Author Topic: questions about drum recording... (Read 9266 times)

skunkyfunk · « **Reply #25 on:** September 10, 2009, 01:34:16 PM »

Quote from: starfugger on September 10, 2009, 01:24:32 PM

hindi naman kailangan all or nothing. i believe a middle ground can be reached basta maayos ang usapan

kung sabihin sakin ng drummer na hindi sya comfortable revising his setup or technique, then that settles it. i will not push the idea any further. hanap nalang ako ng iba pang paraan.

minsan ka lang talaga makaka-encounter ng kliyenteng mahirap kausap. in such cases, as an engineer you have to spend more time with that person to understand where he is coming from. if you have to sit down and have a couple of beers with that person do so. when it comes to difficult clients, dalawa lang naman yan: it's either he is a virtuoso, or a noob. in both cases, there are times you have to put your foot down. most of the time though, it doesn't hurt to consider the other person's idea first.

btw, OT na tayo

Hazel, I think most of my head butting experiences in the studio don't stem from tracking. It is from "Making their 2-bus mix louder..."

Sorry OT din hehehe.

PS Nothing sucks more than working with a bad drummer who can't stay in time. Off-hits are ok. Tempo irregularities are not.

rakrakan · « **Reply #26 on:** September 10, 2009, 03:05:42 PM »

Quote from: mikep on September 08, 2009, 05:43:38 PM

Both ways. No set rules. Whether plug in or hardware, it really depends on what works best for you.

FWIW

+1

although I never track with plugins anymore.

BAMF · « **Reply #27 on:** September 11, 2009, 12:03:28 AM »

Quote from: skunkyfunk on September 10, 2009, 01:34:16 PM

Hazel, I think most of my head butting experiences in the studio don't stem from tracking. It is from "Making their 2-bus mix louder..." Sorry OT din hehehe.

PS Nothing sucks more than working with a bad drummer who can't stay in time. Off-hits are ok. Tempo irregularities are not.

That's when you use the time-stretch function hehehe.

KitC · « **Reply #28 on:** September 12, 2009, 11:09:15 AM »

Quote from: BAMF on September 11, 2009, 12:03:28 AM

That's when you use the time-stretch function hehehe.

Marvin bought Live 8 for that, but now he's happy with that function in Cubase 5. Much much better than their previous audiowarp.

BALDO · « **Reply #29 on:** September 13, 2009, 11:55:03 AM »

Quote from: glowstick on September 10, 2009, 10:29:11 AM

This is where you get to differentiate the artists who are pros and those who are still in baby bottles

this reminds me of a drummer who has been unhappy playing on my hybrid drum set.. i kept on telling him, he doesnt have to hit the kick pad hard to get a sound.. the effing kick pad was flying all over the place

glowstick · « **Reply #30 on:** September 29, 2009, 01:26:48 PM »

Quote from: BALDO on September 13, 2009, 11:55:03 AM

this reminds me of a drummer who has been unhappy playing on my hybrid drum set.. i kept on telling him, he doesnt have to hit the kick pad hard to get a sound.. the effing kick pad was flying all over the place

hahahaha deaf drummer!

marvinq · « **Reply #31 on:** October 12, 2009, 08:15:17 AM »

VST plugs during tracking? Maybe not. It adds latency. And the really good ones (the ones I think that deserve to be considered for tracking) adds latencies that are unacceptable, most especially for drum tracking. If you really have to put processing while tracking, I'd say use hardware.

I'd always put more importance on getting a great performance than superior audio. But that's just me. I break that rule when the artist starts breaking my equipment. At that point, he stops being a client... or even a welcome guest. Haha.

superwup · « **Reply #32 on:** October 12, 2009, 02:32:33 PM »

"I'd always put more importance on getting a great performance than superior audio. But that's just me. I break that rule when the artist starts breaking my equipment. At that point, he stops being a client... or even a welcome guest. Haha"

Even worse, after you give comment they tell when you are not there that YOU are the one who is having an attitude, this happens mostly with the inexperienced "artists"

They should remember at all times that it is not their equipment they are only allowed to use it and should handle it with respect to the owner but mostly the "amateur" think they can destroy all for only a few peso an hour rent.

Only when you bring your OWN equipment you are allowed to destroy that..........

skunkyfunk · « **Reply #33 on:** October 12, 2009, 02:40:34 PM »

For the record, artists, in general, are not always arrogant or controlling to the point of being a jackass in the studio. In fact I find Pinoy artists more timid than how artists should act. It's not like the engineer is gonna shoot you if you adjust the height of the drum throne; you just need to ask how... Or if they hear something 'wrong' in the mix, be open to say "Parang may mali..."

Some of my clients have encountered problems in the past with other studios from the get-go because they think "masungit masyado yung engineer..." Feel free to experiment and twiddle with most stuff that the studio has to offer. In most cases, equipment breaks because they are bound to break down. Just a few minutes ago, I blew my power tubes (again) in one of my amps.

Haaaay.

superwup · « **Reply #34 on:** October 12, 2009, 02:44:59 PM »

Skunkyfunk, you talk about artists, i talk about amateurs, that's not always the same..............

The more professional the less damage, correct?

peeves24 · « **Reply #35 on:** October 12, 2009, 02:45:36 PM »

kasi dodj mag POD ka na lang

superwup · « **Reply #36 on:** October 12, 2009, 02:54:06 PM »

" Just a few minutes ago, I blew my power tubes (again) in one of my amps. Haaaay. "

Thats not the same as dropping your guitars on the floor or keep drumming when the nylon tips are gone so your skins look like the surface of the moon after 2 minutes

marvinq · « **Reply #37 on:** October 12, 2009, 03:02:03 PM »

Difficult clients. Yup, that's the thing that's always stopping me from having my studio rented out. At least, I'm the only difficult client my studio has to deal with. And I care about the equipment, so that ain't too bad.

Most of the time, I don't mind having to deal with 'difficult engineers', for as long as I'm sure they're helping me get the sound I want. It's really the output that matters to me.

And when I talked about damage to equipment, I didn't mean normal wear and tear. For example, if you installed new drum heads, and after the recording session the head is dented, that ain't normal. The guy has poor technique, and I'll keep my ribbon mics farthest from him. Or if I let somebody use my synth, and afterwards my synth is missing a volume knob. That ain't normal. Not to legit musicians.

superwup · « **Reply #38 on:** October 12, 2009, 03:07:21 PM »

Sir MarvinQ that's what i try to say also................

Anyway the discussion was about drum recording so lets stick to that but i like to admit that it's not funny when you see one of your overheads "flying around the studio because they hit it with an stick while it was placed at least 40 cm from the cymbals"

marvinq · « **Reply #39 on:** October 12, 2009, 03:17:26 PM »

For most of my drum recordings, I ask the drummer to put the cymbals as high up as they're comfortable with. I also ask him to get the toms farther apart than they normally would place them, but only if they're comfortable with it. I won't ever sacrifice getting a good performance. If they perform poorly, I make sure I'm not the reason. If that ain't possible, I make sure I'm not the only reason. Haha.

superwup · « **Reply #40 on:** October 12, 2009, 03:20:02 PM »

Sir Marvinq, ever thought about going in politics?

marvinq · « **Reply #41 on:** October 12, 2009, 03:41:29 PM »

Quote from: BALDO on September 13, 2009, 11:55:03 AM

this reminds me of a drummer who has been unhappy playing on my hybrid drum set.. i kept on telling him, he doesnt have to hit the kick pad hard to get a sound.. the effing kick pad was flying all over the place

Not all drummers feel comfy with a drum pad. That's why. He's trying too hard trying to replicate the experience of playing a real kit. It's like the ability to play using in-ear monitors. It's an acquired skill. Engineers need to understand this as well. In this particular case, the drummer isn't totally to blame.

The important thing is to compromise when that is a possibility. If the drummer's bass drum's resonant head doesn't have a hole, then work with that as a given. They don't always appreciate a lecture on how making that hole will render better audio. If their technique isn't that refined, then put your more expensive mics in a safer place. Better yet, use SM57's even on your hats and overheads (that is, if their technique is terrifying you). Solve the audio compromises later on. You can even explain to the band why you had to spend an extra couple of hours solving the phasing issues. Haha.

Politics? No. I'm very content with being the one criticizing, not the one being criticized. Besides, I don't have very good chances at getting elected. My family name isn't spell-friendly. Haha.

KitC · « **Reply #42 on:** October 12, 2009, 03:50:39 PM »

Quote from: marvinq on October 12, 2009, 03:41:29 PM

Politics? No. I'm very content with being the one criticizing, not the one being criticized. Besides, I don't have very good chances at getting elected. My family name isn't spell-friendly. Haha.

And besides that, freudian slips can be VERY compromising. hehe

marvinq · « **Reply #43 on:** October 12, 2009, 03:54:54 PM »

That can never be underestimated, my friend. You can never tell how it could cost you a victory in the Metropop. Haha.

glowstick · « **Reply #44 on:** October 12, 2009, 05:01:16 PM »

Quote from: skunkyfunk on October 12, 2009, 02:40:34 PM

For the record, artists, in general, are not always arrogant or controlling to the point of being a jackass in the studio. In fact I find Pinoy artists more timid than how artists should act. It's not like the engineer is gonna shoot you if you adjust the height of the drum throne; you just need to ask how... Or if they hear something 'wrong' in the mix, be open to say "Parang may mali..."

Some of my clients have encountered problems in the past with other studios from the get-go because they think "masungit masyado yung engineer..." Feel free to experiment and twiddle with most stuff that the studio has to offer. In most cases, equipment breaks because they are bound to break down. Just a few minutes ago, I blew my power tubes (again) in one of my amps. Haaaay.

mate....pa check mo biasing....plus check the tubes for specs (using a tube tester)

glowstick · « **Reply #45 on:** October 12, 2009, 05:07:12 PM »

Quote from: marvinq on October 12, 2009, 03:41:29 PM

The important thing is to compromise when that is a possibility. If the drummer's bass drum's resonant head doesn't have a hole, then work with that as a given. They don't always appreciate a lecture on how making that hole will render better audio. If their technique isn't that refined, then put your more expensive mics in a safer place. Better yet, use SM57's even on your hats and overheads (that is, if their technique is terrifying you). Solve the audio compromises later on. You can even explain to the band why you had to spend an extra couple of hours solving the phasing issues. Haha.

Keeping the guns away from the kids....

...I like this post

skunkyfunk · « **Reply #46 on:** October 13, 2009, 01:17:57 AM »

Quote from: glowstick on October 12, 2009, 05:01:16 PM

mate....pa check mo biasing....plus check the tubes for specs (using a tube tester)

I should have bought that tube bias king from the US a few months back. That can save me a lot of tech bills if I stock tubes in my cabinet.

BTT. When people break your stuff, chances are they hate you. I know someone who wrecked a new set of K Custom cymbals using his Promark sticks which were as thick as hotrods (pretty much like Vinnie Paul sig sticks) because the stage tech was so arrogant.

Another alternative is having choices. More cymbals to choose, less wear and tear. More heads to choose, less wear and tear. Damn I also buy wing nuts often because some drummers overtighten an already tight wing nut.

marvinq · « **Reply #47 on:** October 13, 2009, 05:21:39 AM »

Quote from: skunkyfunk on October 13, 2009, 01:17:57 AM

I should have bought that tube bias king from the US a few months back. That can save me a lot of tech bills if I stock tubes in my cabinet.

BTT. When people break your stuff, chances are they hate you. I know someone who wrecked a new set of K Custom cymbals using his Promark sticks which were as thick as hotrods (pretty much like Vinnie Paul sig sticks) because the stage tech was so arrogant.

Another alternative is having choices. More cymbals to choose, less wear and tear. More heads to choose, less wear and tear. Damn I also buy wing nuts often because some drummers overtighten an already tight wing nut.

Actually, my experience has been different. I've seen drummers break stuff because of poor technique. You see and hear it anyway. You see it when they bring their own snares. Check the consistency of the wear and tear on the head itself. The closer it is to a small circle, the most consistent their technique. If the hits are all over the place, there's not a very good chance that they were intentional. That'd be the time to use your less expensive mics, drum heads and cymbals. And you MIGHT need drumagog.

I do have a number of cymbals, but I've developed a few favorites, and consequently, they've had a bigger share of the wear and tear. It's a bit fortunate that my studio is a personal project studio, and so for the most part I get to choose who gets to use it, so my encounters with drummers with less-than-desirable technique has been kept to a minimum. I've seen a lot of them in other studios though.

superwup · « **Reply #48 on:** October 13, 2009, 06:22:20 AM »

That's why they invented Studio Musicians

marvinq · « **Reply #49 on:** October 13, 2009, 07:03:11 AM »

...and the concept of bringing your own stuff.

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Author Topic: questions about drum recording... (Read 9266 times)

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