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Author Topic: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions  (Read 26234 times)

Offline keyots.r

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #100 on: September 17, 2014, 05:09:31 PM »
1 Corinthians 8:9

Offline ron_rd57

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #101 on: September 17, 2014, 11:30:29 PM »
So the TS was asking what we think of worship members with ink.. If the answer to the your first question is yes (meaning, as what the TS stated na binatikos iyung friend niya), then in your second statement it may be taken then that the inked musician did sin, because he offended someone else in their congregation..

Ahah, and this is a subtopic of "The Music Forums"..

offending someone is a sin?
yup pwede,
pero if someone is offended by your personal preference and personal decisions in life that doesn't harm others,
those who were offended should have no reasons to be offended
they don't own the person, wala silang right para pakiilamanan ang buhay ng isang tao.
as i said before in the beginning at the book of Genesis..
we are created to dominate the Earth, not to dominate people...
to represent His Kingdom not our denominations and religion
yet religious organizations love to the control the people...

I'm just sharing what I learned if you don't agree with it,
i have no problems with it... :)
pero sana makita natin na kasalanan rin ang manghusga ng kapwa nya..lalo na pag wala sa lugar :)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 12:06:29 AM by ron_rd57 »

Offline nicoyow

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #102 on: September 18, 2014, 12:47:37 AM »

pero sana makita natin na kasalanan rin ang manghusga ng kapwa nya..lalo na pag wala sa lugar :)

yon! may nakatumbok din!
Sa pinipig, bukod sa pwede mo singhutin, pwede mo rin tikman.

Offline iyzburg

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2014, 09:34:56 AM »
yon! may nakatumbok din!

Yes, I agree na mali manghusga sa kapuwa sa maling paraan.. I grimace if I try to imagine the batikos your friend got.. Why? Well, if what you told us is true as you said it, that pati length ng strap mo was even questioned? Oh my.. Buti pa nga you try to find some other congregation that better show the true Kingdom of  God..

What I'm trying to point out is, the general statement na mali manghusga ng tao sa kanilang preferences.. That sort of "liberating idea" may just be a trading off of one erroneous belief to another erroneous belief..
Deut 11:13 ...love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...

Offline honasito

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #104 on: September 23, 2014, 03:37:48 PM »
(WWJD) what would Jesus do?


Offline lawliet

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #105 on: September 29, 2014, 06:40:41 PM »
In fairness, ito nalang ang di ko "majustify" Scripturally ;D regarding sa mga Non-Essential issues personally.

Kasi balak ko dati palagay noon ng tatoo ng isang Serpent tapos sa ilalim may Bible verse na Matthew 10:16 sa Deltoids ko so nagresearch and pinagaralan ko muna hehe.

Pero siguro yung mga may tatoo na tapos di na nila mapaBura, wala na tayo magagawa don we accept them, not unless we financially help them do it if they want to. Mahal ata pabura ng tatoo. :)

Offline qroon

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #106 on: September 30, 2014, 06:46:33 AM »
1 Corinthians 8:9

Eto yung ipanayo sa akin ng isang kaibigan/kapatid. Hindi naman kasi lahat ay enlightened or strong ang faith. So be careful na rin. In this context, kung sa tingin mo'y ika nga ay ikatitisod ng isang kapatid ang iyong gagawin, pag-isipan munang mabuti.


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Offline ejecruz

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Joshua 1:8

Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.

Offline masterjeremiah14

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #108 on: October 04, 2014, 12:53:44 PM »
mas marami akong nakikitang judgmental sa loob ng church kaysa judgmental na may tattoo.,,. yan ang dahilan kaya ang dami daming church ang ng didivide,.. kase hindi mo matangap ang style nila and vice versa,.. don't judge the book LALO NA if you are not a judge,..

 “The church is not a place where perfect people gather to say perfect things, or have perfect thoughts, or have perfect feelings. The Church is a place where imperfect people gather to provide encouragement, support, and service to each other as we press on in our journey to return to our Heavenly Father.”

