About guitar recording...

[abyssinianson]

1. Use what you have access to and learn their limitations.
2. Pining for something you don't have or can't afford is not going to help you get something on record - even if the saying the cheaper stuff isn't good at all. If you have a means to get a sound recorded - any means - do it. I started with a boom box way, way, way before I even ventured to tape and DAW recording methodology. I still have a hand held tape recorder I keep to strum guitar chord progressions and hummed melodies.
3. Don't say can't. Try everything you have access to and learn from the physics of it because knowing the basics will help you use better equipment later on.

[starfugger]

hey that's pretty good xtaxi

haven't really heard the sans amp SANS AMP, LOL.  very nice did you use some sort of room reverb for this?

[Phil]

okay...here's a sample of a miced amp.

setup is...guitar...amp...shure sm57..... Tascam US-224...Sonar 3

...all guitars are miced.....no bass...just added a drum loop to make it interesting.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=462734&songID=4705552

[x_taxi]

starfugger -

tnx.  it was fun tryin to figure out how to make the guitar sound bigger.  tryin to remember what i used for that.  hehe.  think it's one of the reverb presets from the xenyx fx.  actually forgot to put that in my prior post.  also, i think i used the speaker edge setting sa sansamp.

phil -

nice playin bro!  did you use plug-ins in the mixdown for that? or was it an effects/multifx pedal?  great guitar tone.

[Phil]

phil -

nice playin bro!  did you use plug-ins in the mixdown for that? or was it an effects/multifx pedal?  great guitar tone.

thanks.... all the guitars are recorded dry...walang pedal o effects sa harap o effects loop ng amp. I added a tiny bit of delay(plug in sa software) sa lead guitar lang...to create ambience..make the lead guitar fuller.

[skunkyfunk]

starfugger -

tnx.  it was fun tryin to figure out how to make the guitar sound bigger.  tryin to remember what i used for that.  hehe.  think it's one of the reverb presets from the xenyx fx.  actually forgot to put that in my prior post.  also, i think i used the speaker edge setting sa sansamp.

phil -

nice playin bro!  did you use plug-ins in the mixdown for that? or was it an effects/multifx pedal?  great guitar tone.

You cannot get big sounds with a crappy amp or a half-assed modeller.  I've seen nice modelling amps but if you rely on digital multi-fx modellers, that would still call for serious amp choices to make them sound great.

[KitC]

You cannot get big sounds with a crappy amp or a half-assed modeller.

Actually, you can but it will take some doing and a lot of imagination. No different than what they did with a 10-watt amp in the old days. One of the secrets is to split the guitar signal and record it before it hits the amp; that way, you can "re-amp" the guitar track when you get a "serious amp".

[KitC]

Just to add, I fully understand the need to record with the best you can get your hands on. I, for one, like to use the best samples and keyboards I can use for my compositions, but that is not always an option; most of us cannot afford the best. Then again, that isn't always what we need. All too often, we underutilize what we already have and have not explored fully what our gear can really do - we only know the obvious.

For example, I once downloaded a .pcg file for my X3 where one particular patch went into a feedback loop. I thought I knew my X3 inside out, but checking the parameters showed no obvious reason for the feedback, and I couldn't replicate the condition on another patch either. What's the anecdote with all this? It only shows that while I may have a deep understanding of my gear, I haven't fully explored it either. The same with most of us I'm afraid. That's what separates the real pathfinders and innovators; they work with what they have and go beyond it; they think outside the box.

[abyssinianson]

You cannot get big sounds with a crappy amp or a half-assed modeller.

Actually, you can but it will take some doing and a lot of imagination. No different than what they did with a 10-watt amp in the old days. One of the secrets is to split the guitar signal and record it before it hits the amp; that way, you can "re-amp" the guitar track when you get a "serious amp".

Ah, the beauty of blending. I am a huge fan of this approach, always have been. I mean, use what works, you know?

[Phil]

You cannot get big sounds with a crappy amp or a half-assed modeller.

Actually, you can but it will take some doing and a lot of imagination. No different than what they did with a 10-watt amp in the old days. One of the secrets is to split the guitar signal and record it before it hits the amp; that way, you can "re-amp" the guitar track when you get a "serious amp".

