Melodyne Direct Note Access Beta testing - Awesome Program!!!

[RATBUMAN]

Finally the new melodyne editor is going to be released by Novemeber 2009.  I am participating as a Beta tester for the new melodyne software.  So far so good - The program is awesome !! I've never seen any editing like this before. Chords could be broken down to each particular note for editing.  Most editing software including Melodyne in the past could  only edit single note phrases (like bass, single guitar lead lines and vocals).With the new Melodyne editor, you could edit polyphonic material like guitar chords and choruses. I'm not sure if Autotune (Antares) has this technology. If not I'm pretty sure Melodyne would become the leading editing software.  I sound like  salesman for Celemony but I'm not. I'm just blown away by the capabilities of this awesome software.


See link: http://www.celemony.com/cms/index.php?id=editor_beta

[skunkyfunk]

What blows me away is the fact that this software will make a lot of people care less about not tuning or intonating a guitar well, and much worse, make awful singers have more curative means to patch up for their deficiencies.

[RATBUMAN]

What blows me away is the fact that this software will make a lot of people care less about not tuning or intonating a guitar well, and much worse, make awful singers have more curative means to patch up for their deficiencies.

An artist skill is usually best assessed during live performances. I am sure that even well renowned artists and musicians would have their studio tracks edited by using one of these editing programs. On the other hand, the studio engineer's skill is further enhanced and improved by using these programs. The client artist would be happier if his music is greatly improved and corrected by the sound engineer. A lot of clients look for this kind of magic that a good recording studio can offer.

[abyssinianson]

An artist skill is usually best assessed during live performances. I am sure that even well renowned artists and musicians would have their studio tracks edited by using one of these editing programs. On the other hand, the studio engineer's skill is further enhanced and improved by using these programs. The client artist would be happier if his music is greatly improved and corrected by the sound engineer. A lot of clients look for this kind of magic that a good recording studio can offer.

i disagree. what a person does on stage is supposed to be applicable in the studio, specifically, the studio is a place a person can do a lot of things that they can't do live - layer tracks, mangle audio and experiment endlessly; a freedom for creativity, if you will. this freedom, however, does not extend to not being able to sing in key, play and maintain an intonated guitar and know what you are doing to prevent wasting other people's time. just because you aren't on stage doesn't mean you are not expected to sing on key as much as possible because it can be fixed with melodyne or autotune - this is a lot like the fallacy that one doesn't need to take time setting up a recording environment because it can be fixed "at the board." in fact, i know a few professional studios which discourage the use of melodyne or autotune if whoever is singing can't cut it. can't play? get lessons, can't sing? get a coach. don't have a properly setup guitar? take it to a tech. nudging an odd note here and there is one thing......not being able to do what you're supposed to as a musician is quite another, there is absolutely no substitute for being able to sing or play properly - that is what sets apart a professional and a hack. i can do my best to engineer a good sounding take, sure, but don't expect me to work a miracle and turn a turd into a great product....i think Jesus could be working out of Ocean Way and still have a helluva job trying to make that happen..lol

[abusound]

I definitely agree with Abyss. Let me just add a few thoughts.

U2 does not bring their "Live performances" into the studio. It's the other way around. They bring their studio sound in their live performances. Imagine if Bono, Edge, Larry, and Adam, depended on Auto-Tune or Melodyne, I don't think they would be able to have sold out concerts where ever they go. Do they rely on tools? Of Course they do, but only to bring life to their own artistry.

The mere fact that we already have the tools here in the Philippines and yet we still sound like crap is because the other end is not fixed. Studios invest in all these products, gears and what not, but on the artist side, no discipline, no care on what they would want to achieve, doesn't even bother to listen to constructive criticism. What would you expect? Engineers can do magic, correct, but only to a certain extent. In the end, it's still G-I-G-O.

You can have Pro Tools, Auto Tune, Melodyne, Logic, Etc. in your studio, and you may become the master for all of this. But if the artist who will be using these tools doesn't have the heart and doesn't care at all, never expect a Grammy or an Oscar, or maybe an MMFF.

[abyssinianson]

I definitely agree with Abyss. Let me just add a few thoughts.

U2 does not bring their "Live performances" into the studio. It's the other way around. They bring their studio sound in their live performances. Imagine if Bono, Edge, Larry, and Adam, depended on Auto-Tune or Melodyne, I don't think they would be able to have sold out concerts where ever they go. Do they rely on tools? Of Course they do, but only to bring life to their own artistry.

The mere fact that we already have the tools here in the Philippines and yet we still sound like crap is because the other end is not fixed. Studios invest in all these products, gears and what not, but on the artist side, no discipline, no care on what they would want to achieve, doesn't even bother to listen to constructive criticism. What would you expect? Engineers can do magic, correct, but only to a certain extent. In the end, it's still G-I-G-O.

You can have Pro Tools, Auto Tune, Melodyne, Logic, Etc. in your studio, and you may become the master for all of this. But if the artist who will be using these tools doesn't have the heart and doesn't care at all, never expect a Grammy or an Oscar, or maybe an MMFF.

i think an aspect of your point was brought up in discussion not too long ago about how the creative process and chain of production "command" goes about in studios in the PI. how and where in the creative process can improvements be made to produce great improvements in the sound of the records made in the PI? someone brought up an issue not too long ago about producers and engineers bending backwards to artists that want to use awful sounding gear at the expense of the engineer's desire to make sounding recording using better versions of what the artist is currently using. i am a bit hazy about this so, please, correct me if i am wrong...it has been a long day at the hospital..lol.

bottom line is: you pay folks to make you sound good but everyone has to do their part to contribute to a great sounding record.

