mastering... what is it and how to start mastering a song?..

[alien_inside]

di po ba sir iba ang mixing sa mastering? hehe

Different Stories yan... Also the mastering room is very different from the mixing room... and the engineers are also different... the speakers/monitor and processors iba din...

[juanberto]

Different Stories yan... Also the mastering room is very different from the mixing room... and the engineers are also different... the speakers/monitor and processors iba din...

oh good sabi mo kasi sa isang reply mo e, mixing is good as mastering, kaya napa isip ako.. hehe nwei, thank you sir, napaka husay. pero wala ako budget to have mixing room and mastering room. all i got is my bedroom. haha

[zach lucero]

True, its Zak. But i think the price may make you think " DIY " ...

DIY? why and how do you equate  the work as DIY based on price? i adjust my price accordingly to the reality around us. I did not build the mastering studio to make money. what i put in there is inversely proportional to what i get out of it financialy. I cannot charge "standard" rates for pinoys..i recall redoing a mastering job by bob katz because the client was not happy..im not at liberty to tell who of course because i signed an agreement because the credits still mention bob katz as mastering engineer..they paid bob katz over a $1,000. what did i get? 1k per song.that in pesos bud. so do explain how price spells out DIY..im really curious..thanks! happy new year all!

[alien_inside]

for those who cant afford... i termed it DIY = do the mastering by themselves ( if someone really cant afford.... like me... ) HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[KitC]

for those who cant afford... i termed it DIY = do the mastering by themselves

That's why we have loads of terribly mastered music out there. Seriously, I think mastering is best left to the experts.

Happy New Year everyone!

[zach lucero]

for those who cant afford... i termed it DIY = do the mastering by themselves ( if someone really cant afford.... like me... ) HAPPY NEW YEAR!

aah. so you are saying 1k per song costs to much? ok ok  gets ko na.

[ronaldium]

As I have learned, mastering should be done by an engineer who hadn't worked during the mixing/recording of the tracks so that there will be no biasing in terms of the whole quality of sound. Parang ganun kasi yung natatandaan ko, ewan ko lang kung tama, hehehe... But it's true, audio mastering equipment are much different than an ordinary recording studio, I think they employ a different approach in fine tuning the final outcome of the track that eventually will be distributed and will be heard as the final product.

[BALDO]

That's why we have loads of terribly mastered music out there. Seriously, I think mastering is best left to the experts.

Happy New Year everyone!

A M E N to that!!!! even if i think i can PSEUDOMASTER a song that i tracked and mixed.. I ALWAYS , ALWAYS recommend having it mastered to a mastering facility.

[nolit]

A M E N to that!!!! even if i think i can PSEUDOMASTER a song that i tracked and mixed.. I ALWAYS , ALWAYS recommend having it mastered to a mastering facility.

and... an experienced ear.

Happy New Year !!!

[alien_inside]

aah. so you are saying 1k per song costs to much? ok ok  gets ko na.

for others... i charge either P500 per song ( unsupervised )... P500 per hour ( with supervision ).

[alien_inside]

As I have learned, mastering should be done by an engineer who hadn't worked during the mixing/recording of the tracks so that there will be no biasing in terms of the whole quality of sound. Parang ganun kasi yung natatandaan ko, ewan ko lang kung tama, hehehe... But it's true, audio mastering equipment are much different than an ordinary recording studio, I think they employ a different approach in fine tuning the final outcome of the track that eventually will be distributed and will be heard as the final product.

I agree...

[MacoySIN]

hehe. wag ganun bro. 

[alvincflorentino]

I never realized how "cheap" the mastering fee actually is in the real world (our world, at least). I mean, the guys here in this forum are probably as close to real world as we can get, right? But before anyone bashes me for saying P1,000 per song is cheap, let me explain that I'm only basing it on what I've read in US music magazines. It goes anywhere from USD50 to USD 250, 'di ba? So, compared to those U.S. rates, P1,000 is darned cheap! And if you do care about the outcome of the final master/output, I'd say that makes the price even sweeter! (Baka nagsisisi na sila alien inside and zach in mentioning the prices of their services! Ha!).

