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Author Topic: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."  (Read 8222 times)

Offline chuck sabbath

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Re: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2007, 12:19:10 PM »
the importers that be are not relenting in selling their precious imports at list, even after having the items on the shelves after 10 years!  :-o

yeah check out the list price of the yamaha a3000 sampler at yupangcs=P70,000 :roll:
i saw a wavestation a/d in perfect pitch also for = P30,000  :roll:

i cant even give them away at my bagsak presyo prices

to be fair though i asked one of the honchos there about this and he said that these items are usually marked down na, and they do blow them out at sales...i almost bought a roland s550 sampler for a "steal" = P15000  :roll:  :roll:
In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their address they eventually live in the metropolis

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."
« Reply #51 on: March 11, 2007, 01:26:47 PM »
It's a matter of economics, really. The Zoom is much more affordable than a Pod. If Line6 were priced within reach then a lot more would be using it but the importers that be are not relenting in selling their precious imports at list, even after having the items on the shelves after 10 years!  :-o

Wow...thats a shame that the importers aren't pushing Line 6 as much over there. The company does have a lot of good products. For the past few years, Line 6 and Digitech have really been pushing to make their stuff more affrdable over here and they are even bundling them together with other stuff to make sure the musicians get everything that they need to make music from the get go. M-Audio is doing the same thing. The products both companies are releasing are really nice and I am continually impressed by the stuff people make on them.

Zoom doesn't get as much love over here because people tend to go the pedal+amp route. Most people have a few pedals but invest in the best amp they can get. Most start the ss amp path and then go tube or upgrade to a better ss amp head if they get the chance. The turnover for used gear here is pretty healthy so there is always something getting sold somewhere unless your amp is one of those really trusty ones that people will never sell once they get them.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline xjepoyx

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Re: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."
« Reply #52 on: March 11, 2007, 02:15:01 PM »
A quote from record-producer.com Newsletter that was forwarded to me . This very much inclined with the topic.



Why some people will simply never make it into the music
recording industry.

Being involved in Audio Education, I also inevitably become
involved in some of the negative aspects of what has become
a major 'bums on seats' (or is that 'butts on seats'?)
money generator for schools and colleges. And far and away
the worst aspect is often having to teach people who
plainly have no chance of keeping a job in music recording
or sound engineering.

'Why would they be on such a course in the first place?'
would be a question that springs to mind.

Well I have met many such people over the years and I still
don't know the answer. And it's not for want of telling
them what industry requires. I know that because I keep
close touch with industry and I have asked and continue to
ask employers what they want.

I have a feeling that these people somehow think they have
'it', whatever 'it' may be, and they are sitting waiting to
be 'discovered'. Dream on...!

The interesting thing though is the things these people do
and say in class that if they did them in a studio would
get them fired pretty much instantly, or at least on a
second occurrence.

In class, when I do one of my occasional lectures, I am
effectively in the position of studio manager, and if a
student doesn't behave appropriately, then I will patiently
explain what they are doing wrong. Like a real life studio
manager, I don't see myself as any kind of god, I neither
expect nor desire people to bow and scrape before me, I
require only the normal degree of respect that any human
being needs and do not appreciate undue displays of
deference.

However, a studio manager does hire and fire. They can only
keep people on who are going to be an asset to their
business, and they have to fire people who can't be trusted
to act appropriately around artists.

So here are a few examples of inappropriate behavior..

- Turning up late. Worse still, turning up late with a cup
of coffee in hand (they had time to buy the coffee, but not
to turn up as soon as they were able)

- Turning up late and not seeming to care. If an assistant
engineer arrives after the engineer, it's a problem. If he
or she arrives after the producer, it's a major problem.
After the artist...

- Getting the artist's name wrong. For instance, my name is
David. It doesn't bother me if people call me Dave, but it
shows that they think they have a right to be familiar
before I have granted it. Don't do it to an artist. And
notice that some artists have special ways to spell their
name - 'kd lang' for instance, not 'KD Lang'.

- Getting the song title wrong. Artists live and die by the
quality of the material they work with. A three minute song
might just be one out of millions of similar three minute
songs, but it could represent the next stage in an artist's
successful career, or the first stage in a downward spiral
to oblivion. Get the song title right to the letter, and
every tiny little detail of capital letters and punctuation
marks.

- Saying to an artist, having just heard their new song,
"That sounds a bit like..." How soon do you want to be
dead?

One of the things I find most irritating in class is a
student who behaves inappropriately to the simulated studio
setting, and then when I point this out says, "It's only
college. It doesn't matter".

What a mistake, and what sheer arrogance. Through years
(decades) of showing an interest, I have made contact with
many people in the industry who now recognize my name. I
can write a reference for a student that will help them
shine through in the job interview process.

But I'm not going to do that for someone who says, "It's
only college", am I?

Of course I'm preaching to the converted here, and if you
have stuck with Record-Producer.com for any length of time
you will already see these things as second nature. On the
other hand, you could be a student yourself and in a class
with other students who do these things, and worse. If that
is so, you are entitled to have a laugh at their expense.
They may try to come across as 'cool' and make smart ass
remarks to their teacher. But if they ever get the chance
of a job in a studio, they are going to have to start
learning pretty fast, and chances are that they are not
going to make it.
good girls go to heaven. bad girls go to my room!  [/i]

Offline abyssinianson

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Re: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."
« Reply #53 on: March 11, 2007, 04:16:02 PM »
Yup, sounds pretty spot on. Working in a studio is pretty much like working in an office; you have to pull your own weight and bring in business or you get let go. I know I couldn't do it fulltime, thats for sure. The hours are weird, some of the people are a$$ses and eccentric, and I hate having to put up with fuss that I find trivial like naming conventions for artists. If I got a buck for every hiphop guy that came in and wanted the track sheet to reflect all the odd naming and symbols that they used in their name to stand out, man...that SSL would be in my basement faster than I could plunk down the cash to pay for it :-D

It is fine that you treat an artist with reverence when it comes to their work but, jeez, lets get the product OUT first before one tries to match the attitude that major label bozos who have a head full of helium tend to throw around, no? I really don't like the attitude but when bossman studio manager says we need to bring in the money, you bring in the money and wear the kid gloves. I am glad I don't have to be in the trenches as much as they fulltime guys because doing all that dirty work on a regular basis must be tough.
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Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."
« Reply #54 on: March 11, 2007, 09:24:15 PM »
I had a talk with the President of SAE Singapore.  I think their main idea of an education in recording is having their graduates have the capability to work from one studio to another.  I was stupified to find out that their vision for the  future is having Protools studios around the globe and simply upload and download workfiles; something like a producer hires musicians in Socal, records them, then overnight sends the tracks online to London where a solo artist cuts vocals, then, send  the files overnight to a studio in Singapore for mixing. 

And those Neve and SSL consoles really made my jaws drop. And the tone was phenomenal.


Offline abyssinianson

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Re: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."
« Reply #55 on: March 11, 2007, 10:54:01 PM »
I had a talk with the President of SAE Singapore.  I think their main idea of an education in recording is having their graduates have the capability to work from one studio to another.  I was stupified to find out that their vision for the  future is having Protools studios around the globe and simply upload and download workfiles; something like a producer hires musicians in Socal, records them, then overnight sends the tracks online to London where a solo artist cuts vocals, then, send  the files overnight to a studio in Singapore for mixing. 

And those Neve and SSL consoles really made my jaws drop. And the tone was phenomenal.
What you are saying is happening even now. Collaborations, as long as you have the facilities to run the files and plugs, are quite normal and take place between studios and post-production places all the time even if they are not SAE. However, I think it would be odd for something to get sent to Singapore for post production work when a lot of really good places may be available locally in Britain or in the US. At a few of the places I've worked, I remember seeing stuff coming IN from abroad for post-production mastering and editing but never going out to have the work done.

The tone of the Neve and SSL? THAT is why they cost upwards of 90,000 bucks and it would be cool to have one. Wishful thinking. Studer desks sound awesome as well.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 10:59:50 PM by abyssinianson »
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Offline KitC

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Re: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."
« Reply #56 on: March 11, 2007, 11:31:05 PM »
I have a '98 or '99 issue of Keyboard (or was it EM) where Tangerine Dream was the featured artist(s). Even then they were already flying around wave files between their studios in Germany, UK and Spain using dedicated ftp servers. Even ex-Tangerine Dream Christophe Franke, who did the score for Babylon 5, would do his work in Germany and send it off to Hollywood via the internet. Back then, they were already doing T1/T3 speeds using dedicated leased lines and servers so you can imagine what it cost them at the time. Now all it takes is a business DSL line.

The concept of artists and studios working virtually is not a new one. Cubase even had a Rocket Network system during VST 5/SX1 where a project would be be online on the network and artists would be adding and editing midi and audio track data in real time to the project. The project doesn't have to be tied to a PT system. All it takes is the right format and protocol. For example, you can have wave files exported in PT to OMF format and import those into Cubase or Sonar and work off the raw waves. In a recent NIN remix contest, Trent Reznor posted his tracks online for "The Hand That Feeds" in Ableton Live format for enthusiasts to remix; the winner of the contest was included in the album.
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Offline abyssinianson

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Re: Best way to tell a client "Your tone sucks..."
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2007, 12:29:44 AM »
speaking of NIN, Charlie Clouser, the former keys guy of NIN does a lot of that type of work. I saw him at a Logic seminar at he was describing the infrastructure him and his staff use to shuttle files between the projects he is working on at a given time. Since Trent was notorious for working with a ton of people, I believe he was accustomed to doing the virtual file sharing thing over dedicated file as well. I never got a chance to go inside Nothing Studios in New Orleans when I was there (i only passed by it quite a few times) but it would have been fun to poke around and see what trent's place looks like.

I remember Rocket Network and it was a nice concept but high speed DSL back in the day of 5.1 and SX1 wasnt as affordable as they are now.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!