Why is my initial recording not as loud as CD mixes?

[bassman88]

Why are my drum recordings not loud enough even though each mic preamp signals is just about to be in peak level? (i use a total of 7 mics, 3 condensers for overheads and ambient. 4 for each drum piece) I tried researching in the net and they say its just a matter of compressing/limiting but it doesnt seem to work? Is it possible that its due to my recording software? Im using tracktion 2 kasi. Please help me out! Thanks so much in advance.

[skunkyfunk]

Why are my drum recordings not loud enough even though each mic preamp signals is just about to be in peak level? (i use a total of 7 mics, 3 condensers for overheads and ambient. 4 for each drum piece) I tried researching in the net and they say its just a matter of compressing/limiting but it doesnt seem to work? Is it possible that its due to my recording software? Im using tracktion 2 kasi. Please help me out! Thanks so much in advance.

Keyword: MASTERING

[bassman88]

does mastering mean mastering each instrument? or mixing all instruments at normal level and boosting them as a whole?

[BALDO]

Yes Mastering is the key..
tracking- recording every instrument in several tracks
mixing- EQ, compress, effects (in vocals and instruments ie. reverb, flanger, phaser   
             etc etc) , remove clicks and noise, keep everything in the right pitch & level.
mastering - further EQ, compression, reverb ( if still applicable) removing noise, clicks
                  hum and boosting the sound to maximum levels - although this last                             
                  one will always be subjected to different point of views. i prefer maximum
                  ACCEPTABLE levels.
                 

[abyssinianson]

does mastering mean mastering each instrument? or mixing all instruments at normal level and boosting them as a whole?

you don't master each instrument, you master the entire track as a whole to give it a more cohesive feel with respect to the other songs on your album or LP.

[xjepoyx]

Go to Zach Lucero's Mastering House. He has special price for Indie Projects.

AFAIK... he has this great HIFI System for Mastering and a Mastering Room designed by Mike Pedero (mikep) and you cant go wrong with having it mastered by Zach.

[bassman88]

@BALDO
Thanks so much, im still learning all the recording jargon, its really tough, haha, i don't even know how to master, i have this plugin that came with my tracktion 2 software called Final Mix (by mackie), it has all these presets but none of them seem to work for me and it still isnt loud enough. Anyway, ill continue to explore thru trial and error.

@abyssinianson
Thanks, now i know what im doing wrong, no wonder my instruments peak before mastering.

@xjepoyx
Thanks, ill take note of that but ill have to make sure the song's worth spending on. hehehe.

[KitC]

Don't be overly swayed by loud commercial mixes as these have been compressed to death robbing the song of any dynamics and depth. The main purpose it has been done this way is to attract attention to the song. Look at babies during TV commercials - it's the same principle.

The downside to having these super compressed masters is that it makes the song tiring to hear. A lot of these new songs go thru my ears on an almost daily basis and I can tell you that I prefer blessed silence instead of listening to music nowadays. I guess this is the reason why a lot of people prefer old songs since they haven't been "mastered" to death. I'm beginning to think that TC Electronics' Finalizer had a lot to do with this.

[bassman88]

Master Kit! thank you for the reply. Do you have the TC Electronics' Finalizer in your studio? Do you find something like that necessary for a studio ordo you use a certain VST plugin for your mastering? Thanks a lot!

[KitC]

Someone was offering a TC Finalizer in the classifieds last year. No, I don't use Finalizer since I have software that does the same thing. I use Sonar6's VC64 - I start off with a preset then tweak until it sounds right. I enable Sonar's 64-bit engine to squeeze out more processing headroom to make things a lot smoother.

[starfugger]

@ bassman:

my suggestion is that you mix down your song and then import the stereo file to a track in your DAW.  plug in a limiter in the master bus and compress judiciosly.  your faders should be set to 0db, let the limiter do the job of eliminating peaks.  you would know if you were overdoing it when your track starts to distort or "pump".  also, check your bass frequencies.  make sure there isn't too much bass that would eat up headroom. it might be best to set the limiter output to -.3

[bassman88]

@ bassman:

my suggestion is that you mix down your song and then import the stereo file to a track in your DAW.  plug in a limiter in the master bus and compress judiciosly.  your faders should be set to 0db, let the limiter do the job of eliminating peaks.  you would know if you were overdoing it when your track starts to distort or "pump".  also, check your bass frequencies.  make sure there isn't too much bass that would eat up headroom. it might be best to set the limiter output to -.3

Thanks!
Im still having a hard time understanding how to use a limiter though but ill experiment on it later. Thanks!

[KitC]

Thanks!
Im still having a hard time understanding how to use a limiter though but ill experiment on it later. Thanks!

I tend to use a limiter in the master bus output just to capture peaks, but my rule of thumb is that if I see it working all the time, I go back to the individual tracks that cause it to work that much.

[ommantra]

mga sir...ano po ibig sabihin nung mga 128 bit na MP3 songs sa mga 16bit or 24bit na mga mixer??? may pagkakapareho po ba yun

[splashjam]

mastering is exactly right but I can't give you any more advice on it only what I was told from my course last year.
The course I did was organised by a sound designer for the Rolling Stones. His advice on mastering was to get your recording done yourself or at a decent studio and take your recording to a top quality studio for mastering, he suggested EMI studios in London (thats where the course was) but I'm sure from what I've read here there are people who could do it for you. Don't try it yourself if you want to send a recording of your own band to a record company, get someone who is experienced in mastering for this.

[bassman88]

@KitC and Starfugger
I've been experimenting on the limiters and i took all your pieces of advice, im finally learning how to work it. Thanks so much! the -.3 tip was so useful and I finally compressed the snare in the original mix because it was the one causing the pumps. haha! thanks again!

@SplashJam
I tend to listen to other records of my favorite bands and try to copy their sound, haha! I'm hooked! Hopefully ill get to learn how to master in time. tiyaga lang to. haha!

[bloodshedd]

Hi!... what type of music are doing anyway?

Some genres are actually sound better to listen to with minimal/ or just enough compression like jazz because the dynamic range of the music is really wide.

Some genres (such as most electronic music genres) on the other hand scream to be compressed and even use compression as a way to get more sounds.

Piz!

[bassman88]

Hi!... what type of music are doing anyway?

Some genres are actually sound better to listen to with minimal/ or just enough compression like jazz because the dynamic range of the music is really wide.

Some genres (such as most electronic music genres) on the other hand scream to be compressed and even use compression as a way to get more sounds.

Piz!

Hi bloodshed! thanks for the info, i play funk rock and a little bit of alternative, could you give me some tips? I think it's a little bit in between from what you mentioned, im not quite sure how intense my compressions for this type of genre should be. thanks again.

[starfugger]

I tend to use a limiter in the master bus output just to capture peaks, but my rule of thumb is that if I see it working all the time, I go back to the individual tracks that cause it to work that much.

+1

@ bassman, you could strap a limiter across the master buss to check which track is pushing it way too much.  the culprits are usually the snare, the kick, or the bass guitar.

[bassman88]

+1

@ bassman, you could strap a limiter across the master buss to check which track is pushing it way too much.  the culprits are usually the snare, the kick, or the bass guitar.

thanks starfugger, but im having a problem with compressing the kick, it seems if i adjust it, it tends to blend with the bass guitar and it doesnt cut thru the mix anymore, the only solution is to let it peak and let the limiter do its job, is that a good idea? would that sound pumpy when the song is played in large live sound speakers or car sound system?

[KitC]

Given a choice, I would rather mix so that peaks at the main output never exceed anything from -3 to -1 db. Others prefer -6 db so that there is enough headroom during the mastering phase. I think one should be more concerned with having a clear and uncluttered mix first instead of aiming for loudness during the mixing stage. Final loudness can be achieved during mastering.

[bassman88]

Given a choice, I would rather mix so that peaks at the main output never exceed anything from -3 to -1 db. Others prefer -6 db so that there is enough headroom during the mastering phase. I think one should be more concerned with having a clear and uncluttered mix first instead of aiming for loudness during the mixing stage. Final loudness can be achieved during mastering.

This is exactly the advice i was looking for. thank you so much sir kit, i was already starting to wonder if there's something wrong with the onyx pre-amps i purchased. So its actually really normal to not get mastering-level volumes while recording from sound sources. One of my main concerns though is, if my sound source was too low in volume, would mastering it cause distortions or undesirable noise?

What is the ideal dB level of a newly recorded audio sound source?

[KitC]

What is the ideal dB level of a newly recorded audio sound source?

I would try to aim for the hottest signal that can be recorded without adding noise (hiss) to the track. Set up your preamps so that they are putting out a hot signal but try to keep peaks around -3 db at your audio interface inputs. Always adjust the trim at your preamps first for best possible SNR then proceed down the channel so that you get a good healthy signal into your DAW.

The rule is never to clip your inputs as much as possible to avoid digital distortion; you can always adjust volumes later during mixing. Better to reduce a recorded track's volume than to try and increase a recorded track's volume after recording - that's a surefire method of increasing noise in your tracks. And don't always rely on the meters... use your ears!

[fascinatedbymusic]

Why are my drum recordings not loud enough even though each mic preamp signals is just about to be in peak level? (i use a total of 7 mics, 3 condensers for overheads and ambient. 4 for each drum piece) I tried researching in the net and they say its just a matter of compressing/limiting but it doesnt seem to work? Is it possible that its due to my recording software? Im using tracktion 2 kasi. Please help me out! Thanks so much in advance.

your software has nothing to do with your problem. the definite answer to your problem is to maintain a good relative level of the instruments.

[bloodshedd]

Hi bloodshed! thanks for the info, i play funk rock and a little bit of alternative, could you give me some tips? I think it's a little bit in between from what you mentioned, im not quite sure how intense my compressions for this type of genre should be. thanks again.

Maybe just research on how other people do it...  for my taste, I would advice you to just apply light compression unless certain parts need it or juz draw volume curves...