When jazz musicians earn more from raket projects/bands

[skunkyfunk]

If there is one thing I noticed about jazz musicians, that most alt rock/metal players cannot do is have a side band/project/job that is music-related but earns big bucks.  You can be a noon-time show player, a studio slut, a film scorer, a popstar session player, etc.   

But if I may ask, aren't you sometimes pissed when people know you more for your rakets than your passion in music? 

[blackwingchai]

eto yung mga GIG Whore, kahit spagethi pababa tutugtugin basta may kita. matatagpuan sila sa mga hotels restaurants at birthday parties.

masakit mang isipin pero totoo, at tama nakakasar.

[rjtorres]

Hindi ba kahit naman sa ibang non-music na trabaho, hindi rin marami ang nakakakuha ng gusto talaga nila, let alone be recognized by it?

Tingin ko depende na sa pagmamarket ng sarili yan; I mean if you want to be recognized as a jazz/blues musician, then try to find ways to "jazz" up your gigs. I believe people often define others by what they do (that of course makes significant impact). So naturally if you play a lot of non-jazz music, then you will be defined by non-jazz music.


Pero parang mahirap talaga para tumugtog ng jazz, or kahit parang jazz-like lang yung style - baka hindi ka na pabalikin sa gig, mahinang selling point kasi. Pero ganun talaga, hindi naman talaga ginawa ang musika (lalo na jazz or blues) para ibenta eh. Lalo na ngayon, konti lang may gusto nun, kaya konti rin lang bibili.

[blackwingchai]

oo, tama i agree, parang art is not for everybody, if its for everybody then its not art.
sad to say lots of filipinos are into entertainment than art.

[bluenote]

If there is one thing I noticed about jazz musicians, that most alt rock/metal players cannot do is have a side band/project/job that is music-related but earns big bucks.  You can be a noon-time show player, a studio slut, a film scorer, a popstar session player, etc.   

But if I may ask, aren't you sometimes pissed when people know you more for your rakets than your passion in music? 

This is because Jazz musicians are more flexible... Most can do several different styles very well... Why should we get pissed? There's nothing wrong with getting attention be it in Jazz or Pop and make a living out of it... Sure some may call us gig whores but do you really think its easy being one? It takes a lot of skill to be a gig whore mind you especially in the session circle... Haven't you guys noticed that some of the best musicians in the world are gig whores...  Most do it because it can be a decent if not lucrative source of income...
Sometimes though some people like me for example looses their ability to stomach popular music especially when what is popular becomes too stupid to play by musiko standards... That's when I decided to have a career change kasi it wasn't fun anymore...
Pop music seem to be dumber and dumber every year but of course every once in a while something popular comes up that is worth playing but most of the time nakaka baba na ng IQ kaya ayoko na suko na ako!!!
 

[edmund]

hayaan niyo na-kelangan din naman kumita,hirap kaya kumita sa jazz 

[rjtorres]

This is because Jazz musicians are more flexible... Most can do several different styles very well... Why should we get pissed? There's nothing wrong with getting attention be it in Jazz or Pop and make a living out of it... Sure some may call us gig whores but do you really think its easy being one? It takes a lot of skill to be a gig whore mind you especially in the session circle... Haven't you guys noticed that some of the best musicians in the world are gig whores...  Most do it because it can be a decent if not lucrative source of income...
Sometimes though some people like me for example looses their ability to stomach popular music especially when what is popular becomes too stupid to play by musiko standards... That's when I decided to have a career change kasi it wasn't fun anymore...
Pop music seem to be dumber and dumber every year but of course every once in a while something popular comes up that is worth playing but most of the time nakaka baba na ng IQ kaya ayoko na suko na ako!!!
 

Haha! Sa pakikinig palang ng radio, alam mo na eh. Kaya di na ako nagraradio ngayon eh, maliban sa 106.7 (kapag wala nang battery music player ko), at least smooth jazz. Hindi paulit-ulit-ulit-ulit-ulit-ulit-ulit-ulit... 

Meron bang iba pang ok sa radio station dito sa Manila?

