?
Post by: mikep on September 17, 2009, 04:45:00 PM
FWIW
Post by: chromeknive on September 17, 2009, 08:33:12 PM
There is Dar Quintos of International Audio & Acoustics or Jiggs Hermano of Acoustics Analysis. I don't know how much they charge but you can be sure that their analysis is correct. There are some that offer similar services but I would go for these two guys. They know what they're doing (they know the math) and have the necessary equipment to do it properly - not just an SPL meter that you are not even sure if it is properly calibrated..
FWIW
thanks sir! i'll try and contact them when i find more info about them. hopefully may websites sila.
sir mike ah, if ever you're also open to doing smaller project studio analysis/consulting, my friends and i who are investing in a serious studio would love to hear from you. :-)
Post by: mikep on September 18, 2009, 12:38:24 AM
Post by: chromeknive on September 23, 2009, 12:38:56 AM
I do acoustic consultations also, design or supervision. Just holler and we'll schedule a meet up so I can assess your situation. Thanks for the interest.
awesome! hehe. i've been wanting to ask you sa totoo lang. i just mustered up the guts now. yehey. will email you nalang po. thanks so much! :-)
Post by: ixizmusic on December 13, 2009, 09:03:22 PM
at 641-9635.
They manufacture the metal frames for drywall themselves, gypsum boards, accessesories are also available there
Post by: akoyatasiemil on January 08, 2010, 01:41:24 AM
pahaba kasi ung apartment ko, pag pasok mo ng pinto may maliit na sala, may 2 same size na kwarto tapos may space sa dulo, tapos andun ung pinto ng cr. ("x" ung entrance ng apartment )
______
|___ |
| | |
|___| |
| | |
|___| |
| |
|_x___|
ang plano ko aalisin ko ung isang kwarto, tas ung isa gagawin kong vocal/drum booth.
______
|___ |
| | |
|___| |
| |
| |
| |
|_x___|
ang tanong ko ay kung ok lang ba na ung booth lang ung naka sound proof tas ung labas hindi na? :?
Post by: alien_inside on January 08, 2010, 02:04:05 AM
mga sir, question lang. :mrgreen:
pahaba kasi ung apartment ko, pag pasok mo ng pinto may maliit na sala, may 2 same size na kwarto tapos may space sa dulo, tapos andun ung pinto ng cr. ("x" ung entrance ng apartment )
______
|___ |
| | |
|___| |
| | |
|___| |
| |
|_x___|
ang plano ko aalisin ko ung isang kwarto, tas ung isa gagawin kong vocal/drum booth.
______
|___ |
| | |
|___| |
| |
| |
| |
|_x___|
ang tanong ko ay kung ok lang ba na ung booth lang ung naka sound proof tas ung labas hindi na? :?
JUST LIKE MINE.... BOOTH lang ang totally soundproofed... Control room is not that seriously soundproofed...kasi di naman mareklamo ang mga kapitbahay ko eh... enjoy nga sila eh... akoyataayalien....
Post by: akoyatasiemil on January 08, 2010, 02:18:15 AM
JUST LIKE MINE.... BOOTH lang ang totally soundproofed... Control room is not that seriously soundproofed...kasi di naman mareklamo ang mga kapitbahay ko eh... enjoy nga sila eh... akoyataayalien....
haha mga kainuman ko din mga kapit bahay ko kaya maiintindihan naman siguro nila (hopefully).
pero sir, di na gano rinig ung music(ingay) pag sa labas ng bahay nio?
Post by: botbenz on January 08, 2010, 03:36:26 PM
if all you need is noise reduction, then soundproofing the *tracking room* may suffice.
but if you want to monitor/mix, acoustically treating both rooms--tracking and control--is also important.
remember: soundproofing is different from acoustic treatment.
Post by: alien_inside on January 28, 2010, 01:37:00 AM
Post by: palaka on January 28, 2010, 09:03:29 PM
my booth is soundproofed, but not much acoustically treated... my control room is not that soundproof, but acoustically treated...sir panu po pang kakasoundproof nyo sa booth nyo 99% po ba na walang lumalabas na tunog?tnx
Post by: alien_inside on January 29, 2010, 08:16:28 AM
sir panu po pang kakasoundproof nyo sa booth nyo 99% po ba na walang lumalabas na tunog?tnxmeron pa rin. kasi bale total of 4 layers ng gypsum board lang ginamit ko. = 1/2inch plywd+2 gyp+2 inch rockwool+2 gyp+1/4inch plywd. sa DOOR nagli-leak yung sound tsaka sa view window. pero konting konti lang.... enough for me as isolation yung booth ko.
Post by: palaka on January 29, 2010, 03:32:15 PM
meron pa rin. kasi bale total of 4 layers ng gypsum board lang ginamit ko. = 1/2inch plywd+2 gyp+2 inch rockwool+2 gyp+1/4inch plywd. sa DOOR nagli-leak yung sound tsaka sa view window. pero konting konti lang.... enough for me as isolation yung booth ko.
sir yung sa booth po na yun nagrerecord din po ba kayo ng drums dun, sa door po anu pong ginawa nyong soundproof double door din po ba kayo sir?tnx
Post by: alien_inside on January 29, 2010, 11:06:09 PM
sir yung sa booth po na yun nagrerecord din po ba kayo ng drums dun, sa door po anu pong ginawa nyong soundproof double door din po ba kayo sir?tnxyes. same booth. pag LIVE recording, yung DRUMS lang ang nasa booth.
Post by: palaka on January 29, 2010, 11:42:14 PM
yes. same booth. pag LIVE recording, yung DRUMS lang ang nasa booth.
sa door at studio window anu pong soundproof ang ginawa nyo sir?
Post by: alien_inside on January 29, 2010, 11:52:47 PM
sa door at studio window anu pong soundproof ang ginawa nyo sir?door is ply wood. four layer. 1/2inh(2layer)+rockwool+1/2inch(2layer)ala pambili solid door eh. all aound is gypsum and rockwool.
Post by: lowriderthug on February 03, 2010, 01:46:45 PM
Need some help mga bro, panu ba ma-minimize ang reverb time? kasi our church is sounding like a Cathedral, uber kasi ang reverb sa loob. especialy kapag praise and worship, di na audible ang mga words ng singers, though were minimizing the sound of our instruments upstage and wedge monitors as well, kaso un mga ministers upstage naman ang nag susuffer, di sila magkaintindihan.
Need some advise mga sir.
eto po church namin.
(http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/lowriderthug/TEST1.jpg)
(http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/lowriderthug/TEST.jpg)
Post by: lowriderthug on February 05, 2010, 11:53:25 PM
Post by: alien_inside on February 06, 2010, 07:45:06 AM
-bump-bro, you need someone for an OCCULAR checkup first. and let his EARS suggest what is best for you.
Post by: mikep on February 06, 2010, 03:16:01 PM
-bump-
You need diffusers in the side, absorbers and diffusers in the back, diffusers and absorbers in the ceiling. It is a rather complicated process if you want to do it right. There is no way you can DIY. As it is a big hall, a church at that (sayang and pera pag-nagkamali), you cannot commit mistakes. Have an expert do it.
FWIW
Post by: alien_inside on February 06, 2010, 03:49:41 PM
You need diffusers in the side, absorbers and diffusers in the back, diffusers and absorbers in the ceiling. It is a rather complicated process if you want to do it right. There is no way you can DIY. As it is a big hall, a church at that (sayang and pera pag-nagkamali), you cannot commit mistakes. Have an expert do it.YOU WILL NEED A LOT OF ROCKWOOLS
FWIW
as i can see it, the WIDE-ANGLE lens of the camera makes the hall LARGER...hehe...
(OT: sir were you at the studio when GLASSPOINT recorded their single? )
Post by: lowriderthug on February 08, 2010, 11:26:37 PM
any contacts mga sirs? para maisama nadin sa budget,
thanks.
update lang po pala, nilagay namin sa backstage un drums,. malaking bawas ingay sa stage, :)
Post by: alien_inside on February 08, 2010, 11:44:40 PM
thanks sir mikep and alien_inside,rockwool.
any contacts mga sirs? para maisama nadin sa budget,
thanks.
update lang po pala, nilagay namin sa backstage un drums,. malaking bawas ingay sa stage, :)
www.jeasteel.com
look for GINA MACEDA.
JOCFER Bldg.
along commonwealth
bring your car kasi the warehouse is located sa "LOOBAN"...
Post by: Findail on March 11, 2010, 01:06:57 PM
because commercial sway braces for acoustic isolation use do not seem to be available locally (even mikep has them made), and they are not cheap for the average DIYer, i embarked on making one myself.
i patterned mine after this: http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/images/psb.jpg (http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/images/psb.jpg)
mine is obviously home-made:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3595/3394904658_99900c419d.jpg)
That's really great botbenz. I think a lot of times many of us will be forced to do something like that because of lack of local sources for such things. Also read that you had to ship greenglue...how did that work out? I was thinking of doing the same thing for the ceiling below the studio...double-gypsum with GG palaman. yum! Dunno if it's worth the cost and trouble though.
Post by: mikep on March 11, 2010, 06:25:21 PM
FWIW
Post by: botbenz on March 28, 2010, 10:42:22 PM
@Findall: my studio/music hobby was sidetracked by another hobby, including the budget! :D so i have three cases of green glue from about 9 months ago, and i sure hope they haven't coagulated beyond use! between your reminding me and mikep's tip on sourcing Kinetics' hangers locally, i ought to get back to completing my home studio/SOHO--this year!
if the green glue *expired* (i don't know if it does) beyond usability, i will probably just skip it. my poured concrete outer room seems to have attenuated noise sufficiently. the only outside noise now seems to seep through my hollow steel door, which i plan to reinforce with: 1) a leaf of MDF and/or fiber cement board; and 2) a second door.
@lowriderthug: mikep has built many studios; he can help you treating your church. heck, if i had his expertise, i'd help you and ex-deal my sins! :D
Post by: palaka on April 08, 2010, 12:39:08 AM
Post by: botbenz on April 08, 2010, 01:08:52 AM
Post by: palaka on April 08, 2010, 01:35:47 AM
@palaka: curtain absorption largely depends on the type/weight of fabric and the distance to the wall. google "sound absorption frequencies curtains".bali yung curtain ko pong nabili makapal siya tapus 2 layer po yung ginawa ko. sir tanung ko narin po anu pong sukat ng ganitong diffuser pag mag gagawa ako ng diy?tnx (http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg11/BAHOHERO/diffuser.jpg)
Post by: botbenz on April 08, 2010, 01:52:38 AM
most of the diffusors i have seen in the rear end of studios are QRD types. google "QRD diffusor calculator". some calculators can tell you the diffusion frequencies based on well depth and width that you specify.
but if you build one like the one you have referenced, let me know. i'll pay you to build a few for me! :)
Post by: palaka on April 08, 2010, 02:10:48 AM
i forgot what your reference diffusor is called, but it looks like the inverse of the skyline diffusor, which also seems easier to make.sir yung skyline po ba wood din yung materials nya?
most of the diffusors i have seen in the rear end of studios are QRD types. google "QRD diffusor calculator". some calculators can tell you the diffusion frequencies based on well depth and width that you specify.
but if you build one like the one you have referenced, let me know. i'll pay you to build a few for me! :)
Post by: botbenz on April 08, 2010, 02:20:51 AM
sir yung skyline po ba wood din yung materials nya?
yes! i think there are commercial diffusors (auralex?) that are made of a synthetic material (plastic, resin, etc.)
but most of the DIY skyline diffusers i have seen (google "skyline diffuser DIY") are made of wood. in fact, i planned on doing the same and, in fact, bought several *dos por dos*, which is really more like 1 1/2" x 1 1/2". plane it to square it, then cut them to length, according to the diffuser calculator. maraming mapaggagayahan sa internet. good luck!
Post by: lowriderthug on April 12, 2010, 12:52:09 PM
Quote
@lowriderthug: mikep has built many studios; he can help you treating your church. heck, if i had his expertise, i'd help you and ex-deal my sins! :DHaha! :lol:
Salamat sir.
this is our church, it needs treatment. :)
(http://i539.photobucket.com/albums/ff357/lowriderthug/mix%20mix/Jubilee5.jpg)
Post by: mikep on April 12, 2010, 06:42:00 PM
In the case of your church, what you need are ceiling diffusers and back portion absorbers, side wall reflectors and diffusers. I just designed the new Bread from Heaven church on Shaw blvd near the Glory (?) supermarket. The old ceiling diffusers that were once in the old church were the same ones used, including the reflectors and diffusers. I just added a few to make the RT60 work better. If you have time, you can go visit them to have an idea.
You need to make some computations and you should know where to put the treatment otherwise your efforts and money will just be wasted.
Regards,
Post by: Sol on May 03, 2010, 01:44:26 AM
Hello!
A few questions lang mga master:
Im currently building a studio in Quezon city and I'm having a hard time looking for a glass supplier that can supply me with 19mm and 15mm thick glass,
can anyone refer someone or a company for this? (My Engineer friend whose helping with the design/construction told me this would be the ideal thickness BUT:
Sub-question: would 12mm(Live room) + 10mm(Control Room) suffice? the size of the glass is only 3x4ft.
ALSO, I'm looking for someone to install an "in-the-wall" mic and headphone wiring/rig for the live room, is there anyone in philmusic who can do this?
