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Author Topic: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?  (Read 52632 times)

Offline firemodel55

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #25 on: August 07, 2007, 05:49:07 AM »
Progressive Philippines,

I understand your point and thats why believe someone knowledgeable in tone should be considered more authoratative than some stranger and thats why you should listen again.  However, the danger of not realizing that your tone is bad is that there might be something wrong with your standard.  As an extreme example, if you grew up on Lumanog guitars and it was fine with you.  Then someone comes along and says that it sounds bad because he uses Martin.  You go back and say, "It still sounds good to me" but not knowing what a Martin sounds like.  You now shut yourself to the possibility of using a Martin.

In my case, I discovered tone because people have put me and my gear down.  As I narrated in previous posts, the first time that I was in this similar situation was when my worst sounding guitar a Floral White Ibanez JEM VWH with vine inlays was beat by Arie's strat.  Point by point Arie showed me what was wrong with it.  From wood warp to actual problems with the sound to response, to playability and to character.   It was clearly a badly made instrument that did not sound good. I felt let down by Steve Vai.  That day was the day that I started to learn what a good sounding guitar should be. 

Offline PRSMan

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #26 on: August 07, 2007, 06:02:53 AM »
Alex

I don't get where the heartache is coming from:

--  You're a businessman right?  So you know that the endorsement game is for the most part all about money and not so much about "man I really dig this product".  So you can't possibly be shocked about this "lack of integrity" displayed by some players.

--  You're also one smart cat who knows a lot of stuff about gear.  So you can't possibly have been duped into buying something just because Pepe and Pilar both use it.  You of all people probably do tons of research before pulling the trigger on anything.

So, what's really bugging you about this whole endorsement thing?

BTW -- how's #55 doing?

Offline progressive_pilipinas

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2007, 06:14:47 AM »
alex,

thanks for the new nick.  :lol:

Yes i see where you are coming from. I for one, started on a cheap lumanog guitar. I thought its sustain was great and that its tone was wonderful. But when i was able to try out a yamaha acoustic guitar(the one that nyoy volante had used )i realised that my guitar sucked! and that was only one better guitar ive tried.

I just thought, what about guitarists who doesnt have any option of trying out something else and then we go "hey your tone sucks." hehe. It would sound very much insulting. If i would say that id offer that person an option to try something, like, "hey would you like to try my guitar Im sure youd sound better on this."

anyway, OT na. hehe

Steve plays good guitar, he's made a name, his got good gear. Whatever happens i cant say that his tone sucks.  :-D
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Offline pings15

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2007, 06:15:23 AM »
Alex

I don't get where the heartache is coming from:

--  You're a businessman right?  So you know that the endorsement game is for the most part all about money and not so much about "man I really dig this product".  So you can't possibly be shocked about this "lack of integrity" displayed by some players.

--  You're also one smart cat who knows a lot of stuff about gear.  So you can't possibly have been duped into buying something just because Pepe and Pilar both use it.  You of all people probably do tons of research before pulling the trigger on anything.

So, what's really bugging you about this whole endorsement thing?

BTW -- how's #55 doing?

this thing is all psychological..

Just like the Nike Air Jordan, even though we cant play like him if we wear those shoes we feel that now i am one step closer to becoming Jordan...

and artists endorse because of th money and the benefits it can give to you.. i bet dave mustaine made a     big adjustmnt when he got to dean guitars, theres nothing he could do about it its pays a lot better..
OH MAN! OH GOD!
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Offline nathanmanansala

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2007, 06:59:42 AM »
In my case, I discovered tone because people have put me and my gear down.  As I narrated in previous posts, the first time that I was in this similar situation was when my worst sounding guitar a Floral White Ibanez JEM VWH with vine inlays was beat by Arie's strat.  Point by point Arie showed me what was wrong with it.  From wood warp to actual problems with the sound to response, to playability and to character.   It was clearly a badly made instrument that did not sound good. I felt let down by Steve Vai.  That day was the day that I started to learn what a good sounding guitar should be. 
comparing a JEM to a strat. no contest. a strat will always win to my ears. and they'd both lose to a tele. :D

Lets hear it for Les Paul then. the only player who's signature series was so good, other pickers actually base their signature series on it and still keep his name on the moniker. "<Artist's name> Signature Model Les Paul." thats like saying "the i-couldn't-think-of-a-design-i-like-better-so-i'll-just-use-Les-Paul's-and-add-my-name-to-it signature model guitar." kids today look at his signature model and dont realize Les Paul is actually a person's name, not a french title meaning "The Paul."

still... its not as good as a tele... :lol:


Offline PRSMan

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2007, 07:03:26 AM »
Alex

I don't get where the heartache is coming from:

--  You're a businessman right?  So you know that the endorsement game is for the most part all about money and not so much about "man I really dig this product".  So you can't possibly be shocked about this "lack of integrity" displayed by some players.

--  You're also one smart cat who knows a lot of stuff about gear.  So you can't possibly have been duped into buying something just because Pepe and Pilar both use it.  You of all people probably do tons of research before pulling the trigger on anything.

So, what's really bugging you about this whole endorsement thing?

BTW -- how's #55 doing?

this thing is all psychological..

Just like the Nike Air Jordan, even though we cant play like him if we wear those shoes we feel that now i am one step closer to becoming Jordan...

and artists endorse because of th money and the benefits it can give to you.. i bet dave mustaine made a     big adjustmnt when he got to dean guitars, theres nothing he could do about it its pays a lot better..


huh?  i don't get what your reply has to do with my question to alex

Offline BlackDiamond

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2007, 07:06:58 AM »
I remember my classmate when i was 15 yrs old...

He's only using a Hot Cabs amp and an RJ guitar but he plays Vai, Satch, Kotzen and Malmsteen that time.

and me?! I'm using a Marshall valvestate 8080 and a korean floyd rose equipped guitar, was so picky about the gear that my teenage @ss can get but all I can play back then are riffs from Metallica and other thrash metal bands! I asked myself, how comes he plays so good and definitely sounds better than me despite of the gears that he's using.

Moral of the story...

Enough of the gears... More on the playing first! A lot of guitar players forget that your playing can either make or break your tone!

Imagine this... You saw a guy onstage using Van Halen's Frankenstrat replica with a Peavey 5150 but he can not play a simple solo to save his life and his tone sucks despite his gear! heheheh  :-D

« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 10:33:15 AM by BlackDiamond »
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Offline Lofi

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2007, 07:18:56 AM »
Its this simple, for a make or brake important gig in your life, would you rather use a sentimental guitar or a killer sounding one?

ok let's put it this way. sa EBs na lang or sa mga Tone Parties. If i would bring my guitar that I've been using for years and compare it to someone else's killer sounding guitar. someone may say that my guitar doesn't stand up to the other. but should i care? personally i don't. acceptance is a time consuming process.



true

Offline Phil

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2007, 08:06:18 AM »
....And the funny thing about Vai was he was trying to point out jokingly that his favorite piece of gear was his electric fan because he looked cool and he said aint that what it is all about?
...  that is sooooo rockstar.... what do you expect.  :-D
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Offline deltaslim

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2007, 08:18:22 AM »
Wow- Alex is back!  LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

Because their last priority is sound!!!


Hard to say.  If you'd said their first priority was money, I'd agree with you.  But I would think that an endorser-- or any endorser for that matter, whether toothpaste or medicine pa yan--wouldn't put his name on the line if he/she knew the product had some merits.  He/she would certainly avoid endorsing products that could potentially harm the buyer/public. That could damage his reputation and credibility and affect his marketability, which would prevent him from getting future endorsements, etc...

Offline Phil

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2007, 08:22:14 AM »
Wow- Alex is back!  LET THE GAMES BEGIN!

Because their last priority is sound!!!


Hard to say.  If you'd said their first priority was money, I'd agree with you.  But I would think that an endorser-- or any endorser for that matter, whether toothpaste or medicine pa yan--wouldn't put his name on the line if he/she knew the product had some merits.  He/she would certainly avoid endorsing products that could potentially harm the buyer/public. That could damage his reputation and credibility and affect his marketability, which would prevent him from getting future endorsements, etc...
100% agree .... I have the Vai amp .... and the amp's tone does have Vai's sound. So Vai made sure that it works for him too and he's been using it.... listen to latest album.
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Offline deltaslim

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2007, 08:34:41 AM »
....And the funny thing about Vai was he was trying to point out jokingly that his favorite piece of gear was his electric fan because he looked cool and he said aint that what it is all about?
...  that is sooooo rockstar.... what do you expect.  :-D

HAHAHA!! this is why i love Vai.  with him guitar is fun and he never forgets what it's all about! 

i wish we learn a thing or two from Vai's attitude; we'd have less tonal OC-ness, GAS, and flame wars here but have more fun!

Offline oloc

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2007, 09:22:14 AM »


Wow- Alex is back!  LET THE GAMES BEGIN!


what?... just like that? no welcome party? no group hug?  :-D

a round of virtual beer on me!  [smilie=rlp_smilie_242.gif]

welcome back oas... about time you add some more excitement here.  :-)

(back to topic)

About artists endorsing Major brands, i agree that its primarily for the money... BUT like of all us, they have ears too. just because you dont like what they endorse doesnt mean they dont mean what they say when they refer to their signature series as great sounding gear. What's best for them might not be best for you and vice versa... That's why Vai has evo, You got the #55 and sir nathan got his Tele.  :-)

"my music is complicated, but the way i like to do things is not" - Steve Vai on Carvin interview.

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Offline Poundcake

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2007, 10:45:14 AM »
Welcome back, Alex! Thanks for coming back :)

As much as I am an EVH fan, I agree that he's not very credible when it comes to endorsements. I've heard too many "This is the best (the gear he's endorsing) I've ever used in my life!" declarations from him. Well, it's helping him get $30M a year so saying such stuff is a no-brainer for him. He's got nothing else to prove to anyone anyway.
"The LORD will save me, and we will play my music on stringed instruments all the days of our lives, at the house of the LORD." Isaiah 38:20

Offline jun_gats

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2007, 10:47:58 AM »
:mrgreen: if it doesn't suite your needs don't buy it.

Offline GGBR

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2007, 11:10:46 AM »
Because their last priority is sound!!!

..........Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end  manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone.  Artist agenda is not so clear.  They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone.  Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.

And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...


NO ONE TO BLAME!---

THE FIRST QUESTION YOU NEED TO ASK YOURSELF IS -
       1) DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE BEST PRODUCT?
             WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF THE BEST?
OR
       2) DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE BEST-MARKETED PRODUCT?

IT IS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT THE MAKERS OF THE BEST-MARKETED RRODUCTS KNOW YOUR REASON TO BUY AND THAT MOST OFTEN IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF QUALITY(SOUND)!! [QUESTION --- DOES KRIS AQUINO MAKE PEOPLE BUY?? OR DOES AGA MULAK OR DOES ROBIN PADILLA]

COMPANIES ARE DEFINED AS FOLLOWS:

   1) PRODUCT-DRIVEN
   2) MARKET-DRIVEN
   3) TECHNOLOGY-DRIVEN
   4) MANUFACTURING (PRODUCTION)-DRIVEN

GUESS WHERE YOUR FAVORITE AMP MAKERS FALL UNDER? 
corollary: WHERE DO THE BEST-MADE/SOUNDING AMPS FALL UNDER?

LAST QUESTION: HOW DO YOU BUY???

Offline vaisteen2003

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2007, 11:15:49 AM »
We all know its a marketing thing. Same rason why we have actors and actresses endorsing noodles and panty liners but that doesnt mean they eat panty liners and wear noodles of those brands all the time. Back to guitar, as far as endorsemnt goes IMHO only PG is brave enough and credible enough to say "use the PGM 301, its the closest thing to the one i use" hes stand by his word so much that everytim he do a clinic he can just get if off the shelves and wank with it. Now thats an endorsement.
GAS Free 2007
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Offline inigo

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2007, 11:21:00 AM »
The first post is a nice read. Refreshing in a forum full of ups and up-for-yous.

Good point you have there. Paid endorsements from artists are not credible sources of how gear is good, since these only reinforce a brand, not the actual product. A conviction on good piece of gear based on belief in an endorsement is but a shallow one.
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Offline inigo

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2007, 11:22:33 AM »
Back to guitar, as far as endorsemnt goes IMHO only PG is brave enough and credible enough to say "use the PGM 301, its the closest thing to the one i use" hes stand by his word so much that everytim he do a clinic he can just get if off the shelves and wank with it. Now thats an endorsement.

Isn't that also Vai's "official" statement in the Ibanez Catalog? Goes something like "anywhere in the world, when I go in a store and pick up a Jem, it's my voice."

Dunno about his clinics, though.
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SOUND SAMPLES: http://www.bananarising.com/p/sound-samples.html

Offline Al_Librero

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #44 on: August 07, 2007, 11:28:30 AM »
I think that's what every Ibanez endorser says about their signature guitars.
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Offline inigo

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2007, 11:29:15 AM »
^^ Yes :D
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SOUND SAMPLES: http://www.bananarising.com/p/sound-samples.html

Offline erniebong

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2007, 11:55:12 AM »
Because their last priority is sound!!!

..........Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end  manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone.  Artist agenda is not so clear.  They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone.  Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.

And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...


NO ONE TO BLAME!---

THE FIRST QUESTION YOU NEED TO ASK YOURSELF IS -
       1) DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE BEST PRODUCT?
             WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF THE BEST?
OR
       2) DO YOU WANT TO HAVE THE BEST-MARKETED PRODUCT?

IT IS QUITE OBVIOUS THAT THE MAKERS OF THE BEST-MARKETED RRODUCTS KNOW YOUR REASON TO BUY AND THAT MOST OFTEN IT IS NOT BECAUSE OF QUALITY(SOUND)!! [QUESTION --- DOES KRIS AQUINO MAKE PEOPLE BUY?? OR DOES AGA MULAK OR DOES ROBIN PADILLA]

COMPANIES ARE DEFINED AS FOLLOWS:

   1) PRODUCT-DRIVEN
   2) MARKET-DRIVEN
   3) TECHNOLOGY-DRIVEN
   4) MANUFACTURING (PRODUCTION)-DRIVEN

GUESS WHERE YOUR FAVORITE AMP MAKERS FALL UNDER? 
corollary: WHERE DO THE BEST-MADE/SOUNDING AMPS FALL UNDER?

LAST QUESTION: HOW DO YOU BUY???


correct on all terms

its a business thing, its money conversation, if someone gets ticked off with money conversations i guess he has an internal money conversation problem. companies hire celeb endorsers because they think poeple will buy their opinion that would rectify the strength of a product at the end of the day companies big or small only have one agenda...revenue  thats the whole purpose of a business venture. Calling celeb endorsers who jump ship everytime a better offer is presented to them as a whore (or any words to that effect) is by far a form of bigotry to my opinion. these people are professionals who have secure money issues thats it. they are not coming out from the tv or print ads to twist your arm and force you to buy what they endorse. prime said freedom is the right of every sentient being i dont think they are taking that away from you when they endorse whatever product there is out there. . we are all free to not like whatever it is that we choose to not  like, but to justify hating someone for doing something that they are free to do which is not in anyway taking away your own freedom is bigotry as far as im concerned, The word Hate itself is bigotry. ponder that for a moment.  

We dont all like the same things, if you dont like a certain product then dont, but why should we hate others guys who like them and judged them because their making money by saying they like them?  

Offline skunkyfunk

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2007, 12:25:56 PM »
Because their last priority is sound!!!

Upon opening the latest Guitar World magazine I was shocked to learn that Steve Vai uses a Fender amp for his clean sounds.  What happened to 3 years ago when he promoted his Carvin Legacy as IT in terms of clean and distortion?  Remember that he was downgrading from a Bogner XTC.  Then he goes on to say in the video that Legacy combos are still great amps but the Fender adds a new dimension to his sound.  Furthermore, he goes to say that he is planning to design a Carvin Legacy 2 with an additional channel.  What the...?  Why didn't he stick to the XTC in the first place which already had 3 channels built in and with some minor tweaking from Rheinhold would actually turn any Carvin amp to crap?  Regardless of sound qualify, my point is that Artists should qualify that they sound the way the do because of the TOTAL system and not because of one particular component and that they give endorsement at that SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME ONLY.  Look at his Gear Diagram in the latest Guitar World and you will understand that it ain't only because of his Carvin Legacy.

Now a month before that, I was reading the Eddie Van Halen Issue and he says that the EVH III is his best amp to date.  And yet, why the hell didn't he design the 5150 to sound as good as the EVH III?  I bought one Peavey 5150 head and good riddance.  I had enough sense to realize that it sounded inferior to the amp that it was copying.  So,stay tuned for EVH XX? Now for all I care, it could be the best sounding amp head for US$2,000 but my point is that when will artists finally deliver sincere goods that have no attachments of endorsement deals and free equipment and when will they stop putting their names on amps, effects and guitars that they know they will outgrow in the future.  The number 1 offender is Fender which started this and Gibson as a close number 2.  PRS is also starting to this today.  By the way, I have heard more crappy sounding Santana  USA guitars than good sounding ones.  Fender YJM has its lastest incarnation now which according to a close YJM fan friend of mine who was able to test 4 new models a few weeks ago still sounded like crap compared to the older YJMs.

Back to Steve Vai, hasn't everybody wondered why after 20 years of JEM production Ibanez still cannot come up with JEM guitars to beat EVO and FLO?  The answer is because wood is too variable to control and Steve Vai says this in the guitar world video.  In short, out of the thousands of JEMS produced, only BO was added and the rest of the guitars are substandard vis - a -vis EVO and FLO.  Because if it sounded any better, Ibanez would send it first to Steve Vai instead of you.  By the way, I have yet to hear an Ibanez that sounds really killer.

Take a good look at Joe Satriani.  I have all his DVDs and I play them back across a good hi fi system, not the high end ones like KRELL but definitely not your plain vanilla asian or japanese sound system.  When I put in his latest DVD with his signature JSX Peavey Amps, I was floored because I never remembered hearing Joe sound so NGONGO.  His pick attack was missing in his lead runs.  His highs sounded harsh.  Though I know that it was only a DVD and it will be a different experience live I knew I was living with much better gear everyday of my life.

Nowadays between manufacturers and Artists I tend to believe small high end  manufacturers more because you know that they have a specific biased agenda and that if they do not deliver on their expensive price the market will yank them out of existence versus the name brands who use looks and endorsement to sell their bad sounding gear (on the average) to guitarists who never had the opportunity to get exposed to good tone.  Artist agenda is not so clear.  They can be swayed by endorsement deals and looks and their ego while short changing equipment manufacturers who really know how to deliver good tone.  Unfortunately it is also happening locally, you know of local artists who are endorsing a Korean Brand or Korean Made Guitar but after a while I don't see them anymore playing that specific Korean Brand or Korean made guitar.

And I blame all of us for trusting so much our beloved idols ...


And Dave Mustaine is endorsing Line 6 now.  Zakk Wylde "loves" cute ss halfstack Marshalls.  Dimebag likes the Korg G3.

 :roll:

But wait... what if your idols turned down endorsement offers, and someday they turn 95 and look back and tell themselves, "Why didn't I grab the opportunity [to endorse] back then so I can have a daily chiropractor session?"

Offline Taoistguitarist

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2007, 01:03:51 PM »
We all know its a marketing thing. Same rason why we have actors and actresses endorsing noodles and panty liners but that doesnt mean they eat panty liners and wear noodles of those brands all the time. Back to guitar, as far as endorsemnt goes IMHO only PG is brave enough and credible enough to say "use the PGM 301, its the closest thing to the one i use" hes stand by his word so much that everytim he do a clinic he can just get if off the shelves and wank with it. Now thats an endorsement.

hehehe i even read somewhere that he even had ibanez make a plywood bodied PGM for him and he actually liked it :|!  But of course i doubt if he'll prefer that over his current basswood guitar.  And the way he attacks the strings could compensate for the woods lack of response.
At least this guy stuck with Ibanez. EVH on the other hand....... :|

Offline erniebong

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Re: Why I hate artist endorsed Major Brands?
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2007, 01:14:51 PM »
here is a million dollar question... what if a major company offers you (each of us) a million dollar to pose and talk about how good their product is despite its inferior quality (relative to others) for a period of time would you do it? 

if you said yes you certainly have a perfect inner money conversation.
if you said no what do you think your freinds will say to you?   
« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 01:18:28 PM by erniebong »