AWESOME TIP, pareng Kit.  Can you PM it to me how to do it?   Honestly...being a guitar player and a tube amp owner....I think its blasphemy......I feel cheated. hehehehe...but its cool. I want to know how do it though.

[geetar_geek79]

^I think from the guitar, you split the signal to two.  One goes to the amp you record with (so you can monitor it properly).  Then one goes to a DI then to the recorder - recorded dry.  When you want to record the dry track using a different amp, you take the dry track, use a reamping box, then send it to an amp, then record it again without you playing the same track over again.  It's a really nice studio trick.  I still have to try it myself, though.  The trick here is having the reamp thingymajig.

[jakobspiral]

about guitar recording...

HISS

how do you get rid of it?

mods? noise removing software? noise gates?

i plug my sansamp directly into my jamlab.

also... HISS in vocal recording.

i tried plugging my art mp directly into my jamlab, sounds ok. but... hiss....

the art mp vocal preamp naturally has hiss. maybe after a few mods i can have the the hiss lowered. but there would still be hiss, right?

ms. starfugger, i checked your website... wow. great sound on the demo song! , you use an art mp as listed in your utensils... how did you remove the hiss?

i don't think it's the jamlab because i tried earphones on both sansamp and art mp, but they still have hiss... malala noise nung art mp. minimal hiss nung sansamp.

i don't think it's my SG or at2020, it sounds hiss free on stage...

help, anyone?

[rakrakan]

just my 2 cent here guys, baka makatulong.

There's no hard and fast rule. Use what you have. Listen. Learn how to use what you have. Going through simulators is quick and convenient, it can also be affordable rather than mic'ing an amp. But mic'ing an amp presents a very physical appreciation of the guitar sound. It's really up to you and your band (and budget) what you use.

for me, the most important part in recording guitars or any instrument is the musician - the player. I've recorded direct & mic'd amps, I've seen great players make great sounds and music out of crappy instruments. Likewise, I've also seen players make crappy sounds out of fantastic instruments.

Once you have the playing and musicianship covered - the quest turns to the "SOUND".

Then there's the song. the music. Like what some of the posts here have suggested - check the guitar sound in context of the music. serve the song.

good luck to your quest recording great guitar tones.

[KitC]

AWESOME TIP, pareng Kit.  Can you PM it to me how to do it?   Honestly...being a guitar player and a tube amp owner....I think its blasphemy......I feel cheated. hehehehe...but its cool. I want to know how do it though.

Phil,

Here's a complete applications list, complete with diagrams, from Reamp.com. Here's a pic of the reamp devices:

[KitC]

@jakobspiral - somewhere along the line in your signal path, you have increased gain beyond the point that you are now amplifying noise. This is among the principles of gain staging; you adjust the output of one device so that the device that succeeds it in the chain does not apply a tremendous amount of signal amplification. Whenever you apply a lot of gain, you also amplify noise (and hiss) along with it. Impedance mismatching, and mixing -10dBV/+4dBu equipment haphazardly are often the causes. All electronic gear have some form of hiss, but the really well designed ones have very high SNR ratios that all but eliminate hiss and noise. That why I have my eye on Baldo's Grace Design 201! 

[starfugger]

hello jakobspiral.  thanks. 

i do use the ART tube MP,. however not on the demo i have below.  that's what i often say about entry-level preamps versus the really good ones.  most well designed preamps have very low to almost no hiss at all   the pre's i used on the demo were joe meek vc1 and aphex 1100a tube pre's.

do follow kit's advice about gain staging.  this should be the fastest and easiest cure.  if that does not do the job, KitC has a couple of mods for the ART tube MP i think   you may however use noise removal softwares like ones from sonic foundry or waves but they are heavy on the pocket. 

also, you'll find that using pedals like the metal zone will introduce a lot of humming to the signal.  i suggest you simply saturate your amp's tubes to get hum free distortion   hope this helps. 

KitC i think there's also one from Radial.  i want one of these! 