Sorry, but being a DIY-er myself, I'm not familiar with the equipment that the mastering houses have here. Are they "as good as" (meron bang ganun?) as mastering houses abroad? I've only once had a 12-song CD that I produced "mastered" by an engineer in ABS-CBN. Pina-paki lang ng isang well-known singer friend of mine dun sa engineer nila sa studio. I did notice that he had the top-of-the-line ProTools HD rigs but none of the outboard gear that we commonly associate with mastering houses, so software based ang pag-master nya. And he did master it: fixed EQ problems, compressed the songs that needed to be compressed, and applied the proper level matching to all the songs on the whole CD. Turned out great as a matter of fact.

Back to my original question: Pareho lang ba ang mga gamit natin sa pang-master kesa abroad? Are those gears actually needed? If not, then it boils down to the ears, the gear, and the experience of the mastering engineer, right?

[alien_inside]

I never realized how "cheap" the mastering fee actually is in the real world (our world, at least). .......(Baka nagsisisi na sila alien inside and zach in mentioning the prices of their services! Ha!).

Back to my original question: Pareho lang ba ang mga gamit natin sa pang-master kesa abroad? Are those gears actually needed? If not, then it boils down to the ears, the gear, and the experience of the mastering engineer, right?

Answer to Question: pare-pareho lang... ang di pareho, MAY PAMBILI SILA... ako wala. i have vintage things inside my home studio...i go "mano-mano" mastering sometimes...i use ADAT pag di ako gipit sa oras.


NO REGRETS! How about you Zach?

As i and zach mentioned, we ( and maybe some others ) can't standardize the price... kailangang ibagay sa nangangailangan...P1,000 is cheap ( with his TRUE MASTERING FACILITY ) ... P500 is cheaper! - with my DIY things: software and outboard gears... BUT WHO CARES? That's how friendly my price is!

Depende sa client yan... karamihan ng client ko yung mga INDIES ( indi sumisikat, indi pinapatugtog sa ere, indi pinapalakpakan, etc.. ), and i charge them even lower down to 400 per song...in that case puro software ( VSTs, plug-ins, and even presets ) gagamitin ko... kaya nga walang naka-post na prices sa loob ng studio eh...

Pag christian songs, iba naman ang rate... pag mayor, konsehal, gov, vice gov, borad member, hehe... kailangan na ng O.R.

As for my clients abroad, i charge them 50USD per song.

[alien_inside]

no regrets pa rin....

[KitC]

Keep the rhetoric down, Allen. This ain't no pissing match.

At the office, we master some projects through Bob Katz, who charges a very reasonable fee, per album! I think we had Bob master Lea's Cinderella album, and then some. As a rule, we never master our own mixes... it's bad practice to do so. One thing we do try to follow is to mix as close to the mastered product as much as possible.

The proof is in the final product, as always.

[abyssinianson]

quite the party in here. a pissing match it is not, i agree. at the same time, mastering as with owning a studio, is a business-not a charity, you gotta pay to play no matter what the budget so you gotta shop around. with more experience folks, you have a premium price to pay to take advantage of their experience, facility and talent.

[skunkyfunk]

At the end of the day, you must know when your ears start NOT to hear significant differences as you cash out more for audio processing.  A lot complain about 1k/song mastering done on real mastering equipment...    But they won't bother spending 10k for a Boutique OD stompbox that they use throuch crappy gig amps in different venues.   

[abyssinianson]

At the end of the day, you must know when your ears start NOT to hear significant differences as you cash out more for audio processing.  A lot complain about 1k/song mastering done on real mastering equipment...    But they won't bother spending 10k for a Boutique OD stompbox that they use throuch crappy gig amps in different venues.   

it happens a lot. there is actually a thread on the subject at GC debating the fitness (and logic) of building your guitar tone with the guitars and amp rather than spending copious amounts of money of the best pedals you can buy but not taking the time to invest in a good amp.

[LouieAzcona]

A lot complain about 1k/song mastering done on real mastering equipment...    But they won't bother spending 10k for a Boutique OD stompbox that they use throuch crappy gig amps in different venues.  

not because its a new year mr skunkyfunk... but I agree! haha!

Ignorance is more expensive than 1k per song.
Let alone the price of talking a lot about things you're not sure about.  

