MP3 SoundClips Suck and Why They Shouldn't be used as basis for Selection

[MrGobots]

Great Gear rarely goes out of tune .... so its a non-issue for discussion at least in my experience.

Great Tone is a tool and like any other tool how you use it is AS important.  Just watch American Idol.  The Great Singers have so many factors that make them great singers BUT look at whats common.  Whats common is that ALL of their voices have GREAT TONE.

But using MP3s at 5% fidelity?  For a lot I guess thats sufficient but I won't even bother given my standards.  In my experience, for the people who come over and try out my gear IN PERSON; they are so shocked that Guitar Gear can sound so good.  They usually start out with the usual -- LETS SEE WHAT THIS GUY HAS TYPE OF ATTITUDE.  When they finish; as if they have never heard such great gear in their life.   

(replying  just for the sake of discussion, hoping no heat shall rise. replies based on the points implied)

For me, some of the worst singers I've heard have been on American Idol. Yet with your standards, I should watch them looking for great singers? Nah... There's no "my standards are higher than yours", only preferences. What sounds gold to you may sound like dirt to me, but hey whatever. For the record I have heard your Yaron up close and personal, and like me and  a few other guys watching it in action thought, it sounded great but not as great as you made it out to be. Its a great sounding guitar yes, but would I go the lengths you went through for that.... hmmm, not really. But to you its worth it, thats your preference, I can respect that. Maybe you also need to check what the people who come over to try your gear say when they have left your place.

An mp3 at 5% fidelity? If there's ever something like that, why would anyone base any decision on a file format you know upfront would sound like crap. Unless you make another sweeping statement that 95% of all mp3's are only at 5% fidelity 100% of the time, then that would be another discussion. But I guess most agree to trying gear in person before making a purchase, sound clips help them reach decisions on which gear to try. The worst person to ask about which gear you would prefer though, would be any other person that's not you.

You missed the whole point on why you got heat. It wasn't because you said mp3s suck, its because you said that tone over the phone sounded better than tone over mp3's (or something to that effect). I think all would agree that mp3's don't sound as good as the same songs on the original CD, but you got heat the last time because you said you'd rely more on what you hear over the phone than mp3's. Maybe someone can quote that, kakatamad mag-search. Maybe this thread is a non-issue because no one here has said that they rely ONLY on mp3's for their gear purchases.

[sonikyut]

..i think ill go out to Alberta...

[firemodel55]

OT:

Its been more than 2 years since you said that haha

But what you said was different. You said ibanez has more bad sounding guitars than there are good ones. Anyway I don't care, I'm not an ibby fan, will include your ibanez quote when I get home.

I never said that Ibanez had good guitars... ever....  You can look it up.  But I do believe that 95% of electric guitars sound bad based on my standards and unfortunately, Ibanez guitars don't even have good sounding ones for some strange reason.

[tongski_02]

..i think ill go out to Alberta...

"...weather's good there in the fall.....ive got some friends that i can go to workin' for...."

[firemodel55]

hell no! they will not pay that amount of money to watch a fat 32 year old chinese bass player with my skills, the same way no one would that amount of money to watch you play guitar.

let's face it man, there's more to entertainment than guitar tone.

taylor swift can play a lumanog, and i would pay 500php for that and call it a bargain... hell, i paid 4.5K (plus dvo-mla-dvo plane tickets) to watch Dashboard Confessional and they were playing Epiphones. best show evah!

To qualify, most of my comments and posts don't apply to bass guitar.  I know nothing about bass guitar and more so, I don't know how to rate a bass guitar player.  That being said, Mr. IncX, you don't know anything about how and why I play at all.  Lets keep it at that.  But since you don't gig for free (at least most of the time), you are in it for the money too.  Though I acknowledge OT na ito sa thread, I would like to point out to EVERYONE that IncX was the first person who started mentioning money.  If you read my original post, I never mentioned money at all.

I agree.  There's more to entertainment than guitar tone, but you better have nice sounding guitars if you don't want to turn your audience off. 

I agree that its lovely to watch Taylor Swift on a Lumanog but more ORGASMIC to watch her play on her Taylor.  I paid P100k in air fare to watch Van Halen live at Madison Square Garden.  Best show evah!

[firemodel55]

(replying  just for the sake of discussion, hoping no heat shall rise. replies based on the points implied)

For me, some of the worst singers I've heard have been on American Idol. Yet with your standards, I should watch them looking for great singers? Nah... There's no "my standards are higher than yours", only preferences. What sounds gold to you may sound like dirt to me, but hey whatever. For the record I have heard your Yaron up close and personal, and like me and  a few other guys watching it in action thought, it sounded great but not as great as you made it out to be. Its a great sounding guitar yes, but would I go the lengths you went through for that.... hmmm, not really. But to you its worth it, thats your preference, I can respect that. Maybe you also need to check what the people who come over to try your gear say when they have left your place.

