6 speakers for 200 people?!

[dx020]

Mga master, help naman po.

A "sound guy" went to our church kasi. He seems to know things about sound reinforcement and such, given the fact na rin na nagrerepair sya ng electronic equipment. Kaso may mga sinabi siya na hindi ko alam kung widely accepted or normal na setup yung ganun.

Just for info:
Ang gamit namen for FoH is a pair of old Proel TFL 12" full range cabinets chaka isang pair ng TFL 18" [if i'm not mistaken] na subwoofers. Ang "congregation" usually around 200 people.

So eto ang mga sinabi nya [paraphrase ko na lang]:

-Magagandang Amp ang pundasyon ng sound system mo.
-ang speakers kahit ung mga locally made lang ok na yun.
-tapos ang mixer mo kahit hindi ganun kaganda.

Plus, he's suggesting na dagdagan pa daw namen ang FoH. So ang kalalabasan, 6 na speakers daw. dalawang 15" sa harap, dalawang 15" sa bandang gitna, ta's dalawang 12" sa likod. ang orientation nila, kumbaga lahat e "pointing to the center" ng worship hall.

nakukuha ko naman yung point na pwede naman sila hinaan lang para kahit malaki, hindi nakaka basag tenga. pero may "cheaper" solution po ba dito? Ang naiisip ko lang kasi e i-fly na lang yung dalawang existing namen na Proel para mas maganda ang spread ng sound throughout the hall.

Salamat po sa mga reply. God bless po.

[sori po napakahaba ng kwento ko]

[skyjammer]

Is the distance from your stage to the back over 30 meters? Is the building shape circle? Rectangular? Square?

Specify details about your church's structure so masters here can help. Sorry I'm not one of them; not even close but there are people here who are willing to help.

[dx020]

 ___12m______
|*              *|
|                  |
|                  |
|*              *|  20 m
|                  |
|                  |
|                  |
|*_________*|

yung mga asterisk po e yung dinidescribe na positions nung speakers, all, more or less, pointing to the center. parang ganyan po ang ichura. hehe. how justifiable po ba ang ganitong system?

[stoney73]

Mga master, help naman po.

A "sound guy" went to our church kasi. He seems to know things about sound reinforcement and such, given the fact na rin na nagrerepair sya ng electronic equipment. Kaso may mga sinabi siya na hindi ko alam kung widely accepted or normal na setup yung ganun.

Just for info:
Ang gamit namen for FoH is a pair of old Proel TFL 12" full range cabinets chaka isang pair ng TFL 18" [if i'm not mistaken] na subwoofers. Ang "congregation" usually around 200 people.

So eto ang mga sinabi nya [paraphrase ko na lang]:

-Magagandang Amp ang pundasyon ng sound system mo.
-ang speakers kahit ung mga locally made lang ok na yun.
-tapos ang mixer mo kahit hindi ganun kaganda.

Plus, he's suggesting na dagdagan pa daw namen ang FoH. So ang kalalabasan, 6 na speakers daw. dalawang 15" sa harap, dalawang 15" sa bandang gitna, ta's dalawang 12" sa likod. ang orientation nila, kumbaga lahat e "pointing to the center" ng worship hall.

nakukuha ko naman yung point na pwede naman sila hinaan lang para kahit malaki, hindi nakaka basag tenga. pero may "cheaper" solution po ba dito? Ang naiisip ko lang kasi e i-fly na lang yung dalawang existing namen na Proel para mas maganda ang spread ng sound throughout the hall.

Salamat po sa mga reply. God bless po.

[sori po napakahaba ng kwento ko]

Dude, your tech mentioned this:

-Magagandang Amp ang pundasyon ng sound system mo. - AGREE. BUT NOT JUST THE AMPS THAT YOU SHOULD GIVE FOCUS.  EVERYTHING THE AUDIO SIGNAL PASSES IS IMPORTANT.
-ang speakers kahit ung mga locally made lang ok na yun. - COMPROMISED.
-tapos ang mixer mo kahit hindi ganun kaganda. - COMPROMISED.

Try to find another tech who really knows how to do installations.

[mikep]

Kung ako tatanungi, may mga tanong muna ako.
1)  Ano ang dispersion ng mga loudspeakers niyo? Horizontal and vertical?
Ano ang sensitivity ng mga ito?
2)  Anong SPL ang kailangan o gusto niyo sa likod ng simbahan?
3)  Ano ang akustic ng simbahan niyo?  Highly reverberant ba? 
4)  May budget ba to update equipment?

200 people can be easily covered by 2 speakers, dependent on how you position your loudspeakers.  Do not put loudspeakers at the back position as you will disorient the congregation (sasakit ulo nila).  All sound must emanate from "almost" front.  The better way of covering your church is to use the multi line distributed system.  4 loudspeakers - two in front aimed at the congregation to cover left and right front, then two mid-way, left and right as well.  Hang the 4 loudspeakers in the ceiling, if you have a good high ceiling, aiming them in such a way that you cover both the front and back and the periphery of the next loudspeaker.  That way the dispersion will be even all throughout.  Delay the two mid-way loudspeakers.  You have to plot the coverage of each loudspeaker so that you can see if the coverage is well balanced, otherwise, you will encounter lobings, which will result to uneven dispersion of your sound throughout the space.  Go over the net and research on this technique.

Hope this helps.

[dx020]

98db po ang sensitivity @ 1W/1m, max is 125db
as to SPL, we don't have exact numbers, pero yung tama lang po sa pandinig. Listening level. Reverberant din po ang hall e. As to budget, well, we can pray about it. 

200 people can be easily covered by 2 speakers

- ito din po ang nasa isip ko e. sa experience ko with our equipment, sapat na ang power ng mga speakers namen to do the job. critical placement lang talaga.

Do not put loudspeakers at the back position as you will disorient the congregation (sasakit ulo nila).

-ayon. So tama pala ang naiisip ko na hindi magandang maglagay ng speakers sa likod and facing center/front. Duda kasi ako nung sinabi ni "tech" yun e.

Placing speakers midway will have to wait due to a number of reasons. Regarding lobings, mukhang pag aaralan ko pa po talaga yan. hehe. Pero sa current setup namen, which is two speakers placed sa harap, at about 2 meters from the ground, pointing towards the center, most likely may lobing po yun no?

-ang speakers kahit ung mga locally made lang ok na yun. - COMPROMISED.
-tapos ang mixer mo kahit hindi ganun kaganda. - COMPROMISED.

now the only problem is papaano ko sasabihin kay pastor na maraming disagree kay "tech" regarding his suggested setup. 

[sikyo]

Dude, your tech mentioned this:

-Magagandang Amp ang pundasyon ng sound system mo. - AGREE. BUT NOT JUST THE AMPS THAT YOU SHOULD GIVE FOCUS.  EVERYTHING THE AUDIO SIGNAL PASSES IS IMPORTANT.
-ang speakers kahit ung mga locally made lang ok na yun. - COMPROMISED.
-tapos ang mixer mo kahit hindi ganun kaganda. - COMPROMISED.

Try to find another tech who really knows how to do installations.

+1. the whole signal chain needs to be good (and yes there are good audio hardware which are not too pricey, i found that out here at philmusic) and especially your transducers (mics and loudspeakers). and also not to be underestimated is the role of good mic and speaker placement as well as proper gain structure. churches are notorious for being to live (highly reverberant, as ours). distributed system is a good option in such cases, IMHO.

[mikep]

Pero sa current setup namen, which is two speakers placed sa harap, at about 2 meters from the ground, pointing towards the center, most likely may lobing po yun no?

If you can position the loudspeakers so that they are hang from the ceiling pointed towards a position where the front portion of the congregation and the back portion (at least 1.2 meters height - sitting position) is covered as well, you are in good shape.  Get the angle of dispersion of your loudspeakers (60 degrees horizontal, 40 degrees vertical?) and plot it to satisfy covering the above requirement.  You will know, by using that method, where to effectively place the loudspeakers, the axis pointed towards the congregation.  The way I look at it, the loudspeakers might be positioned about 4 to 5 meters away from your altar or stage.  The higher is your ceiling height, the better.

FWIW

[dx020]

ayon po sa manual:

Coverage Angle H. (-6 dB)  :    70°
Coverage Angle V. (-6 dB)  :    70°

[copied from http://www.proelgroup.com/proel/en/soundreinforcement/product.jsp?id_prod=11109701662260&id_scat=11625505415560&id_cat=11652447890720]

mukhang hindi naman po magiging problema samen ang ceiling height with regard to mounting. i guess we have to do more math now. haha. salamat po.

[Beau]

sa church namin to mid speakers ang gamit ko dual nga lang. tapos may sub ako ang sukat ng church namin eh nasa 20 mters.
ok na ok ang sounds