I'm not really good at soldering :cry:
SALAMAT PO IN ADVANCE.
Post by: botbenz on May 03, 2010, 09:10:14 AM
Am no expert, but your 12mm + 10mm combo would be better served by laminated glass, or at least tempered glass. And, of course, spacing in between will also significantly help.
I have soldered a ton of stuff in my life, but keeping the lines RFI-free is the bigger challenge. I too bought in-wall mic/line panels, but I haven't gotten around to completing my build, so you're better off with someone with real experience. :) Good luck.
Post by: Sol on May 04, 2010, 10:59:46 PM
Unfortunately, they don't have anything above 12mm in thickness :cry:, THEREFORE, I'll go for the 12mm nalang.
Followup question mga sir:
Should i use 12mm glass(Live room)+ 8inch gap+10mm glass(Control room) or should i use 12mm on both sides nalang?
I trust my friends' design, but due to availability and schedule, i can't accomplish his 1st world design(Unfortunately). My contractors/workers are having a hard time as is constructing the double walls and isolation. Do you guys think 12mms are enough for this? :?
Thanks in advance. :-)
Post by: botbenz on May 21, 2010, 03:24:10 PM
Post by: alien_inside on June 03, 2010, 01:32:37 AM
IRRELEVANT!!! OUT OF TOPIC!!!
EDIT by MOD: sheesh! don't you know a spambot when you see one? and don't go quoting him; you only include the links in his post.
Post by: Findail on August 17, 2010, 12:45:25 AM
this thread's email notifier doesn't seem to be working; i don't get notified of new posts. sorry for the late reply!
@Findall: my studio/music hobby was sidetracked by another hobby, including the budget! :D so i have three cases of green glue from about 9 months ago, and i sure hope they haven't coagulated beyond use! between your reminding me and mikep's tip on sourcing Kinetics' hangers locally, i ought to get back to completing my home studio/SOHO--this year!
if the green glue *expired* (i don't know if it does) beyond usability, i will probably just skip it. my poured concrete outer room seems to have attenuated noise sufficiently.
Post by: vicsant on August 17, 2010, 08:39:58 AM
Can anyone post a link to his contact info?
Thanks!
:-)
Post by: vicsant on August 17, 2010, 08:46:46 AM
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,149196.0.html (http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,149196.0.html)
:-D
Post by: Cressin on August 24, 2010, 07:47:08 PM
My family is moving in to a condo unit and well, i dont want to part ways with my acoustic upright piano (its a personal thing I really dont want to have a digital piano as my main practice keyboard) And I'm worried about making too much noise to bother neighbors. I usually play night-time after work when most are sleeping so if ever gusto ko sana di talaga maririnig ng neighbors ung piano
Issue
1. My family does not want to "uglify" the living room of the condo. So studio soundproofing like egg cartons/ corkboards are a no-no. The best I could have for the room are carpets, wall rugs (to the point na maganda pa rin siya tignan sa wall. i cant plaster the wall with rugs), upholstered seats/pillows, curtains I guess and the like.
So ung main question ko lang I guess is if enough na ung ganitong set-up (considering a piano wont be excessively loud anyway). I cant do anything but to put a sound-absorbing foam on the back of the upright piano I guess (I read somewhere that putting auralex foam on the back of the piano works to some degree) But aside from that, wala na. Kasi pag di gagana to I might as well save up on moving cost and just send our piano back to the province in the meantime.
Post by: Findail on August 24, 2010, 11:05:32 PM
Post by: Cressin on August 24, 2010, 11:15:47 PM
I'm actually also considering that. (For that option its either the CP5 with the wooden keys or the really really attractive Korg SV-1). But the hardheaded traditionalist in my head is telling me to keep my acoustic upright haha.
So now i'm really considering soundproofing muna (on the restriction that its not going to make the living room look like a studio). but if the cost is going to be as high as the retail price of a CP5 or an SV-1, I'm just going to go digital nalang since I could always go back during the weekends just to play if I really miss my piano.
So there. Any suggestions? Or if you have experience in the issue, do you think my set-up will work na?
Post by: Findail on August 25, 2010, 02:03:38 AM
Might be a good idea to describe the condo in detail, like where the piano will be and what the walls, doors and windows are like. Then the experts here can probably give some better advice. It is doable though.
Post by: vicsant on August 25, 2010, 08:53:28 AM
Many models have 88 hammer action, weighted keys, built-in speakers, USB ports so you can easily connect to a computer to record your performance or compose music with a DAW, headphone outs for quiet practice and listening, etc., etc., etc.
Check out the Privia PX330 or PX3 (from Casio) line....best bang for the buck.
If money is no problem, then the Roland V Piano, Korg SV-1, Yamaha CP1 are your choices. The Yamaha CP1 is on my wish list :-D
Google them.....
Post by: Cressin on August 25, 2010, 01:42:02 PM
@findrail:
Well, i dont have the exact layout of the condo pa, and i didnt know it needs to be that detailed. but thanks anyway. I'll try to ask people here again if I get more info
Post by: skin on August 31, 2010, 04:59:43 PM
Is fiber board layered with asphalt sheet an effective way of soundproofing?
Post by: alien_inside on August 31, 2010, 10:21:59 PM
If you need a lot, it means more money... Gypsum Boards will still be 50% cheaper...
what kind of fiber is that? wood? glass?
Post by: skin on August 31, 2010, 11:17:05 PM
skin, pwede yan, pero im sure you may need a lot... sort of 3layer ( sandwich ) + air gap + another layer again.
If you need a lot, it means more money... Gypsum Boards will still be 50% cheaper...
what kind of fiber is that? wood? glass?
Cement fiber board. Effective kaya? I just don't know kung didikit ang asphalt sheets when heated sa cement fiber board.
Post by: alien_inside on September 01, 2010, 02:48:31 PM
Cement fiber board. Effective kaya? I just don't know kung didikit ang asphalt sheets when heated sa cement fiber board.effective if properly done.
ano dimensions? 4'x8'x(??mm)? Cost? sa house nyo ba?
Post by: skin on September 01, 2010, 04:24:35 PM
effective if properly done.
ano dimensions? 4'x8'x(??mm)? Cost? sa house nyo ba?
Di ko pa sukat. Gawin kong wall sa isang side dito sa attic sa bahay.
Post by: alien_inside on September 01, 2010, 04:48:51 PM
Post by: IMKaye on September 05, 2010, 12:50:42 PM
Meron po kaming current and immediate need for soundproofing... Very tight budget and baka pwede po patulong sa design kasi po meron po kami materials na pwede makuha and labor. Room size po may be around 4x4 or 3x5 meters... recording booth po for Voice over, etc. Ty in advance po! :-)
Post by: d6ynast9y on September 08, 2010, 12:21:50 AM
The ceiling of the third floor of my house is covered with kisame (?) Just like most office buildings. Im not sure if kisame yung tawag, but its the white board around 1 1/2 inch thick, around 2ft x4ft. The ones suspended on aluminum frames hanging from the ceiling itself. I tried searching online what its really called, and I came across acoustic ceiling tiles.
Anyways, my third floor is due for renovation in a couple months and my dad was gonna replace all the ceiling boards(?).
Now for my wild idea, instead of throwing these away, I was thinking of recycling them, maybe glue four or five together, then make a frame for it, cover it with cloth, and use it as a bass trap (sorta, of course im not expecting the absorbtion of really low frequencies, but at least some unwanted reflections)
What do the experts here got to say?
Should I just scrap these ceiling boards, or would my idea sorta work in even the slightest way?
I was planning on using these panels for my home recording studio in my small condo unit.
Thanks for your time!
edit: i remember also coming across the word gypsum boards for these? but im not sure if they are gypsum boards
Post by: botbenz on September 10, 2010, 01:20:02 PM
they're ok for residential acoustic treatment. but if you want absorption, you're better off buying rockwool or mineral fiber, especially if you're going to go through the trouble of building a frame and covering it with cloth. rockwool isn't that expensive, if you only need a few panels of 2'x4'. a roll of 50mm fiber glass that covers 18 sqm only costs 2k+, so you could do with a lot less. just be sure you don't buy thermal fiberglass, the kind that's covered/wrapped in silvery foil.
Post by: botbenz on September 10, 2010, 01:35:35 PM
Hello po!
Meron po kaming current and immediate need for soundproofing... Very tight budget and baka pwede po patulong sa design kasi po meron po kami materials na pwede makuha and labor. Room size po may be around 4x4 or 3x5 meters... recording booth po for Voice over, etc. Ty in advance po! :-)
game! post mo yung materials you have, as well as description of the room (is it in a house? what are the adjoining rooms? is it on the ground floor? what is above it?). also, specify your needs (you don't want to disturb the neighbors; it's for demo recording, etc.)
Post by: d6ynast9y on September 11, 2010, 12:44:30 AM
^yeah, those sound like acoustic tiles, not gypsum boards.
they're ok for residential acoustic treatment. but if you want absorption, you're better off buying rockwool or mineral fiber, especially if you're going to go through the trouble of building a frame and covering it with cloth. rockwool isn't that expensive, if you only need a few panels of 2'x4'. a roll of 50mm fiber glass that covers 18 sqm only costs 2k+, so you could do with a lot less. just be sure you don't buy thermal fiberglass, the kind that's covered/wrapped in silvery foil.
So they would help a little bit in treating my room? I really dont have a big budget yet, and im only renting the condo im in, so spending big on bass traps is not an option yet. Ill probably go on with the acoustic tiles. I wont build any frames, instead, ill just glue maybe 3 together then wrap it in cloth. Thanks for the input! :-)
Post by: peeves24 on September 11, 2010, 09:00:20 AM
So they would help a little bit in treating my room? I really dont have a big budget yet, and im only renting the condo im in, so spending big on bass traps is not an option yet. Ill probably go on with the acoustic tiles. I wont build any frames, instead, ill just glue maybe 3 together then wrap it in cloth. Thanks for the input! :-)
cheapest option will be to use the arc measurement plugin for treatment. i've been using this for 2 months now and i can really hear vast improvements on my mixes on the first mixdown alone. dati inaabot ako ng ilang araw at mga 10 to 20 adjustments para lang mabalance lahat ng tracks, down to 3 na lang ako ngayon.
i'll be getting the krk ergo system this december.
Post by: botbenz on September 11, 2010, 10:47:39 AM
Post by: d6ynast9y on September 11, 2010, 11:47:02 AM
cheapest option will be to use the arc measurement plugin for treatment. i've been using this for 2 months now and i can really hear vast improvements on my mixes on the first mixdown alone. dati inaabot ako ng ilang araw at mga 10 to 20 adjustments para lang mabalance lahat ng tracks, down to 3 na lang ako ngayon.
i'll be getting the krk ergo system this december.
woah, but its $600? maybe treating my room the DIY way would be cheaper. :-D
Post by: peeves24 on September 12, 2010, 02:20:32 AM
is the ARC system/plug-in free of charge?
free to try :evil: care of your friendly torrent site. now that i know that it works for me, i'll invest on a hardware based solution - the krk ergo will also act as a control center for multi-monitor setups which im really wanting lately.
woah, but its $600? maybe treating my room the DIY way would be cheaper. :-D
i tried but you really have to commit to treat (or remodel) your room or else dont try at all. im half way there, i followed sir mikep's suggestions from another thread but i found using arc enables me to mix in any room without treatments.
Post by: telesgboy on September 12, 2010, 06:31:28 PM
So they would help a little bit in treating my room?
Acoustical tile can be used to reduce the reverberation of the room. However, you have to know the absorption coefficient of the material. Using them in your room as acoustic treatment will make your room loose its high frequency character, approximately from 1 k up to 4 k. There will be a marked boominess in the room. So, you combine these tiles with hard surfaces such as plywood, gypsum or cement to give you a respectable frequency response. Use about 30 to 45% of your walls covered with the tiles, and the rest as is, and I think you will be ok. Stopping sound from going into another room or disturbing the neighbors? That is another story. What you need there is mass (cement, sandwiched gypsum, etc.) and covering all possible places where sound may seep or pass through.
Good luck in your endeavours.
(Sorry, I did not know this is my son's Philmusic account. I should have used my mikep account. Nevertheless, saka na lang.)
Post by: d6ynast9y on September 12, 2010, 09:08:16 PM
Acoustical tile can be used to reduce the reverberation of the room. However, you have to know the absorption coefficient of the material. Using them in your room as acoustic treatment will make your room loose its high frequency character, approximately from 1 k up to 4 k. There will be a marked boominess in the room. So, you combine these tiles with hard surfaces such as plywood, gypsum or cement to give you a respectable frequency response. Use about 30 to 45% of your walls covered with the tiles, and the rest as is, and I think you will be ok. Stopping sound from going into another room or disturbing the neighbors? That is another story. What you need there is mass (cement, sandwiched gypsum, etc.) and covering all possible places where sound may seep or pass through.
Good luck in your endeavours.
(Sorry, I did not know this is my son's Philmusic account. I should have used my mikep account. Nevertheless, saka na lang.)
Thanks for the info. Yup, I wasnt expecting any absorption of lower frequencies. Same with soundproofing, the neighbours don't mind since I dont have an acoustic drumset here.
Many thanks again!
Post by: carleywarley on September 18, 2010, 11:56:51 PM
Post by: skin on September 20, 2010, 05:39:22 PM
Guys,i need help about sound proofing a room. Matagal ko nang pangarap na magkaroon ng sariling sound proof na room for drums/band practice/etc. Right now mga 20k ang budget ko for this. Pero kung pwede sana hindi na ire-remodel ang kwarto. Meron ba yung simpleng pieces of materials lang tapos isasalpak lang sa pader?
Kung isasalpak lang lang sa pader, that's acoustic treatment, not soundproofing.
Post by: carleywarley on September 21, 2010, 01:35:41 AM
Kung isasalpak lang lang sa pader, that's acoustic treatment, not soundproofing.Sorry,baguhan lang kasi ako sa ganito. Pwede bang ma-reduce ang sound na lumalabas from inside to outside without altering the walls?
Post by: skin on September 21, 2010, 06:36:33 PM
Sorry,baguhan lang kasi ako sa ganito. Pwede bang ma-reduce ang sound na lumalabas from inside to outside without altering the walls?
Yes you can. You need to create another wall within the room. So it's a room within a room.
Post by: carleywarley on September 21, 2010, 08:12:52 PM
Yes you can. You need to create another wall within the room. So it's a room within a room.Ahh! Now i get the idea. Thankyou so much! :D But may i ask what materials are needed? I tried to backread and i got confused. May mga abbreviations pang ginagamit na hindi ko alam ibig sabihin.
Post by: BAMF on November 04, 2010, 01:08:36 PM
Ahh! Now i get the idea. Thankyou so much! :D But may i ask what materials are needed? I tried to backread and i got confused. May mga abbreviations pang ginagamit na hindi ko alam ibig sabihin.
Gypsum boards and railings. But if the structure can take it, I'd rather use 4 inch thick hollowblocks.
Post by: mikep on November 05, 2010, 02:29:57 PM
Hope this helps.
Post by: carleywarley on November 10, 2010, 09:52:55 PM
Post by: titser_marco on November 11, 2010, 11:23:13 PM
Post by: hamsterjamster on November 17, 2010, 12:39:01 AM
Post by: albert_n16 on November 19, 2010, 10:38:04 AM
Room plan.
(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j470/albert_n16/Roomplan.jpg)
Plan for sound proofing:
a) cover entire wall as (Wall + 1" air gap + 12mm gypsum + 2" 48kg density glass fiber + 9mm gypsum)
Plan for acoustic treatment"
a) 4 - 2' x 8' bass traps made from 4" 48kg density glass fiber
For acoustic treatment, should I surround the inner wall, floor to ceiling, with 48kg density glass fiber + cloth or just make 2' x 4' panels and hang them at reflection points?
I've searched but couldn't get information on how to properly design acoustic treatment for a room. I'm afraid the room will sound boomy if only high frequency is absorbed.
Post by: skin on November 19, 2010, 10:57:48 AM
Post by: albert_n16 on November 19, 2010, 10:59:26 AM
Post by: hamsterjamster on November 20, 2010, 12:49:39 AM
Post by: mikep on November 20, 2010, 09:53:22 PM
I'm building my home theatre room
Plan for sound proofing:
a) cover entire wall as (Wall + 1" air gap + 12mm gypsum + 2" 48kg density glass fiber + 9mm gypsum)
Plan for acoustic treatment"
a) 4 - 2' x 8' bass traps made from 4" 48kg density glass fiber
For acoustic treatment, should I surround the inner wall, floor to ceiling, with 48kg density glass fiber + cloth or just make 2' x 4' panels and hang them at reflection points?
First, work on your room. You have an almost square room. You will have modal problems on the lower frequencies.
Second, what is the purpose of doing this ? Wall + 1" air gap + 12mm gypsum + 2" 48kg density glass fiber + 9mm gypsum? What isolation are you trying to achieve? STC? Better if you use wall + 4" air gap + 2" 48 kg/m3 on metal frames + 2 pcs. 12 mm gypsum placed staggered.
Third, for home theaters, make your front absorptive, 2" glass fiber, front, sides and ceiling, diffusive at the rear. Angle the walls especially the reflective sides to direct reflections to the rear.
There are subject matters of home theater acoustics in the net. Just have the patience in looking for them.
PS, the 2 ft X 8 ft. 4" 48 kg/m3 glass fiber absorbers as LF absorbers or traps will not have much effect. They do not go down to the absorption of frequencies that you want absorbed. Better to use Helmholtz resonators or similar panel absorbers.
Good luck.
Post by: albert_n16 on November 20, 2010, 10:58:48 PM
Initially I want to do a little soundproofing to keep the sound from going out and disturbing the neighbors while watching. But since the room is located far from them, I thought that there's no need for that.
When you say make the front absorptive you mean cover the whole front with 2" fiber glass? or a 2' x 4' x 2" panel will do? Should I do the same for the sides and the ceiling?
I still can choose either to hang 2' x 4' x 2" panels or to cover the walls with fiber glass.
Helmholtz resonators might be my next DIY after building the QRD Diffuser for the rear part of the room.
Post by: mikep on November 22, 2010, 05:10:31 PM
I still can choose either to hang 2' x 4' x 2" panels or to cover the walls with fiber glass.
It needs to be computed, to get the right T60. But, just for pwede na purposes, cover the entire front wall with 2" glass fiber, 2 panels of 4' X 8' per side of left and right walls, front area, with 1" glass fiber 48 kg/m3. That can get your HT going until you decide what to put in the back and back side wall portions. The back wall should be diffusive. If you are building QRDs, build 4 pcs 4' X 8' for the rear portion of the walls. It would be nice to put Helmholtz to control your LF energy. You would need approximately 1.5 X 4' X 8' per side of back wall, or you can hang them in the ceiling.
Good luck.
Post by: albert_n16 on November 22, 2010, 09:50:56 PM
Since the height of floor to ceiling is exactly 8', two 4' x 8' panels per side are just right to totally cover the front side of the walls with fiberglass.
Now, since the two front corners are fully covered with fiber glass. Will there be a significant effect on placing 2' x 8' 4" panels on the 4 corners of the room, wall to wall? Or will Helmholtz suffice to handle low frequency?
The current design for the ceiling is to fill it with 1" 48kg density fiberglass and cover it with perforated gypsum. The choice of gypsum is to allow some high frequency to be reflected as not to deaden the acoustic of the room.
Quote:
"If you are building QRDs, build 4 pcs 4' X 8' for the rear portion of the walls."
My rear wall is just 12' x 8' so 3 pieces of these will fill the entire rear wall.
Again, thanks for the replies from the members of this forum. I'm almost done with the design and ready to order fiber glass at Philippine Insulation in Sucat.
Post by: daleee on November 24, 2010, 12:40:33 PM
ano po yung tawag dun sa pa 2 panels na nasa likod ng drumset at para san un? Thanks!
Post by: mikep on November 24, 2010, 07:13:19 PM
FWIW
Post by: Silaw on December 01, 2010, 08:46:00 PM
have backread almost all the posts in this thread, and followed up on leads. planning to build a small studio, you see, and so i went on the search for rockwool / mineral fiber. here's my results:
1. went to wilcon ali mall and had them ask the main branch if they carried rockwool (i also used the terms mineral wool, mineral fiber, fiber glass rolls/batting). they didn't carry any of those; apparently what they have is insulite (foam in between two aluminum-foil surfaces, sold in rolls). 15mm is the thickest they had, and i can lift a 1 x 25m roll of that with my hand and foot, so that's a no-go.
2. called up mc home depot in ortigas and asked for the same thing. same thing happens; although the guy also offered acoustic boards when i told him what i was going to use the insulation for. an 8-piece pack of 2x4ft acoustic boards is around 1200.
3. ace hardware and other hardware stores also just carry this aluminum-foam sandwich insulation. none of the fiber glass / rockwool stuff.
so can anybody help me out here? why is rockwool so hard to find? where do i find rockwool or fiberglass, and how much do they currently cost?
also, are there any significant differences between same-density rockwool sold in blocks and rolled-up rockwool (assuming this thing exists)?
also, extra tips? here's going to be my setup (my primary goal at this point is sound proofing, not acoustic treatment):
floor area: 16x13ft
ceiling: will be lowered to 8ft from 9ft, same treatment as walls
walls: 1ft chb wall, 4" air gap+metal studs, rockwool or fiberglass (whatever i can get my hands on), gypsum boards
door: was thinking of double solid wooden doors, rubber-sealed on all edges. but i'd settle for a single door if it works.
floor: no idea, help? for sure it's going to be carpeted
Post by: daleee on December 02, 2010, 10:20:19 AM
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt53/daleee_me/NewPicture2.jpg)
What do you call those panels behind the drummer? What does it do? And what is its effect to whoever is inside the soudbooth especially if drums are inside the soundbooth?
Post by: skin on December 02, 2010, 11:04:36 AM
hi. first-timer here in the acoustics subforums.
have backread almost all the posts in this thread, and followed up on leads. planning to build a small studio, you see, and so i went on the search for rockwool / mineral fiber. here's my results:
1. went to wilcon ali mall and had them ask the main branch if they carried rockwool (i also used the terms mineral wool, mineral fiber, fiber glass rolls/batting). they didn't carry any of those; apparently what they have is insulite (foam in between two aluminum-foil surfaces, sold in rolls). 15mm is the thickest they had, and i can lift a 1 x 25m roll of that with my hand and foot, so that's a no-go.
2. called up mc home depot in ortigas and asked for the same thing. same thing happens; although the guy also offered acoustic boards when i told him what i was going to use the insulation for. an 8-piece pack of 2x4ft acoustic boards is around 1200.
3. ace hardware and other hardware stores also just carry this aluminum-foam sandwich insulation. none of the fiber glass / rockwool stuff.
so can anybody help me out here? why is rockwool so hard to find? where do i find rockwool or fiberglass, and how much do they currently cost?
also, are there any significant differences between same-density rockwool sold in blocks and rolled-up rockwool (assuming this thing exists)?
also, extra tips? here's going to be my setup (my primary goal at this point is sound proofing, not acoustic treatment):
floor area: 16x13ft
ceiling: will be lowered to 8ft from 9ft, same treatment as walls
walls: 1ft chb wall, 4" air gap+metal studs, rockwool or fiberglass (whatever i can get my hands on), gypsum boards
door: was thinking of double solid wooden doors, rubber-sealed on all edges. but i'd settle for a single door if it works.
floor: no idea, help? for sure it's going to be carpeted
Call these numbers 9074068, 7823046 / 3576065. They might have what you need.
Post by: mikep on December 03, 2010, 01:47:16 AM
How about this:
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt53/daleee_me/NewPicture2.jpg)
What do you call those panels behind the drummer? What does it do? And what is its effect to whoever is inside the soudbooth especially if drums are inside the soundbooth?
Those are mid band absorbers built in a form of gobos. They are placed at the back to contain the sound and deaden the drum sound a bit. In a big room, you normally would need gobos to contain the sound and make it less reverberant. That way your sound, drums, etc., will be more dry with the mics picking up less of the room sound.
Post by: peeves24 on December 31, 2010, 10:54:04 AM
gagamitin ko lang sa DIY sway brace
Post by: peeves24 on January 25, 2011, 09:08:50 AM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5212/5385621443_de1d2a24f7_z.jpg)
this is the actual space with the new concrete roof deck
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5220/5386155592_61fe66d5a8_z.jpg)
Post by: pmack on January 26, 2011, 09:26:15 AM
Post by: peeves24 on January 26, 2011, 09:24:08 PM
Post by: peeves24 on January 28, 2011, 10:55:00 AM
(http://images.riasausa.multiply.com/image/6/photos/32/500x500/35/Rehearsal-Studio.JPG?et=0X2OzHjgsAhAU6NJTdhWTQ&nmid=48646778)
sir mikep nung nakapasok sa studio na to parang walang sound proofing elements sa walls at ceiling. nakita ko puro acoustic treatment lang at ok naman yung isolation. meron po ba kayong nagawang measurement na stc rating nitong room na to? how much noise is attenuated if you are on the lobby when a band is playing?
Post by: killikillers on February 07, 2011, 12:00:13 PM
posted my reply on pinoydrums
http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,17630.75.html
Post by: mikep on February 09, 2011, 07:02:38 PM
sir mikep nung nakapasok sa studio na to parang walang sound proofing elements sa walls at ceiling. nakita ko puro acoustic treatment lang at ok naman yung isolation. meron po ba kayong nagawang measurement na stc rating nitong room na to? how much noise is attenuated if you are on the lobby when a band is playing?The sound proofing elements are inside the walls. These is comprised of various sandwiches of gypsum boards, metal studs, cement boards and glass fiber insulation. The walls have an STC of greater than 55 so minimal sound can be heard outside even though a band is rehearsing.
Sorry for the late reply. Oftentimes, I cannot access Philmusic.
Post by: peeves24 on February 11, 2011, 06:47:24 AM
by the way, are there any other suppliers of isomax clips or rsic-1 clips here locally? i checked out basic machinery already and they do sell isomax clips but i dont think i can afford their price quote which if summed, would cost more than all my gypsum, light steel framing and fg blankets combined.
im all set to get rsic-1 clips online, i just want to do a last minute check.
i thought that this might be interesting to others who want to put functional sliding windows on their studios. may ginamit ako ng pvc windows na nabibili sa wilcon/home depot at mukang ok naman yung isolation lalo na kung 2 windows ang ikakabit mo. eto yung simple test na ginawa ko para macheck yung noise reduction na galing sa kick drum - i documented a 22db reduction. konting modification lang sa window na to, like replacing the regular glass with thicker laminated glass, e malaki na rin sigurong improvement. i'll buy another window and do the mods this saturday.
Post by: I3one_Head on March 10, 2011, 07:20:23 PM
Post by: skin on March 11, 2011, 11:13:55 AM
Mga Boss pacheck nga kung uubra ang plano ko. I'm planning to build a studio, Concrete floor at isa lang concrete wall. The other sides would be Hardiflex na lang, lalagyan pa ng foam dun sa gitna? (sandwiched yung foam). I don't care much about the acoustics inside, ang habol ko is to soundproof para hindi makabulahaw sa kapitbahay. So mglalagay parin ako nung puzzlemat sa floor at carpeted pa. tapos yung walls lalagyan ko rin ng foam. Masoundproof kaya yun? Tight budget e. 10-15k lang kaya ko for the materials + labor. thanks!
Kailangan room within a room para soundproof.
Post by: h0tb0x on April 04, 2011, 10:33:29 AM
Post by: bulok on June 10, 2011, 12:58:12 PM
Post by: skin on June 10, 2011, 03:13:32 PM
anong materials ang pwede kong ilagay sa ceiling para pang sound proof? ply wood lang kasi yung kisame at ano yung pwede ko gawin para matanggal ang echo? yung mga materials na alam nyo na madali lang makita sa hardware at mura sana.. my ganun ba para sa problem ko?
Kung soundproof, kailangan semento ceiling mo.
For the echo, puede na thick curtains. Pero wala yun sa hardware.
Post by: bulok on June 11, 2011, 01:04:40 AM
Kung soundproof, kailangan semento ceiling mo.
For the echo, puede na thick curtains. Pero wala yun sa hardware.
ah.. ok madali lang pala sa echo
yung ceiling kase plywood lang, paanong remedyo gagawin ko dun? anong material ilalagay ko at paano installation?
Post by: skin on June 11, 2011, 07:43:55 AM
ah.. ok madali lang pala sa echo
yung ceiling kase plywood lang, paanong remedyo gagawin ko dun? anong material ilalagay ko at paano installation?
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/how-to-soundproof-a-ceiling
Post by: bulok on June 11, 2011, 03:10:50 PM
Post by: mikep on June 14, 2011, 03:36:43 PM
Post by: fredzs on June 21, 2011, 10:00:48 PM
Post by: bulok on July 01, 2011, 12:49:17 PM
Post by: plitipiw40315 on July 23, 2011, 09:29:21 PM
ang gypsum board o hardiflex ba ay pang soundproof o pang acoustic treatment? kaylangan ko kasi ng pang soundproof
more on acoustic treatment bro.. :-D
Post by: mikep on July 26, 2011, 01:53:06 AM
ang gypsum board o hardiflex ba ay pang soundproof o pang acoustic treatment? kaylangan ko kasi ng pang soundproof
To stop sound, you need solid materials. Gypsum and cemboard or Hardiflex are examples of solid materials that are used to stop sound. Cement, woodboard, rubber and even plastic or limp mass are also used in combination with other materials are also employed. To control sound, like lessen its volume in the room, or temper certain frequencies in a room, usually referred to as acoustic control, absorptive materials such as glass fiber, rock wall, etc. or diffusive elements like poly-cylindricals or Schoeder diffusers (commonly known by its brand, RPG) and solid materials designed to reflect or re-direct sound, or act as panel absorbers, are used. Gypsum board and cemboard are more for .... soundproofing.
Post by: Jason@gensan on November 09, 2011, 06:04:26 PM
Post by: yetsky on November 10, 2011, 12:30:31 AM
salamat!
Post by: plitipiw40315 on November 10, 2011, 08:06:57 PM
Eto po ibang details
-mga 280 po ang ceiling height
-mga 13' x 11' po ang rough estimate ko sa inside area nya.
-Concrete slab po lahat ng walls, ceiling at floor.
-Plano ko pong maglagay ng 2 doors at 2 na mejo maliit na windows.
-ang original na plano ko po ay gumawa pa ng isang inside wall, sandwhich ang cotton fiber, then plywood.
Post by: Xelly on November 13, 2011, 10:24:37 PM
Meron akong small room na may dimensions na 9ft-width by 8ft-length by 7ft-height. Yung ceiling nitong room ay plywood. Yung isang side ay plywood wall din. May isang side na concrete wall pero shelves siya. Puno yung shelves ng mga damit at libro. Tapos yung last 2 sides is concrete talaga. Ang ginawa ko yung 2 walls na concrete sinandalan ko ng mga Uratex na bed na mga 5inches yung kapal. So halos wala nang makitang concrete wall kasi puro kutchon na. Tapos yung sahig 50% is nalagyan ko ng carpet. Yung carpet is nasa ilalim ng monitors(HS50m). Sa ceiling wala akong nilagay. Pati dun sa isang wall na plywood wala rin. Tanong ko lang sir ok na kaya yan for yung tipong "saktong" room acoustics treatment lang? Uber low budget lang kasi ako. Or may suggestions ba kayo? Malaking tulong yun sir!!!
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/320754_301212956573837_100000554053996_1100219_1656428874_n.jpg)
Ang goal ko lang is makapagmix/master ako ng mga tracks ko sa monitors ko ng walang bahid ng kulay na madadagdag yung kwarto. TIA
Post by: mikep on November 15, 2011, 01:04:58 AM
Post by: Xelly on November 15, 2011, 10:47:49 PM
Mahirap i compute kasi walang data yung mga materyales na inilagay mo. Pero, if you think it sounds good and right, ok na. This is what you do. Get a CD that you like listening to and are familiar with. Try to notice the nuances of the mix of a song, i. e., hi freq - cymbals, crash and ride; low frequency like bass, mid low like kick, voice for mid high and others. Try to see if there is balance in your room, or if certain elements in the song seems to jump out. If you think, the sound seem to be balanced and is not at all harsh, the room is ok. Or if there are any problem frequencies, keep notice of these frequencies and you either boost or cut them in your room, to compensate for what is lacking or over. A good room is a room that you are very familiar with, and that you know the anomalies of the room and compensate them in your mix.
Grabe anlupet ninyo sir!!! The best!! maraming salamat ganda ng advice ninyo!!! :-D
Post by: plitipiw40315 on November 18, 2011, 10:08:30 PM
Patulong naman po mga masters, currently nagpapagawa po ako ng "drum room" ko,hingi naman po ako ng advice kung anong magandang gawin sa walls para ma soundproof.Ano pa pong improvement ang dapat kong gawin para masulit ang pagpapaconstruct ko?salamat..
Eto po ibang details
-mga 280 po ang ceiling height
-mga 13' x 11' po ang rough estimate ko sa inside area nya.
-Concrete slab po lahat ng walls, ceiling at floor.
-Plano ko pong maglagay ng 2 doors at 2 na mejo maliit na windows.
-ang original na plano ko po ay gumawa pa ng isang inside wall, sandwhich ang cotton fiber, then plywood.
Post by: alien_inside on November 21, 2011, 06:36:39 AM
mga sir san ba ko makakabili ng acoustic foam? balak ko lang gumawa nito... http://www.recordproducer.com/?a=408orderin mo sa states bro, they will ship it to you.... i dont know any supplier in the phils.
salamat!
Post by: ron15 on January 11, 2012, 02:12:42 AM
Stumbled on this thread while looking on how to sound proof my room. Drum room specifically. That's the only reason why I still do not have a drum kit right now.
(Medyo OT, just want to release some of my frustrations hahaha... :-D)
The worst thing ever is dreaming about your kit then sometime when you gain consciousness, you realized you can't cause the music you make might just be an annoying noise on the ears of your neighbor and give them a reason to throw rocks at your house. Then you found a solution, soundproofing. But you again realize that your money is just enough for your drum kit and a somewhat decent cymbals. Researched more hoping for a cheap solution. Then Learned that sound proofing might be much more expensive than your kit to work. You found a solution, have a bigger budget! Then realize you are still jobless.(That's another story. hahaha..) Ouch!!! :cry: Thinking of it really annoys me. <_<
Anyway I'll keep on looking at this thread. Hopefully I might be able to have enough money to build a drum room. Miracle happens! :-D
Post by: remla02 on January 22, 2012, 02:39:01 AM
Sir tatanong ko lang anong klaseng foam po ang ginamit nya dito? Normal foam lang ba ung mga nabibili sa uratex? Gusto ko kasi subukan to, no budget sa professional soundproofing eh.
Post by: mikep on January 24, 2012, 11:51:01 PM
Post by: straightwire on February 04, 2012, 06:00:29 PM
To stop sound, you need solid materials. Gypsum and cemboard or Hardiflex are examples of solid materials that are used to stop sound. Cement, woodboard, rubber and even plastic or limp mass are also used in combination with other materials are also employed. To control sound, like lessen its volume in the room, or temper certain frequencies in a room, usually referred to as acoustic control, absorptive materials such as glass fiber, rock wall, etc. or diffusive elements like poly-cylindricals or Schoeder diffusers (commonly known by its brand, RPG) and solid materials designed to reflect or re-direct sound, or act as panel absorbers, are used. Gypsum board and cemboard are more for .... soundproofing.Sir how about MDF board ok ba yun na gawin pintuan instead na gypsum or plywood
Post by: plitipiw40315 on February 07, 2012, 10:24:21 AM
-wall
-5" gap
-speaker
plano ko pong lagyan ng foam yung gap bet wall at speaker..TIA :wave:
Post by: mikep on February 07, 2012, 10:32:07 PM
Sir how about MDF board ok ba yun na gawin pintuan instead na gypsum or plywood
No problem. As long as you put some insulation inside the door panel and make the doors as thick as possible. There are limitations though.
Post by: mikep on February 07, 2012, 10:35:43 PM
tanong po mga master, nakakatulong po ba sa pag tame low freq. pag ganito ang set up ko sa mounted speaker.
-wall
-5" gap
-speaker
plano ko pong lagyan ng foam yung gap bet wall at speaker..TIA :wave:
Nope. Control of low frequency means you either absorb that frequency through thick fuzz or through panel lymphatic type absorbers. 5" gap will only absorb about 700 to 3,000 hz. which not even within the bass region.
Post by: plitipiw40315 on February 07, 2012, 10:40:52 PM
Nope. Control of low frequency means you either absorb that frequency through thick fuzz or through panel lymphatic type absorbers. 5" gap will only absorb about 700 to 3,000 hz. which not even within the bass region.
whoa, that's sad sir mike, even if i'll put foam on two sides?? whats the best remedy then sir? i have a room w/c is approximately 11ft. by 13ft.
Post by: mikep on February 07, 2012, 11:06:28 PM
Post by: plitipiw40315 on February 08, 2012, 07:56:47 AM
What are your speakers? Put you speaker system in a floor mount, about ear height. Form a triangle between your two speakers and your head or mix position. Try to make the equidistant as near as possible. So, near field. Keep the speakers away from the wall about 2 to 3 ft. Put 2" to 4" glass fiber 48 kg/m3 on your front wall and 1" glass fiber 48 kg/m3 half way through your side wall, from mid or waist level up until 7 feet. This will just tame a bit of mid and high frequency. Make music. Hope this helps.
parang ganito po yung speaker sir mike.
(http://www.abenson.com.ph/images/products%5C90160.jpg)
ganito po roughly yung magiging set up ng room.
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/plitipiw40315/studio2.jpg)
i was planning to put curtains nalang po beside the speaker at sa opposite side, at the back of drums at sa right side din ng drums.
Post by: mikep on February 16, 2012, 03:54:53 PM
Post by: mikep on February 16, 2012, 04:03:47 PM
Post by: plitipiw40315 on February 16, 2012, 04:11:13 PM
Drapes can be used to absorb mid and high frequencies. If you want to absorb a bit of low, place the drapes about 12 inches from the wall to allow air at the back (between the drapes and wall). I still suggest you float your speakers and let them be nearer you if you are using them as monitors. Good luck.
thank you very much sir mike, i'll post some updates and development as soon as matapos yung project ko.. :wave: :wave:
Post by: marko21 on February 18, 2012, 09:14:34 PM
Post by: mikep on February 20, 2012, 07:42:24 PM
Post by: marko21 on February 22, 2012, 08:34:58 PM
Post by: mikep on February 27, 2012, 03:42:16 PM
Post by: remla02 on April 05, 2012, 06:38:34 PM
Nakabili ako ng murang office divider sa scrap store sa amin, Thinking na pede siya maka-soundproof ng room, Most of us naman siguro nakakita na ng Office divider, So ask ko po kung gagana kaya ito to soundproof a room? Para kasing pede siya, Someone tried?
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/firsttimebreeder/100_0360.jpg)
(http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz251/firsttimebreeder/100_0355.jpg)
Post by: maximus0fficial on April 12, 2012, 07:06:24 PM
Post by: Xelly on April 26, 2012, 10:32:28 AM
Post by: mikep on April 30, 2012, 08:15:32 PM
Post by: Xelly on May 05, 2012, 02:22:05 PM
Post by: chiinabi on May 05, 2012, 04:11:04 PM
Post by: Xelly on May 13, 2012, 01:36:49 PM
Post by: mikep on May 13, 2012, 05:38:15 PM
2) Glass fiber absorbs so you use it as treatment. Thick plywood, gypsum board in layers, hollow blocks filled, layers of cement boards and other similar types are used to stop the sound. Thus, soundproofing.
