True Acoustic Tone

[dantuts]

i think its ok to use effects on acoustic guitars... only "purist" wil say otherwise...

last 2006, i watched antonio forcione quartet live here in manila, one of the best acoustic player in UK.. dubbed as jimi hendrix of acoustic guitar.. he's playing a yamaha acoustic plugged on a Yamaha AG stomp plus volume pedal and TU-2.. the sound is very very good.. plus he's performing with his band (cello, upright bass, percussion..) although the theater was acoustically treated, when he was giving us a workshop... he was plugged on a Fender Stage 100.. still sound acoustic to my ears..now aint that acoustic !!.. even on he's dvd he's using chorus and reverb.. on nylon / steel acoustic..

my point is on our setting, we don't often have the luxury of acoustically treated bars, high end condenser mics, and a good sound engineer.. so little bit of effects can help.. marami naman effects specifically for acoustic..

yamaha AG stomp
Fishman Aura (yung malaki)
tska yung sonic exciter i forgot the name

i've been trying to get my hands on the FISHMAN , but i bought a telecaster 

[abyssinianson]

MAXI, GADGETS ARE FROWNED UPON BY ACOUSTIC MUSICIANS  , MENTION A BOSS BOX AND YOU MAY GET A SNICKER AT THE LEAST! MOST SIMPLY USE LIGHT REVERB (KONTING BASA/WET).... AN INEXPENSIVE LITTLE BOX WHICH HAS A VERY HIGH RATING IS THE ALESIS PICOVERB...ALESIS MAKES VERY GOOD REVERBS FOR THE PRO MARKET.. THE PICOVERB IS THE SIZE OF 2 STOMP BOXES.

i wouldn't say it is frowned upon by all acoustic musicians - this is a gross generalization. worse still, if you were asked a legit question and snickered back, i don't know where you've gigged and toured but, as far as I know, this would get you into faster trouble with people than running up a bar tab and not paying for it.

fact is, most acoustic players - fingerstyle or otherwise - usually don't need extensive effects because it defeats the purpose of having a nice acoustic guitar; you want to bring the sound of the guitar outfront, not hide it under layers of effects. I haven't met one acoustic player who would readily swear off any kind of effect addiction to his rig if it can be shown to work and add a good benefit to the existing sound.

[in_the_tent]

@in_the_tent,

this is what i'm saying.  acoustic musicians don't use gadgets to enhance/improve their tone.  they rely mostly on their guitar's natural tone for their sound.  so instead of investing in gadgets like stomp boxes, they will more likely get a good sounding guitar. 

bro, i do get your point. I myself don't want effects in my acoustic sound. Except for the light reverb na sinasabi ni sir GGBR. Kaya ako nagtatanong about reverb pedal..

[maxi_musikero]

bro, i do get your point. I myself don't want effects in my acoustic sound. Except for the light reverb na sinasabi ni sir GGBR. Kaya ako nagtatanong about reverb pedal..

i was under the impression that you were planning to buy the RV5 bro.  kaya i discouraged you.   

the RV5 at yupangco sells at around 10k...with that price, you can already get a Fishman Aura pedal (the small ones) and you'll get a better deal since Fishman is dedicated to acoustic, unlike the RV5. 

[maxi_musikero]

yamaha AG stomp
Fishman Aura (yung malaki)
tska yung sonic exciter i forgot the name

are you referring to the BBE Acoustimax Sonic Maximizer? 

price-wise, which is better between the AG stomp and the Aura?

[dantuts]

are you referring to the BBE Acoustimax Sonic Maximizer? 

price-wise, which is better between the AG stomp and the Aura?

hindi yung BBE e.. hmm... APHEX ata..

i think AURA is better , bago yung technology nya.. although i haven't played through one..

ask abyss.. he's an AURA user.. 

[GGBR]

 FROWNED UPON BY ACOUSTIC MUSICIANS -> not equal to ->
I wouldn't say it is frowned upon by all acoustic musicians - this is a gross generalization.

[maxi_musikero]

@ abyss,

as per dantuts' suggestion, i'll redirect my question to you. 

price and sound-wise, which is better between the AG stomp and the Aura?

[Kulas]

i wouldn't say it is frowned upon by all acoustic musicians - this is a gross generalization. worse still, if you were asked a legit question and snickered back, i don't know where you've gigged and toured but, as far as I know, this would get you into faster trouble with people than running up a bar tab and not paying for it.

fact is, most acoustic players - fingerstyle or otherwise - usually don't need extensive effects because it defeats the purpose of having a nice acoustic guitar; you want to bring the sound of the guitar outfront, not hide it under layers of effects. I haven't met one acoustic player who would readily swear off any kind of effect addiction to his rig if it can be shown to work and add a good benefit to the existing sound.

um, as far as i understand it, you seem to be agreeing with each other.

[abyssinianson]

um, as far as i understand it, you seem to be agreeing with each other.

perhaps I should elaborate on what I mean - all i am saying is that i know quite a few acoustic musicians who wouldn't frown on using effects in their signal chain which is quite different from what GGBR said which insinuates that acoustic musicians would frown (or snicker) at the thought of using effects. this includes amateur, and touring musicians alike. so, no, i am not agreeing with what the guy said per se....i am merely pointing out that to say acoustic musicians would snicker at the thought of using an effect is a generalization because a lot of folks out there in my gigging circuit use effects which aren't your basic reverb and delays.

[Kulas]

perhaps I should elaborate on what I mean - all i am saying is that i know quite a few acoustic musicians who wouldn't frown on using effects in their signal chain which is quite different from what GGBR said which insinuates that acoustic musicians would frown (or snicker) at the thought of using effects. this includes amateur, and touring musicians alike.

ahh, i guess it all boils down to personal taste. some like having effects, then there are the purists.

though i don't think there were any "gross generalizations" made, unless this would turn into another grammar battle.

[abyssinianson]

@ abyss,

as per dantuts' suggestion, i'll redirect my question to you. 

price and sound-wise, which is better between the AG stomp and the Aura?

i like the Aura..it is made well and translates great to different guitars with the variety of modeling options available. ive never used the AG stomp. I have heard of some recording with the aura as well but I still use my trusty Demeter tube VTB in addition to micing acoustics in the studio. i would recommend trying out the 2 units to see which would fit your purposes and budget. here is a caveat about the Aura - it isn't very tweakable so you will need to make sure your guitar sounds good with it, or you could have Fishman model your guitar and produce a modeling file based on it like I did. Since I hate tweaking live - the Aura is perfect for getting a nice DI complement to my acoustic amp when I need it.

[abyssinianson]

ahh, i guess it all boils down to personal taste. some like having effects, then there are the purists.

though i don't think there were any "gross generalizations" made, unless this would turn into another grammar battle.

you're right, chief, saying it was a gross generalization was a bit of overkill. my apologies. but - yes - preference does play a key role in shaping your live acoustic tone and I am all for this approach. as much as i like the natural sound of my acoustics, i wouldn't completely count the use of effects out because the possibilities of producing interesting tones and layers with modulation opens up a slew of possibilities live and in writing songs.

[dantuts]

i like the Aura..it is made well and translates great to different guitars with the variety of modeling options available. ive never used the AG stomp. I have heard of some recording with the aura as well but I still use my trusty Demeter tube VTB in addition to micing acoustics in the studio. i would recommend trying out the 2 units to see which would fit your purposes and budget. here is a caveat about the Aura - it isn't very tweakable so you will need to make sure your guitar sounds good with it, or you could have Fishman model your guitar and produce a modeling file based on it like I did. Since I hate tweaking live - the Aura is perfect for getting a nice DI complement to my acoustic amp when I need it.

abys, thats my main concern about AURA.. hindi sya tweakable although you can download images sa net.. or make your own.. hindi sya plug and play, we still need to find the best image for your guitar unless your lucky right ?  its not feasible to send your acoustic guitar if your living here in manila.. hehehe

i also hate tweaking live, i sound different with each bar we play.. and it frustrates me i have to adjust in the middle of the song.. darn tapos wala na sira na EQ'ing.. after..

[abyssinianson]

absyy, thats my main concern about AURA.. hindi sya tweakable although you can download images sa net.. or make your own.. hindi sya plug and play, we still need to find the best image for your guitar unless your lucky right ? 

i also hate tweaking live, i sound different with each bar we play.. and it frustrates me i have to adjust in the middle of the song.. darn tapos wala na sira na EQ'ing.. after..

yeah - that is the drawback to the aura - your guitar needs to sound great with the onboard images on the unit otherwise, buying the unit and not having it match your guitar would make it useless. in this respect, the AG stomp might outdo the Aura in terms of versatility but, IMO, when the Aura sounds good - it sounds really good which leads me to strongly recommend that you take your guitar and try it through the Aura to really get a good feel for the unit.

[Kulas]

you're right, chief, saying it was a gross generalization was a bit of overkill. my apologies. but - yes - preference does play a key role in shaping your live acoustic tone and I am all for this approach. as much as i like the natural sound of my acoustics, i wouldn't completely count the use of effects out because the possibilities of producing interesting tones and layers with modulation opens up a slew of possibilities live and in writing songs.

yeah, being somewhat of a purist, i'd rather not have effects in my acoustic chain, i like the "raw" acoustic sound over the "processed" sound. though i've been wanting to try at the very least, a compressor pedal to balance the sound a little. the "raw" sound could get a bit harsh sometimes, also depending on the PA system i'm plugging at and the EQ setting. but then again, maybe not, haha!

[maxi_musikero]

i like the Aura..it is made well and translates great to different guitars with the variety of modeling options available. ive never used the AG stomp. I have heard of some recording with the aura as well but I still use my trusty Demeter tube VTB in addition to micing acoustics in the studio. i would recommend trying out the 2 units to see which would fit your purposes and budget. here is a caveat about the Aura - it isn't very tweakable so you will need to make sure your guitar sounds good with it, or you could have Fishman model your guitar and produce a modeling file based on it like I did. Since I hate tweaking live - the Aura is perfect for getting a nice DI complement to my acoustic amp when I need it.

thanks for the caveat abyss!  i was almost sold!   

i would like to try the Aura.  are you referring to the big one?  what's your take on their stomp box versions?  the ones with "dreadnought", "orchestra" and "jumbo" labeled on them?

[maxi_musikero]

yeah, being somewhat of a purist, i'd rather not have effects in my acoustic chain, i like the "raw" acoustic sound over the "processed" sound. though i've been wanting to try at the very least, a compressor pedal to balance the sound a little. the "raw" sound could get a bit harsh sometimes, also depending on the PA system i'm plugging at and the EQ setting. but then again, maybe not, haha!

hail the threadstarter!!   

since i've never tried any high-end acoustic effects, i still can't speak on the 'raw' and 'processed' acoustic sound.  although i am happy with the 'raw' sound that comes of my guitar now, i still don't know how better (wrong grammar...pero for lack of better term.. ) it will sound with the right acoustic effects. 

[dantuts]

thanks for the caveat abyss!  i was almost sold!   

i would like to try the Aura.  are you referring to the big one?  what's your take on their stomp box versions?  the ones with "dreadnought", "orchestra" and "jumbo" labeled on them?

he's referring to AURA BLENDER (the big one) regarding the stompbox version, they're the same, without the other functions of the AURA Blender (tuner, usb etc..) with 16 preset to choose from.. the downside is .. your stuck with the presets

[abyssinianson]

ive never tried the stompbox versions but i do know that they are designed individually with the intention of catering to specific instruments so the cost is lower. it doesn';t make sense for you to buy the blender if you don't play a jumbo or anything other than a dread. in my case, the blender works well because i have several acoustics and I tend to bring 2 with me when I gig live - i have a dread and a custom jumbo-ish guitar for a different tuning so the blender works really well. i only modeled my alvarez-yairi but the image works well with my other guitar.

[maxi_musikero]

my family is planning to go to Singapore this summer, and i wouldn't miss the chance to grab some gear.   

i've been browsing the websites of different Singapore guitar shops.  i'm planning to get either a Baggs DI or an acoustic (or maybe both!  ).

the Baggs is priced at SGD260.

this acoustic caught my eye.  it's a Cort Earth200GC.  here's the link:

http://www.luthermusic.com/cgi-bin/WB_ItemPageGen.pl?t=1201082290&Pid=2&Gid=

tell me what you think!  thanks! 

[GGBR]

this acoustic caught my eye.  it's a Cort Earth200GC.  here's the link:

http://www.luthermusic.com/cgi-bin/WB_ItemPageGen.pl?t=1201082290&Pid=2&Gid=

tell me what you think!  thanks! 

Hi Maxi!  Cort's factory was moved last year from Gyeryong, S. Korea (I was there recently where I found out) to China. This acoustic you posted is w/laminated back/sides and will land in your hand for about P20k. There are other options locally available w/laminated back/side at a 3rd to a 4th that. It may be worth considering. 

[chito_eoi]

yeah, being somewhat of a purist, i'd rather not have effects in my acoustic chain, i like the "raw" acoustic sound over the "processed" sound. though i've been wanting to try at the very least, a compressor pedal to balance the sound a little. the "raw" sound could get a bit harsh sometimes, also depending on the PA system i'm plugging at and the EQ setting. but then again, maybe not, haha!

i agree with you brother pewee, but not on the compressor part (kakabenta ko lang ng CS-3 ko and ayaw ko muna bumili ng ibang gear ngayon)
... nakikisabat na rin ako dito coz i just traded my applause AE227 guitar for a yamaha 300D. then bought a Martin Strings for its replacement., isa lang masasabi ko -ngayon lang ako nagkaroon ng ganito kagandang tunog ng acoustic grabe haaarrrr!

[maxi_musikero]

Hi Maxi!  Cort's factory was moved last year from Gyeryong, S. Korea (I was there recently where I found out) to China. This acoustic you posted is w/laminated back/sides and will land in your hand for about P20k. There are other options locally available w/laminated back/side at a 3rd to a 4th that. It may be worth considering. 

i used the exchange rate of SGD to PHP and the price is around P12K.  or is the P20K inclusive of hard case and other accessories?

i think 12K is fair given that this guitar has solid cedar top and solid mahogany back.  i can't get an acoustic with that specs and price locally.   

[maxi_musikero]

... nakikisabat na rin ako dito coz i just traded my applause AE227 guitar for a yamaha 300D. then bought a Martin Strings for its replacement., isa lang masasabi ko -ngayon lang ako nagkaroon ng ganito kagandang tunog ng acoustic grabe haaarrrr!

ito pala yung kay sir itchybrain sa classifieds.  good trade sir chito!  by the looks of it, nag-age na yung wood kaya mukhang maganda na talaga ang tunog nya. 

congrats on your new axe.