hulika

Author Topic: 2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?  (Read 4998 times)

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« on: August 07, 2006, 06:25:19 PM »
here's a stupid idea, let's say i have a laptop with 2 firewire ports. i want to record live drums in 4 tracks (2 OH, snare and bass mics) but the behringer firewire interface only has 2 input channels. what i want to do is to get another firewire interface and connect it to my second firewire port. then i'll use the FX sends of my mixer to the behringer interfaces. both overhead mics go into behri 1 and snare + bass on behri 2. im expecting to record them from track 1 to 4 of ableton.

has anyone tried this and actually recorded 4 independent tracks from two interfaces?


PS: please entertain the idea (however stupid it is) before bashing behringer and me  :oops: . im going for a new pc and delta 1010 setup by next year but i really need to have a quickie and cheap setup right now.

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2006, 09:06:19 PM »
Sounds risky. Neither the manual nor Behringer's site states that you can gang 2 or more FCA202 as in the case with some other firewire interfaces (e.g. RME Fireface). You might have driver issues if you attempt to do so. I suggest checking with Behringer or their user groups for that functionality.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline markthevirtuoso

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 01:56:37 AM »
Oo pre. Sounds risky nga. Usually, bihira ka lang pede makagamit ng 2 or more interface at a time except for some hi-end ones (eg digidesign 96s, 192s and the likes) and those interfaces that supports daisy chaining.

Try checking out with Behringher first. :)
Fidelity means a horrible noise sounds like a horrible noise.

Offline junig

  • Senior Member
  • ***
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 07:26:25 AM »
4 tracks.. how about using the  soundcard's "line in" together with the behringer fca 202?

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 11:27:53 AM »
im wondering, can the daw software be configured to accept signals from 2 interfaces simultaneously?
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744


Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 11:44:57 AM »
Quote from: junig
4 tracks.. how about using the  soundcard's "line in" together with the behringer fca 202?


could be, but i think there is still a problem on my theory which is also related to your suggestion. line in signals are treated as stereo to go to one track only. i dont know if its possible to send the left channel to one track and the right channel to another track.


Quote from: starfugger
im wondering, can the daw software be configured to accept signals from 2 interfaces simultaneously?


i think so, since you can select whatever input source you want to use per track. besides firewire devices are meant to be daisy chained. come to think of it again, i dont know if the fca202 can be treated as two mono sources on the software to be able to record from one box into two tracks.

my biggest fear here is that if i go buy 2 fca202 and still be limited to record on two tracks :( (each device treated as a stereo source only like "line in")


*if all else fails then its time to hunt for a 2nd hand m-audio firewire 1814

Offline starfugger

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2006, 12:02:47 PM »
in my case kasi, i use cubase sx.  and in my device setup folder, i can choose the FireFace800 ASIO driver.  if i choose some other driver my fireface wont work.  i know i can chain 2 ff800's, but im not sure if i can hook up a different brand of firewire interface.  since you intend to use 2 units of the same stuff, that would mean u will be utilizing just one driver.  so no problem there.  but you're right, the question is can the behri be ganged up to accept 4 inputs at a time?  maybe an email to technical support can help.
FOR RENT: Canon 550D, Canon 60D, Glidecam (Machinist), Toribio Slider EX with a pair of tripods for mounting, 2 1000W Lights with 9ft stands, Zoom H4, Rode Video Mic, Portable LED Lights 09154574744

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2006, 12:50:04 PM »
Quote from: starfugger
im wondering, can the daw software be configured to accept signals from 2 interfaces simultaneously?


With Cubase, you can, but you will have to use high-latency MME drivers. In Sonar, you use WDM drivers to be able to use 2 different soundcards simultaneously, but since you are accessing 2 diff. soundcards, hence 2 diff. drivers, there is no assurance that those 2 cards will be synced to one another unless you can feed s/pdif from one device to another and do a master/slave configuration, even if you are only using the analog inputs. This will assure tight sync between the 2 cards without tracks slowly drifting out of sync.