Post by: Xelly on May 13, 2012, 05:47:53 PM
1) There is no way to temporarily and "pinaka murang" sound proofing technique. You have to understand that to stop sound you need mass. That a layer of different massive and dense materials. It costs.
2) Glass fiber absorbs so you use it as treatment. Thick plywood, gypsum board in layers, hollow blocks filled, layers of cement boards and other similar types are used to stop the sound. Thus, soundproofing.
Sabi ko na nga ba. Tsk! Anways salamat sa info sir Mike!!
Post by: chiinabi on May 18, 2012, 09:39:51 PM
Gusto ko po sana magpatayo ng Rehearsal Studio.
May vacant lot na po, so From Scratch talaga lahat, I've been reading books, pero usually dinadaanan lang yung soundproofing and acoustics. and main problem ko na iniisip ko gabi gabi ay yung Ventilation nung kwarto?
If airtight room = Isolation. Pano po magwowork yung band for hours dun? Split type na aircon naman paikot ikot lang din yung hangin.
Post by: alien_inside on May 20, 2012, 05:25:12 PM
Post by: in_the_tent on May 21, 2012, 08:50:38 PM
Post by: harmonicconverger on May 23, 2012, 11:18:29 PM
Post by: Xelly on May 24, 2012, 08:05:11 AM
Post by: mikep on May 24, 2012, 10:32:18 PM
Pwede ba gumamit ng kahoy instead of metal studs sa frame ng pang double wall? mas makakatipid ba?No. Mas mahal and kahoy at mas maganda ang insulkation performance ng metal stud.
Post by: alien_inside on May 25, 2012, 05:47:17 AM
mga sir gypsum o hardiflex? :-)Mahal ang Hardiflex...
Post by: Xelly on May 25, 2012, 09:02:45 AM
Mahal ang Hardiflex...
ah ok. salamat sir!!
Post by: pualux on May 25, 2012, 07:57:58 PM
pwede ba kahit anong foam lang ilagay ko sa baba ng studio monitors?
Post by: skin on May 25, 2012, 09:45:54 PM
boss ano brands readily available ng foam yung ginagamit para madecouple ang studio monitors from the desk, san ba nakakabili nun?
pwede ba kahit anong foam lang ilagay ko sa baba ng studio monitors?
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/auralex-mopad-monitor-isolation-pads
Ito yun. Hindi puede kahit anong foam. Baka mamaya lagyan mo ng unan ang ilalim ng monitors mo. Hehe.
Post by: pualux on May 25, 2012, 10:54:03 PM
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/auralex-mopad-monitor-isolation-pads
Ito yun. Hindi puede kahit anong foam. Baka mamaya lagyan mo ng unan ang ilalim ng monitors mo. Hehe.
too late, ginawa ko na! hahahaha, may nabibili ba locally niyan boss?
Post by: mikep on May 28, 2012, 09:47:31 PM
Post by: Xelly on May 28, 2012, 10:23:25 PM
Actually, if your purpose is to decouple, any dense foam would do. Make sure it has the right density to work well, and must be at least 50 mm thick. FWIW
50mm = approx 2in.
Sir ask ko lang pwede namang rubber tama?
Post by: mikep on May 29, 2012, 05:02:18 PM
50mm = approx 2in.
Sir ask ko lang pwede namang rubber tama?
Yes, basta yung speaker naglalaro sa goma. In other words, hindi pipit na mabuti yung goma; hindi rin masyadong rigid.
Post by: channel on May 29, 2012, 11:43:36 PM
No. Mas mahal and kahoy at mas maganda ang insulkation performance ng metal stud.thanks po sir
Post by: Xelly on June 01, 2012, 06:30:49 PM
Post by: skin on June 01, 2012, 08:49:58 PM
Mga sir ok ba gamitin yung makapal na rubber flooring na ginagamit sa mga sasakyan for sound absorption ng flooring?:-)
Mag carpet ka.
Post by: peeves24 on June 03, 2012, 08:53:59 AM
Wala sa alabang home depot ng rockwool. san pa meron na store na malapit sa laguna?
meron. nasa tapat ng entrance dun sa side ng zapote road ang imc traders. you cant miss it
Post by: krkNdrx on June 06, 2012, 11:39:35 PM
Post by: mr. trigger on June 25, 2012, 09:42:42 PM
Post by: mikep on June 25, 2012, 09:55:14 PM
Post by: mr. trigger on June 25, 2012, 10:33:31 PM
baka makatulong sa inyo to mga bro :)
Post by: mikep on June 26, 2012, 06:19:45 PM
Mga sir ok ba gamitin yung makapal na rubber flooring na ginagamit sa mga sasakyan for sound absorption ng flooring?:-)No. This type of rubber material would act more as a reflector than absorber because of its density. Use area rugs. They will serve you better.
Post by: mr. trigger on June 26, 2012, 09:51:31 PM
To diffuse sound all over so you control the reflections bouncing from the ceiling. You have to make calculations to make it effective. You cannot just put one panel and that's it. You have to compute.
thanks men! :wink:
Post by: incubus_boy08 on June 28, 2012, 04:12:06 AM
Post by: taps.lawrence on June 29, 2012, 01:39:52 AM
Consult ko lang effectiveness ng recycle paper (cellulose insulation). Would it work same as rockwool as dampening?
I'm planning to use it for a rehersal studio.
Thanks
Post by: mikep on June 29, 2012, 06:44:43 PM
Post by: mr. trigger on July 01, 2012, 09:32:43 AM
Post by: taps.lawrence on July 10, 2012, 08:45:15 PM
We need to consult something. We are planning to put up a rehearsal studio in a commercial area. Place is 80 m3. its to big to sound proof everything. We are planning to put a small room (3.5m x 3.5m). Wall will be a 12mm Gypsum rockwool 50kg 12mm gypsum with 2" x 2" wood stud.
Technically we don't need to really soundproof it but rather bring down the noise that will come out. Correct me if I am wrong but I think a got the room inside a room concept with my floor plan.
A full band may create approximately 110 dB spl if I am right. Will i achieve an outside rating of around 60 dB which I think would not disturb other businesses
Plus we are really on a tight budget
Hope you guys can help me. I've been researching a lot on this matters
Thanks
(http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s480x480/534911_3912180016351_841325096_n.jpg)
Post by: mikep on July 17, 2012, 05:43:55 PM
Post by: Xelly on July 17, 2012, 07:33:06 PM
If budget is an issue, forget glass fiber or rockwool inside the walling. These only contribute 2 to 3 dB lesser sound. Better to double or triple the walls, i.e., instead of using 1 1/2 gypsum per wall, make it two or three per face of wall. Use metal studs instead of wood. Metal is more inert than wood, thus better isolation. FWIW
+1
Masmaganda ang rockwool or glassfiber sa room treatment.
Post by: taps.lawrence on July 19, 2012, 03:58:16 PM
Thanks Sir Mikep for the advice.
after the construction of the wall treatment naman I'm thinking of putting drapes on 2 opposite wall and slanting the ceiling, if I recall it correctly in this forum about at least 18 degrees minimum to reduces or remove standing wave.
Acoustics is a very interesting. usually tamad ako magbasa but I can stay reading hours trying to understand
this link very helpful http://www.sae.edu/reference_material/audio/pages/fullindex.htm
Studio target construction is by Sept.
more power to all of you guys
Post by: mikep on July 19, 2012, 07:51:34 PM
after the construction of the wall treatment naman I'm thinking of putting drapes on 2 opposite wall and slanting the ceiling, if I recall it correctly in this forum about at least 18 degrees minimum to reduces or remove standing wave.
Acoustics is a very interesting. usually tamad ako magbasa but I can stay reading hours trying to understand
this link very helpful http://www.sae.edu/reference_material/audio/pages/fullindex.htm
Instead of using 2 X 2 wood studs, use 16 X 32 mm metal studs but double it (two studs per side) with a 50mm air gap. The bigger the air gap, the better isolation.
5 degrees of splay is good enough to prevent standing waves. But if you can spend 18 degrees, better.
Post by: mikep on July 25, 2012, 12:37:20 AM
Post by: bakit? on August 01, 2012, 09:32:52 PM
i am starting a rehearsal/recording studio.im interested in learning more about soundproofing/making my studio better diy.well heres what i need:
1.suppliers
2.info/advice on which cheap materials to use.,
3.studio designs that you have that i can copy(hehe)
salamat mga sir!
pm na lang or text(hehe) 09166829291
Post by: fretboard on September 28, 2012, 11:22:19 AM
ganito gamit ko sa isang project ko sa binangonan :)
para sa acoustic naman, nilalagyan ng fabric yung acoustic board para di mag bounce ang sound
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee308/fretmarks_otep/soundproof-Modelcopy.jpg)
Post by: mikep on October 01, 2012, 07:19:47 PM
Post by: fretboard on October 01, 2012, 07:54:16 PM
Sorry to say that putting fabric in any acoustic treatment will not affect the absorption coefficient of the treatment unless the fabric is backed with rubber coating. In such a case, the acoustic treatment will become a semi reflector. An acoustic tile covered with fabric will have the same acoustic property, i. e., absorption coefficient and would affect mostly high frequencies. Putting this type of acoustic treatment in the entire room would make the room boomy and will lack high frequency response. It is best to place acoustic tiles in the ceiling installed type E, that is with an air gap above it, normally held by T runners. FWIW
i will keep this in mind :) (for acoustics)
It is best to place acoustic tiles in the ceiling installed type E, that is with an air gap above it, normally held by T runners. FWIW
as an architect i never really designed a music studio before, the intention was to help :)
as for ceilings, i couldn't agree more , been using the said materials/method (well mostly for meeting rooms, A/V rooms, convention halls)
i just know what you mean :)
Post by: allhands on October 30, 2012, 02:54:35 PM
Post by: mr. trigger on January 18, 2013, 11:50:24 PM
http://www.facebook.com/avcbandrehearsalstudio
Post by: taps.lawrence on February 21, 2013, 09:58:13 PM
Post by: straightwire on March 09, 2013, 02:34:37 PM
Or recently may nakita akong parang lawanit na around 1/2 inch ang kapal mas ok kaya ito na gawing pinto
Post by: berbs on April 14, 2013, 01:05:01 AM
Is it okay? the sounds coming from the vehicles can still be heard inside. any advice? tight budget here. Thank you.
Post by: palaka on April 16, 2013, 10:54:45 PM
Post by: brownbread on May 12, 2013, 08:29:23 PM
back read time
salamat dito
Post by: brownbread on May 12, 2013, 09:09:24 PM
at may na basa na ako tungkol sa egg tray
actually sa rehearsal studio ko egg tray gamit
di talaga ito nakaka-soundproof kung hindi pang tanggal o pang kaunti ng vibration at static sound sa studio
hehehe :mrgreen:
laki ng gastos sa sound proofing
Post by: Xelly on May 13, 2013, 12:25:31 AM
laki ng gastos sa sound proofing+1
And pwedeng masayang yung malaking gastos kung hindi ito mapag-aaralan
Post by: brownbread on May 13, 2013, 04:27:55 PM
Quote
And pwedeng masayang yung malaking gastos kung hindi ito mapag-aaralan
tama kaya ito puti na mata kaka-backread
Post by: Wshad on May 16, 2013, 04:28:40 PM
The biggest problem was what seemed to be a strong room mode. There was one note that, when I struck it on the guitar, was much louder than the others. If memory serves, it was the E note on the 5th string.
I didn’t know of this forum then and would have asked advice here. I am impressed by the amount of expertice shown by the contributors here and their generosity in providing advice. The good thing though was that I had friends who were into acoustic treatment, and they provided free help.
A friend came over with a device that he plugged into the studio PA system and which then generated and analyzed different types of noise, some white noise, some loud ones. The device confirmed which was the dominant frequency in the room, the frequency that the room tended to resonate with or emphasize. Here is a photo of my friend with the device in the studio, before we applied any acoustic remedies. That was several months ago
.
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/abstamaria/roommodes_zpsc6b3233c.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/abstamaria/media/roommodes_zpsc6b3233c.jpg.html)
In any case, we went ahead with recommended acoustic treatment, put absorbent panels on the ceilings and some walls. These made a remarkable difference in the room.
I’m just sharing my experience and hope that will benefit others building a home rehearsal studio. I’ll bring MikeP over also, as I am sure he will suggest where we can improve things.
WShad
Post by: mikep on May 23, 2013, 06:22:12 PM
Post by: botbenz on May 23, 2013, 06:32:16 PM
WShad, is that Martin? Looks like him.Exactly what I thought. But the last time I had dinner with Martin, he looked even thinner. Must've been a recent birthday indulgence. :)
Just chimed in, after years off this forum. Glad to see master mikep's still dishing sound advice :) in spite of the looped questions. :)
Post by: Wshad on May 23, 2013, 09:54:20 PM
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/abstamaria/Studio_zps86d8a48b.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/abstamaria/media/Studio_zps86d8a48b.jpg.html)
Post by: mikep on May 24, 2013, 01:17:01 AM
Post by: Tarkuz Toccata on May 24, 2013, 02:58:42 PM
A friend came over with a device that he plugged into the studio PA system and which then generated and analyzed different types of noise, some white noise, some loud ones. The device confirmed which was the dominant frequency in the room, the frequency that the room tended to resonate with or emphasize. Here is a photo of my friend with the device in the studio, before we applied any acoustic remedies.
Martin is my friend too...
I know that a real-time analyzer (RTA), test tones, reference/measurement mic, and maybe sound pressure level (SPL) meter are needed to measure room response. Pink noise is one of the test tones, for sure. Measurements should be taken at different listening locations in the room. What is the step-by-step procedure?
I understand that a flat response is not necessarily the desired room response. Is a smooth response more important to achieve?
Also, I am very interested to know a quick and easy way to measure RT60.
:-)
Post by: Wshad on May 25, 2013, 11:04:51 PM
Ours is a rehearsal studio, and we don’t record there, so perhaps the concerns are simpler. The principal goal was to have a clean sound for everyone and for everyone to hear everyone else. With electric guitars and a loud drummer, that was a problem. We also had that dominant note.
The room dimensions were not good, and windows and cabinets limited where treatment could be placed. The compromise was acoustic panels on the ceiling and one wall, and a few standing panels. The improvement was dramatic, though, and even with the theater system became clearer and sound placement more accurate; That bonus was a surprise to me. The treatment can be seen here. So far it works, but I am sure we can improve it a bit more.
(http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad112/abstamaria/DSC00398_2_zps058eb43b.jpg) (http://s927.photobucket.com/user/abstamaria/media/DSC00398_2_zps058eb43b.jpg.html)
Post by: mikep on June 04, 2013, 06:20:08 PM
I know that a real-time analyzer (RTA), test tones, reference/measurement mic, and maybe sound pressure level (SPL) meter are needed to measure room response. Pink noise is one of the test tones, for sure. Measurements should be taken at different listening locations in the room. What is the step-by-step procedure?
I understand that a flat response is not necessarily the desired room response. Is a smooth response more important to achieve?
Also, I am very interested to know a quick and easy way to measure RT60.
:-)
You have to have an SPL meter or computer program capable of measuring RT60 and RTA. It will be nice if that system is capable of doing MLS response as well so you can see the distribution of the various frequencies and the room modes in 3D or 2D waterfall. I use several meters and programs and I have one that comes out with tone bursts and it gives you the RT60 on each of the 6 frequencies from 125 hz. to 4 khz. You need to feed tones or white or pink noise into a sound system. The RTA or program would receive or read the room response through its microphone, and all the details you need are shown for your analysis. The important thing is the analysis of the result which can give you an idea of how the room sounds. The success of the room analysis is in the interpretation of the room measurement. Then, you either do an electronic correction of the system (not the room) or an acoustic method where you add low frequency absorbers, diffusers or reflectors.
Post by: el.sol on June 30, 2013, 09:49:02 PM
im planning to fix my music room. (concrete walls, floor, ceiling and double doors)
ano maganda gamitin para ok yung sound sa loob di boomy and also minimized din ang sound sa labas..
im using this room for rehearsals and also recording.. I need advice for its improvement
im currently using egg tray foams sa walls and mango trays sa ceiling. however, i want it to look neater.. any suggestions? pls post your replies or send me a PM
thanks! :-D
Post by: Xelly on June 30, 2013, 10:08:17 PM
ask ko lang mga master...Backread mo lang bro marami kang makukuha dito :-)
im planning to fix my music room. (concrete walls, floor, ceiling and double doors)
ano maganda gamitin para ok yung sound sa loob di boomy and also minimized din ang sound sa labas..
im using this room for rehearsals and also recording.. I need advice for its improvement
im currently using egg tray foams sa walls and mango trays sa ceiling. however, i want it to look neater.. any suggestions? pls post your replies or send me a PM
thanks! :-D
Post by: botbenz on June 30, 2013, 10:32:50 PM
im planning to fix my music room. (concrete walls, floor, ceiling and double doors)yup, for your needs, backread. :)
ano maganda gamitin para ok yung sound sa loob di boomy and also minimized din ang sound sa labas..
im using this room for rehearsals and also recording.. I need advice for its improvement
im currently using egg tray foams sa walls and mango trays sa ceiling. however, i want it to look neater.. any suggestions? pls post your replies or send me a PM
but if you ask why you must backread:
* egg tray foams and mango trays don't work well for absorbing boominess;
* minimize sound into and out of the room, you need mass—lots of it, and not the kind you hear on sundays. :D
Post by: el.sol on July 01, 2013, 06:43:21 AM
Post by: mikep on July 01, 2013, 04:46:33 PM
mike pedero
tracksacoustics
Post by: brownbread on July 02, 2013, 08:46:27 PM
so bale ipapagawa ko yung rooftop namin para magkaroon ng two rooms
1 room is for rehearsal and yung isa mas maliit is for the control room
1st question
ano ba magandang division para sa dalawang room ko concrete o wood. lalagyan ko sya ng salamin para may view mula sa control papuntangng rehearsal.
2. anong salamin magandang gamitin at may limitation po ba ang laki ng salamin
3. rooftop po kasi so buhos sya. papa-tiles ko yung flooring enough po ba yun para di marining sa 2ng floor o may iba pa akong gagamitin para sa flooring po.
4. at 3.5m floor to ceiling ano po magandang pang proof sa ceiling. so ang bubong ko ay yero lang at steal trusses
problem 1.
madami pong nakapalibot na bahay sa lugar ko eh baka ma-baranggay ako pag di ko na gawa po ito ng tama.
10k sa ceiling at division ng room kasya po ba :?
sorry sa mahabng post. salamat mga sir
Post by: skin on July 03, 2013, 10:24:43 AM
makikigulo lang mga sir
so bale ipapagawa ko yung rooftop namin para magkaroon ng two rooms
1 room is for rehearsal and yung isa mas maliit is for the control room
1st question
ano ba magandang division para sa dalawang room ko concrete o wood. lalagyan ko sya ng salamin para may view mula sa control papuntangng rehearsal.
Concrete.
2. anong salamin magandang gamitin at may limitation po ba ang laki ng salamin
Dapat dalawang salamin. May gap in between.
3. rooftop po kasi so buhos sya. papa-tiles ko yung flooring enough po ba yun para di marining sa 2ng floor o may iba pa akong gagamitin para sa flooring po.
Kailangan ata floating yung floor mo.
4. at 3.5m floor to ceiling ano po magandang pang proof sa ceiling. so ang bubong ko ay yero lang at steal trusses
problem 1.
madami pong nakapalibot na bahay sa lugar ko eh baka ma-baranggay ako pag di ko na gawa po ito ng tama.
10k sa ceiling at division ng room kasya po ba :?
Kulang ang 10K.
sorry sa mahabng post. salamat mga sir
Post by: brownbread on July 03, 2013, 08:37:43 PM
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/14405003/board+rockwool+insulation+%28price+list+inside+this+ad.%29?referralKeywords=rockwool&event=Search+Ranking,Position,1-6,6 (http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/14405003/board+rockwool+insulation+%28price+list+inside+this+ad.%29?referralKeywords=rockwool&event=Search+Ranking,Position,1-6,6)
Post by: Xelly on July 05, 2013, 08:24:44 AM
ito ba yung rockwoolTama yan bro. Pero yung board type kunin mo wag yung blanket type para masmadali gamitin.
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/14405003/board+rockwool+insulation+%28price+list+inside+this+ad.%29?referralKeywords=rockwool&event=Search+Ranking,Position,1-6,6 (http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/14405003/board+rockwool+insulation+%28price+list+inside+this+ad.%29?referralKeywords=rockwool&event=Search+Ranking,Position,1-6,6)
Post by: peeves24 on July 05, 2013, 10:06:09 AM
(http://cdn.sulitstatic.com/images/2013/0426/161916230_072910556175237788232736304232144372bb7a7195f2bb8e9a59b13aeac6e1d2bbe60ee52c.jpg)
http://sulit.com.ph/14782683
may tira pa kasi ako na 2 sheets galing sa car audio project ko. i think this is made from asphalt and it has mass but having never seen a real putty pad before, i dont know if they are the same.
Post by: brownbread on July 05, 2013, 04:24:06 PM
mas mahal ba yun. at anong size
Post by: brownbread on July 05, 2013, 04:36:10 PM
ok po ba price dyan.
may bare , wire, foil, velimat
which is the best po sa rock wool
Post by: skin on July 05, 2013, 04:55:34 PM
Depends on how you will use it. Yung iba binabalot sa cloth and wood framed so bare lang.
Post by: brownbread on July 05, 2013, 05:11:06 PM
bare lang oki na,
salamat po.
go na to :razz:
Post by: botbenz on July 05, 2013, 05:41:05 PM
pwede ba tong substitute sa putty pad for electrical receptacles?aren't putty pads used like clay, to mold around electrical receptacles? is acoustipad clay-like?
may tira pa kasi ako na 2 sheets galing sa car audio project ko. i think this is made from asphalt and it has mass but having never seen a real putty pad before, i dont know if they are the same.
Post by: peeves24 on July 22, 2013, 09:08:04 AM
anyway, im just going with silicon kasi binago ko na yung design nung walls para 2 holes lang gagawin ko: 1 for the split AC duct and the other 1 for a single 1/2" pvc electrical conduit.
final construction starts this week but i am finding it hard to source 16mm gypsum
Post by: peeves24 on July 26, 2013, 01:31:47 PM
http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/15070578/SOUND+PROOFING?referralKeywords=rockwool&event=Search+Ranking,Position,1-11,11 (http://www.sulit.com.ph/index.php/view+classifieds/id/15070578/SOUND+PROOFING?referralKeywords=rockwool&event=Search+Ranking,Position,1-11,11)
ok po ba price dyan.
may bare , wire, foil, velimat
which is the best po sa rock wool
di ko makita ad e pero kung yan yung tig 400 per 50mm 0.6mx1.2m na bare rigid rockwall, mahal yan. sa jea steel ako bumili ng rockwool, 275 each.
Post by: brownbread on July 27, 2013, 02:47:08 PM
Post by: j3yps on August 01, 2013, 02:05:34 AM
Post by: peeves24 on August 03, 2013, 11:55:42 AM
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/9427305920_586919f1e8_z_d.jpg)
inside out walls style ni john sayers
Post by: Xelly on August 03, 2013, 12:54:46 PM
off to a good start
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/9427305920_586919f1e8_z_d.jpg)
inside out walls style ni john sayers
Nice!
Post by: peeves24 on August 04, 2013, 09:36:55 AM
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3714/9424529153_058b8309a8_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3774/9433348632_6c493513bc_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2883/9427301046_57af026518_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5348/9424532795_474bc98e5a_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7439/9424535231_0a057277ff_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2860/9430564645_e2bb7ac23e_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/9433342668_2e57e3633c_z_d.jpg)
Post by: brownbread on August 04, 2013, 04:01:22 PM
ano po sizre ng isang board sir
Post by: palaka on August 04, 2013, 04:18:31 PM
day 1:
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3714/9424529153_058b8309a8_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3774/9433348632_6c493513bc_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2883/9427301046_57af026518_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5348/9424532795_474bc98e5a_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7439/9424535231_0a057277ff_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2860/9430564645_e2bb7ac23e_z_d.jpg)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5337/9433342668_2e57e3633c_z_d.jpg)
kaabang abang to sir pao.mismo!
Post by: peeves24 on August 04, 2013, 09:58:12 PM
kano score mo po sa gympsum
ano po sizre ng isang board sir
mas maganda pre contact mo na lang si jea steel industries para sila magbigay ng quote sa yo
day2: tapos na yung four walls
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3695/9436599966_f7524a989b_z_d.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3832/9433828719_c9d0c1311c_z_d.jpg)
for day 3: door and window installation, gypsum at rockwool sa ceiling, AC installation and electrical na lang
pending pa yung bagong flooring, nagkaron ng family emergency at nadivert na naman yung funds pero masasabi ko lang ang sarap pa rin ng feeling na malapit na matupad ang pangarap :)
Post by: Xelly on August 05, 2013, 06:17:26 AM
Post by: peeves24 on August 05, 2013, 12:34:41 PM
Post by: brownbread on August 05, 2013, 12:52:31 PM
sakin after 2 weeks ito pa lang converted rooftop to studio
almost nothing pa.
external is hardiflex lang and palaman ng rockwool then 1/4 plywood?
ok kaya idea ko
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1990/xi3u.jpg)
Post by: peeves24 on August 05, 2013, 04:24:39 PM
may time din na ayaw ko na tapusin at electronic drums na lang ginamit ko pero nagbalik loob lang. eto na yung phase 2 na ginagawa na yung room within a room.
ang nipis ng walls mo, wala din effect yan kung yan lang yung gagamitin mo.
Post by: brownbread on August 05, 2013, 08:25:19 PM
di ko kasi apagawang cement kasi kinakabahan erpats ko baka di kayanin ng pundasyon ng bahay.
anyway i already did some test on sound bago ko ito ipaayos
inakyat ko yung PA ko which is a pair of 500w speaker
and actually halos mahina lang bagsak ng tunog pag nasa baba ka ng rooftop
i dunno if sarado na sya ganun pa din
:idea:
Post by: peeves24 on August 06, 2013, 09:16:16 PM
1. aircon will be installed in 3 days
2. wood flooring - suspended for lack of funds. laki ng gap sa ilalim ng inner door tuloy.
