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Author Topic: Bending Church Rules  (Read 2929 times)

Offline crouchdash

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Bending Church Rules
« on: December 02, 2014, 02:59:08 PM »
Not a flame bait topic. (just to make it clear.)

I grew up with old school christian church P&W team rules and I think some of them are still being applied in some churches. Kagaya ng dressing up kapag togs ka. Di pwede yung jeans, tshirt, rubber shoes, kailngan atleast semi-formal if not formal. Sa church namin it started that way and then at one time, the youth musicians challenged the rule saying God does not look at the outward appearance but the heart. Sa madaling sabi the rule got bent. 

We have 2 services a really early morning and an afternoon service, napansin ko na laging hindi kumpleto yung musicians pag first service, di kasi nagigising yung ibang musicians, so I challenged the rule fo rehearsal, sabi ko since I'm a seasoned musician and practice every line up they post in FB...pwede bang togs kahit di kasamang nagpraktis? It was greeted with a resounding no. :)

Anyway what do you think about some rules being bent?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 03:02:08 PM by crouchdash »


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Offline ejecruz

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2014, 03:11:57 PM »
Hmmm... iba ibang church, me iba ibang culture,me iba ibang rules, so for me personally, dapat kung ano ung napag kasunduan na rules, everybody will abide, for example, if a dress code was mandated coz it was agreed by the leaders, dapat lahat susunod di ba? lalo na yung mga bagong papasok, this will help the church itself to be organized.. yes, God will always look at our hearts but kung sa mga simpleng dress code lang eh nag-oppose ka na, e ano kaya nasa heart mo?
Joshua 1:8

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Offline iamppej

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2014, 03:14:56 PM »
Hmmm... iba ibang church, me iba ibang culture,me iba ibang rules, so for me personally, dapat kung ano ung napag kasunduan na rules, everybody will abide, for example, if a dress code was mandated coz it was agreed by the leaders, dapat lahat susunod di ba? lalo na yung mga bagong papasok, this will help the church itself to be organized.. yes, God will always look at our hearts but kung sa mga simpleng dress code lang eh nag-oppose ka na, e ano kaya nasa heart mo?

I agree on this... alam naman natin na pinag uusapan lahat ng bagay ee. kea nga tayo my PAW meeting para malaman at marinig ng hinaing ng iba... ^_^
If there is no music there is no life!  Just like If there is no GOD there is no LIFE!

Offline crouchdash

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 05:56:18 PM »
 I also agree with that... rules that are already in place should be followed...pero paano kung ang reason, kagaya nyang dress code eh to win more people by not being too strict (for the lack of terminologies).
If you wanna kiss the sky, better learn how to kneel..."On your knees boy!"

Offline iamppej

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2014, 09:00:30 AM »
I also agree with that... rules that are already in place should be followed...pero paano kung ang reason, kagaya nyang dress code eh to win more people by not being too strict (for the lack of terminologies).

I know that as well.. ganto pwede nyo gawin to win people... for example sa youth  nyo. dun nyo gawin ung mga sinasabi nyo.. I myself has noticeable tattoo on my right arm but I still wear the proper dress code every sunday.. un nga lang lagging na nonotice ung tats ko.. but I don't care about it... inumpisahn naming sa youth ung my ganto ako. and then the dress code.. after wards na intindihan nila ung dress code,. kasi pinaintindi naming ng husto.. about sa di pag practice tapos tugs ka sa sunday.. its a big no no for me.. kahit ikaw pa pinaka magaling sa whole wide universe my tendency na mag kamali ka pdin. and that is a BASIC rule sa worship team. ^_^.. kahit si bass at vocals lng ang nag practice sila lng ang pwede sa paw..
If there is no music there is no life!  Just like If there is no GOD there is no LIFE!


Offline crouchdash

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2014, 01:29:44 PM »
Well the dress code in our church was junked and now the P&W team can wear anything they want. Just thankful na yung mga singers still keep the old rule. I'm just thankful din dahil mero pa ring musicians na committed kahit nga ganun yung nangyari. (-_-)
If you wanna kiss the sky, better learn how to kneel..."On your knees boy!"

Offline iamppej

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2014, 02:44:03 PM »
Well the dress code in our church was junked and now the P&W team can wear anything they want. Just thankful na yung mga singers still keep the old rule. I'm just thankful din dahil mero pa ring musicians na committed kahit nga ganun yung nangyari. (-_-)

its our own way to say thank you to God about the talent he gave... ^_^
If there is no music there is no life!  Just like If there is no GOD there is no LIFE!

Online NTM

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 02:54:20 PM »
I also grew up in a church na medyo old school o traditional. Like what you've said, formal dapat mga music team. Nasa college ako nung nagstart ako sumali, so kailangan ko magabide talaga sa authority. Pero lahat nadadaan sa usapan, so pinagusapan din namin yun after several years. Pinahawak nila sa akin yung team. Then nagpaalam ako sa mga pastors sa mga damit na pwede namin isuot. Sa morning ok lang kahit naka jeans na, tshirt etc. At pagdating sa youth, we can wear caps, sando, shorts, hahaha medyo awkward sa iba pero malakas hatak nya sa youth. So I think depende talaga sa congregation nyo.

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Offline iamppej

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2014, 09:34:32 AM »
I also grew up in a church na medyo old school o traditional. Like what you've said, formal dapat mga music team. Nasa college ako nung nagstart ako sumali, so kailangan ko magabide talaga sa authority. Pero lahat nadadaan sa usapan, so pinagusapan din namin yun after several years. Pinahawak nila sa akin yung team. Then nagpaalam ako sa mga pastors sa mga damit na pwede namin isuot. Sa morning ok lang kahit naka jeans na, tshirt etc. At pagdating sa youth, we can wear caps, sando, shorts, hahaha medyo awkward sa iba pero malakas hatak nya sa youth. So I think depende talaga sa congregation nyo.

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depende and oo nga nasa congregation un.. hehehe.. pero mas mabuti kung ayos na sa lahat magiging ok.
If there is no music there is no life!  Just like If there is no GOD there is no LIFE!

Offline fretboard

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2015, 01:41:57 PM »
im no church musician, been lurking around and stumble here (well maybe because i noticed crouchdash's userhandle, he's a fellow bassist)

thoughts
1. what is the objective of the dress code?
2. what is the objective of the ministry?
3. what is the objective of the service?
4. what is the objective of the rule?
5. what is the difference between bending and breaking in terms of rules?
6. does bending the rules bring you closer to God? vice versa, does following the rule brings you closer to God? which is the ideal?
7. which is more important the ministry or the service?

imho in every event there is a particular ethics that needs attention, e.g dresscode

if you were invited in a Black Party, would you go there wearing barong? or a corporate attire? wouldn't it be pleasing if you wear your Tuxedo set and cufflinks?
you were invited because you're someone important to the hosts! wouldn't it be respectful if you abide by the dresscode? anyway you can never enter the venue if you wear otherwise.

yes you can always say to the ushers at front "oh i got the invites, the hosts're expecting me, they are not after my outward appearance but the heart" .
then the question is, what is the reflection you project? what image can your heart project? a simple dresscode that is readily indicated in the invitation that says "BLACK PARTY".

you were invited because you're someone respected by the hosts, it'll be great if you'll give back the respect by being punctual , in proper attire, sophisticated and cultured.

 
 (im not a religious person)

to be continued...
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 04:12:22 PM by fretboard »
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Offline fretboard

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2015, 01:58:59 PM »
rule
/ro͞ol/
noun
noun: rule; plural noun: rules; noun: Rules

   1. one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct within a particular activity or sphere

if the guy was compromising, it only means he does not understand.

now the question for him is HIS INTENTIONS

---> why's he there?
-para pumorma?
-makibarkada?

" God does not look at the outward appearance but the heart"  <--- this statement alone is not a statement of a humble heart yet valid.

if he's there purely to express his heart to GOD, let him be, but let him express it with the congregation, then if he wants to serve in the ministry
he needs to be mindful of his actions, and not disrespect the guidelines set before him. because once you compromise the rules, everything will fall apart eventually.


aint it BS (sorry for the term) that you were asked to be part of a privilege yet you are negotiating to go against the flow?

if i understand it correctly, prayer is not a RIGHT but a PRIVILEGE, so as worship and leading people to worship.
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Offline IncX

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2015, 04:09:36 PM »
Not a flame bait topic. (just to make it clear.)

I grew up with old school christian church P&W team rules and I think some of them are still being applied in some churches. Kagaya ng dressing up kapag togs ka. Di pwede yung jeans, tshirt, rubber shoes, kailngan atleast semi-formal if not formal. Sa church namin it started that way and then at one time, the youth musicians challenged the rule saying God does not look at the outward appearance but the heart. Sa madaling sabi the rule got bent. 

We have 2 services a really early morning and an afternoon service, napansin ko na laging hindi kumpleto yung musicians pag first service, di kasi nagigising yung ibang musicians, so I challenged the rule fo rehearsal, sabi ko since I'm a seasoned musician and practice every line up they post in FB...pwede bang togs kahit di kasamang nagpraktis? It was greeted with a resounding no. :)

Anyway what do you think about some rules being bent?

if i were to join a church, i would see it as "rules are rules. you joined them knowing they are there, so the least you can do is follow without question."

there are some exceptions, but the minute i begin having issues with the rules, is also the time i would look for a different church/group. i guess that's how most church groups get started - they do not agree with the rules of the previous one.

Offline fizz450_03

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2015, 03:45:25 AM »
i guess that's how most church groups get started - they do not agree with the rules of the previous one.

sadly the case, but i do agree with how you see it.


i'm no longer a church person, but a long time ago, for a brief period of time, i was involved with the music ministry of my parent's
religious group (not a church), and my then bestbud's church (legit church). in both cases, i dressed up well, and went along
with the rules, which to me sounded acceptable. long hair was allowed, dress in a semi formal manner, no roughed up jeans,
no colored nails, no shirts marked with blasphemous messages. play what is required of you - that meant no distortion, no fancy leads,
no sudden outbursts of fancy bass playing, no david lee roth-showmanship. i think everyone wants to focus on the singing, and the
ministry itself - a lot of them would be impressed by your sweep + tap runs, but they would want to sing and do worship first.

which is why i'm quite impressed with how the cumc used to (do they still do this? please correct me) set aside a friday night for music ministry aimed at the
youth, everyone is free to come and join in. the rules are relaxed during these times, and everyone has a good time.

i would tend to suggest that for the purposes of praise and worship, it would be best to dress up well, formally if any. it's a church,
there's worship going on, people are often deep in thought and connection, i don't think they'd take well if you wore torn jeans and your
faded Iron Maiden shirt, playing on your insanely stickered guitar with a hundred pedal rig.

save that for secular gig nights / appearances.

if i was to join a church now, and wanted to serve in ministry, i'd go with the set rules.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 03:52:39 AM by fizz450_03 »
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Offline fretboard

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2015, 07:14:03 AM »
maturity - is the ability to respond to the environment in an appropriate manner. This response is generally learned rather than instinctive. Maturity also encompasses being aware of the correct time and place to behave and knowing when to act, according to the circumstances and the culture of the society one lives in
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Offline fr0zen_12@yahoo.com

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2015, 12:06:27 AM »
I joined Philmusic mostly dahil sa classified pero nakakatuwa na may forums na ganito. maraming natutunan sa mga kapwa musikero. and regarding sa topic I've been to a church na bending ng rules ay parang isang malaking goal para sa PAW. dahil siguro mga youth kaya mas gusto ay modern though dahil sa "Bending" nagkakaron ng GAP with the congregations. that's why I drifted apart. right now im in a church which RULES ARE RULES. though sometimes medyo mahirap sumunod dahil katulad nga sa dress code, kaylangan mag invest sa formal. lalo na sa musicians minsan imbis na for your gear nawawala pa. pero sa tingin ko that's the beauty of it. kaya nga tayo nasa PAW isang privilege na tumugtog at mag serve. kaya dapat dun palang masaya na tayo. ang pagsunod sa mga rules ay di hamak na sumasalamin sa sarili natin. :)

Online chernandez1

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2015, 03:03:11 AM »
im no church musician, been lurking around and stumble here (well maybe because i noticed crouchdash's userhandle, he's a fellow bassist)

thoughts
1. what is the objective of the dress code?
2. what is the objective of the ministry?
3. what is the objective of the service?
4. what is the objective of the rule?
5. what is the difference between bending and breaking in terms of rules?
6. does bending the rules bring you closer to God? vice versa, does following the rule brings you closer to God? which is the ideal?
7. which is more important the ministry or the service?

imho in every event there is a particular ethics that needs attention, e.g dresscode

if you were invited in a Black Party, would you go there wearing barong? or a corporate attire? wouldn't it be pleasing if you wear your Tuxedo set and cufflinks?
you were invited because you're someone important to the hosts! wouldn't it be respectful if you abide by the dresscode? anyway you can never enter the venue if you wear otherwise.

yes you can always say to the ushers at front "oh i got the invites, the hosts're expecting me, they are not after my outward appearance but the heart" .
then the question is, what is the reflection you project? what image can your heart project? a simple dresscode that is readily indicated in the invitation that says "BLACK PARTY".

you were invited because you're someone respected by the hosts, it'll be great if you'll give back the respect by being punctual , in proper attire, sophisticated and cultured.

 
 (im not a religious person)

to be continued...

+1 Bro.
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Online nicoyow

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2015, 03:19:49 AM »
Not a flame bait topic. (just to make it clear.)

I grew up with old school christian church P&W team rules and I think some of them are still being applied in some churches. Kagaya ng dressing up kapag togs ka. Di pwede yung jeans, tshirt, rubber shoes, kailngan atleast semi-formal if not formal. Sa church namin it started that way and then at one time, the youth musicians challenged the rule saying God does not look at the outward appearance but the heart. Sa madaling sabi the rule got bent. 

We have 2 services a really early morning and an afternoon service, napansin ko na laging hindi kumpleto yung musicians pag first service, di kasi nagigising yung ibang musicians, so I challenged the rule fo rehearsal, sabi ko since I'm a seasoned musician and practice every line up they post in FB...pwede bang togs kahit di kasamang nagpraktis? It was greeted with a resounding no. :)

Anyway what do you think about some rules being bent?

Bending rules.
ah i remember when I was new inside the music ministry. There are some volunteers who really love to do that. Late sa practice, late sa devotions, naka slippers, hnd nag aral ng line up, etc etc.

I see them as a working progress. Hindi ko sila kino condemn dahil sa actions nila. At the end hindi naman ikaw ang hahatol sa kanila kundi ung nsa taas. So let their ways be. If they find that their ways are not glorifying to the One that we're worshipping, they'll stop eventually.

realization ang tatapos sa bending rules.
nood ng TV. usually nasa huling channels yun mga pampatayo ulit e. then, ihahanda ang sandata para sa round 2.

Offline kimpoy19

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2015, 07:35:17 PM »
Mahalaga ang lahat pero hndi lahat ay tutugma.
For example if your involve in church na karamihan ay youth, much better kung susunod ka sa level ng pananamit and music nila. But there are still limitations.

Basta ang mahalaga is the discipline like Christ did.

For me attire is not a major case, as long as disente at tumutugma sa ginagawa mo. :)
God speed guys! Take charge!
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Offline fretboard

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2015, 01:18:48 PM »

Basta ang mahalaga is the discipline like Christ did.


^
please explain. then relate it to
Quote
Mahalaga ang lahat pero hndi lahat ay tutugma.
For example if your involve in church na karamihan ay youth, much better kung susunod ka sa level ng pananamit and music nila. But there are still limitations.

« Last Edit: April 22, 2015, 01:24:54 PM by fretboard »
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Offline david_leyson

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2015, 09:25:12 PM »
Bending rules?

IMHO, it was said to submit to the authorities, because the authorities we're placed there by the Almighty.

Bending the rules given by the authorities results to such rebellion regardless if it's small or big rule. makukuha naman sa magandang usapan yan between the musicians and the leaders who gave the rule.

and one more thing, if the culture of your typical Sunday service does seem "old school" as you say, well we have no choice but to to do what the authorities say, but for the Youth Congregation, we dress like we're part of the new generation,
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Offline xJagx

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2015, 05:29:56 PM »
Oi!

Kamusta!?

Sa amin po okay naman. kung sino nag praktis sila na tutugtog. pag kulang nag praktis e di follow kung sino naka schedule. tapos agahan na lang before service, malamang naman darating na dun yung talagang tutugtog. Kung wala pa sila sa given time may papalit nang iba kung sino available dun.
Pag may aberya mag inform sa iba para may kapalit ka kaagad at makapag praktis din yung papalit sayo.
Dress code simple lang , avoid lang daw yung makaka distract na attire. Not necessarily formal, but proper.

Offline uncle_itlog

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2015, 10:29:30 AM »
It's good that this question has attracted the attention of fellow musicians who are not religious. What they have said are very practical and sensical. If you can answer the 7 questions posted by fretboard then you can somehow gauge your group's position. However, in my decades of experience in local and international church settings, I find these "musicians" to be overly pretentious and hypocrites, they are more concerned with their abilities and gear (as shown in many topics such as this) than following the commandments of God. I hope you're a part of a church that feed the hungry and visit those who are in prison, as Christ said, and not those who are just concerned with their appearance.

Offline muskratdoug

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2015, 10:36:27 AM »
I agree with ejcruz, that rules are meant to be followed to put organization in the church. Dress code is simply a code to show respect to our God we are worshiping," how will you dress  or present your self in front of your God your maker?" Sa amin hindi masyadong stricto na semi formal, pero "one should be presentable and decent"

As for "No practice, No service" This is a very good rule to follow, pero sa amin ministry we tend to bend this a bit due to lack of servants for that service. Sa singers kung hindi naman bago iyng songs, at meron work or occasion on the day and time of practice, pina payagan hindi mag practice but as long as they do their homework, usually kapag kulang iyng servants, pero sa musicians medyo stricto unless talagang very valid ang reason na hindi maka attend ng practice at walang kapalit.

We all have to remember that we are first and foremost "Servants", we are there to "Serve and Not To Be Served" so hindi tayo dapat sasama ang loob kung napag sabihan or hindi pinayagan mg serve dahil hindi tayo sumunod sa mg rules.


Online Drummeroo

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Re: Bending Church Rules
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2015, 10:45:47 PM »
I also grew up sa church na kailangan kapag aakyat ng stage to play, kailangan naka-black pants, polo, black socks and shoes. Full-gospel combo, tipong kailangan di ka mawawalan ng Bible sa bag kapag Sundays, imagine, halos 8 years ganito ang patakaran.

Dumating pa sa point na kinamuhian ko yung attire (not because of the word, ha?), one time habang naglalakad ako going to church may lumapit saking kababata sabay sabi: uy, ikaw ha, nag-Pastor kana pala, ikaw na ligtas! "sighs' sabay naisip ko, porke pormal ang suot, ganun na agad?

Then nung mapunta ako sa bago kong church, total transformation, ngayon kailangan lang is Polo, or polo shirt then decent formal pants or sneakers pwede na, basta neat and one level higher sa attendees. Dito ko rin naunawaan yung tunay na kahalagahan ng clothing when it comes to serving, it's like formality, neatness is dapat sa heart muna. Then clothing follows.

Sa una kong church, bawal humawak ng instrument agad-agad kapag wala pa ang MD.

Sa Bagong church, Linis muna bago play.  :lol:
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 10:47:57 PM by Iyan »
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