― Joseph B. Wirthlin

so if ng pa tattoo tayo,.. pananagutan "natin" yun sa LORD at hindi ng iba,..,..

Offline HappyCoolers

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #109 on: October 04, 2014, 05:02:55 PM »
mas marami akong nakikitang judgmental sa loob ng church kaysa judgmental na may tattoo.,,. yan ang dahilan kaya ang dami daming church ang ng didivide,.. kase hindi mo matangap ang style nila and vice versa,.. don't judge the book LALO NA if you are not a judge,..

 “The church is not a place where perfect people gather to say perfect things, or have perfect thoughts, or have perfect feelings. The Church is a place where imperfect people gather to provide encouragement, support, and service to each other as we press on in our journey to return to our Heavenly Father.”

― Joseph B. Wirthlin

so if ng pa tattoo tayo,.. pananagutan "natin" yun sa LORD at hindi ng iba,..,..

Agree!  :-D

Offline norvin_mangunay

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #110 on: October 08, 2014, 02:03:09 AM »
This thread made me research a bit about what the Bible has to say with regards to tattoos. Be it the Old or New Testament, it's quite clear ;)

Just want to share it with you guys.

http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/bible-say-about-tattoos/

http://www.gotquestions.org/tattoos-sin.html

http://bibleresources.org/tattoos/
« Last Edit: October 08, 2014, 02:07:01 AM by norvin_mangunay »
Deuteronomy 8:18 "But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms His covenant, which he swore to your ancestors, as it is today."

Offline iyzburg

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #111 on: October 08, 2014, 09:45:06 AM »
The
This thread made me research a bit about what the Bible has to say with regards to tattoos. Be it the Old or New Testament, it's quite clear ;)

The discussion went to:
- is anyone in a position to judge?
- should I be concerned with what others think of me?
- is it really that 'clear' in the Bible?
- church that seeks to impose decision to members is in simplest term: a control machine
- a gross misunderstanding of the Kingdom of God.

So the links you posted will inevitably get a rationalization, and may ultimately boil down to "preference." Continue building up your 'case' instead from the Word, and be prepared to counsel anyone, who trusts your counsel, asks you that question.
Deut 11:13 ...love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...

Offline norvin_mangunay

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #112 on: October 08, 2014, 01:32:26 PM »
Yes we can basically rationalize with everything in this world- what you seek  is what you will find. It depends on how we were brought up, the society we live in etc.  But at times, things like this tend to be so simple. My understanding of the TS's question is if it's ok for a Worship team member to have a tattoo and my opinion is merely based on the Word. I don't judge people ( I don't have the right to and the time also.) I aim to relentlessly live a normal life, without complicating matters like judging people. I have several close friends who are inked and it don't mean a thing to me. I still cherish our friendship. I definitely don't intend to  counsel anyone. Its just my opinion which I believe I have the liberty upon. ;) God bless us.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2014, 02:14:24 PM by norvin_mangunay »
Deuteronomy 8:18 "But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms His covenant, which he swore to your ancestors, as it is today."

Offline esb2290

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #113 on: October 14, 2014, 05:27:14 PM »
In my opinion, bakit ka magpapa-tatoo? If your motive is  to win this generation it's not enough reason to get a tattoo. There's a lot of ways to win the generation today.

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #114 on: October 15, 2014, 08:53:37 AM »
Medyo OT but somewhat related:
What about girls' earrings? I don't know about the current generation of young people but AFAIK in my generation piercings for earrings are usually made in early childhood, sometimes even just past infancy when girls are not able to decide these things or themselves. If the basis is scripture, then there should not be any distinction from the bodily harm done by piercing and tattooing.
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Offline ron_rd57

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #115 on: October 15, 2014, 01:47:14 PM »
Medyo OT but somewhat related:
What about girls' earrings? I don't know about the current generation of young people but AFAIK in my generation piercings for earrings are usually made in early childhood, sometimes even just past infancy when girls are not able to decide these things or themselves. If the basis is scripture, then there should not be any distinction from the bodily harm done by piercing and tattooing.

some Christians criticized males for having piercings, they said that in the Bible only slaves would get piercings,

Deuteronomy 15:17
Then you shall take an awl, and put it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your slave forever. And to your female slave you shall do the same.


people use this verse without thinking that the book of Deuteronomy is exclusively for the Jews, because they are the chosen nation,
so God sets up laws for that country for them to follow which some of it is not necessary for us to follow because we are Gentiles and we are not Jews,
we are justified by Grace not by the Law....

if we would follow the Jews tradition then we should not eat some meats, or have the Church service on sunday but on saturday,
and lot's of other stuffs..

Let's not spiritualized things too much..
the Earth is the Lord's and everything on it..  :)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 01:49:46 PM by ron_rd57 »

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #116 on: October 15, 2014, 02:23:48 PM »
some Christians criticized males for having piercings, they said that in the Bible only slaves would get piercings,

Deuteronomy 15:17
Then you shall take an awl, and put it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your slave forever. And to your female slave you shall do the same.


people use this verse without thinking that the book of Deuteronomy is exclusively for the Jews, because they are the chosen nation,
so God sets up laws for that country for them to follow which some of it is not necessary for us to follow because we are Gentiles and we are not Jews,
we are justified by Grace not by the Law....

if we would follow the Jews tradition then we should not eat some meats, or have the Church service on sunday but on saturday,
and lot's of other stuffs..

Let's not spiritualized things too much..
the Earth is the Lord's and everything on it..  :)

I agree with this, and while only implicit, the NT does override quite a number of major Jewish laws and traditions Jesus deems to be out of the spirit of the law.

I just wanted to see if anyone would make an exception for female ear piercings, and that would show me that either that person's interpretation of the law is flawed, that opinion supersedes scripture, or the person failed to classify ear piercings similar to a tattoo (as defined in the scripture). Given that scripture is the basis, thus, if someone says female ear piercings are okay, then they should be okay with tattoos. Conversely, those who are not okay with tattoos should also be equally opposed to female ear piercings. Otherwise, I can safely say that one who refers to scripture and is against tattoos (taboo in today's society) but not female ear piercings (not taboo in today's society) is speaking with opinion and not actually based on scripture.
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Offline IncX

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #117 on: October 15, 2014, 05:45:32 PM »
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.

and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.

you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.

Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #118 on: October 15, 2014, 05:55:09 PM »
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.

and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.

you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.

not too dissimilar from business/military etiquette. churches have their norms, and of course tattoos are one of the major taboos. if you believe it's alright to be inked, that's fine. but like sir IncX said, don't show it in church. the church is an organization with norms just like the coporate world or the military, all whom prefer that tattoos be invisible. tattoos in church is as much a social issue as it is an issue of religion.
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Offline ron_rd57

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #119 on: October 15, 2014, 06:49:13 PM »
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.

and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.

you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.

yup tama, i don't think it will be accepted in the church..
some groups might accept it, but to generalize it that all church universally should accept it..
not gonna happen, some people still locked up to traditions and some beliefs..
different organization have different leaders with different experiences and different theological opinions..
if a person is condemned or criticized harshly because of his/her tattoos and body piercings, etc. by a denomination or church better find a
new home church, but the most polite thing to do, is magpaalam ng maayos and formal..
talk to your head leader of the congregation and ask for his/her blessing
by this you won't be regarded as a rebel..some might still label you as a rebel, but still this is the right thing to do instead of not showing up
and not letting them know about it..
two options lang naman is whether magpasakop or to leave..

