Author Topic: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread (Read 247443 times)

rakrakan · « **Reply #250 on:** January 29, 2009, 06:34:27 PM »

Quote from: alien_inside on January 29, 2009, 08:30:09 AM

8 pcs per pack: 1200mm x 600mm x 50mm; 50kg/ Cubic meter

napakamura: P1520 per pack, or P190 per pc. its CSR Rockwool

dude, RIGID rockwool ito? thanks for the info.

alien_inside · « **Reply #251 on:** January 29, 2009, 08:51:16 PM »

Quote from: rakrakan on January 29, 2009, 06:34:27 PM

dude, RIGID rockwool ito? thanks for the info.

go to: www.csr-in-asia.com for info. 771 0650 look for gina hynson.... or any branch near you

edited: dito sa pinas.... states? no idea... uwi ka na lang sir...

botbenz · « **Reply #252 on:** February 23, 2009, 05:24:53 PM »

@mikep: sir, i just started light steel framing, DIY. the bottom tracks are fastened to my "floating floor" using expansion bolts. i do not want to fasten the top tracks to the ceiling so as not to short-circuit the framing.

my question: in the absence (i can only seem to find them in the u.s. and they are not cheap) of industrial sway braces (like those made by mason industries), what sort of DIY sway brace would you recommend?

thank you. let's get this thread humming again!

mikep · « **Reply #253 on:** February 25, 2009, 12:40:17 AM »

You have to design and have them manufactured. Swat braces and acoustic hangers are not available locally. I have mine done by my people. Good luck.

peeves24 · « **Reply #254 on:** March 02, 2009, 11:21:28 AM »

im still doing the treatments for the first reflections. eto yung ilalagay ko sa side:

tapos na sya kaya lang nakalimutan ko kunan ng pic yung finished product. wrapped in katsa tulad din nung first 2 traps na ginawa ko. i had a lot of leftover aluminum window screen so i decided to use them as back support for the rockwool.

the ceiling treatment is still a work in progress.

bumili na rin ako ng staple gun -- ANG SARAP GAMITIN hehehe saved me a lot of time and effort.

tranquildomain · « **Reply #255 on:** March 16, 2009, 11:02:36 PM »

This thread gave me a lot of thinking now. Timing siya sa paglipat namin ng bagong house, I'll try to post soon pictures and draft/sketches of my planned drum recording room as well with measurements and materials used in the room.

Thanks to sir mikep, botbenz and the rest for giving us DIY newbies ideas on how to treat/ perceive sound proofing! (back to research muna!)

botbenz · « **Reply #256 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:06:55 AM »

and thanks, tranquildomain, for researching. we love helping those who help themselves!

speaking of which, while i was researching hvac, i stumbled upon a forum, http://www.hvacphilippines.com/forum/, which is pretty much self-explanatory! they've been helpful so far.

mikep · « **Reply #257 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:59:15 PM »

construct a transfer duct. put the intake near the split type air con grille. line the duct with glass fiber inside and out. have at least 3 bends - one from ceiling going to your recording room, bend one more, then, bend going out of the ceiling of your recording booth. use a 12 x 12 inches duct. cold air will just transfer freely to the recording room. meantime, build another transfer duct, a little bit smaller than your supply. line the duct with glass fiber, use a dense one - 48 kgm, 1 inch. put that transfer duct from your recording room out to the corridor or somewhere out of booth the control room or recording booth. do the bends also. that is suppose to suck out the hot air from your recording booth. aircon problem solved. if need be, place fan to suck out hot air in the transfer duct. place it as far as you ca - end of duct. two to three people will be comfortable in the booth as well as you'll have a quiet air con ducting system.

good luck.

botbenz · « **Reply #258 on:** March 24, 2009, 06:01:06 PM »

thanks, mikep! you seem to have read my thread/posts in the hvac forum because your post answered most of my questions! yes, i plan on heeding your advice.

your suggestion though (to terminate the "exhaust" duct from the recording booth into a "dummy space" that is neither the control or recording booths) is interesting. i thought of terminating it by the intake of the split-type a/c. but your suggestion will definitely be quieter!

@tranquildomain: we're mostly newbies here, including me and peeves24. we're all learning from one another other, but none moreso than from master mikep!

pizarro84 · « **Reply #259 on:** March 24, 2009, 11:36:44 PM »

Good day mga sir, need help lang po kasi we are planing to "aquarium" our church drumset to further control the volume (our 1/2" acrylic panels barely worked). Our plan is to build a wood frame with plywood external walls and gypsum board internal walls (same for the door) and ceiling, the existing acrylic panels will serve as windows, then lalagyan po namin ng exhaust fan.

Ok po ba itong plan na ito or will this adversely affect the acoustics of our drums (naka full mic setup po yung drums namin)? by the way may manipis na layer po ng uratex foam (3/4") sa likod yung drumset namin so ma-enclose din po yun sa aquarium.

Eto rin po yung estimated size nung aquarium: 8'x10'x10' (LWH)

thanks po!

mikep · « **Reply #260 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:48:49 AM »

Acrylic drum cages never really worked. The only purpose really is "para mabingi ang drummer, hindi niya masyadong paluin ang drums." If you want to build an isolated drum booth, build 4 walls and a celing with high STC ratings and at the same time absorb a lot of the energy from the drum set. How? Put a lot of absorptive material like 2 and 4 inch thick 48 kgm glass fiber covered with textile as acoustical finish. Also, there should be some sort of a ceiling as well as a door to trap all the sound energy inside the drum cage. Combine absorptive as well as diffusive elements. Helmholtz resonators should be used also to take care of the LF - normally placed towards the back of the drum kit; back of drummer - to make the LF attack sound tight. Control as much 125 hz and lower freq as you can. That will make your kick sound solid. Use the mics and the eqs of your mixer for the final sound. The drum cage will still have a substantial leakage but a least it will not be as loud and you can control everything from your mix position.

Good luck.

botbenz · « **Reply #261 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:34:45 AM »

since mikep already gave you pretty much all that you need to know to build a drum cage, i'll take a different tack: use electronic drums.

yeah, i know: building a drum cage would be cheaper, and there's nothing like a real kit. but we all know who the real church superstar is, right? so no need to upstage him.

besides, the better e-drums have a remarkably good feel. then again, buying one will require that you pass the collection basket more often.

building a cage in a church is not the studio nut's idea of "room within a room".

and a church cage is only necessary because sinners are not forgiving.

pizarro84 · « **Reply #262 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:02:52 PM »

Quote from: mikep on March 25, 2009, 12:48:49 AM

Acrylic drum cages never really worked. The only purpose really is "para mabingi ang drummer, hindi niya masyadong paluin ang drums." If you want to build an isolated drum booth, build 4 walls and a celing with high STC ratings and at the same time absorb a lot of the energy from the drum set. How? Put a lot of absorptive material like 2 and 4 inch thick 48 kgm glass fiber covered with textile as acoustical finish. Also, there should be some sort of a ceiling as well as a door to trap all the sound energy inside the drum cage. Combine absorptive as well as diffusive elements. Helmholtz resonators should be used also to take care of the LF - normally placed towards the back of the drum kit; back of drummer - to make the LF attack sound tight. Control as much 125 hz and lower freq as you can. That will make your kick sound solid. Use the mics and the eqs of your mixer for the final sound. The drum cage will still have a substantial leakage but a least it will not be as loud and you can control everything from your mix position.

Good luck.

Haha I remember sir you quoting that same line in a seminar kaya po we decided to aquarium our drums na kasi pag yung PA owner na drummer namin ang pumapalo walang effect

anyway thank you very much for your insights and recommendations sir mike, we'll include them in our plans for the drum cage.

Quote from: botbenz on March 25, 2009, 01:34:45 AM

since mikep already gave you pretty much all that you need to know to build a drum cage, i'll take a different tack: use electronic drums.

yeah, i know: building a drum cage would be cheaper, and there's nothing like a real kit. but we all know who the real church superstar is, right? so no need to upstage him.

besides, the better e-drums have a remarkably good feel. then again, buying one will require that you pass the collection basket more often.

building a cage in a church is not the studio nut's idea of "room within a room".
and a church cage is only necessary because sinners are not forgiving.

Regarding your recommendations for e-drums, mahal po kasi ang magandang e-drums and we have a limited budget considering the location of our church (hindi po Alabang or Makati based ang church namin but rather a moderate sized church in San Pedro), and being a musician myself, as with all of the Praise and Worship members would agree, we would not settle for anything less and since maganda na po tunog nung acoustic drums namin, paparaanan na lang po namin maatenuate yung volume nung drums para total control sa PA. Salamat din sir sa recommendations.

@peeves24
thanks pala sir sa recommendations nyo as to where can I purchase rockwool.

peeves24 · « **Reply #263 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:17:13 PM »

pizarro dude no prob

by the way, electronic drums are cheaper than building a 'room'

halos magkasinglaki yung room na gagawin nyo sa room ko kaya pwede ka magbrowse back ng ilang pages dito sa thread para makita mo yung costing ko.

a decent electronic drumkit from the music source or hifi lounge go for only 20k++

with ample scrap drum parts, you can also build your own electronic drums for a little less than 5k. you only need to buy a module about 8k or less. this diy kit will feel like a real kit too.

san pedro ka lang naman, nasa munti lang ako papuntang bilibid. if you are interested in building an edrum, i can help plus i already have an unfinished setup at home. di ko na lang tinapos kasi meron na ko matinong acoustic ulit. drop by if you want to check the unfinished kit and i can also demo it to you

pizarro84 · « **Reply #264 on:** March 25, 2009, 12:52:07 PM »

Quote from: peeves24 on March 25, 2009, 12:17:13 PM

pizarro dude no prob

by the way, electronic drums are cheaper than building a 'room'

halos magkasinglaki yung room na gagawin nyo sa room ko kaya pwede ka magbrowse back ng ilang pages dito sa thread para makita mo yung costing ko.

a decent electronic drumkit from the music source or hifi lounge go for only 20k++

with ample scrap drum parts, you can also build your own electronic drums for a little less than 5k. you only need to buy a module about 8k or less. this diy kit will feel like a real kit too.

san pedro ka lang naman, nasa munti lang ako papuntang bilibid. if you are interested in building an edrum, i can help plus i already have an unfinished setup at home. di ko na lang tinapos kasi meron na ko matinong acoustic ulit. drop by if you want to check the unfinished kit and i can also demo it to you

Pero sir peeves nakarinig na kasi ako ng magandang e-drum (yung sa church sa alabang, south city) talagang synthetic po kasi ang tunog parrang iisa ang timbre ng bawat palo t maliit ang dynamic range (di ko pa siya nakikita alam kong synthetic na). Sa band po kasi namin isa sa important aspects ng music is yung dynamics, wala po kasi kaming problem sa solemn songs pero yun nga lang pag malakas na ang tugtugan di na makontrol

masarap naman po pumalo ang mga drummer namin at mahuhusay gumamit ng acoustic drums pero yun nga lang po iba iba kasi ang style nila sa pag palo so pag yung malakas pumalo na ang nakasalang nao-overpower ng reflections nung drums yung PA (plywood po kasi yung roof ng drum side). Anyway di naman po namin plan i-isolate totally yung sound na wala nang maririnig, yung ma-lessen lang yung volume to about an eighth of the current volume. actually ang budget po namin para dito is 4-5K lang so I was thinking some gypsum boards and rockwool dun sa mismong cage. Pero anyway tingnan ko rin sir yung costing nyo..

I was also thinking baka pwede rin naman po namin ma-reach yung goal namin na attenuation ng walang cage, but rather lagyan ng D.I.Y. absorption pannels sa reflective surfaces, tutal mataas naman po yung acrylic pannels namin at mejo makapal, 5' high and 1/2" thick, so dalawa po yun covering 100% yung front nung drumset, tapos nasa corner po ng wall yung drums tapos may uratex foam sa likod. Kung palitan po namin ng rockwool yung likod and side wall ng drums, and lagyan po namin yung adjacent wooden wall sa rear wall and yung ceiling, gagana po ba yun? or do I need to put other materials sa specific locations? Ang naiisip ko lang po kasi na available at affordable acoustic materials na pwede namin magamit is rockwool and gypsum board..

peeves24 · « **Reply #265 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:34:50 PM »

walang effect yun kasi technically nasa open space pa rin yung drums mo

im assuming na walang mics yung current setup nyo. kapag isolated ng todo yung drummer, gagastos ka rin sa micing ng drums kasi sobrang pangit naman ng acoustic sound mo. kawawa din yung drummer kasi mahihirapan sya kung walang monitors. kaya mag iinvest ka rin ng headphone amp setup or powered speakers para lang sa drummer.

the mics and the wires alone will cost more than a diy edrum kit hehehe

haaay daming compromise talaga. give up na rin ako sa affordable solutions sa drum sound control. mukang wala ata talagang affordable sa mundong ito pagdating sa acoustics

pizarro84 · « **Reply #266 on:** March 25, 2009, 04:43:56 PM »

Quote from: peeves24 on March 25, 2009, 01:34:50 PM

walang effect yun kasi technically nasa open space pa rin yung drums mo

im assuming na walang mics yung current setup nyo. kapag isolated ng todo yung drummer, gagastos ka rin sa micing ng drums kasi sobrang pangit naman ng acoustic sound mo. kawawa din yung drummer kasi mahihirapan sya kung walang monitors. kaya mag iinvest ka rin ng headphone amp setup or powered speakers para lang sa drummer.

the mics and the wires alone will cost more than a diy edrum kit hehehe

haaay daming compromise talaga. give up na rin ako sa affordable solutions sa drum sound control. mukang wala ata talagang affordable sa mundong ito pagdating sa acoustics

Ah ganun ba sir? Kelangan pala talaga i-isolate. Anyway naka full mic setup na kasi kami as of now at lately naka headphone monitors na yung mga drummer namin. Anyway salamat sa mga payo sir mukhang talagang kelangan namin gumawa ng drum room.

botbenz · « **Reply #267 on:** March 25, 2009, 06:46:50 PM »

my steel framing is nearly done, all DIY. now, i am at the point of no return; torn between having one 25 sqm "listening room" or splitting it into two (one 15sqm control room, and one 10sqm iso room).

and then, if i go with a two room set-up, i am torn between doing double walls and double sliding doors, or one shared wall on staggered studs and one sliding door. double walls are better isolated, but cost more and eat up precious real estate.

decisions, decisions.

anybody here know of a supplier of sliding doors that are suited for studios (i.e., adequately gasketed, gaps minimized)? i would've preferred a window and door combo for better isolation, but they also make the rooms appear smaller. darn these trade-offs.

peeves24 · « **Reply #268 on:** March 25, 2009, 08:22:00 PM »

pics

botbenz · « **Reply #269 on:** March 26, 2009, 01:27:07 AM »

@peeves: i'll try to finish the ceiling framing during holy week, then upload pics. besides, how i lay out the furring channels depends on my decision to go with either one or two rooms. i have flip-flopped more times than my crocs.

peeves24 · « **Reply #270 on:** March 26, 2009, 03:33:49 PM »

i asked around about those sliding doors too. blanko lahat ng muka ng mga nakausap ko na glass/aluminum shops hehehe

ano ginamit mo na sway brace sa ceiling joist?

mikep · « **Reply #271 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:21:07 PM »

Quote from: peeves24 on March 26, 2009, 03:33:49 PM

i asked around about those sliding doors too. blanko lahat ng muka ng mga nakausap ko na glass/aluminum shops hehehe

You need a pair of sliding doors - with at least 16 inches of air space as soundlock. Then, the sliding door system as an isolating wall will work. Otherwise, it will be waste of money even if you have things like mohair, weather stripping anf thick glass (at least 3/8") in it.

FWIW

botbenz · « **Reply #272 on:** March 26, 2009, 05:15:31 PM »

@peeves: sway braces are usually for walls. for ceilings, they use hangers.

afaik, neoprene or spring sway braces and hangers are not available in the philippines. and even if you can find them, they'd probably expensive for the average DIYer. so what i did, taking a page from mikep, is i made my own sway braces and hangers. i'll post pictures this weekend. stay tuned!

peeves24 · « **Reply #273 on:** March 27, 2009, 08:20:48 AM »

yep interested ako dun sa diy version mo

botbenz · « **Reply #274 on:** March 29, 2009, 07:07:38 PM »

below are photos of two accessories used for sound/noise/vibration isolation.

the object on the right is what is called ISOMax wall clips. they are used to clip resilient channels. check out http://www.kineticsnoise.com/arch/isomax/index.aspx for more details.

one alternative i found is shown on the left in the above photo, which is one of four aircon support "legs" made by perfect view (the same makers of wall mounts for speakers, display panels, etc.) four of these are designed to support a split-type aircon condenser. the inch-thick rubber (or maybe neoprene) block is supposed to dampen the a/c condenser's vibration from the floor. i plan to use some of these as suspended hangers, to support ceiling carrying channels and furrings. the challenge is in finding them. i must've gone to at least half a dozen stores (ace, true value, handyman, etc.) and only found two sets of these (eight pieces). each set costs P600+.

due to constraints in image uploads, i will have several posts regarding my DIY sway braces.

News:

Author Topic: DIY Acoustics and Soundproofing Thread (Read 247443 times)