hulika

Author Topic: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier  (Read 40853 times)

Offline musicjunkie

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« on: April 10, 2010, 08:21:10 AM »
I want to share a bad experience with a local luthier. I hope everyone learns from this experience, and takes proper precautions.

See, I had my guitar brought to the luthier for refretting and replacement of some parts, including a tone capacitor. Note, this was my third time to have him refret my guitar. I had OK experiences from the previous work he did.

Two days later, luthier calls me up to say the guitar refret and replacement has been all completed. So I go to his shop to test the guitar. It played decently, the refrets were OK. He mentions the capacitor has also been replaced with the part I gave him. I asked for the original tone capacitor. He gives me some generic capacitor.  It was a red,square chicklet type capacitor. My guitar originally had a green circular one. I immediately asked him where the original capacitor was. He goes and says, he was not the one who actually removed the capacitor. It was one of his repair guys and he will check with that person.  But instead, he gives me several used capacitors from his stash (most are junk anyway).

My reaction to this initial incident was that of betrayal of trust. I trusted this reputable luthier for repair and he comes out and steals my capacitor? I know a capacitor is not a major part of the guitar. But it does contribute to the tone. I am irked because of the blatant disregard of customer trust.

Anyway, the story does not end there. Luthier goes out and asks me to send him a picture of the capacitor. Because he says there is no such thing as a green tone capacitor. I send him one over to make sure he is able to find the capacitor somewhere in his shop.  Luthier then goes back to me and says to ask me to take a picture of the brown capacitors he gave me, since different lighting might make the brown cap look green.

Wait Mr. Luthier, customer has actually seen the capacitor, sent you the picture, and you doubt that the capacitor is green? Is that nuts or what?

Anyway, I said "No" to his stupid request to take pics of the brown caps. What kind of stupid idea is that? Was this guy trying to insert doubt into my story. I had a bad feeling at this point. I saw the cap and I had pics of it.  It was Green. Damn it.

His reaction was he will try to look for a capacitor. But also asked how he can make it up to me. His exact words were "How can make you happy as a customer?" Hmm, although I had doubts, I gave him a bit of faith that he indeed wanted to make it up to me. So I sent him over a link on ebay for a good tone cap. It was a high-end cap.  But then again, if he was able to return my orig green cap, then I would be OK already. You see the orig guitar cap, based on my research was a high-end cap.  He says that it was a bit expensive. So I sent him another option - a high quality brown cap and he says he will buy that one instead. Good, I said. Give me that by next week. 

Before the week was up, I follow it up with him. Also please bear in mind, all this time, I was the one following up with him. He made no effort whatsoever to text me or update me on what was happening and how he can appease a customer he betrayed the trust of.  So I follow up, and asked him the status.
He changes his mind and says, if I lost your green capacitor, then we should look for a green one as a replacement. Good logic?! He was the one who said there is no such thing as a green cap and he wanted to replace it with anything I wanted to appease me. And then this. It seems he was changing his word all the time, to make sure he does not spend a dime for a mistake he made.

I said green/brown, whatever, as long as it is in good condition and has the correct specification then it should be fine.

So the week ends, he misses his deadline by a day, and tells me he has the replacement cap already. I go there and pick it up. He was on the phone and he hands me over a plastic bag with several green capacitors. All were used up and none had the correct specification. He hangs up the phone and I tell him this was not our deal. I return the bag to him. He tells me he has some brown capacitors with the correct specification. He goes to his shop and 10mins later comes out with 2 brown caps, with both the wrong values.

So I asked him what happened to the deal? He goes out and tells me I gave you the benefit of the doubt when you told me it was a green cap. Now, you should give me benefit of the doubt that these are the right capacitors. He was raising his voice when he said this. Awesome guy huh? I was talking in a civilized manner and he raises his voice at his customer.  You see up to this point, he was still insisting that there is No Green Cap in my guitar. But how can he say that, when he admitted that he was not the actual person who replaced it, but it was one of his repair guys.  I told him we are past that argument, and the point now was to appease the client and give him what he promised. I also think the person who raises his voice first in an argument is the defensive one and wants to dominate the conversation, because they have no argument to begin with. Realizing that this guy really had no intention of sticking to his word, and did not give a damn bout his client's trust, I said... "You just lost a customer..." and I left.

This guy really knew how to turn the tables on you, and he can make his wrongdoing, you're wrong doing. Instead of immediately trying to regain your trust. He inserts doubts into your story and makes you on the defensive side. Clever tactic, if you are easily-swayed. Guys, I suggest you take pictures of your guitars and all the parts, because you never know what happens behind closed doors of a luthier. 
 



 

Offline arkeetar

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2010, 08:32:56 AM »
bro can i know the luthier?

kay jim ako nagpapasetup ng guitar pero baka mag parefret ako at takot na may galawin sa ibang parts, instead na refret lang talaga dapat nyang gagawin, thanks in advance  :-)

yung isang guitar ko napalitan ng truss rod pero hindi binalik s'kin yung stock, ang mali ko lang hindi ko agad naisip na hingin yun, pero dapat binabalik din yun

full kasi yung inbox mo  :-)

Offline musicjunkie

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2010, 08:36:01 AM »
cleared out my inbox

Offline quaternotetriplet

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2010, 08:47:26 AM »
bro, curious lang what brand ng cap mo ba?
h

Offline fraudulentzodiac

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2010, 09:10:39 AM »
I think I know this "reputable" luthier as well, I know someone who had an ESP guitar set-up only to find out that the switch, pots and electronics have all been replaced with cheap-ass generic ones. He didn't even have some work done on the electronics of the guitar pero kinahoy pa rin yung electronics ng gitara niya. :x

masyado lang kasi marami supporter ang luthier na yun kaya mahirap magbanggit ng pangalan. :evil:


Offline arkeetar

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2010, 09:14:01 AM »
hindi ba nila maiisip na malalaman at malalaman din yung ginawa nila  :evil:

Offline darkfretlord

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2010, 09:17:13 AM »
could you pm me the luthiers name?
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones

Offline fraudulentzodiac

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2010, 09:17:40 AM »
hindi ba nila maiisip na malalaman at malalaman din yung ginawa nila  :evil:
haha oo nga bro, feeling ko nga yung mga tauhan yung mga gumagawa nun, wala naman magawa yung luthier dahil siya pa rin responsible sa tauhan niya.

medyo obvious naman na eh kung sino hehe. alam ko may nagreklamo na rin dito dati tungkol sa shimming ng neck pocket ng gitara niya.

Offline Super BisDak

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2010, 09:20:51 AM »
Guys, I suggest you take pictures of your guitars and all the parts, because you never know what happens behind closed doors of a luthier. 
Noted. thanks bro. He will reap what he sow anyway.  :x
dealt: faceless,fraudulentzodiac,verve,egbdf,Saturn/Return,bdc3,dk_ouano,gemboy,studiowan,Slingky,PLESIM,asti21,sidlead66,CIERRAE,ungas123,lippy,cocojam,jolam1431,putchazta_46,dannygatton,lynshumalmsteen,GslashG,atomo,uchihadarwin,mzik_man,Diamond_Don&etc

Offline darkfretlord

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2010, 09:21:47 AM »
may naexperience din ako noon about pickup installation, kasma kasi sa box ng dimarzio pups yung ibang screws/springs etc pero yung old pickups ko eh meron din nun. so i expected na pagbalik sakin ay may extra springs/screws na kasama ng old pups ko pero wala na. pati yung key na pang adjust ng pickup poles wala na. well hindi ko na pinansin, pero nawalang gana ako dun sa tao..

I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones

Offline aslan

  • Philmusicus Noobitus
  • *
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2010, 09:39:57 AM »
bro can you pm me the luthiers name? balak ko kasi magpa-set up ng gitara. para naman maiwasan kong magkaroon ng kaaway tulad ng ginawa sayo ng ungas na luthier na yun. Thank in advance! :-D

Offline abyssinianson

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2010, 09:43:55 AM »
why not just say who the guy is? if the guy has the gall to do this stuff to a person's face, then you should have no problem divulging the guy's name so everyone has the benefit of caution when dealing with the guy. thing is, you didn't gain anything by this horrible experience so share the caution with others. best case scenario, people will know more about him and the possibility that he might be a shady character. i do not believe in the "maninira sa pangalan" frame of mind when there is just cause backed by a detailed explanation of events. luthiery is a business and if the guy takes pride in his work, he should also be man enough to step up and protect that pride when someone questions his business ethic. this is basic business mechanics 101 and a foundation of any successful entrepreneur; customer service starts with the business person being able to stand directly behind whatever it is they are selling and it doesn't take an MBA to know this. moreover, two can play the game of hardball - if the guy gave you the run around, let other people know that he gave you the run around AND ended up being a lying sack of sh*t to boot. local business ain't ever going to improve if cases like this abound.

besides, who the hell steals capacitors? seriously.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 09:46:39 AM by abyssinianson »
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline Fret_warrior

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2010, 09:45:46 AM »
bro, baka pwede pa Pm naman kung sino ung "luthier" na yan, para ma iwasan, plan ko pa namn kasing mag pa re-fret, baka sa kanya pa ako mapunta. yari ako  :-(
Col. 2:8 ;
"Take care that no one takes you away by force, through man’s wisdom and deceit, going after the beliefs of men and the theories of the world, and not after Christ"

Offline zisnarf_miranda

  • Veteran Member
  • ****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2010, 09:48:45 AM »
bro can you pm me the luthiers name? balak ko kasi magpa-set up ng gitara. para naman maiwasan kong magkaroon ng kaaway tulad ng ginawa sayo ng ungas na luthier na yun. Thank in advance! :-D

the who ang luthier na ito...  :-D

« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 09:50:56 AM by zisnarf_miranda »

Offline cayle

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2010, 09:48:53 AM »
why not just say who the guy is? if the guy has the gall to do this stuff to a person's face, then you should have no problem divulging the guy's name so everyone has the benefit of caution when dealing with the guy. thing is, you didn't gain anything by this horrible experience so share the caution with others. best case scenario, people will know more about him and the possibility that he might be a shady character. i do not believe in the "maninira sa pangalan" frame of mind when there is just cause backed by a detailed explanation of events. luthiery is a business and if the guy takes pride in his work, he should also be man enough to step up and protect that pride when someone questions his business ethic. this is basic business mechanics 101 and a foundation of any successful entrepreneur; customer service starts with the business person being able to stand directly behind whatever it is they are selling and it doesn't take an MBA to know this. moreover, two can play the game of hardball - if the guy gave you the run around, let other people know that he gave you the run around AND ended up being a lying sack of sh*t to boot. local business ain't ever going to improve if cases like this abound.

besides, who the hell steals capacitors? seriously.

Completely agree. I say spill the name. I'm planning on taking my guitar to a luthier for refret. I've modded the hell out of my guitar and i don't want any parts to be taken out and replaced by cheap ass ones.

Offline bryanarzaga

  • Philmusicus Supremus
  • ******
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2010, 09:51:02 AM »
why not just say who the guy is? if the guy has the gall to do this stuff to a person's face, then you should have no problem divulging the guy's name so everyone has the benefit of caution when dealing with the guy. thing is, you didn't gain anything by this horrible experience so share the caution with others. best case scenario, people will know more about him and the possibility that he might be a shady character. i do not believe in the "maninira sa pangalan" frame of mind when there is just cause backed by a detailed explanation of events. luthiery is a business and if the guy takes pride in his work, he should also be man enough to step up and protect that pride when someone questions his business ethic. this is basic business mechanics 101 and a foundation of any successful entrepreneur; customer service starts with the business person being able to stand directly behind whatever it is they are selling and it doesn't take an MBA to know this. moreover, two can play the game of hardball - if the guy gave you the run around, let other people know that he gave you the run around AND ended up being a lying sack of sh*t to boot. local business ain't ever going to improve if cases like this abound.

besides, who the hell steals capacitors? seriously.


the CAP-burglar!! lol (catburglar)
@TS just state the name..also if you want green caps i can send you a bunch..i pull those out in every chinese made guitar anyway..
« Last Edit: April 10, 2010, 09:52:37 AM by bryanarzaga »

Offline ghostalker

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2010, 09:52:32 AM »
da who na 'to ...

blind item
God Bless!
Rockin' for Jesus 

Offline darkfretlord

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2010, 09:54:05 AM »
sabihin mo napo kung sino siya..
I have stated that there are more bad sounding suhrs then there are good ones

Offline abyssinianson

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2010, 09:55:42 AM »
@bryan: hindi possible yan magnakaw ng caps yung pusa kase cute eh.
ako si mimordz. 友だちからよろしくです!

Offline Van*

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2010, 09:59:46 AM »
i are luthier  :lol:
What you own, owns you.

Offline r_chino18

  • Patambay tambay na
  • Philmusicus Supremus
  • ******
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2010, 10:00:07 AM »
yes.. tamang-tama..another luthier to cross out sa options ko.. lol.. refret at custom inlay pa naman ipapagawa ko..  :lol: :lol:

Offline zisnarf_miranda

  • Veteran Member
  • ****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2010, 10:02:30 AM »
pm nyo na lang si TS sa mga nagtatanong.

@sir bryanarzaga: paambunan nyo kami ng green caps.  :-D

@cayle: bulong ko sa iyo kung sino.  :-D

Offline scofield

  • Forum Fanatic
  • ****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2010, 10:06:37 AM »
i are luthier  :lol:

hahaha si I.R. Luthier nga ba to? hehe i heard some stories about this guy too. :-D

Offline Rmansh

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2010, 10:08:04 AM »
post the name here bro,

we also need to hear what he has to say. (baka naman color blind sya hehehe)
looking for badass guitars and amps.....

Offline badbach66

  • Senior Member
  • ***
Re: Bad Experience with a Local Luthier
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2010, 10:11:30 AM »
why not just say who the guy is? if the guy has the gall to do this stuff to a person's face, then you should have no problem divulging the guy's name so everyone has the benefit of caution when dealing with the guy. thing is, you didn't gain anything by this horrible experience so share the caution with others. best case scenario, people will know more about him and the possibility that he might be a shady character. i do not believe in the "maninira sa pangalan" frame of mind when there is just cause backed by a detailed explanation of events. luthiery is a business and if the guy takes pride in his work, he should also be man enough to step up and protect that pride when someone questions his business ethic. this is basic business mechanics 101 and a foundation of any successful entrepreneur; customer service starts with the business person being able to stand directly behind whatever it is they are selling and it doesn't take an MBA to know this. moreover, two can play the game of hardball - if the guy gave you the run around, let other people know that he gave you the run around AND ended up being a lying sack of sh*t to boot. local business ain't ever going to improve if cases like this abound.

besides, who the hell steals capacitors? seriously.

I agree. Hindi pinupulot ang pera sa kalsada.
References: masterchoxter, turigiliano, Gibson78, akellefusion, jetleebog, Drew_Asuncion, jonathan_dead, chester_uy, pao2pao16, obetski, deadlifted, 2joeross, Iommifan, chromeknive, etc...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=361241