3. acoustic treatment - select places pa lang. wala fabric na pang cover sa four walls ng rockwool tapos kailangan ko maghanap ng decorative wood para sa mga helmholtz resonators.
noong 2011, nagsimula sya sa ganito
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5220/5386155592_61fe66d5a8_z_d.jpg)
50 sheets gypsum for 3 layers, 76 pieces of 2x4 lumber, 1500 gypsum screws later
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7441/9451869698_5b3df06ebd_z_d.jpg)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5334/9449087077_4b46386f38_z_d.jpg)
room within a room - average gap between inner and outer walls is 3"
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3761/9440595341_350c5ff021_z_d.jpg)
some gaps are 6" wide. i had a lot of wasted space between the front and back walls due to pillars.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3822/9440596377_41ce221525_z_d.jpg)
dami rockwool, 1/4 lang yun nung binili ko
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5474/9433331298_eaf099c1a2_z_d.jpg)
ilalagay ko yung rockwool sa gitna ng studs tapos babalutan ng tela at palo china
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7330/9449080641_907d86c72c_z_d.jpg)
for the inner room door, i used the same door from before the renovation
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2857/9451866848_34007667ff_z_d.jpg)
last layer ng gypsum natapos kanina
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7407/9449077191_e738eb7723_z_d.jpg)
i used LED bulbs on track lights para small holes lang ang gagawin sa gypsum
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3785/9451863010_14151d60f8_z_d.jpg)
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3782/9451868224_91389ce6dd_z_d.jpg)
the only serious hole on my gypsum wall is for the split aircon duct
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5529/9443384612_4a0f6a6002_z_d.jpg)
di ko lang nakunan yung window, i have a usable window which is seen on the 3rd pic. i really wanted the window to be glass to let sunlight in but with a strict budget constraint. i opted for a 2x4 frame with 3/4 marine ply on the outsite and another 2 layers of gypsum. very heavy.
salamat ng marami kay sir mikep at kay botbenz at sa iba pang nakakausap ko dito sa thread :D
mission accomplished
Post by: brownbread on August 08, 2013, 09:47:30 PM
super like. very detailed yung process.
sarap ng pakiramdam pag may na accomplished ka sir diba. good luck
Post by: peeves24 on August 08, 2013, 09:55:46 PM
siguro 2 years pa ulit para matapos lahat ng gusto ko
Post by: brownbread on August 08, 2013, 10:00:27 PM
sir pa pm mo naman sakit about sa rockwool mo san ka na kamura need ko eh kahit blanket
Post by: peeves24 on August 09, 2013, 08:11:43 PM
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5321/9472640820_fdc11234b5_z_d.jpg)
Post by: Xelly on August 09, 2013, 09:44:43 PM
fabric cover
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5321/9472640820_fdc11234b5_z_d.jpg)
Gondoh!! Saan mo binili tela bro at anong material? Grabe ang kati sa balat niyang rockwool!!
Post by: peeves24 on August 09, 2013, 10:01:49 PM
yup sobrang kati pero natuto na ko. bumili din ako ng 2-piece kapote, yung long sleeves at pants ha hindi yung bikini :mrgreen:
eto yung close up nya
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2807/9473216644_f6ace0a88e_z_d.jpg)
limited colors lang e. white green at etong red. bibili pa ulit ako ng white para palitan yung cover ng panels ko na ilalagay sa ceiling
Post by: Xelly on August 09, 2013, 10:56:03 PM
Ginawa ko dati nagsuot ako ng longsleeves pang protection. Hanep lumulusot din pala yung mga hibla ng rockwool sa fabric ng longsleeves! :lol: :eek:
Post by: peeves24 on August 25, 2013, 08:14:19 PM
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2829/9588069851_f2431b2e5e_z_d.jpg)
the only thing left to do is find a supplier of true-sized wood for the walls that will comprise as hemlholtz resonators. i need to kill the flutter echo.
i also planning build a skyline diffuser from EPS (polystyrene, yung material for hot cups) i just hope the manufacturer from taguig will allow me to buy small portions.
Post by: LUDWIG_LOUISE on August 28, 2013, 01:47:00 AM
Post by: peeves24 on August 28, 2013, 12:36:55 PM
Post by: LUDWIG_LOUISE on August 28, 2013, 03:27:34 PM
cover lang yung tela ng rockwool. hindi pa tapos yang walls. may wood strips pa ko na ilalagay para maging hemlholtz resonatorah ok...sir patingin ng picture once natapos na.medyo nakukuha ko na iyung mga dapat gawin at dapat bilin .thanks so much...
Post by: straightwire on September 23, 2013, 04:36:51 PM
Post by: mikep on September 24, 2013, 08:38:36 PM
Post by: straightwire on September 25, 2013, 11:32:29 AM
Floor to ceiling, kanto ng room, front or back. The thicker your absorptive material like glass fiber or rock wool, the lower the frequency you will be absorbing.thanks for the reply sir
Post by: j3yps on September 28, 2013, 01:59:00 AM
now with floor. the room is officially sealed and the increase in noise reduction was noticeable.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2829/9588069851_f2431b2e5e_z_d.jpg)
[/quote
Hi sir, how much po inabot yung floor nyo and saan kayo bakabili and nagpainstall?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on October 08, 2013, 07:38:59 PM
cover lang yung tela ng rockwool. hindi pa tapos yang walls. may wood strips pa ko na ilalagay para maging hemlholtz resonator
Congrats sir. Ang ganda. Paano niyo gagawin yun helmholtz resonator? I have a problem in the 58-63 hz frequency. Eqing helped a little pero too much EQ suppresses the dynamics.
Post by: mikep on October 09, 2013, 04:01:46 AM
Post by: Nelson de Leon on October 09, 2013, 09:49:54 AM
How were you able to know the offending frequency? Did you use any measurement device? Is it booming at that frequency range? You have modal problems. The main problem is your room ratio (dimensions). You have to make a Helmholtz resonator that zeroes in on those frequencies you mentioned. A tuned box is your best solution. You can find some designs in the net as well as the formulas and computations on how to do it. Good luck.
You are definitely correct. It's modal problem. Room mode due to it's dimensions.
I used an RTA to arrive at the offending frequency. Plus my familiarity with certain tracks which i use for reference. And yes, it's booming. I estimate it to be more than 6 db. I'll try to google again re Helmholtz resonator. I haven't encountered a tuned box? Though i've also researched re large hollow wood panels. I keep you posted if you don't mind.
Post by: Nelson de Leon on October 09, 2013, 11:04:58 AM
A tuned box is your best solution. You can find some designs in the net as well as the formulas and computations on how to do it. Good luck.
Tuned box meaning slot resonator? Or the Panel resonator?
Post by: mikep on October 10, 2013, 08:03:11 PM
Post by: straightwire on October 16, 2013, 12:22:32 PM
Post by: otacon1987 on October 23, 2013, 04:55:38 AM
Post by: mikep on October 25, 2013, 10:06:39 PM
YES. Only problem is 100 mm goes down only to a limited frequency range. To build an effective bass trap that goes down to 60 hz., you need a lot of space.
ok lang ba na lagyan ng 1/8 plywood ung likod ng frame na gagawin ko.
YES
When mounting the frame to the wall is there a standard height from the floor or kailangan nasa center ng floor and ceiling
Earheight.
Post by: choco_bam on November 04, 2013, 07:39:53 PM
Will the glass rattle ...size is 20×20 inches ...plan to install 8 panels...4 in each wall....:-) need advise:-)
Post by: Nelson de Leon on November 04, 2013, 09:27:14 PM
Was planning to put fix glass panels to a 30 sq mtr studio ......it is beside a internet cafe ....divided by a wood wall........my plan is to make the studio look bigger when inside the room......
Will the glass rattle ...size is 20×20 inches ...plan to install 8 panels...4 in each wall....:-) need advise:-)
It will not rattle if installed properly.
Post by: choco_bam on November 04, 2013, 10:49:53 PM
Post by: straightwire on November 05, 2013, 12:27:33 PM
About to make bass trap measuring 2'X4' the thickness of the rockwool available is 50mm dapat ba pagpatungin ko ung 2 block para to make it 100mm mas effective ba ung makapal,thanks for the reply sir.God bless
YES. Only problem is 100 mm goes down only to a limited frequency range. To build an effective bass trap that goes down to 60 hz., you need a lot of space.
ok lang ba na lagyan ng 1/8 plywood ung likod ng frame na gagawin ko.
YES
When mounting the frame to the wall is there a standard height from the floor or kailangan nasa center ng floor and ceiling
Earheight.
Post by: mikep on November 11, 2013, 11:45:19 PM
Was planning to put fix glass panels to a 30 sq mtr studio ......it is beside a internet cafe ....divided by a wood wall........my plan is to make the studio look bigger when inside the room......
Will the glass rattle ...size is 20×20 inches ...plan to install 8 panels...4 in each wall....:-) need advise:-)
It will not rattle, unless they are not properly sealed and you put a lot of low frequency energy into the room. Caulk the edges well with silicon sealant. Make sure it is sealed well.
Post by: mikep on November 11, 2013, 11:48:44 PM
As i follow the forum ......installing a carpet on two walls as curtains and a floor carpet will have at list a descent simple solution for small rooms.....: :?
Putting carpet as final finish on two walls and flooring will leave the room deficient of high frequencies. Your room will be boomy. You have to control the bass as well. Carpet does not absorb low frequencies; absorbs effectively from 1 khz. up.
Post by: in_the_tent on November 22, 2013, 11:31:11 AM
Little by little, I managed to put up a simple home mixing or a vocal tracking corner(not even a room).
I was wondering what you're gonna do to treat the acoustics with very minimal budget. Being honest here. Or maybe you think nothing needs to be done. Sorry, budget goes to the baby po kasi.
I'm kinda ok listening to the audio through the monitors. I think di pa best ung napapakinggan ko.
The issue is kapag pumalakpak ka me sound na "toing".
Sa picture nakalagay kung anong material ang mga walls. Wooden floor po as you can see partially sa pic. Plywood ceiling din. On the right side when you're facing the monitors ay ang remaining space ng room. Maliit lang. Mga malaki ng konti sa nasakop kong lugar. Bintana ang dulo. Ang acoustic treatment ko sa side na un ay ang sinampay. Haha.
Actually, sa likod ng chair pwede rin me sinampay. Kung maraming nilabhan. :-D.
Pls. let me hear your thoughts. Thank you & God bless.
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/brian_aris/BeFunky_1479508_10151889081991245_1726819043_njpg.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/brian_aris/media/BeFunky_1479508_10151889081991245_1726819043_njpg.jpg.html)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/brian_aris/BeFunky_1463444_10151889071061245_1432976753_njpg.jpg) (http://s44.photobucket.com/user/brian_aris/media/BeFunky_1463444_10151889071061245_1432976753_njpg.jpg.html)
Post by: j3yps on January 11, 2014, 07:45:14 PM
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Post by: Nelson de Leon on January 11, 2014, 07:51:52 PM
Tanong ko pang po kung saan ba magandang bumili ng rubber gasket for doors (sound proofing) yung nillagay sa paligid pati narin yung sa ilalim mga masters :)
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Try Ace hardware. But I'm not sure if they have the rubber type. they do have the foam type though.
sent from my Nokia 3210 android via papatalk
Post by: j3yps on January 11, 2014, 08:07:16 PM
Try Ace hardware. But I'm not sure if they have the rubber type. they do have the foam type though.
sent from my Nokia 3210 android via papatalk
Are the ones available in ACE HARDWARE enough for soundproofing?
I bought the Raven RP48 (6mm Height, P519.75 /5m) But i don't think this is enough. Baka po may iba pa kayong idea?
Post by: Nelson de Leon on January 11, 2014, 09:02:45 PM
Are the ones available in ACE HARDWARE enough for soundproofing?
I bought the Raven RP48 (6mm Height, P519.75 /5m) But i don't think this is enough. Baka po may iba pa kayong idea?
I think Raven nga yun nakita ko. Can't think of any na other than to go the DIY route by using rubber interiors sliced into strips or the rubberized plastic used in aluminum windows.
sent from my Nokia 3210 android via papatalk
Post by: peeves24 on January 12, 2014, 07:03:04 AM
Post by: j3yps on January 12, 2014, 10:58:12 AM
rubber para sa windshield ng kotse. dami binibenta sa banawe
Yohown! Maraming salamat sir :)
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Post by: peeves24 on January 12, 2014, 07:45:39 PM
Post by: j3yps on January 13, 2014, 01:24:33 AM
himdi pala pang windshield yun. weather seal sa pinto ng kotse
Copy sir, buti pala hindi pa ako bumili hehe :)
Any idea sa price and kung saang store mura bumili dun?
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Post by: kirax on March 06, 2014, 04:21:31 PM
TIA :D
Post by: skin on March 07, 2014, 11:25:52 AM
Mga sir san kaya may murang mabibilhan ng rockwool mejo mahal kasi sa sulit e,
TIA :D
Mura na yung nasa Sulit.
Post by: Xelly on March 07, 2014, 03:30:27 PM
Mura na yung nasa Sulit.
+1
May kamahalan din talaga ang mga Rockwool.
Post by: sinosimelo on March 25, 2014, 05:13:02 PM
Iniisip ko kung lalagyan ko ng eggtray-shaped foam yung wooden sides, para sa labas di rinig yung guitars ko, 30-40 watts Solidstate
Basically ganito sya:
____________________________________
| | ^ |
| | | |
| | Concrete -> |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | <--- WOOD |
R | | | |
O | | | |
O | |________V___________________________|
M | HALLWAY
s |______________________________
ROOMS
wala kasi akong experience sa ganito e.. sa lahat ng tinirahan ko puro semento yung paligid. iniisip ko kasi baka maasar sakin yung mga nasa kabilang hallway. aabot ba sa kanila yung tunog ng guitars?
Post by: fretboard on March 25, 2014, 05:18:15 PM
hi i have a question, im planning to move to a new apartment.
Iniisip ko kung lalagyan ko ng eggtray-shaped foam yung wooden sides, para sa labas di rinig yung guitars ko, 30-40 watts Solidstate
Basically ganito sya:
____________________________________
| | ^ |
| | | |
| | Concrete -> |
| | |
| | |
| | |
| | <--- WOOD |
R | | | |
O | | | |
O | |________V___________________________|
M | HALLWAY
s |______________________________
ROOMS
wala kasi akong experience sa ganito e.. sa lahat ng tinirahan ko puro semento yung paligid. iniisip ko kasi baka maasar sakin yung mga nasa kabilang hallway. aabot ba sa kanila yung tunog ng guitars?
hindi po enough yung sound absorbing foam sir, mag headphone nalang po kayo, kung may headset out yung amp nyo.
Post by: sinosimelo on March 25, 2014, 05:50:44 PM
hindi po enough yung sound absorbing foam sir, mag headphone nalang po kayo, kung may headset out yung amp nyo.
Ah i see. Salamat reply! di nalang siguro ako lilipat dun. hehe :-D
Post by: mikep on March 27, 2014, 07:48:21 PM
Post by: oncommc on April 21, 2014, 09:05:42 PM
Post by: mikep on April 22, 2014, 12:13:50 AM
Post by: j3yps on April 22, 2014, 12:36:30 AM
Post by: Nelson de Leon on April 22, 2014, 12:48:28 AM
Anybody else experiencing condensation in the Vocal Booth window? this is the 2nd time this is happening, i already put tons of silica gel inside before sealing it. it is sealed but i don't know why this is happening. temp isn't that different between the mixing room and inside the booth.
Must be humidity from the room where the condensation forms.
Sent from my Nokia 3210 android using tapatim.
Post by: oncommc on April 22, 2014, 01:17:47 AM
Post by: mikep on April 22, 2014, 03:26:12 PM
Post by: mikep on April 22, 2014, 03:27:40 PM
Anybody else experiencing condensation in the Vocal Booth window? this is the 2nd time this is happening, i already put tons of silica gel inside before sealing it. it is sealed but i don't know why this is happening. temp isn't that different between the mixing room and inside the booth.
There is a duct or air con vent that is hitting your glass window directly.
Post by: j3yps on April 22, 2014, 04:01:31 PM
There is a duct or air con vent that is hitting your glass window directly.
So the air coming frkm the ac unit shoudn directly hit the window sir?
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Post by: mikep on April 23, 2014, 12:11:10 AM
Post by: j3yps on April 23, 2014, 01:10:40 AM
As much as you can, you want the air conditioning to be distributed all over the room. By having a vent hitting the glass directly, you are making the glass colder than anything else, including the vacuum (supposedly) or static air filled void between the two glass panes. Once those things happen, there is condensation. The result? Moisture.
I tried this sir, unfortunately the condesation still happens.
**edit
It's all good na sir. We will reconstruct the window to cure this.
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Post by: tam_guitar on July 09, 2014, 11:09:46 AM
now with floor. the room is officially sealed and the increase in noise reduction was noticeable.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2829/9588069851_f2431b2e5e_z_d.jpg)
the only thing left to do is find a supplier of true-sized wood for the walls that will comprise as hemlholtz resonators. i need to kill the flutter echo.
i also planning build a skyline diffuser from EPS (polystyrene, yung material for hot cups) i just hope the manufacturer from taguig will allow me to buy small portions.
Isn't best practice to carpet the floor as well since sound will bounce pretty well on it especially if it is flat and shiny?
Post by: mikep on July 12, 2014, 08:15:15 PM
Post by: peeves24 on July 25, 2014, 01:01:05 PM
Post by: Nelson de Leon on July 25, 2014, 01:13:31 PM
yup too much absorption besides, i have never liked the sound of my drums in any carpeted room
Yes. I agree with you. Especially for listening only or playback.
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Post by: alien_inside on July 28, 2014, 12:24:52 PM
Post by: hahaha! on August 16, 2014, 02:28:34 PM
Post by: Nelson de Leon on August 16, 2014, 03:06:13 PM
ask ko lang po kung saan mura bumili ng rockwool?
Mga sir san kaya may murang mabibilhan ng rockwool mejo mahal kasi sa sulit e,
TIA :D
Mura na yung nasa Sulit.
+1
May kamahalan din talaga ang mga Rockwool.
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Post by: franee on September 25, 2014, 09:31:51 PM
I'm currently in the planning stages of building a rehearsal studio. Later we would be upgrading it to become a recording studio as well.
I'm aiming for at least 60 STC. I'm thinking of doing a double concrete wall (M-A-M system).
My current dilemna is I don't see any literature about the STC rating of this kind of system.
It's kinda like this:
6in CHB -- .9m air gap (hallway) -- 2in structure gap -- 6in CHB -- 2 layers of gypsum board
Questions:
1. How much STC rating would this system have?
2. Do you think the inner CHB wall is overkill?
3. Is having a 1/4/hardiflex + steel stud with rockwool + 2 layers of gypsum board more practical/better than having the inner CHB?
4. Which is more expensive? #2 or #3?
Hope you can help me out guys :D
Thanks!
Post by: El Mariachi on October 10, 2014, 11:13:30 PM
Details:
- All sides/corners are concrete
- Roof or ceiling is plywood
- Floor is tiled with vinyl (wood design)
- Window type a/c already installed
Layout:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2dhuw3m.jpg)
Post by: johnxm on October 12, 2014, 10:09:59 PM
Post by: Nelson de Leon on October 19, 2014, 08:57:51 PM
Hi mga master,
I'm currently in the planning stages of building a rehearsal studio. Later we would be upgrading it to become a recording studio as well.
I'm aiming for at least 60 STC. I'm thinking of doing a double concrete wall (M-A-M system).
My current dilemna is I don't see any literature about the STC rating of this kind of system.
It's kinda like this:
6in CHB -- .9m air gap (hallway) -- 2in structure gap -- 6in CHB -- 2 layers of gypsum board
Questions:
1. How much STC rating would this system have?
2. Do you think the inner CHB wall is overkill?
3. Is having a 1/4/hardiflex + steel stud with rockwool + 2 layers of gypsum board more practical/better than having the inner CHB?
4. Which is more expensive? #2 or #3?
Hope you can help me out guys :D
Thanks!
Ang STC sir AFAIK is supposedly measured para malaman mo ang rating ng room mo. Inner CHB is not overkill. May mga iba, buhos pa nga ang ginagamit para mass loading talaga.
If you want something better than hardiflex, try MDF.
Help po mga masters and gurus! I've been planning this for a long time, hingi po sana ako suggestions regarding sa balak kong studio for rent (rehearsals, recording, etc.).. Ang problema ko is how to soundproof it considering na katabi ng kwarto eh law firm at sa taas naman ay Spa! :-o , Sana matulungan niyo ako! I'm not renting by the way, ako ung Lessor.. :-D gusto ko lang ma-pursue recording studio business ko.. dream come true sa tutuusin. :-D
Details:
- All sides/corners are concrete
- Roof or ceiling is plywood
- Floor is tiled with vinyl (wood design)
- Window type a/c already installed
Layout:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2dhuw3m.jpg)
Basically tahimik naman ang law office and spa. Double walling talaga if you want serious soundproofing. But from the way you describe your room, observe mo muna kung saan at gaano kalakas ang unwanted noise, kung meron.
Post by: mikep on November 07, 2014, 01:54:56 AM
Post by: rockarolla on December 08, 2014, 09:00:41 AM
Post by: JAMD on January 29, 2016, 04:08:13 PM
Post by: peeves24 on February 01, 2016, 08:54:53 AM
Post by: spasmic on June 23, 2016, 03:22:57 PM
Anyone have tried sound blankets for sound proofing?
Are you talking about Acoustiblok sir?
Ito din sana gusto kong itanong kung may naka try na ba nito (effective kaya?)
Post by: bulok on January 05, 2017, 10:28:50 PM
Post by: Mr. Xerath on January 29, 2017, 10:47:38 AM
Okay ba pangbawas ng room reverb ang fleece blankets? Inisip ko kasi na instead of buying expensive acoustic panels/foams ay blankets na lang ang ibitin sa walls at sa ceilings siguro
Ironic kasi hindi effective ang acoustic foam tapos napakamahal pa. :lol:
Usually yung mga hindi nagreresearch about bass trapping, sound insulating ends up buying eggshell foam and mindlessly placing it on walls. :eek:
Pwede yan in the meantime kaso hindi gaanong effective yan since manipis at kulang sa density.
Kung gusto niyo ng effective pero mura, Rockwool ang solusyon dyan :-D
Density: 60kg/m³ or 80kg/m³
Dimensions: 2 feet x 4 feet x 2" thick rockwool panels are preferable.
(Note: Iba ang Fiberglass sa Mineral wool (rockwool). Ang alam ko fiberglass ay less dense at mahirap iinstall since mas skin irritant siya.)
Corners ang 1st priority ng room kasi dito naiipon yung excess reverb na usually ang main problem. Angle mo nalang sa corners ng room para may airgap sa likod ng panels (floor to ceiling). Lalong mas iimprove ang pag-absorb ng bass kung may airgap. Pwede mo pagpatungin yung dalawang panels para maging 4" siya.
Meron sa sulit.ph or sa OLX ganito, inquire ka nalang dun :)
Usually php 300+ isang 60kg/m³ 2' x 4' x 2" rockwool board.
Post by: Mr. Xerath on February 01, 2017, 01:16:48 PM
JEASTEEL 442-2681. Tinanong ko kung meron silang rockwool, wala naman daw silang ganoon.
Hindi na ba sila supplier ng rockwool? :-(
Nabasa ko kasi previous threads sa jeasteel sila kumuha ng rockwool na mura.
Sa ngayon nagcanvas ako, 450 ea. 80kg/m3 rockwool brand board type 2'x4'x50mm yung pinakamura kong natanong as of now. Mura na po ba yun?
Post by: peeves24 on February 07, 2017, 10:16:37 PM
Post by: Nelson de Leon on March 01, 2017, 12:06:48 AM
Ironic kasi hindi effective ang acoustic foam tapos napakamahal pa.
Usually yung mga hindi nagreresearch about bass trapping, sound insulating ends up buying eggshell foam and mindlessly placing it on walls. :eek:
Pwede yan in the meantime kaso hindi gaanong effective yan since manipis at kulang sa density.
I beg to disagree sir. Can you cite why it's not effective? What kind of eggshell foam are you referring to? Who said it's for bass trapping?
Post by: jake z on August 01, 2017, 11:11:59 PM
So I have this mini studio at home and I've been accepting clients lately. It's a small room about 14x14ft. Then my hanging cabinet pa which takes roughly 2 ft of space. Then my glass window which is roughly 3'x3' which I covered with a blanket and a curtain. My question is or are:
1. What will be the best approach for me to lessen the sound coming inside the room and coming out of the room? - my options are Foam Egg Crates which I saw sa classifieds.
2. Should I cover just the walls or including the ceiling? - Budget is not my friend these days :(
So yeah, nagrerecord kasi ako ng vocals and pag naka solo track na, medjo rinig yung boses ng kids sa labas ng room.
Looking forward to your responses.
Thank you as usual PM :)
Post by: alien_inside on January 14, 2018, 09:40:00 PM
I beg to disagree sir. Can you cite why it's not effective? What kind of eggshell foam are you referring to? Who said it's for bass trapping?Baka kasi URATEX, and not AURALEX..
Post by: alien_inside on January 14, 2018, 09:43:08 PM
bringing this thread back to life.FOAM? no. it's for kinda treatment.. choose auralex.
So I have this mini studio at home and I've been accepting clients lately. It's a small room about 14x14ft. Then my hanging cabinet pa which takes roughly 2 ft of space. Then my glass window which is roughly 3'x3' which I covered with a blanket and a curtain. My question is or are:
1. What will be the best approach for me to lessen the sound coming inside the room and coming out of the room? - my options are Foam Egg Crates which I saw sa classifieds.
2. Should I cover just the walls or including the ceiling? - Budget is not my friend these days :(
So yeah, nagrerecord kasi ako ng vocals and pag naka solo track na, medjo rinig yung boses ng kids sa labas ng room.
Looking forward to your responses.
Thank you as usual PM :)
you need MASS in soundproofing(isolation).
Post by: jake z on January 15, 2018, 08:42:05 AM
FOAM? no. it's for kinda treatment.. choose auralex.
you need MASS in soundproofing(isolation).
I selected rockwool instead. :)