As for asio drivers, repeat my mantra: "You can only access one asio device at a time... ah-uhmmmm". Some cards, like the M-Audio Delta 1010, allow you to use 2 or more 1010's with the same asio driver but that's the extent of multiple card usage with asio. You can't use 2 different cards (with their different asio drivers) simultaneously - that is the nature of the beast.

Quote from: peeves24
Quote from: junig
4 tracks.. how about using the  soundcard's "line in" together with the behringer fca 202?


could be, but i think there is still a problem on my theory which is also related to your suggestion. line in signals are treated as stereo to go to one track only. i dont know if its possible to send the left channel to one track and the right channel to another track.


With both Sonar and Cubase, you can assign any audio track to mono and assign either channel of a stereo signal to that track. It's the same as mono functionality provided that the left and right channel separation is very good (refer to your card's crosstalk figures).

Quote from: peeves24

Quote from: starfugger
im wondering, can the daw software be configured to accept signals from 2 interfaces simultaneously?


i think so, since you can select whatever input source you want to use per track. besides firewire devices are meant to be daisy chained. come to think of it again, i dont know if the fca202 can be treated as two mono sources on the software to be able to record from one box into two tracks.

my biggest fear here is that if i go buy 2 fca202 and still be limited to record on two tracks :( (each device treated as a stereo source only like "line in")


*if all else fails then its time to hunt for a 2nd hand m-audio firewire 1814


DAW soft can be configured to accept audio from several cards - see above.

While it's true firewire devices are meant to be daisy chained, their drivers are usually the weak point. Like I said earlier, the FCA makes no indication in the manual or website whether it can be daisy chained or not; if it had that capability, I believe Behringer would be saying so. To find out just by buying another FCA202 would be a rather expensive proposition. So far, I know that RME firewire devices can be daisy chained, but they're a bit expensive. Another device that's more within reach ($199) AND can be daisy chained, is the Presonus Inspire 1394 - a 4-channel firewire interface.

The M-Audio is a good interface but watch out for possible incompatibilities in computers with SATA drives as it is a known problem. I know of one instance with the Firewire 410, for example, where they just couldn't get it to work on a professionally built DAW. As always, a lot of prior research is key in order to avoid the most headaches with these equipment.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2006, 01:26:18 PM »
thanks sir kit!

i did sent out an email to behringer about the daisy chain theory. i'll post whatever reply i get from them.

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2006, 09:34:36 AM »
Quote from: junig
4 tracks.. how about using the  soundcard's "line in" together with the behringer fca 202?


tried your suggestion last night on adobe audition 2 and it might just work. i can now record on two tracks from the line in jack.

i called up electronics depot branches last night but none of them have the firewire interface on stock. just my luck  :cry:

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2006, 02:39:09 PM »
peeves24,

You can do the 2nd interface trick provided the recorded piece isn't very long. To check if the 2 devices are reasonably in sync, route the left channel of your drum track (or any other stereo track) to one interface and the right channel to the other interface.  You can't create a single stereo track using 2 different audio devices so it will have to be 2 mono tracks. Keep the recording short; no more than 5 minutes - long recordings will only make the timing drift more apparent.

Listen to the 2 tracks panned dead center. At best, timing drift will sound like the track was put thru a phaser or flanger but at worst, you will hear the beat going out of time. Unfortunately, there's no easy fix for this and I wouldn't recommend recording in this manner because it will sound like the whole recording was put thru a phaser or has lopsided timing. But if you're really lucky, you won't hear a thing.

Too bad the FCA doesn't have s/pdif I/O. If it did, syncing would have been terribly easy especially if your mobo or other soundcard has s/pdif outs. FYI, the routing principles I mentioned previously for Cubase and Sonar also apply with Audition.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2006, 04:05:24 PM »
thanks again sir kit! now i wonder why i wasted 4 days looking for info on the net instead of just asking you directly  :lol:

Offline onairstudio

  • Netizen Level
  • **
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2006, 09:56:25 PM »
i have a bnew fca202 and i want to trade it with a condenser microphone. please pm me, thanks!