[blackwingchai]

linawin ko lang mga sirs, bago may magalit sakin, nakakaasar isipin ang magagaling na artist kailangang di sila kumikita sa gusto nilang gawin. di ako naasar sa gig whores, dahil syaang yung galing nila di naapriciate. walang pinagiba sa ibang industry, yung mga pinoy docktor nag nurse dahil sa in demand sa abroad.

[Erzon]

kelangan pa ba i memorize yan??? hahaha

nakatutok ba? hahaha



I hate this station.. dahil sa station na to, huminto na ako makinig sa radyo..

ehehe...same station ba yan nung "to-to-tot" ? ehehe kainis nga talaga...

sa oto ko 105.1 , 106.7 tska 92.3 na lang pinapakinggan ko na stations

[burnsbhm]

Gig Whores......I am kinda disturbed with the term.

Although dito ko lang nabasa yung term na yun, I have been hearing that concept sa mga musicians for the longest time na.

Let me itemize para ma-organize thoughts ko, and all in the terms of a guitarist:

1. There are some who complained that kaunti or wala silang gigs than others who can be a reliever sa mga absent na guitarist kahit walang ensayo. In other words, pag walang tugtog band nila, gutom sila. I asked them if they play many styles of music or marami silang pondo. 90% percent of them would say "R&B lang ako" or "rock lang ako."

2. There are some who complained that although they are very versatile, they also cannot get gigs for relievers. This takes time. They have to build a sizeable network para makaikot sila. Get themselves known and prove to them that they can play almost anything. It will come.

3. There are some who lamented they cannot get highly paid session gigs. The reason being they cannot read notes. Simple, the more knowledge you have, the better are your chances in getting prestigious back-up musician gigs. Most will diss me on this but it is true - READING MUSIC IS IMPORTANT although not encompassing.

4. Still some will say that "gig whores" are not true to themselves. They would rather starve and stay true to themselves rather that learn other styles and get something to eat tomorrow.

In all these phases, I've been there. And I really have to change my attitude and outlook in this business to get to where I am now. I am not saying I am a rich man now but at least, I can get the respect of a lot of musicians who are in the business for decades. As a plus, I get the occassional reliever gigs and to back-up known artists.

You can be a rock star who only plays his own material or be more versatile and be a working musician. It's your choice.

[rjtorres]

Gig Whores......I am kinda disturbed with the term.

Although dito ko lang nabasa yung term na yun, I have been hearing that concept sa mga musicians for the longest time na.

Let me itemize para ma-organize thoughts ko, and all in the terms of a guitarist:

1. There are some who complained that kaunti or wala silang gigs than others who can be a reliever sa mga absent na guitarist kahit walang ensayo. In other words, pag walang tugtog band nila, gutom sila. I asked them if they play many styles of music or marami silang pondo. 90% percent of them would say "R&B lang ako" or "rock lang ako."

2. There are some who complained that although they are very versatile, they also cannot get gigs for relievers. This takes time. They have to build a sizeable network para makaikot sila. Get themselves known and prove to them that they can play almost anything. It will come.

3. There are some who lamented they cannot get highly paid session gigs. The reason being they cannot read notes. Simple, the more knowledge you have, the better are your chances in getting prestigious back-up musician gigs. Most will diss me on this but it is true - READING MUSIC IS IMPORTANT although not encompassing.

4. Still some will say that "gig whores" are not true to themselves. They would rather starve and stay true to themselves rather that learn other styles and get something to eat tomorrow.

In all these phases, I've been there. And I really have to change my attitude and outlook in this business to get to where I am now. I am not saying I am a rich man now but at least, I can get the respect of a lot of musicians who are in the business for decades. As a plus, I get the occassional reliever gigs and to back-up known artists.

You can be a rock star who only plays his own material or be more versatile and be a working musician. It's your choice.

I read the "gig-whores" in some comedic article. Kaso, hindi ko na mahanap ngayon, nice read though. Meron pang The Chosen Ones, Silver-spoons, etc. Kanya-kanyang classification. I'll try to look for it then post it here.

[rjtorres]

http://www.amismusicalcircle.com/library/careers_in_jazz_p1.htm

[william251082]

Marami namang gig naman na gagana ang pagkamusician mo ah, jazz/blues festivals, studio works, professional concert, sa hotel oks na oks ang jazz, arranging, composing, giving workshops etc. Eh di wag mo gawin yung ayaw mo, nag-showband ako dati, itinigil ko na lang kasi i felt more like a jukebox than a musician. Para sa 'kin, turo na lang kesa cheap music, papaubaya ko na lang yun sa mga gusto gumawa nun.

[jimy james]

more than two decades back @ the Abelardo Hall, yng mga senyor sa UP Jazz Ensemble na tini-tingala namin ay mga "jazz purist"... yng mga "Bop till you drop", "Groove or Die" ... mga galing pang Berklee Collage of Music... those who swear to play only mainstream jazz & nothing else. Taksil ka daw pag nag Pop or commercial ka...  

after a few years, most of them became "session-artists" for Pop bands, Music awards, Pop divas, noontime shows & what have you... siempre pag may pamilya na, tabi muna yung pagka "artist" mo... you can't play like Charlie Parker, Coltrane, Mc Laughlin, Corea, Zawinul, McCoy Tyner, Pat Metheny or Joe Pass forever... magugutom pamilya mo... ( unless you're loaded )  

but now I see these peeps w/ project bands, playing "straight jazz" at some cheesy bars... or at some Jazz Fest... Jazz bands are active @ Bacolod... ( buti pa sila dun ), meron din naman dito sa QC, every monday nights sa Freedom bar, or wednesdays @ Ten02...

Aya Yuson, Mar Dizon, Yatpu's band, Koyang's Trio, Johnny Alegre, Billy Melendrez & others still keeps the spirit of jazz alive in MM.    sana dumami pa... kahit "Igop" na ssaj, basta't astig yung gitarista @ rapsuy yung groove ng smurd, oks parin!

JAZZ RULES !!!

[blackwingchai]

more than two decades back @ the Abelardo Hall, yng mga senyor sa UP Jazz Ensemble na tini-tingala namin ay mga "jazz purist"... yng mga "Bop till you drop", "Groove or Die" ... mga galing pang Berklee Collage of Music... those who swear to play only mainstream jazz & nothing else. Taksil ka daw pag nag Pop or commercial ka...  

after a few years, most of them became "session-artists" for Pop bands, Music awards, Pop divas, noontime shows & what have you... siempre pag may pamilya na, tabi muna yung pagka "artist" mo... you can't play like Charlie Parker, Coltrane, Mc Laughlin, Corea, Zawinul, McCoy Tyner, Pat Metheny or Joe Pass forever... magugutom pamilya mo... ( unless you're loaded )  

but now I see these peeps w/ project bands, playing "straight jazz" at some cheesy bars... or at some Jazz Fest... Jazz bands are active @ Bacolod... ( buti pa sila dun ), meron din naman dito sa QC, every monday nights sa Freedom bar, or wednesdays @ Ten02...

Aya Yuson, Mar Dizon, Yatpu's band, Koyang's Trio, Johnny Alegre, Billy Melendrez & others still keeps the spirit of jazz alive in MM.    sana dumami pa... kahit "Igop" na ssaj, basta't astig yung gitarista @ rapsuy yung groove ng smurd, oks parin!

JAZZ RULES !!!

ayus, bakit kasi weekdays di ba pedeng weekend yan sir? hehehe

[william251082]

more than two decades back @ the Abelardo Hall, yng mga senyor sa UP Jazz Ensemble na tini-tingala namin ay mga "jazz purist"... yng mga "Bop till you drop", "Groove or Die" ... mga galing pang Berklee Collage of Music... those who swear to play only mainstream jazz & nothing else. Taksil ka daw pag nag Pop or commercial ka...  

after a few years, most of them became "session-artists" for Pop bands, Music awards, Pop divas, noontime shows & what have you... siempre pag may pamilya na, tabi muna yung pagka "artist" mo... you can't play like Charlie Parker, Coltrane, Mc Laughlin, Corea, Zawinul, McCoy Tyner, Pat Metheny or Joe Pass forever... magugutom pamilya mo... ( unless you're loaded )  

but now I see these peeps w/ project bands, playing "straight jazz" at some cheesy bars... or at some Jazz Fest... Jazz bands are active @ Bacolod... ( buti pa sila dun ), meron din naman dito sa QC, every monday nights sa Freedom bar, or wednesdays @ Ten02...

Aya Yuson, Mar Dizon, Yatpu's band, Koyang's Trio, Johnny Alegre, Billy Melendrez & others still keeps the spirit of jazz alive in MM.    sana dumami pa... kahit "Igop" na ssaj, basta't astig yung gitarista @ rapsuy yung groove ng smurd, oks parin!

JAZZ RULES !!!

2 decades? ilang taon ka na ba pre? Hindi ka mukhang matanda dun sa picture mo with Scofield heheheh

Gusto kong sumali dun sa "Groove or Die" wahahah

[blues2death]

we all do what we gotta do to earn a living.

I play with a number of noted Filipino Jazz musicians here in Los Angeles.
I run into them all the time.

Tateng Katindig- we all know who he is....

Yong Nalasa--Keyboardist and also a noted producer/arranger back in the day sa Pinas. He has worked with the greats.

Roy Venturina--keyboardist for Randy Santiago and other artists noon, now he plays in Vegas casinos for a band called Society of Seven which has featured Lani Misalucha for more than 5 yrs. Now SOS is fronted by Jasmine Trias (I played for her too).

Ner De Leon--Saxophonist. Slowly making a name in the Fil-AM community here. He is also no stranger in the LA jazz scene.

Miko Espanol--jazz bassist. Showband din noong araw sa pinas. Like me, nakapag session din sya sa pinas with many celebrity vocalists.

Mon David and Charmaine Clamor--critically acclaimed jazz singers here.

Myke Gonzaga--he plays a mean jazz and blues guitar. I watched him sing Purple Rain once, and he totally ripped on the ending solo.

Patrick Almonia--bassist dati ng Passage. He owns a sophisticated PA system dito sa LA which he rents out. And he formed a wedding band: ANAPOLIS Live. I play guitars for this band occasionally. Jay Valencia (guitarista ng True Faith dati) was the guitar player before me.

Abe Lagrimas Jr. --one of the best drummers on the LA scene right now. I play weddings for this guy, occasionally.


common denominator of all I mentioned. At least once, I would say most of the guys here have a played a club or casino lounge...most likely nakapagtugtog(kanta) ang mga to ng "Let's Groove" ng EWF.

In fact I played with a guy who played keyboards in EWF. Gustavo Ramirez. He is a noted latin pianist in the OC and LA.

I also played a wedding once with a guy named Dave Anderson, who plays drums for David Benoit.

And then there's Channing, a black drummer who plays great funky fills in a band called Common Ground. He does the showband thing, and then he goes and plays with Lauryn Hill.

chances are, those who are play with here...filipino and non filipino....deal with different genres...

I play blues...and I discovered I can play jazz too(within reason)...I played a gig with tateng, ner de leon and Louie Reyes. oh and there's also Kevyn Lettau. Yes I was able to play for her.

And that all happened in a matter of 2 yrs ever since I became a fulltime musician. Just shows that if you are good with your network...and you keep your chops up and you have a little talent, then you can make it work.

Oh and this all happened even if I didnt have my own car, in LA kailangan may kotse ka para makapagtrabaho kahit saan.

God's grace is good.

I asked Ner de leon once, what kind of gigs would he play. He said "Everything".....wag kang mamili. If the money is reasonably good. go for it.

There's this guy who said he played bass with everyone from George Benson to EWF to Larry Carlton---medyo nagyayabang....ang haba ng list nya eh....

I let him finish and when he was done I said..." and now you play with me, in a top 40 band , in the middle of the Nevada desert at 100 bucks a night with free buffet "

hehehe, yes I am a gig whore.....and I get to do what I enjoy and I meet all these musicians. Life is good.

[swinger]

Gig Whores......I am kinda disturbed with the term.

Although dito ko lang nabasa yung term na yun, I have been hearing that concept sa mga musicians for the longest time na.

Let me itemize para ma-organize thoughts ko, and all in the terms of a guitarist:

1. There are some who complained that kaunti or wala silang gigs than others who can be a reliever sa mga absent na guitarist kahit walang ensayo. In other words, pag walang tugtog band nila, gutom sila. I asked them if they play many styles of music or marami silang pondo. 90% percent of them would say "R&B lang ako" or "rock lang ako."

