mastering... what is it and how to start mastering a song?..

[BAMF]

Yeah that sucks. All of a sudden there's noone down the chain to blame.

By the way, that's not a personal dig dodj lol it's just a general thought, typed out loud lol.

It goes like this. An aspiring mixing engineer came here and had me listen to, and critique (me of all people...okay)his work.

I told him how I didn't like the boxiness of the sound. And I told him that I tend to lean on mixes that seem to "jump out" of the speaker.

He then said "oh I sent it to a mastering engineer, and he did compression, limiting and global reverb..and yeah it came up boxey".

Owwwkkkaayyyy....

[skunkyfunk]

By the way, that's not a personal dig dodj lol it's just a general thought, typed out loud lol.

It goes like this. An aspiring mixing engineer came here and had me listen to, and critique (me of all people...okay)his work.

I told him how I didn't like the boxiness of the sound. And I told him that I tend to lean on mixes that seem to "jump out" of the speaker.

He then said "oh I sent it to a mastering engineer, and he did compression, limiting and global reverb..and yeah it came up boxey".

Owwwkkkaayyyy....

Boxey....  Almost all modern masters are boxy as per how producers made records just some 15 years ago.  I am even so pissed at remastered not-so-old records I grew up with.  Maybe people don't like reaching for the volume knob in their iPod anymore.     Competitive loudness has made it so difficult for mixing engineers to approach 'mastered mixes'.  I think I do more automation on 2 buss mixes nowadays than in mixing before it hits an auto-limiter that stays in red (almost).

[BAMF]

Boxey....  Almost all modern masters are boxy as per how producers made records just some 15 years ago.  I am even so pissed at remastered not-so-old records I grew up with.  Maybe people don't like reaching for the volume knob in their iPod anymore.     Competitive loudness has made it so difficult for mixing engineers to approach 'mastered mixes'.  I think I do more automation on 2 buss mixes nowadays than in mixing before it hits an auto-limiter that stays in red (almost).

Yeah. Figgers. Maybe there's no out to this problem.

Like yesterday I was on a long trip. Metro Manila lang naman, pero Novaliches. So I packed gear and sounds as anti-boredom devices. I also packed two tracks which I consider to be my best work to date. Even the client loves it.

When I was listening to it through my Ipod, it sounded like crap. Too much bass and almost no guitars to be heard. That which I consider to be a very tastefully balanced mix on my recording monitors anyway.

(Sigh) oh well...

[KitC]

But what is mastering really?

On a per song basis, it's probably meant to bring up the levels and eq sufficiently for broadcast. I do know that mastering was originally intended to make all songs in an album (or cd) consistent in level and sound quality. All too often, I believe noobs confuse mastering with what should be good mixing in the first place. One shouldn't bring a mix to a mastering house in order to make it sound bigger and better. Damn... all of a sudden I'm reminded of Metallica's last album.

[alien_inside]

Tama. Mastering. we talk about TRACKS of the album...

[alvincflorentino]

And it's probably not tracks as in "cuts" or "songs" of the album but individual instrument tracks and STEMS that should be brought to the mastering house. Some mastering engineers prefer that route and mix/master until all the elements are balanced (level matching, EQ) properly as per instructions from the artist/producer. Shouldn't this be the procedure? Instead of trying to get a "bigat" sound out of a guitar already mixed with other instruments, including vocals. That's a pain in the behind...

[KitC]

And it's probably not tracks as in "cuts" or "songs" of the album but individual instrument tracks and STEMS that should be brought to the mastering house.

While I know the rationale for this, I can't get over the fact that this somehow defeats one's reason for submitting a finished mix in the first place.

Any comments (or violent reactions)?

[skunkyfunk]

While I know the rationale for this, I can't get over the fact that this somehow defeats one's reason for submitting a finished mix in the first place.

Any comments (or violent reactions)?

Sir, I think the more appropriate term is SEPARATION MASTERING.  They say it is WHAT MULTIBAND COMPRESSORS WANT TO DO.

I understand that every genre and every mix has its own character.  For instance, a hiphop mix would probably have a lot of oomph in the final mix compared to a classic rock mix.   If I sent a hiphop 2-buss mix to a Mastering house and wanted them to pull  -6dBFS RMS loudness, definitely the oomphs and transients of the hiphop mix can still be more prominent, than if you did the same to a classic rock mix.  Most propbably, in a classic rock mix, the kick transients can disappear, the bass guitar can become thin, and the mids would be much brighter. 

But with stems, you can 'preserve' the lost transients in the mix depending on how good the Mastering engineer is.  IMO, it is not about giving the ME stems or not that matters; it is what the ME thinks that is needed for him to preserve your mix and at the same time make it LOUD.  

I have finally budged into the loudness wars for the reason that i want to keep my job.

[abyssinianson]

While I know the rationale for this, I can't get over the fact that this somehow defeats one's reason for submitting a finished mix in the first place.

Any comments (or violent reactions)?

this is true. typically, you mix then send the stuff off to the mastering house. you really never go backwards because it defeats all the time you've spent EQing and leveling all the different parts of the recording. if you go between the two, you will inevitably end up fixing was was already considered a done deal in the first place which is a waste of time and money.

[KitC]

But with stems, you can 'preserve' the lost transients in the mix depending on how good the Mastering engineer is.  IMO, it is not about giving the ME stems or not that matters; it is what the ME thinks that is needed for him to preserve your mix and at the same time make it LOUD.  

True.

Like I said, I know the rationale why mastering engineers now prefer stems and it is a viable process. But doesn't stem mastering now end up being a new (and maybe different) mix in the end? Used to be was that we would send stereo mixes and the mastering engineer would tweak them until all songs sounded like a cohesive whole. In essense, the ME ends up being the FINAL MIX engineer.

[skunkyfunk]

True.

Like I said, I know the rationale why mastering engineers now prefer stems and it is a viable process. But doesn't stem mastering now end up being a new (and maybe different) mix in the end? Used to be was that we would send stereo mixes and the mastering engineer would tweak them until all songs sounded like a cohesive whole. In essense, the ME ends up being the FINAL MIX engineer.

But word has it that the best Mastering engineers hardly use stems.  But then again, no matter how good the ME is, if the mix is crap, it will always be crap.  And I even think stems cannot solve that... Maybe yes in the bass department.

[alvincflorentino]

True.

Like I said, I know the rationale why mastering engineers now prefer stems and it is a viable process. But doesn't stem mastering now end up being a new (and maybe different) mix in the end? Used to be was that we would send stereo mixes and the mastering engineer would tweak them until all songs sounded like a cohesive whole. In essense, the ME ends up being the FINAL MIX engineer.

Actually, that makes perfect sense. But that's why I ended my sentence with "as per instruction from the artist/producer." Although I just actually read somewhere that some mastering engineers preferred this route, I'm sure it's not universally accepted for reasons you've already mentioned.

But word has it that the best Mastering engineers hardly use stems.  But then again, no matter how good the ME is, if the mix is crap, it will always be crap.  And I even think stems cannot solve that... Maybe yes in the bass department.

I'm really not sure if they do or don't use stems but maybe it's really just for compression and balancing, not neurosurgery!

 

[KitC]

I guess it depends on the ME. Most of the projects we sent to Bob Katz were stems as per his requirement. I'm thinking he wanted to control bass frequencies a bit more.

[alvincflorentino]

I guess it depends on the ME. Most of the projects we sent to Bob Katz were stems as per his requirement. I'm thinking he wanted to control bass frequencies a bit more.

I was actually gonna come around and ask you what Mr. Katz's requirements were but I guess you already answered that. So, what did his master sound like? I mean compared to what you had meant to submit (your own post-mix/pre-mastered version)? I'm sure yours was a knock-out already but did his "shine" more or did it have the extra oomph? Signature Bob Katz sound?

[skunkyfunk]

Stems are a NECESSITY if you are a mastering engineering practitioner.  Why?  Because of this friggin' loudness wars. 

[alien_inside]

Stems are a NECESSITY if you are a mastering engineering practitioner.  Why?  Because of this friggin' loudness wars. 

again... the question is: How LOUD is LOUD?

[skunkyfunk]

again... the question is: How LOUD is LOUD?

LOUD enough that your waveform looks like a 2x4.


And also, your software says the average loudness is from -6dBFS (Death Magnetic) to around -9dBFS.  


While there is such a thing as PERCEIVED LOUDNESS (meaning, the numbers aren't what really matter), I honestly think we all have an acquired taste for mega-compressed masters, hence the need to bring back those transients with stem mixes, usually the kick, bass and snare (and in some cases, the vocals).

[alien_inside]

LOUD enough that your waveform looks like a 2x4.


And also, your software says the average loudness is from -6dBFS (Death Magnetic) to around -9dBFS.  


 (and in some cases, the vocals).

yes in cases of POLITICAL JINGLES hahaha