[RATBUMAN]

.... freedom, however, does not extend to not being able to sing in key, play and maintain an intonated guitar and know what you are doing to prevent wasting other people's time. just because you aren't on stage doesn't mean you are not expected to sing on key as much as possible because it can be fixed with melodyne or autotune - this is a lot like the fallacy that one doesn't need to take time setting up a recording environment because it can be fixed "at the board." in fact, i know a few professional studios which discourage the use of melodyne or autotune if whoever is singing can't cut it. can't play? get lessons, can't sing? get a coach. don't have a properly setup guitar? take it to a tech. nudging an odd note here and there is one thing......not being able to do what you're supposed to as a musician is quite another, there is absolutely no substitute for being able to sing or play properly - that is what sets apart a professional and a hack. i can do my best to engineer a good sounding take, sure, but don't expect me to work a miracle and turn a turd into a great product....i think Jesus could be working out of Ocean Way and still have a helluva job trying to make that happen..lol

Why would you go to a recording studio in the first place if you can not sing or play a guitar or any instrument??  At least you have a certain amount of talent for you to want to record yourself. Also, people who go to recording studios are not always professional musicians. I believe most recording studios would offers their services to whoever wants to as long as they pay. How the hell would they stay in business especially in this economic times if they end up being snobs and cater   only to PRO musicians. A month ago, I brought my friend to record his vocals at Sound Creations studio. I had to make a Video recording for our High school reunion. We are not professionals but we were in a band before. I can play guitar and my friend has a fairly decent voice. As I only had a few hours to spare ( I was leaving for the US the next day), the vocal track recordings were not the best. I had to use Melodyne to tune the vocals and add background vocals.  In fact this video was posted in this forum (http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,148715.0.html)  I would never  present that studio cut to my friends without editing the vocals.  

I definitely agree with Abyss. Let me just add a few thoughts.

U2 does not bring their "Live performances" into the studio. It's the other way around. They bring their studio sound in their live performances. Imagine if Bono, Edge, Larry, and Adam, depended on Auto-Tune or Melodyne, I don't think they would be able to have sold out concerts where ever they go. Do they rely on tools? Of Course they do, but only to bring life to their own artistry.

Precisely my point - An artist skill/talent is best seen during live performances as there is no way to correct their mistakes during a live show.

[abyssinianson]

Why would you go to a recording studio in the first place if you can not sing or play a guitar or any instrument??  At least you have a certain amount of talent for you to want to record yourself. Also, people who go to recording studios are not always professional musicians. I believe most recording studios would offers their services to whoever wants to as long as they pay. How the hell would they stay in business especially in this economic times if they end up being snobs and cater   only to PRO musicians. A month ago, I brought my friend to record his vocals at Sound Creations studio. I to make a Video recording for our High school reunion. We are not professionals but we were in a band before. I can play guitar and my friend has a fairly decent voice. As I only had a few hours to spare ( I was leaving for the US the next day), the vocal track recordings were not the best. I had to use Melodyne to tune the vocals and add background vocals.  In fact this video was posted in this forum (http://talk.philmusic.com/board/index.php/topic,148715.0.html)  I would never  present that studio cut to my friends without editing the vocals.  Precisely my point - An artist skill/talent is best seen during live performances as there is no way to correct their mistakes during a live show.

do not misunderstand. i never said only pro- musicians can record at a recording facility. i didn't explicitly say anything of the sort, rather, i did say (or infer) that one should know what they are doing when they go into a studio because in this day and age when autotune and melodyne are so easy to reach for, the concept of using tuning tools becomes a crutch rather than a tool to lightly use. note that "knowing" what to musically do can encompass amateurs as well as pros, hence my generalized statement, and preparedness is definitely not snobbery, it is just being on top of your game. thing is, if i got a buck everytime i heard a person say,"hmm...i can't seem to reach these notes...can we fix and just transpose them in autotune?" i'd be filthy rich. it happens, man, and i wouldn't be making such a fuss if it never did. my take home message is: know what you are doing and don't fall into the trap of relying on autotune as a tool to fix what you can't do consistently as a musician. this might not apply to you but there are others that heavily abuse tuning tools to make themselves sound better than they can pull off live. i know this is a no brainer of a statement but, really, if there weren't such awesome examples (sarcasm) to make its obvious statement a necessity, i wouldn't be pushing it with such emphasis. now i don't have a problem with light use of autotune like you did to probably correct some notes here and there but there are lots of folks that use it way, way too much to basically produce a track that they can't perform! why? who knows...all i know is that because the tool exists, folks will use it to fabricate music that they can't otherwise produce live which is why you see tons of folks that end up sounding good on record but sound horrible live.

now you asked why someone would go into a studio without knowing how to sing or play...well, to tell ya the truth, it happens - all too often. you'd be surprised at the amount of stuff that passes through studio doors on a regular basis. ever see the "blooper clips" on American Idol showing blokes who can't sing? i mean, really...really, can't sing. entertaining those types of folks is a fairly regular occurrence and listening to it is pure hell. i often wonder exactly where the disconnect exists between what these people "think" they sound like and how they "actually" sound to others because i fear for the welfare of these people if they work up the nerve to get on stage. and yes, most recording facilities do entertain folks as long as they pay but, man, i dunno about you...some gigs are just not worth it if you have to suffer through numerous takes with a singer that sounds like Jabba the Hut with laryngitis who is trying to sing a pop song.

i didn't mean to offend so sorry if my statement touched a nerve but i was just stating a perspective that stems from the experience i've had from being behind the faders for a while. granted, i haven't had as much years under my belt as the rest of our illustrious crew on here (mikep, kit, hazel and the bunch) but i've seen a few things happen over the years which has made me value musicianship so much more in an era where the computer can easily cover up what should be done right through years of hard work, training and dedication to musicianship.