[BAMF]

Listen to the song about 1,000 times until you've memorized all the parts on all instruments and all lyrics and even the nuances of the singer as he sings.

By then you will have "mastered" the song.

[LouieAzcona]

it happens a lot. there is actually a thread on the subject at GC debating the fitness (and logic) of building your guitar tone with the guitars and amp rather than spending copious amounts of money of the best pedals you can buy but not taking the time to invest in a good amp.

I think it boils down to lack of education (not the kind that Manny Villar promised to give away). When they try to copy someoneelse's sound, by listening to a mastered CD, they really dont know what to listen to... At many times, they dont know what NOT to listen to. I usually encounter this with guitarist who wants to add more "bigat" to his sound. "yung kamuka nung sa (his favorite bigat band)" Then he kneels down to reach the knobs on his botique and turn the lows up. Until he drowns deep to not knowing to completely forgetting the basic knowledge of being tight with his band. - for me its no.1 rule to acheiving that "bigat!"

its the well mixed sound thats mabigat. not just the guitars not just the drums, not just the bass.

Lucky for those who dont understand, they can just give their money to a good recording studio instead of spending to add more expensive stomboxes. Luckier for those who recognize its importance, go to a mastering studio. 1k per song is not that expensive (considering that he wanted to get in this kind of endeavor). The knowledge youll get in the process is priceless.

[skunkyfunk]

I also thought of putting up an independent mastering facility. 

Those Quested, Adam, and B&W Mastering Monitors are more expensive than my whole recording rig.  Add up the high end limiters, converters and signal processors (i.e. Manley compressors, DBX Quantum II or TC Finalizer, Prism stuff) and get those very nice audio cleaning software like Waves and Sadie, plus you also need machines that can accommodate DAT, 1/2" tape, etc., geez, you cannot even charge less than P5000/song.  In the business world, it seems that a Mastering engineer and businessman would not put his facility here. 

Granting that you, as a mastering engineer, can offer a great mastered mix using great ears and great mastering equipment, I doubt that the AVERAGE pinoy musician would spend 1k/song.  It really sucks.  We need more mastering facilities yet there is no reasonable demand for them.  And the proof in the pudding is, we mixing engineers are told to do the mastering as well.   

PS  I hate shooting up MY OWN compressed 2-bus mix levels to -7dBFS RMS. 

[abyssinianson]

I think it boils down to lack of education (not the kind that Manny Villar promised to give away). When they try to copy someoneelse's sound, by listening to a mastered CD, they really dont know what to listen to... At many times, they dont know what NOT to listen to. I usually encounter this with guitarist who wants to add more "bigat" to his sound. "yung kamuka nung sa (his favorite bigat band)" Then he kneels down to reach the knobs on his botique and turn the lows up. Until he drowns deep to not knowing to completely forgetting the basic knowledge of being tight with his band. - for me its no.1 rule to acheiving that "bigat!"

its the well mixed sound thats mabigat. not just the guitars not just the drums, not just the bass.

Lucky for those who dont understand, they can just give their money to a good recording studio instead of spending to add more expensive stomboxes. Luckier for those who recognize its importance, go to a mastering studio. 1k per song is not that expensive (considering that he wanted to get in this kind of endeavor). The knowledge youll get in the process is priceless.

i agree with skunky. though it makes sense to put up a mastering facility to further the quality of the finished records at home, from a business standpoint, it'd be a really shortlived business based on potential shortage of clients willing to pony up the cash so you can break even on the business capital.

@LA: you hit the key idea on the spot: quality it isn't just about the individual parts of a recording that makes a track heavy, it is the whole product, mixed as a whole, each with its own "niche" frequency. you bring up a good point with the bass on guitars too. some folks tend to forget what they aren't hearing from the guitars-the excessive bass. that is what the bass player is for. if your guy sat down on a mixing session, they might notice that the engineer is actually cutting the bass some on the guitars to give room for the bass to sit nicely with the rest of the instruments.

[BAMF]

PS  I hate shooting up MY OWN compressed 2-bus mix levels to -7dBFS RMS. 

Yeah that sucks. All of a sudden there's noone down the chain to blame.