An mp3 at 5% fidelity? If there's ever something like that, why would anyone base any decision on a file format you know upfront would sound like crap. Unless you make another sweeping statement that 95% of all mp3's are only at 5% fidelity 100% of the time, then that would be another discussion. But I guess most agree to trying gear in person before making a purchase, sound clips help them reach decisions on which gear to try. The worst person to ask about which gear you would prefer though, would be any other person that's not you.

You missed the whole point on why you got heat. It wasn't because you said mp3s suck, its because you said that tone over the phone sounded better than tone over mp3's (or something to that effect). I think all would agree that mp3's don't sound as good as the same songs on the original CD, but you got heat the last time because you said you'd rely more on what you hear over the phone than mp3's. Maybe someone can quote that, kakatamad mag-search. Maybe this thread is a non-issue because no one here has said that they rely ONLY on mp3's for their gear purchases.

Did you get to play MY Gil Yaron?  and thru my Amps?  I bet you didn't.  There is only one occassion wherein the Gil Yaron has been out for public use and that was during the Turi's Gear Show without my gear and without ME explaining and demoing to people why its a great guitar.  Given that limitation, that shows that you can NOT hear what I hear in instruments which is fine because its not easy.

For the record, other persons have made choices for me in my gear purchases -- other people I respect who know what Great Tone is.

At least I am happy now that nobody does purchase gear based ONLY on MP3s.  So...... STOP LISTENING to mp3s.   

[firemodel55]

Welcome back Mr. Oas. Looks like this never ending story is still alive and well. Truly a sign that Philmusic is back! 

BTT:

I completely agree with the thread title. I also agree that Youtube demos should not be used as a sole basis for buying guitar related gear or any kind of gear for that matter.

It is definitely a great tool to window-shop and see what's out there for us consumers but we should still go to music stores to audition gear before pulling the trigger of course.

Now, is this also the thread where you (Mr. Oas) can bash the tones of local gigging artists or should we just stick to the topic?

I have NOT yet bashed IncX's bass tones, have I?  In fact, I praised the tones of the Blue Ratts.  But other than their tones, its their total performance that really is top notch and they make sure that their guitars don't sound painful.

[Skybox]

Good morning Mr. Oas! 

[firemodel55]

i'd like to learn how to set a guitar up for that. i'd like to sit down and watch arie or someone like that do it too kasi i've never, and i mean never, met a guitar, even one with locking tuners, properly stretched strings, properly cut nut, that would not go even slightly out of tune, in the course of a set when given, uhm, proper persuasion. i play elevens (yes, even when using a guitar with an FR) and throttle the heck out of the thing when the sound i'm after requires me to do so, but otherwise, i'm as gentle as a well mannered shih-tzu on cesar milan's lap.

i mean stay completely in-tune with itself with chords ringing true and beat-less through 1 whole set and not require adjustment sometime during that set. its the nature of the design talaga yata. or anything with moving parts and parts that would naturally change with the surrounding environment.

not even the best locking tuners/locking nut setups in the market do that. they always require a bit of fine adjustment.

and its one of the things i cannot stand sa youtube video demos. when they take the trouble to record a video demo but skip tuning the damn thing properly. so i'm usually the guy commenting "tune the damn guitar!" or adding a +1 to those comments.

A long time ago when I owned ESPs and Ibanez guitars, I had these problems.  Though some SPECIFIC 80s Japanese Guitars like Tokai didn't go out of tune.  That being said, assuming you have good to great hardware in terms of bridge assembly and tuners, the only set up my guitars go through aside from intonation the first time around when I put on Pyramid Strings (Or when you install new pickups) is action.  You can ask Arie about my setup and my guitars.  He has played my Suhr Classic in one straight 8 song blues & 70s set without even adjusting any of vintage type tuners (cheers to Gotoh for that).  I have guitars with locking tuners, guitars with Floyd Rose bridges, guitars with the ABR setup, guitars with wrap over tailpieces, etc.

I can tell you that the one common factor is that they HIYAW as indicator that they are great guitars.  Arie noticed that guitars with HIYAW have straight necks that don't move & are stable and I believe that contributes to their tuning stability.  Its really dependent on your wood quality more than anything.

[firemodel55]

Good morning Mr. Oas! 

Good morning too Skybox...

[firemodel55]

Ito na lang isipin niyo.  When the first iPod came out, it was like, 5Gb in capacity, right? And at the time, THAT WAS A LOOOOOOOT OF SPACE for 128kbps MP3s. 

And look now, your iPad can at least store 16Gb of data. Your iPhone can store more songs than contacts.  AND PEOPLE STILL DO NOT MIND STORING 128KBPS MP3s!  AND NO ONE BOTHERS TO STORE IN LOSSLESS AIFF OR WAV!

So what does this tell us?  PEOPLE DO NOT CARE ABOUT FIDELITY.  When people buy (or steal) mp3s, they are after content, and not the sheer attempt of emulating realism through playback (aka fidelity).

Skunky, NOT ALL People don't care. I do.  I have not even tried playing my guitar thru an IPOD.  Thats my point -- you can call it a crusade -- but my point is that STANDARDS have GONE DOWN and that people should care about FIDELITY AS MUCH AS CONTENT (this is my personal opinion).   

[firemodel55]

I think it is possible for 'great gear' to 'rarely get out of tune after the initial set-up' if after it gets set-up, it never gets played but only gets talked about. 

Oh it gets played and NEVER GETS SOLD!  (Nagyayabang na it gets played pero within the year nasa CLASSIFIEDS na.  At least ako; I get to keep it kasi its an exceptional guitar. Better to talk about great sounding gear than bad sounding ones kasi nagmumukhang bingi ang bumili.)

[IncX]

Firemodel:

oh no, i wasnt the first to mention money here.

i was the first to mention "guitar nerd" .... and you mentioned "paying your gate fee" on post #20.

baka inisip mo yung "its not about the money money money" ... errr, it's a song that was famous awhile back. i am hoping you know the title of that song at least.

[IncX]

I have NOT yet bashed IncX's bass tones, have I?  In fact, I praised the tones of the Blue Ratts.  But other than their tones, its their total performance that really is top notch and they make sure that their guitars don't sound painful.

its ok. you can bash my guitar tone (and playing )here:

just dont bash my facial expression cause i did not know those downstrokes were that exhausting lol

[Skybox]

Oh it gets played and NEVER GETS SOLD!  (Nagyayabang na it gets played pero within the year nasa CLASSIFIEDS na.  At least ako; I get to keep it kasi its an exceptional guitar. Better to talk about great sounding gear than bad sounding ones kasi nagmumukhang bingi ang bumili.)

All I know is I just can't stop listening to your songs because your tone is just awesome! 

[firemodel55]

its ok. you can bash my guitar tone (and playing )here:

just dont bash my facial expression cause i did not know those downstrokes were that exhausting lol

I would rather NOT say anything...

[firemodel55]

All I know is I just can't stop listening to your songs because your tone is just awesome! 

Same here... though your tone is kind of bad.

[IncX]

I would rather NOT say anything...

awww, see? i know you are capable of restraint

[Skybox]

Same here... though your tone is kind of bad.

Hey, thanks! I appreciate that coming from you. 

Congrats on the new album btw. Love your signature bends! And the meow.. oh the meow of your guitars.. 

[IncX]

Hey, thanks! I appreciate that coming from you. 

Congrats on the new album btw. Love your signature bends! And the meow.. oh the meow of your guitars.. 

no, don't say that. you can always say "the only reason why you think my tone sucks is because you are hearing it on youtube and mp3! it will never justify how good my tone really is!"

[fizz450_03]

I paid P100k in air fare to watch Van Halen live at Madison Square Garden.  Best show evah!

wow that's a lot 



i'm still up for decent rate mp3s (at least 160kbp and up) for everyday consumption though.

[glassjaw_jc]

What's happening here is analysis paralysis. Sabi nga di ba, just shut up and play your guitar.

I don't think anyone will deliberately want his tone to sound crap. Everybody is trying their best to sound as good as possible given the limitations of the situation. Everybody is trying everything they can to get the best gear they can afford. Not everyone can afford to go abroad just to watch a concert or try out gear. Not everyone can afford to call experts abroad just to hear their opinion about possible gear acquisition.

Those gear, tone, technique experts, if you really want to help raise the bar, watch gigs. Approach the band nicely and provide constructive criticism.

[rolexm]

What if your purpose is for recording? 

[MrGobots]

Did you get to play MY Gil Yaron?  and thru my Amps?  I bet you didn't.  There is only one occassion wherein the Gil Yaron has been out for public use and that was during the Turi's Gear Show without my gear and without ME explaining and demoing to people why its a great guitar.  Given that limitation, that shows that you can NOT hear what I hear in instruments which is fine because its not easy.

For the record, other persons have made choices for me in my gear purchases -- other people I respect who know what Great Tone is.

At least I am happy now that nobody does purchase gear based ONLY on MP3s.  So...... STOP LISTENING to mp3s.   

nope. i did not get to play the yaron, but i got to hear it played by a decent player through what sounded like a decent amp... I was an arm's length away. it sounded pretty well tone-wise, just not what I was expecting. so you mean for me to appreciate the alleged great tone of that guitar you need to pass it through your amps and you need to be there to explain it? i thought if it were as great as you made it out to be then I would have been floored on the first note, like many other guitars I've tried and heard. But again, whats great to you can sound not so great to others but if you loved that tone so much then I can respect that, its just not enough to get me to want one.

See, I know what I want. I don't need experts to tell me what sound I'd like to hear. Its hard having people make those choices for you.  People end up validating those choices against other peoples choices just so they can justify the trust they invested. You can end up loosely satisfied.

There's more to music than just fidelity... I won't throw away my terrabytes of audio clips just yet. You'd have a better time appreciating life's pleasures by keeping things simple. By looking too much at the flaws of the common and questing for the finer rarities, you miss enjoying the other things guitars and guitar playing brings.

[johnvaron]

I would rather NOT say anything...

you should really do this more often