[jakobspiral]

to Hazel:

whoa... entry level = hiss, k i'll remember that. , next time, i'll test the unit first before i buy it... (i hope my art mp can be fixed... if not i'll just buy an avalon... kidding.  )


to KitC:

hmm... i guess my at2020 must be low output (that's weird, i thought condensers were supposed to be loud...) since it's the only thing before my art mp in the signal chain.

my signal chain:

at2020 -> art mp -> jamlab

or

guitar -> sansamp -> jamlab

hmm, you do mods... great! can i have your contact #?

also, is there a thread compiling contact #'s and names of people who do mods? like KitC, BAMF, etc. i tried messaging BAMF once, his mailbox was full...

[KitC]

Not all condensers have a hot output; some are hotter than others. Not sure about your Tube MP but ART's preamps usually have a +20 dB gain button, try engaging that. I've also read about replacing the cheap chinese 12ax7 tube that comes with these ARTs. You could try using an NOS Mullard or Telefunken ECC83. One more thing... check the underside of the ART. There are 4 screws that connect the upper body to the lower plate. I've read that one of the screws is overly long and can come in contact with the power supply. If you loosen that screw just a little, it will break contact and make the ART much more quieter.

[starfugger]

to Hazel:

whoa... entry level = hiss, k i'll remember that. , next time, i'll test the unit first before i buy it... (i hope my art mp can be fixed... if not i'll just buy an avalon... kidding.  )


to KitC:

hmm... i guess my at2020 must be low output (that's weird, i thought condensers were supposed to be loud...) since it's the only thing before my art mp in the signal chain.

my signal chain:

at2020 -> art mp -> jamlab

or

guitar -> sansamp -> jamlab

hmm, you do mods... great! can i have your contact #?

also, is there a thread compiling contact #'s and names of people who do mods? like KitC, BAMF, etc. i tried messaging BAMF once, his mailbox was full...

lol i didnt mean to put it that way.  just that in my experience these more affordable pre's exhibit more noise when compared side by side to the ... um ... less affordable ones, hehe.  i wish it were not so. but there are good affordable pre's out there like the sytek (which can be bought in 4 channel configuration) or the RNP.  ive not had any experience with these but i have my eye on them. 

yes BAMF might be able to help.  also you may want to dig around for mr. lito bote's number.

hope this helps.

[abyssinianson]

starfugger, the RNP is really nice, simple, effective and clean. I would not hesitate to recommend anything from FMR, especially their new limiting amp. I had a chance to try it out through a demo and the thing ROCKS like the dickens! Ballsy, ballsy little thing.

[The D]

Anyone here tried the Line 6 guitar port rifftracker? Yung daw yung pinakamadaling way para mag record sa pc.

[jakobspiral]

KitC,

i took out the screws and taped the bottom to the top. it worked! definitely less noise now. Thanks!


Hazel, in that case, i've got my sights set on the Joemeek OneQ.

well, all i'm gonna be recording in my room is vocals and guitar anyway, so might as well invest on a good preamp!

for everything else i'm gonna be recording with bandmates, i'd rather go to a professional recording studio.


The D,

i tried that sa states, medyo may latency pero di naman masyado compared to native instruments guitar rig... (or maybe di lang pala naayos nung store yung software settings... anyway) it really is very, very, very convenient compared to other solutions. plug and play talaga. hassle free.

i didn't like the sound though... but a lot of people love line 6, so you might like the sound too.

[KitC]

You don't have to take out all screws.  Just find the one that comes into contact with a transformer, I think. All you have to do is file off a millimeter or 2 from the end; or maybe add a couple of washers. Or you could just remove that single screw. Wouldn't want to have the bottom fall off when you pick the ART up.

[xjepoyx]

medyo may latency pero di naman masyado compared to native instruments guitar rig... (or maybe di lang pala naayos nung store yung software settings...

sound ng NI GR eh halos similar sa mga stomp boxes ng boss. somewhat 50% digital and 50% analog ang tunog thats why have acquired it. Anyway back yo ur problem sa latency? gaano kataas? we usually get as low as 6ms lang. try tweaking some setting sa audio settings and NIGR control panel.

[starfugger]

.... Wouldn't want to have the bottom fall off when you pick the ART up.

ehehe, that's what i thought Kit.  hmmm..... parang nainspire ako dito.... ano kaya i-mod ko ART and replace the tube... wonder how different it would sound with a NOS tube

@abyss have you heard about the sytek pre by mr mike stoica?  how does it compare to the RNP?  thanks.