Offline norvin_mangunay

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #120 on: October 16, 2014, 09:08:59 AM »
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.

and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.

you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.
+1 Precisely.
You can come up with any reason you want but I belelieve that the main point is it doesn't fit worshippers. If there's something to debate about being acceptable or not... it's quite obvious that it has its flaws, thus, being unacceptable to the church.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 09:12:42 AM by norvin_mangunay »
Deuteronomy 8:18 "But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms His covenant, which he swore to your ancestors, as it is today."

Offline iyzburg

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #121 on: October 17, 2014, 12:55:49 PM »
How did earrings and body piercings come in?

Medyo OT but somewhat related:
What about girls' earrings? I don't know about the current generation of young people but AFAIK in my generation piercings for earrings are usually made in early childhood, sometimes even just past infancy when girls are not able to decide these things or themselves. If the basis is scripture, then there should not be any distinction from the bodily harm done by piercing and tattooing.

I agree with this, and while only implicit, the NT does override quite a number of major Jewish laws and traditions Jesus deems to be out of the spirit of the law.

I just wanted to see if anyone would make an exception for female ear piercings, and that would show me that either that person's interpretation of the law is flawed, that opinion supersedes scripture, or the person failed to classify ear piercings similar to a tattoo (as defined in the scripture). Given that scripture is the basis, thus, if someone says female ear piercings are okay, then they should be okay with tattoos. Conversely, those who are not okay with tattoos should also be equally opposed to female ear piercings. Otherwise, I can safely say that one who refers to scripture and is against tattoos (taboo in today's society) but not female ear piercings (not taboo in today's society) is speaking with opinion and not actually based on scripture.

There are those who are not familiar with the law, so do care to enlighten.. So like, what law or scripture are you talking about? What scripture puts "bodily harm" and "piercing" and "tattoo" in a single thought that it is unlawful? Or what scripture are you basing the thought that tattoos and body adornments (you said earrings) are both put in a context that it is unlawful? The Deut 15:17 ron posted, if how he witnessed used as pambatikos to someone who pierced, it's way out of context, but it's not even entirely about piercing for adornment..

Then the "taboo" thing.. So because something is "taboo" right now that is not directly stated as "taboo" in the old society, means that everything considered taboo for a Christian nowadays is based on opinion, not on scripture? Extending then the thought, though it stretching too far -- because Meth is a taboo now because of the modern anti-dangerous drug act, if I don't take it 'for the sake of Christ,' I'm basing it on opinion and not on scripture? It's far fetched, but the taboo argument some one might take too far, like what I exampled.

You may be setting up a totally unrelated thing you can stab as unreasonable to consider something else, the main topic (tattoos and its acceptability in the setting the TS asked) as unreasonable..
Deut 11:13 ...love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...

Offline gandydancer123

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #122 on: October 17, 2014, 01:57:20 PM »
tattoos and church do not match. if you have one and show it in all of its glory, then yep, you are gonna get flack for it. it would be silly for you to think that people will just be cool with you having a full sleeve tattoo.

and to take the discussion further, if i had a 24 year old daughter who showed up to me with a 26 year old bf with full-sleeved tattoos, i would kick the guy out, unless he is financially stable, and knows the basics like "not showing his tattoos the first time he meets his gf's dad" ... so the same goes for the tattooed church guy - do not show your ink in church.... save that for the rock clubs.

you can quote 10 million things about how it is ok to be an inked christian, but fact of the matter is, it is NOT the norm, and it is distracting.

good point...
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Offline sonicassault

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #123 on: October 17, 2014, 02:07:27 PM »
How did earrings and body piercings come in?

There are those who are not familiar with the law, so do care to enlighten.. So like, what law or scripture are you talking about? What scripture puts "bodily harm" and "piercing" and "tattoo" in a single thought that it is unlawful? Or what scripture are you basing the thought that tattoos and body adornments (you said earrings) are both put in a context that it is unlawful? The Deut 15:17 ron posted, if how he witnessed used as pambatikos to someone who pierced, it's way out of context, but it's not even entirely about piercing for adornment..

Then the "taboo" thing.. So because something is "taboo" right now that is not directly stated as "taboo" in the old society, means that everything considered taboo for a Christian nowadays is based on opinion, not on scripture? Extending then the thought, though it stretching too far -- because Meth is a taboo now because of the modern anti-dangerous drug act, if I don't take it 'for the sake of Christ,' I'm basing it on opinion and not on scripture? It's far fetched, but the taboo argument some one might take too far, like what I exampled.

You may be setting up a totally unrelated thing you can stab as unreasonable to consider something else, the main topic (tattoos and its acceptability in the setting the TS asked) as unreasonable..

1. Leviticus 19:28 is the oft mentioned scripture regarding tattoos.
says, "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD."
Now, taken as it is, this is a command that prohibits cutting AND markings because of the dead.
Most people who quote this against tattoos also leave out the part where people do it for the dead.
Therefore, if one can affirm the prohibition of markings without the consideration of the dead, then one can also affirm the prohibition of piercings without consideration of the dead. Thus, in this line of thought, one can find a prohibition for both piercings and tattoos in the same verse.

HOWEVER, I must state that by using the aforementioned line of thought, the verse is taken out of context (that being doing these things for the dead), and thus I was able to argue that one may have a flawed interpretation, one's opinion superseded the scripture (nitpicking the piercings and tattoos, and leaving the "for the dead" part out), or failing to classify piercings and tattoos as the same (as stated, both are done for the dead).

2. I don't think I ever insinuated that what is considered taboo now is entirely based on opinion and not scripture. It's pretty ill-thinking to say that all taboo is based entirely on opinion, because by definition, taboo is "a social or religious custom prohibiting or forbidding discussion of a particular practice or forbidding association with a particular person, place, or thing."
As well, a custom is "a traditional and widely accepted way of behaving or doing something that is specific to a particular society, place, or time." And in turn, tradition is "the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way."
Basically speaking, a taboo is always based on beliefs, whether from the scripture, which is the Christian religious tradition, or our own opinions shaped by the society we live in now. A taboo can be based entirely on scripture, both on scripture and opinion, or entirely on opinion, so I don't really know why I'm taking the flak on your second point if I actually agree with you anyway.
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Offline iyzburg

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Re: Worship Members with tattoos, your opinions
« Reply #124 on: October 17, 2014, 03:29:45 PM »
1. I hear you on the the Leviticus. Definitely, many do take it out of context, like a blanket prohibition of both ink and all sorts of cutting on the flesh. If I remember right, I think those were ritual practices of the pagan neighbors of the Jews in the Ancient Near East. But also, again, with what you say that opinion varies from reader to reader, I've read some argue that the 'for the dead' modifies/qualifies only the phrase "cuttings on your flesh".. Ergo, the 'for the dead' does not modify the phrase "do not make any markings.."

I'm just saying that what you argued on, your interpretation of that verse, was already argued against a lot of times. So then, it would go that if you charge them to have a sore misunderstanding or misapplication of the law, such charge will come biting back at you. So all of course is for the benefit of those who would take interest on this in this forum, and go search out for more answers..

2. I'm not flaking you, I'm very sorry for that. I'm just pointing to what you said na, because of the law:
  • anyone not agreeing with tattoos should also not agree with female earrings; or
  • anyone using the law to disagree with tats but not on earrings is not basing it on scripture but on flawed opinion that supersedes scripture
I just quipped the taboo 'analogy', which I described as 'stretching too far', to stress that the whole thing you said which I quoted stretches too far from the issue of earrings (your choice of example) with tattoos, with the subject of the topic (though you said it was OT but related), with the verse you chose to quote above, propriety in church, opinion reigning over scripture, etc.

IncX brought much of it back to where the discussion is all about, I guess.
Deut 11:13 ...love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul...