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The Musician Forums => Music Technology & Pro Audio => Topic started by: Audiomaster on August 02, 2011, 12:15:26 AM
Title: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 02, 2011, 12:15:26 AM
Mga sir ano sa palagay niyo ang mainam pang bass crell ca20 or soundstandard ca20?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: barracks01 on August 02, 2011, 06:53:00 AM
halos parehas lang yan sir
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 02, 2011, 01:22:23 PM
Sir ano sa dalawa ang mas matibay crell o soundstandard ? thanks
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: wesleywes on August 05, 2011, 10:34:35 AM
sakit s ulo ang crell power amp. sinunog niya ang mga jbl speaker ko n galing p s US. ang akala ko malakas siya wala p siyang protection system s speaker.. ibang brand sana ang kukunin ko kaya lng napabilib ako s sales talk ng salesman ng taga raon hindi pala ok.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yahu on August 05, 2011, 02:45:39 PM
ohh noooo jbl's........sana soundquest nalang......never been broken pa p audio speakers ko
that's bad for crell...buti not my choice of brand yan c....
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: tjlimjoco on August 05, 2011, 05:24:14 PM
sir baka na over power yong jbl mo kya nasunog,,kc ako mag 2 years ko ng ginagamit ung ca25 ko eh ok pa nman mga speakers ko,,600 watts lang ung mga speakers ko ha..samantala ung power ng ca25 eh 1400 wtts 8 ohms at 2500 watts 4 ohms per channel,,at palagi ngang 8 ohms lang ung load nmin..basta alalay lang sa pag volume at wag mong papulahin ang cliping signal safe yan..
+1 B0z dapat 8 0hms l0adinG para magtatagal anG mga speakers. :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yahu on August 05, 2011, 09:02:05 PM
mga bossing u mean di kaya ng crell ang 4 ohms? now lang ako nakarinig nyan ah.how sad :-(
a very powerful amplifier can't do a 4ohms load or 2 ohms load...can you clarify this mga sir.ty
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 05, 2011, 09:23:59 PM
sir baka na over power yong jbl mo kya nasunog,,kc ako mag 2 years ko ng ginagamit ung ca25 ko eh ok pa nman mga speakers ko,,600 watts lang ung mga speakers ko ha..samantala ung power ng ca25 eh 1400 wtts 8 ohms at 2500 watts 4 ohms per channel,,at palagi ngang 8 ohms lang ung load nmin..basta alalay lang sa pag volume at wag mong papulahin ang cliping signal safe yan..
Sir do you mean 1 amp 2 spk only, one per side lang ang gamit niyo sa crell ca25?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 05, 2011, 10:44:33 PM
delikado pala ang crell sa 4 ohms masusunog pala mga spk ko ! thanks for the info mga sir
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yahu on August 05, 2011, 11:22:57 PM
madaling magpeak at overpower at 8ohms load...sir mants how about sa open grounds ano performance nya? lalo na mgpeak ba? kasi at 4 ohms mas hirap na dapat amps nyan from my experience.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: spacejam on August 06, 2011, 10:10:56 AM
sa open grounds mas maganda sir kc napapalakasan talaga,,at wla akong masabi sa ca25 ko ,ika nga wla n akong hahanapin pa hehe..at dnman hirap ung ca25 sa 4 ohms..kc ung load nya 4 n 18" 600 watts RMS 5"VC kontra 2500 watts/channel sa 4 ohms eh nka match sya ,,
Sir Ano gamit nyo speaker?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 06, 2011, 12:48:15 PM
Sir sayang naman ang power ng crell kung hindi mo siya magamit ng todo kung may spk protection lang sana yan crell ok sana , mahal pa naman ang crell ca25
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: spacejam on August 07, 2011, 07:30:11 AM
Sir mas maganda naman talaga Kung 1 amp 2 speaker ang gamit... Pero Hindi lahat may budget...syempre makakatipid pag 1 amp 4 speakers... Minsan nakikita ko pa nga 6 speakers gamit eh...in my opinion sir kahit CA16 kaya na yung speaker nyo Kung 2 speaker Lang i drive ... Nakatipid ka pa...
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 07, 2011, 11:38:53 AM
yes sir tama po kau,,kahit ca16 lng kayang kaya n nyang e drive ung mga speakers ko mababa lng kc wattage ya,,noon kc iniisip ko n kapag bumili ako ng mahina n amps eh baka makulangan ako sa lakas nya at bigla akong mag upgrade ng mas malakas,,at isa pa bka bigla akong mag upgrade ng speaker kya ganon ang nangyari hehe,,,kya nga ngaun eh nag iipon n ako pambili ng c18 650el 1200 watts at doon ko isalpak sa ca25 ,,ung neusch ko bili nlang ako ng mababang amps,,
Sir kung balak niyo bumili ng c18 650el suggestion ko lang wag niyo nang gamitin sa crell25 over power na kasi baka madaling malaspag yung p audio sayang yung spk gamitan mo lang nang mababang wattage na amp madali lang i drive ang p audio
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 07, 2011, 04:37:14 PM
Sd18el go for it mas ok yan, kaylangan mo talaga alalayan ngayon sa crell baka sunugin naman ang sd18 el hehehe ok yung speaker pero yung amp not so reliable
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: mants on August 07, 2011, 05:32:15 PM
Sd18el go for it mas ok yan, kaylangan mo talaga alalayan ngayon sa crell baka sunugin naman ang sd18 el hehehe ok yung speaker pero yung amp not so reliable
tnks sir,,
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: soundtech on August 07, 2011, 07:16:40 PM
mga sir mag soundstandard na lang po kayo tested na ito. malinis siyang tumunog sa midhigh, madiin sa bass, maganda pa ang clipping system, protektado ang speaker ninyo at kilala na siya sa international market. ingat lang po kayo mga sir, marami dyan china made na power amp na inaadjust ang clipping system para hindi pumula yung signal, once kasi na pumula un sunog ang speaker ninyo.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 08, 2011, 12:50:24 AM
mga sir mag soundstandard na lang po kayo tested na ito. malinis siyang tumunog sa midhigh, madiin sa bass, maganda pa ang clipping system, protektado ang speaker ninyo at kilala na siya sa international market. ingat lang po kayo mga sir, marami dyan china made na power amp na inaadjust ang clipping system para hindi pumula yung signal, once kasi na pumula un sunog ang speaker ninyo.
Sir Anong amp ang inaadjust para hindi mag cliip what brand?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: mixx on August 08, 2011, 01:33:02 PM
yung crell nag susunog yun ng speaker once na mag clip.... na experience na to ng friend ko malas nga e puro jbl pa naman yung subs nya.....go with sounstandard na lng or better yet qsc rmx series
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 08, 2011, 01:47:55 PM
yung crell nag susunog yun ng speaker once na mag clip.... na experience na to ng friend ko malas nga e puro jbl pa naman yung subs nya.....go with sounstandard na lng or better yet qsc rmx series
Noted sir wala na sa list ko ang crell, am going to raon to look around kung may mas ok pa sa soundstandard kung wala na sa sound standard na ako thank you sir
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: hapshay on August 08, 2011, 02:10:29 PM
sound quest ca 24 ok din 1250W per channel at 8 ohms
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Glennox on August 08, 2011, 03:40:11 PM
Sir kung balak niyo bumili ng c18 650el suggestion ko lang wag niyo nang gamitin sa crell25 over power na kasi baka madaling malaspag yung p audio sayang yung spk gamitan mo lang nang mababang wattage na amp madali lang i drive ang p audio
...Tama ka bossing...ginagamit lang namin ACM M2800.2 at labas na ang bayo ng c18 1200w namin...efficient kasi mga P audio compared sa China-made...,, :wink:
Sir mas maganda naman talaga Kung 1 amp 2 speaker ang gamit... Pero Hindi lahat may budget...syempre makakatipid pag 1 amp 4 speakers... Minsan nakikita ko pa nga 6 speakers gamit eh...in my opinion sir kahit CA16 kaya na yung speaker nyo Kung 2 speaker Lang i drive ... Nakatipid ka pa...
...2 CA18 mas ok bossing...,, :wink:
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: audioexpert on August 09, 2011, 01:34:32 PM
sir paheras din ba ang circuits nang crell , soundquest or soundstandard o mukha lang ang parehas?
Sir audiomaster....Sa front panel Lang magkaparehas ang crell and sound quest...magkaiba circuit nila...
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yahu on August 10, 2011, 11:42:13 PM
Sa harap lng mgkaparehas ang crell,soundquest pero loob mgkakaiba.oem ng mackie ang soundquest kya mas confident ako at efficient bumayo ng p audio c18el ko.its good kc di man ngclip at 4ohms.... un crell hmmm e di ko alam kc ngsusunog ng speaker dc out nga kung baga.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: audioexpert on August 11, 2011, 09:52:46 AM
dinagyang 2011 smoking speaker
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 11, 2011, 11:33:50 AM
mga sir, mas maganda cguro alamin ntin kung paano ba nag ddc out ang isang power amps ,saan ba ito nanggagaling ,ano ba ang dahilan kung bakit nag ddc out ang isang amps,,at ang pinaka mahalaga kung paano ito maiiwasan,,,,wag po tayong mag fucos lang doon sa sinasabi nilang dc power n lumalabas sa isang power amps..kung tutuong nagsusunog ng speaker ang crell pag nag ki clip..e view po ntin ung mga nka apload n vids ng mga taga iloilo sa youtube..kung makikita ntin e halos nka steady na nga ung lights ng mga clipping signal ng amps...at madaming gumagamit nito sa iloilo pinang ba batle nila kc tested na ito ,,wala nmang madaming tumatangkilik sa isang bagay kung hindi maganda ang reviews nito,,lexus at crell sikat yan sa iloilo..binibirit talaga nila ung amps pra maipakita na malaks ung soundsystem nila,,,,
usually sir nag ddc out ang mga amps pag clipping na ang signal nila, ang waveform kasi ng audio is sinewave, pag nag clip ang amp nagiging square na yung peak nya(dc), so yun ang cause. actually wala naman problema kung gagamitin natin yung mga china clones as as wag lng natin bibiritin, medyo dinadaya kasi ng chinese yung mga clipping level ng amp nila para tumaas ang power level.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: barracks01 on August 12, 2011, 06:15:37 AM
Sa harap lng mgkaparehas ang crell,soundquest pero loob mgkakaiba.oem ng mackie ang soundquest kya mas confident ako at efficient bumayo ng p audio c18el ko.its good kc di man ngclip at 4ohms.... un crell hmmm e di ko alam kc ngsusunog ng speaker dc out nga kung baga.
B0z wat d0 y0u mean - 0em ng mackie anG s0undquest?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yahu on August 12, 2011, 09:51:02 PM
my friend in china told me na the factory that produces soundquest are actually contracting with mackie to produce their oem product power amp
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: tjlimjoco on August 12, 2011, 09:58:36 PM
Sir mas nauna ang crell sa market... Lately Lang ang sound quest....parehas naman ginaya ang model no. Sa crest audio...Magkaibang iba ang laman ng Soundquest and crell... Sino nagsabi sa iyo na sound quest nauna and ginaya ng crell?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yahu on August 12, 2011, 11:40:58 PM
Sir mas nauna ang crell sa market... Lately Lang ang sound quest....parehas naman ginaya ang model no. Sa crest audio...Magkaibang iba ang laman ng Soundquest and crell... Sino nagsabi sa iyo na sound quest nauna and ginaya ng crell?
sir space jam, ako yung nagsabi. sensya na mali information naibigay sa akin kaya yun ang nasabi ko kay sir mants. tinext ako ngayon, parang ganito yata ang sequence. first was soundstandard, and then sumunod yung crell and then sinundan naman ng soundquest. sorry for the mistake
@sir mants pasensya na po at mali yung naibigay kong info regarding kung sino nauna. senysa na uli
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: spacejam on August 12, 2011, 11:51:51 PM
Yes lahat sila nag copy sa model number ng crest audio... Pero ang laman eh Hindi nila na copy...
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 13, 2011, 12:30:22 PM
Hindi parehas ang dalawang amp mas marami ang mosfet trasistor ang crest audio sa crell 2 pcs lang per ch . Ang layo ng dalawa hindi magkaparehas ang circuits
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: mixx on August 13, 2011, 01:07:09 PM
cguro as a rule chinese amps are rated 10-20% below their published specs, cguro kung sa specs nya is 1000W@ 8ohms in real life nsa 800-900W lng sya?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 13, 2011, 01:14:20 PM
Sir hindl naman lahat ng china amp ganyan pero maraming gumagawa ng ganyan double pa nga 400w lang gagawin 800w naka post pa nga dto sa philmusic . :evil:
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 13, 2011, 02:04:13 PM
Sir crell and lexus are the same circuits sana kung mayron kayong picture ng lexus paki post para makita natin yung 1500 thanks po
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: mix on August 14, 2011, 03:33:27 AM
Yes lahat sila nag copy sa model number ng crest audio... Pero ang laman eh Hindi nila na copy...
ang alam ko jan sir iisa lng yan iniba-iba lng nila ang tatak pra mkaiwas sa repair at warranty kng bga pgnabili mo na after 5 yrs sabhin sayo,',ay sir wala n yn model n yon npalitan na ng bago.' tapos ang laki p ng daya ng specs.kumbaga 'disposable 'kc parts di na available .
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: tjlimjoco on August 14, 2011, 08:02:14 AM
Sir hindl naman lahat ng china amp ganyan pero maraming gumagawa ng ganyan double pa nga 400w lang gagawin 800w naka post pa nga dto sa philmusic . :evil:
ang alam ko jan sir iisa lng yan iniba-iba lng nila ang tatak pra mkaiwas sa repair at warranty kng bga pgnabili mo na after 5 yrs sabhin sayo,',ay sir wala n yn model n yon npalitan na ng bago.' tapos ang laki p ng daya ng specs.kumbaga 'disposable 'kc parts di na available .
NaalaLa k0 tul0y yung amP namin dati na MusikF0cus :cry:
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: audioexpert on August 14, 2011, 09:39:35 AM
ang alam ko jan sir iisa lng yan iniba-iba lng nila ang tatak pra mkaiwas sa repair at warranty kng bga pgnabili mo na after 5 yrs sabhin sayo,',ay sir wala n yn model n yon npalitan na ng bago.' tapos ang laki p ng daya ng specs.kumbaga 'disposable 'kc parts di na available .
NaalaLa k0 tul0y yung amP namin dati na MusikF0cus cry
Naalala ko rin yung ORG power amp ko nawala din bigla sa market, ang sabi nila sa akin phase out na.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yan on August 14, 2011, 11:04:46 AM
Aren't Musicfocus and ORG belong to the same distributor? One of my friend has 2 units of defective Musicfocus amp and the distributor just told him that brand is already phase out and they do not have the parts to repair them. thats it.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: tjlimjoco on August 14, 2011, 11:19:13 AM
Aren't Musicfocus and ORG belong to the same distributor? One of my friend has 2 units of defective Musicfocus amp and the distributor just told him that brand is already phase out and they do not have the parts to repair them. thats it.
B0z magkaiBa ang distribut0r - MusicF0cus pinarating ni Sir T0n-t0n Lim dati pa, yunG 0RG kay k0lin yta yan. :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yan on August 14, 2011, 11:28:35 AM
my friend bought Musicfocus directlly from kolin
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: tjlimjoco on August 14, 2011, 12:00:15 PM
TY B0z sa inf0. Sana naman maGing resp0nsible anG K0lin hindi lanG basta nagbeBenta. Kawawa naman anG peranG pinaghirapan ng bumiLi.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: yan on August 14, 2011, 06:05:40 PM
i can not undertand why kolin do not honored the after service of Musicfocus? does it mean that once there is problem occured on any one of their products, they will just tell the poor buyer " sorry , it's already phase out, can not repair it anymore" how irresponsible.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: mixx on August 14, 2011, 06:53:52 PM
thats the sad part in aquiring these products medyo panget yung after sales support nya, for me i admire the support given by qsc....my rmx amp got busted once supposedly i was planning to bring it to audiophile for the repair but since nag ondoy noon madami daw silang for repair and baka abutin ng 6mos daw yung amp ko. i went online to qsc support (forum)....and guess what step by step nilang hinanap yung problema thru exchange of email lng..... yung culprit 1 capacitor costing 1 peso..... in no time ayos na yung amp ko.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: mix on August 14, 2011, 09:46:54 PM
Sino po dealer ng Sound Quest, pwede ba e upgrade ung mga amps n nbili noong 2009,,kc ung kaibigan ko meron sya Sound Quest CA32 1500watts 8 ohms,,eh madaling mag clip khit sa dual mid w 600 watts speaker nag ki klip din...sayang nman ung lakas n 1500 watts sa 8 ohms kung d nya kaya ung dual n 600 watts,,,sa sub mas lalo daw n d kaya,, dual ung mga sub nya with sd18el kya palaging 4 ohms ang load d pwede ang 8 ohms kc dual,,gusto n nga nya e benta eh....any idea mga sir,,
Sir Mants, pls inform your friend who has soundquest CA-32 that he can bring his units to BTS trading for upgrading. total free of charge. And we will test and demo his units while he is there for his satisfaction. my contact no. is 2156465/ 09178949274. :-)
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: bHONGz09 on August 19, 2011, 12:06:51 PM
mga sir OT konti,...ok din po ba tumunog soundstandard sa LA series?ano pinagkaiba nito sa CA series?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: tjlimjoco on August 20, 2011, 07:32:02 AM
Hindi parehas ang dalawang amp mas marami ang mosfet trasistor ang crest audio sa crell 2 pcs lang per ch . Ang layo ng dalawa hindi magkaparehas ang circuits
sir ano sa tingin mo dito sa FET2000 ng Live,according to them it has mosfet transistors?
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on August 22, 2011, 06:42:44 PM
sir tumawag jan yong frend ko but nag alangan sya kung e papa upgrade nya yong soundquest nya ,kc ang sabi daw ng nkausap nya jan e yong gagawin nyong pag a upgrade ng Soundquest ay tataasan lang yong input sensitivity at e adjust yong clipping ng amps at wlang papalitan n parts,,,,is this true,,
Delikado sa amp kung ganoon lang ang gagawin , they are just pushing the amp to the limit , madaling makasira ng amp
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Audiomaster on November 08, 2011, 12:07:40 AM
sir tumawag jan yong frend ko but nag alangan sya kung e papa upgrade nya yong soundquest nya ,kc ang sabi daw ng nkausap nya jan e yong gagawin nyong pag a upgrade ng Soundquest ay tataasan lang yong input sensitivity at e adjust yong clipping ng amps at wlang papalitan n parts,,,,is this true,,
sir ,your friend say he will bring the unit for check up ,but he never show up how can we determine what is the problem of the amplifier.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: mants on November 09, 2011, 09:41:05 PM
sir ,your friend say he will bring the unit for check up ,but he never show up how can we determine what is the problem of the amplifier.
ah ok sir.tnks
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: Ja! on January 21, 2012, 12:25:26 AM
orig po ba yung sound standard ca20 na nasa gitna yung powerswitch? yung nsa website po kasi ng saeaudio eh nsa right side na yung switch,o yun na ang labas ngayon? salamat po.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: soundtech on January 24, 2012, 02:10:27 PM
orig po ba yung sound standard ca20 na nasa gitna yung powerswitch? yung nsa website po kasi ng saeaudio eh nsa right side na yung switch,o yun na ang labas ngayon? salamat po.
Dati kasi nasa Gitna yun switch ng CA series. ginawa ng Sound standard, nilapat nila sa right side sa kadahilanan may lumabas na fake CA series. sa madaling salita, peke yun CA na nasa gitna yun switch.
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: tjlimjoco on February 13, 2012, 01:45:24 PM
0k daw mga b0z yung bag0ng S0und Standard CA20 sa bag0ng P-Audi0 SD18-1700el. 4 na grup0 na kapag try na. Sa Metr0tech Ra0n nakabili. Lakas daw talaGa. Fr0m Crell CA20 sila nanggaling. :wave:
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: goody on February 15, 2012, 02:12:18 PM
0k daw mga b0z yung bag0ng S0und Standard CA20 sa bag0ng P-Audi0 SD18-1700el. 4 na grup0 na kapag try na. Sa Metr0tech Ra0n nakabili. Lakas daw talaGa. Fr0m Crell CA20 sila nanggaling. :wave:
+1
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: soundtech on February 21, 2012, 02:21:37 PM
0k daw mga b0z yung bag0ng S0und Standard CA20 sa bag0ng P-Audi0 SD18-1700el. 4 na grup0 na kapag try na. Sa Metr0tech Ra0n nakabili. Lakas daw talaGa. Fr0m Crell CA20 sila nanggaling. :wave:
+1 soundstandard ca-18 for p. audio c18 650el and soundstandard ca-20 for p audio SD18-1700el
Title: Re: Crell CA20 or Soundstandard CA20
Post by: tjlimjoco on February 23, 2012, 05:13:07 PM
+1 soundstandard ca-18 for p. audio c18 650el and soundstandard ca-20 for p audio SD18-1700el
Napansin ng mga katropa namin na kapag sa matagalan na gamit, hindi nangangamoy ang speakers sa Soundstandard Ca20. Sa Crell Ca20 kasi kapag uminit na parang may sinusunog sa speakers :-o