2. There are some who complained that although they are very versatile, they also cannot get gigs for relievers. This takes time. They have to build a sizeable network para makaikot sila. Get themselves known and prove to them that they can play almost anything. It will come.

3. There are some who lamented they cannot get highly paid session gigs. The reason being they cannot read notes. Simple, the more knowledge you have, the better are your chances in getting prestigious back-up musician gigs. Most will diss me on this but it is true - READING MUSIC IS IMPORTANT although not encompassing.

4. Still some will say that "gig whores" are not true to themselves. They would rather starve and stay true to themselves rather that learn other styles and get something to eat tomorrow.

In all these phases, I've been there. And I really have to change my attitude and outlook in this business to get to where I am now. I am not saying I am a rich man now but at least, I can get the respect of a lot of musicians who are in the business for decades. As a plus, I get the occassional reliever gigs and to back-up known artists.

You can be a rock star who only plays his own material or be more versatile and be a working musician. It's your choice.

Very well said.

Mabuhay ka nyor!

[jimy james]

we all do what we gotta do to earn a living.

I play with a number of noted Filipino Jazz musicians here in Los Angeles.
I run into them all the time.

Tateng Katindig- we all know who he is.... ( kumpare ko yan )

Yong Nalasa--Keyboardist and also a noted producer/arranger back in the day sa Pinas. He has worked with the greats.

Roy Venturina--keyboardist for Randy Santiago and other artists noon, now he plays in Vegas casinos for a band called Society of Seven which has featured Lani Misalucha for more than 5 yrs. Now SOS is fronted by Jasmine Trias (I played for her too).

Ner De Leon--Saxophonist. Slowly making a name in the Fil-AM community here. He is also no stranger in the LA jazz scene.

Miko Espanol--jazz bassist. Showband din noong araw sa pinas. Like me, nakapag session din sya sa pinas with many celebrity vocalists.

Mon David and Charmaine Clamor--critically acclaimed jazz singers here.

Myke Gonzaga--he plays a mean jazz and blues guitar. I watched him sing Purple Rain once, and he totally ripped on the ending solo.

Patrick Almonia--bassist dati ng Passage. He owns a sophisticated PA system dito sa LA which he rents out. And he formed a wedding band: ANAPOLIS Live. I play guitars for this band occasionally. Jay Valencia (guitarista ng True Faith dati) was the guitar player before me.

Abe Lagrimas Jr. --one of the best drummers on the LA scene right now. I play weddings for this guy, occasionally.


common denominator of all I mentioned. At least once, I would say most of the guys here have a played a club or casino lounge...most likely nakapagtugtog(kanta) ang mga to ng "Let's Groove" ng EWF.

In fact I played with a guy who played keyboards in EWF. Gustavo Ramirez. He is a noted latin pianist in the OC and LA.

I also played a wedding once with a guy named Dave Anderson, who plays drums for David Benoit.

And then there's Channing, a black drummer who plays great funky fills in a band called Common Ground. He does the showband thing, and then he goes and plays with Lauryn Hill.

chances are, those who are play with here...filipino and non filipino....deal with different genres...

I play blues...and I discovered I can play jazz too(within reason)...I played a gig with tateng, ner de leon and Louie Reyes. oh and there's also Kevyn Lettau. Yes I was able to play for her.

And that all happened in a matter of 2 yrs ever since I became a fulltime musician. Just shows that if you are good with your network...and you keep your chops up and you have a little talent, then you can make it work.

Oh and this all happened even if I didnt have my own car, in LA kailangan may kotse ka para makapagtrabaho kahit saan.

God's grace is good.

I asked Ner de leon once, what kind of gigs would he play. He said "Everything".....wag kang mamili. If the money is reasonably good. go for it.

There's this guy who said he played bass with everyone from George Benson to EWF to Larry Carlton---medyo nagyayabang....ang haba ng list nya eh....

I let him finish and when he was done I said..." and now you play with me, in a top 40 band , in the middle of the Nevada desert at 100 bucks a night with free buffet "

hehehe, yes I am a gig whore.....and I get to do what I enjoy and I meet all these musicians. Life is good.

Tateng Katindig- we all know who he is.... ( kumpare ko yan )


" and now you play with me, in a top 40 band , in the middle of the Nevada desert at 100 bucks a night with free buffet "

How I wish I can do this six nights a week @ Hotel Sofitel ( w/ buffet at Spiral   )  

or kahit sa DADS / SAISAKI  
oks din maging house band dun... Sushi palang, Panalo na  RAPSA


God's grace is good.

AMEN !

Ingatz lagi bro. Muzta kay Tateng ( pati kay Perf ).
God bless bro !

[blues2death]

jimi james...

are you on facebook? mas madalas ako ngayon dun kesa dito. 

[burnsbhm]

In the music biz, akala ng mga not in the know pag na profile ka ng media sa isang category, yun lang ang alam nilang gawin.
All musicians who are not stars have to make a living and the only way to do this as a full time musician is to be at any given place and at any given situation.

Alex Skolnick - Lead guitarist for Testament and pretty new to the jazz world (less than 20 years). He did bars and restaurant gigs while Testament was on a low time.

Nuno Bettencourt - Extreme guitarist now WORKS FOR RIHANNA

Peter Frampton - Pop/rock superstar in the 70s played for David Bowie and lots and lots of bar and restaurant gigs when his personal career was in a dry spell.

Steve Vai - before he was picked up by David Lee Roth and after Zappa, he did a lot of sessions on records and because money was tight, had to sell ice cream and do guitar lessons to make ends meet.

Sa business na ito, hindi ka puwede magmalaki at sabihin mo "I am true blue rocker" or "I am an artist not a working musician". Try to do that full time at wala kang kakainin kinabukasan.

Not that I am a rock star but I did hotel, lounge, small bars, GRO clubs, restaurants...everything para may kainin ako bukas. Hindi ako mayaman kaya kahit anong uri ng pagkakakitaan as long as tungkol sa musika papatulan ko.

Let's put it this way, I'd rather play "Ocho Ocho" and get paid for it than work in a bank at murahin lang ako ng kung sino sino!

[jimy james]

jimi james...

are you on facebook? mas madalas ako ngayon dun kesa dito. 

yes bro... pero noob ako sa FB eh   Lahat kasi sa music team dapat meron... kaya ayun...
add moko bro ( jimi james din ) sinearch ko blues2death, iba lumabas eh...

[jimy james]

2 decades? ilang taon ka na ba pre? Hindi ka mukhang matanda dun sa picture mo with Scofield heheheh

Gusto kong sumali dun sa "Groove or Die" wahahah

life begins at 40 bro kaya technically, baby pa ko 
2 of my boys are in collage now... the eldest is into prog rock, while the other one is into blues/rock.
Alaws nahilig kina mike stern, scofield, joe pass or even robben ford 

yung bunso kong gurl plays keys, violin, guitar & sings also...
trip nya si taylor swiftmightymeatyhotdog    ( kay aya ko nakuha yan )

[william251082]

life begins at 40 bro kaya technically, baby pa ko  
2 of my boys are in collage now... the eldest is into prog rock, while the other one is into blues/rock.
Alaws nahilig kina mike stern, scofield, joe pass or even robben ford  

yung bunso kong gurl plays keys, violin, guitar & sings also...
trip nya si taylor swiftmightymeatyhotdog    ( kay aya ko nakuha yan )

hhehehe bilis nga ng panahon eh, dati inuman lang kami ng inuman sa PWU nila jazhombie, ngayon, kailangan ng kumayod.
Eh di lahat ng gear mo sa kanila napunta? kaswerteng mga bata nire

[burnsbhm]

isang nakakatawang pangyayari..

I was once called to play for a show, sa rehearsal nagkita kita kami ng ilang medyo sikat na musicians sa pinas (di ko na sasabihin sino sila) kami ang band in session

ok naman yung mga songs.. pero may isang nasingit.. "aray" ni mae rivera yata yun


"aray, aray nakuuuu" .. gusto ko talaga masuka.. pero no choice. we agreed to play for the show and we have to deal with that song.. hahaha

Common tale yan Obet diba? Mga ganiyang incidents madali nang pinalalampas yan. At least kinabukasan may pambili ka na ng bigas o ulam sa bahay and plus the fact you earned that by doing the thing you love the most.