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2006, 03:20:02 PM »
onair,

I'm doing a study on locally available interfaces. Did you get the FCA locally? And how much? Did they have the usb equivalent UCA202?
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline onairstudio

  • Netizen Level
  • **
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2006, 09:59:27 PM »
yup i got it locally, its priced at P5995 but im selling it for P4995 incase anyone is interested=)

behringer does have USB audio interface available called UCA200/202. i have the UCA200, but i rarely use it. i bought it so i can try direct pc recording instead of using the line-in port of my soundcard. im still in the learning process, trial and error, haha thats why i need a workshop  :)

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2006, 12:48:22 AM »
Thanks for the info, Miz onairstudio!  :wink:

Yeah, marvinq straightened me out on that one.

So you have both the FCA and UCA... any special reason why you're letting go of the FCA?
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline onairstudio

  • Netizen Level
  • **
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2006, 02:14:31 AM »
marvinq? is he the guy i met earlier? haha sorry. i know his name is marvin but i forgot his handle name here :D he was the one who kept calling me "sir" but im kinda tired correcting everyone so i got used to it, and they always get surprised when they see me  :lol:

most of the people in the studio business are male , its kinda nice to see fellow women here though which is really a RARE thing. i know someone here , SOUNDKITCHEN, haha hi hazel!

the reason im selling the fca202: my current computer doesnt have a firewire port, although i tried to search for a firewire pci card adaptor...no luck.. do you know anyone selling one? or can you help me find an alternative?

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2006, 08:16:36 AM »
Quote from: onairstudio
the reason im selling the fca202: my current computer doesnt have a firewire port, although i tried to search for a firewire pci card adaptor...no luck.. do you know anyone selling one? or can you help me find an alternative?


Go to any Apple store and look for the Lacie brand firewire pci cards. Adaptec also makes firewire cards, but make sure the card is using a Texas Instruments chipset. Never use a Via firewire chipset for audio! Damn things don't work well for audio interfaces.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline peeves24

  • Philmusicus Addictus
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2006, 08:51:45 AM »
Quote from: onairstudio
i have a bnew fca202 and i want to trade it with a condenser microphone. please pm me, thanks!


pm sent!

Offline onairstudio

  • Netizen Level
  • **
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2006, 11:38:54 AM »
Quote from: KitC
[Go to any Apple store and look for the Lacie brand firewire pci cards. Adaptec also makes firewire cards, but make sure the card is using a Texas Instruments chipset. Never use a Via firewire chipset for audio! Damn things don't work well for audio interfaces.


thanks KiTC ..but ..how will i know if my motherboard is compatible with a firewire pci card? do you have a store and contact number you can refer me to? sorry for these questions....once again...i need WORKSHOP! haha  :oops:

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2006, 11:55:26 AM »
What mobo are you using? I'm stepping out in a while but you got PM.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline pindeho2005

  • Regular Member
  • ***
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2006, 06:39:01 PM »
how about mobo with built in firewire... it is possible?
"ROCK AND ROLL LANG WALANG DUGASAN"

Offline KitC

  • Prime Moderator
  • *****
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2006, 07:47:37 PM »
Quote from: pindeho2005
how about mobo with built in firewire... it is possible?


The only mobo I know of with TI firewire chipsets were the Gigabyte K8N 939 Ultra Nforce3 series, not sure about N4 or newer mobos. Gigabyte are also the only mobo manufacturer to implement the 1394b standard which doubles the data rate over normal firewire. Presumably, Gigabyte uses TI for most of their high end mobos; all others seem to use Via. You can attempt to use the onboard Via firewire, but don't come running if audio craps out on you for using it.
Sonar 4.04PE/5.2PE/7.02PE/8.31 PE, Project 5 v2.5.1, EmulatorX 1.5, Cubase SL2, Ableton Live 7.14,  Intel Q6600 MSI P43 Neo 4Gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2-800, Emu 1820m, Yamaha DSP Factory, Terratec DMX 6fire

Offline onairstudio

  • Netizen Level
  • **
2 behringer fca 202 for 4 channel input?
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2006, 10:26:40 PM »
ok i was able to canvass firewire pci cards, price range 550, 650 and 1000. the 1000 is manufactured by nvidia, although they dont know if its texas chipset, they cant install it in my pc cause...my windows is not licensed  :oops: