Why some recording studio engineers are posers

[riffoff]

They have vintage amps genuine mics original softwares nice soundproof But still the quality of their recording
is far from their gadgets name and price

Sorry if I will offend someone here I will not give up names but I cant stand their "pagpapanngap"

thats true naman kapag tinanong mo sila all about recording mixing techniques and processes they all have the answers

but applying them to their product nasaan??? nasaan na yung mga sinasabi nilang ganito ang gagawin para maging ganito output and then ganito para ganyan may mga pinopost pa silang graphs waves etc. etc. na ganito ang mga nangyayari sa frequency kapag e2 ang ginamit mo.
and they keep on telling na may ganito akong cab amp, I have bought a new vintage amp but the clients they had hindi satisfied actually hindi lang sa hindi nasatisfied pangit inshort. My friend has a band named M _ _ _ _ _ L who recorded to a studio owned by someone na sinasabi ko na posero. okay nAMAN ang recording medyo napatagal kaya medyo malaki ang binayaran ng friend ko  okay lang sana kasi mukha naman magaling si prof. sound engr. because of his words na pambobola lang pala nagexpect ang friend ko na ok yung magiging tunog nung kanta dahil nga sa mga pinagmamayabang nyang gamit at after makuha yung final mix para gamitin sa isang indie film. nadismaya sila dahil eto ba yung binaran namin parang hindi minix parang pinakanta yung vocals sa loob ng banyo in short raw ang tunog hindi naman siya tunog na parang hindi marunong yung nagrecord but the mixing anlayo sa ieexpect mo sa mga gamit at mga sinasabi niya dito


Im not posting this para siraan ang isang tao dahil wala naman akong binaggit kung sino yun gusto ko lang malaman bakit may mga ganun kayabang magsalita dito and then yung mga nagwa nila  hindi katulad ng sinasabi nila and gusto ko lang maging advice din to sa mga gustong magrecording sa mga recording studio eh pumili kayo ng totoo hindi lang sa brand ng gamit kundi totoo din sa nagagawa nila sana hindi  kayo maging katulad ng friend ko sobrang regret ng kaibigan ko.  Choose wisely wag magpadala sa mga napaktitindi nilang term maaring alam nila ang ibig sabihin pero hindi nila maapply madali lang mlman yung mga terms nila andyan si google oh.

peace !!

[chromeknive]

Kung hindi ka man masaya sa final product, wala kang karapatan sabihan ng "panggap" ang engineer in question.

May studio siya. May gamit. May information. May final product kang hawak.

Therefore, hindi siya nagpapanggap na engineer. Engineer siya na pwedeng hindi pa magaling at nag-aaral pa para gumaling.


Why didn't you listen to samples of the engineer's work BEFORE you decided to hire him?

Buti nga marami siyang alam e- application at results nalang ang problema.

*edit (thanks for keeping me in line sir bamf)

[abyssinianson]

lots of things to learn from this post. i have the following concerns:

1. an engineer is not a magician. they may know theory, they may have the gear but if an artist doesn't have quality stuff the result is simple - mediocre tone in ---> mediocre tone out. this is a hardcore rule. you can't make a cheap guitar sound like a D'Aquisto. as such, the blame for a mediocre or bad product does not lay fully with the engineer or even the studio owner though it is pretty hard to make any D'Aquisto sound bad (why the hell would you?)
2. if your friend went with the process of recording with the said studio, i suspect that they would have took the liberty of doing thorough research on the person's past work. if you invest lots of money in recording, you'd better be damn well prepared by knowing the process as well as the ability of the guy you are hiring.
3. your tone - i agree that production requires skill but, again, all things considered equal in the studio environment a quality preamp and quality mic will be more revealing than your cheaper varieties so what this means is...the more accurate your mic the greater the tendency you might not like what you are hearing back from the monitors if your own gear is the weakest link of the recording chain. the engineer guy is just there to record YOU and your equipment...a good engineer remains as unobtrusive as possible in the process. got good gear? then the engineer should not have to mess with your tone too much. in my experience, the best sessions i've ever done was when i had to do the least amount of stuff to capture the artist's performance. any experienced musician knows good tone and an engineer worth their salt will recognize that and take advantage of it by.....doing absolutely as little as possible.

some things to consider: what instruments were used? were they intonated? were they of good quality? were they in good condition? are they competent musicians (ie, the singer better be on key, on time and for string players, i'd better not hear errant flat or sharp notes outa nowhere)? what was the recording signal chain? what was the mic? converters used? what were the conditions of the recording environment? knowing these pieces of info can tell seasoned engineers exactly what your problem is because it'll stick out like Lindsay Lohan at a Carmelite Nun's convention for Chastity and Purity.

all in all, i think your friend's problem boils down to expectations and miscommunication. it doesn't help them-or the studio-that they are crying over spilled milk. why didn't they bring these concerns up while they were undergoing the mixing process? i don't get why they would complain after the final product was already produced when it is a rule of thumb that they should have been in the middle of everything at all steps leading up to the production of the final product.

[BAMF]

Kung hindi ka man masaya sa final product, wala kang karapatan sabihan ng "panggap" ang engineer in question.

May studio siya. May gamit. May information. May final product kang hawak.

Therefore, hindi siya nagpapanggap na engineer. Engineer siya na pwedeng hindi pa magaling at nag-aaral pa para gumaling.


Why didn't you listen to samples of the engineer's work BEFORE you decided to hire him?

Buti nga marami siyang alam e- application at results nalang ang problema.

Kayo walang COMMON SENSE.

dahan-dahan ser. That already classifies as a personal attack.

[inigo]

Another thing to consider... when the engineer was mixing, did the band have participation, like acting as producer? I.e., Did the band direct the engineer to do stuff? Were these directions discussed between band and engineer and upon which they eventually agreed?

The engineer is, in the end, "just an engineer", doing what the producer communicates to him.

[KitC]

Easy there, riff. I know who you're referring to, but I'll keep the knowledge private.

Let's just try to keep our heads cool here.

[starfugger]

lots of things to learn from this post. i have the following concerns:

1. an engineer is not a magician. they may know theory, they may have the gear but if an artist doesn't have quality stuff the result is simple - mediocre tone in ---> mediocre tone out. this is a hardcore rule. you can't make a cheap guitar sound like a D'Aquisto. as such, the blame for a mediocre or bad product does not lay fully with the engineer or even the studio owner though it is pretty hard to make any D'Aquisto sound bad (why the hell would you?)
2. if your friend went with the process of recording with the said studio, i suspect that they would have took the liberty of doing thorough research on the person's past work. if you invest lots of money in recording, you'd better be damn well prepared by knowing the process as well as the ability of the guy you are hiring.
3. your tone - i agree that production requires skill but, again, all things considered equal in the studio environment a quality preamp and quality mic will be more revealing than your cheaper varieties so what this means is...the more accurate your mic the greater the tendency you might not like what you are hearing back from the monitors if your own gear is the weakest link of the recording chain. the engineer guy is just there to record YOU and your equipment...a good engineer remains as unobtrusive as possible in the process. got good gear? then the engineer should not have to mess with your tone too much. in my experience, the best sessions i've ever done was when i had to do the least amount of stuff to capture the artist's performance. any experienced musician knows good tone and an engineer worth their salt will recognize that and take advantage of it by.....doing absolutely as little as possible.

some things to consider: what instruments were used? were they intonated? were they of good quality? were they in good condition? are they competent musicians (ie, the singer better be on key, on time and for string players, i'd better not hear errant flat or sharp notes outa nowhere)? what was the recording signal chain? what was the mic? converters used? what were the conditions of the recording environment? knowing these pieces of info can tell seasoned engineers exactly what your problem is because it'll stick out like Lindsay Lohan at a Carmelite Nun's convention for Chastity and Purity.

all in all, i think your friend's problem boils down to expectations and miscommunication. it doesn't help them-or the studio-that they are crying over spilled milk. why didn't they bring these concerns up while they were undergoing the mixing process? i don't get why they would complain after the final product was already produced when it is a rule of thumb that they should have been in the middle of everything at all steps leading up to the production of the final product.

so true mikey. 

to the thread starter, i guess the simple solution there is if you don't like what you hear during tracking (and most likely the engineer will tell you that the sound will get much much better after mixdown), ask for a sample mix of one song.  that way you can assess whether to move on or move out.

one must know that engineers aren't magicians.  while it's true that they are able to fix a lot of issues about performance, they can only go so far when it comes to tone.  sa source parin magdedepend ang overall sound.

[skunkyfunk]

They have vintage amps genuine mics original softwares nice soundproof But still the quality of their recording
is far from their gadgets name and price

Sorry if I will offend someone here I will not give up names but I cant stand their "pagpapanngap"

thats true naman kapag tinanong mo sila all about recording mixing techniques and processes they all have the answers

but applying them to their product nasaan??? nasaan na yung mga sinasabi nilang ganito ang gagawin para maging ganito output and then ganito para ganyan may mga pinopost pa silang graphs waves etc. etc. na ganito ang mga nangyayari sa frequency kapag e2 ang ginamit mo.
and they keep on telling na may ganito akong cab amp, I have bought a new vintage amp but the clients they had hindi satisfied actually hindi lang sa hindi nasatisfied pangit inshort. My friend has a band named M _ _ _ _ _ L who recorded to a studio owned by someone na sinasabi ko na posero. okay nAMAN ang recording medyo napatagal kaya medyo malaki ang binayaran ng friend ko  okay lang sana kasi mukha naman magaling si prof. sound engr. because of his words na pambobola lang pala nagexpect ang friend ko na ok yung magiging tunog nung kanta dahil nga sa mga pinagmamayabang nyang gamit at after makuha yung final mix para gamitin sa isang indie film. nadismaya sila dahil eto ba yung binaran namin parang hindi minix parang pinakanta yung vocals sa loob ng banyo in short raw ang tunog hindi naman siya tunog na parang hindi marunong yung nagrecord but the mixing anlayo sa ieexpect mo sa mga gamit at mga sinasabi niya dito


Im not posting this para siraan ang isang tao dahil wala naman akong binaggit kung sino yun gusto ko lang malaman bakit may mga ganun kayabang magsalita dito and then yung mga nagwa nila  hindi katulad ng sinasabi nila and gusto ko lang maging advice din to sa mga gustong magrecording sa mga recording studio eh pumili kayo ng totoo hindi lang sa brand ng gamit kundi totoo din sa nagagawa nila sana hindi  kayo maging katulad ng friend ko sobrang regret ng kaibigan ko.  Choose wisely wag magpadala sa mga napaktitindi nilang term maaring alam nila ang ibig sabihin pero hindi nila maapply madali lang mlman yung mga terms nila andyan si google oh.

peace !!

Oh it's a band that sounds like Sardines and a struggling studio in Manila attacking another struggling studio in Pasig tama ba?  

 
If I am not wrong, the sardine-named band took 3 years to finish 3 songs.   I really hate blind items pero for the benefit of the people here, do you want to know who we're talking about here?  And bakit NAPATAGAL ang recording?  Mahirap talaga ang back-biting sa isang katrabaho kung puwede mo naman sabihin nang harapan kung may problema.  


Peace? (Kapal ng mukha gamitin ang salitang 'peace'). GET STRAIGHT TO THE POINT.  I take no BS when it comes to work.

riffoff sabihin mo na kung sino.  If you do not reply to this thread in 48 hours I will call you A COWARD.  

[skunkyfunk]

I wish to put up a popcorn stand now. Any takers?  I kind of miss being my old self. 

[skunkyfunk]

Hey I need to see round 1.  Lemme test the old skunky trolly powers...

[peeves24]

meron ka bang dalandan flavor mix para sa popcorn? i'll take 2



another must watch thread...

[KitC]

Oh well, the cat's out of the bag. Let the fur fly then.

I'll roll up my fave armchair and I'll take one bag of popcorn, please. Who's got the brewski?

[killjom]

@TS

Wala akong nakikitang dahilan para sabihan mo siyang poser.

[inigo]

@TS

Wala akong nakikitang dahilan para sabihan mo siyang poser.

+ 3.14159265...

[skunkyfunk]

They have vintage amps genuine mics original softwares nice soundproof But still the quality of their recording
is far from their gadgets name and price

You forgot to factor in the talent and work ethics of the artist.  Give 30 artists the same studio, not all of them would come up with stellar results.

Sorry if I will offend someone here I will not give up names but I cant stand their "pagpapanngap"

Define "PAGPAPANGGAP".

thats true naman kapag tinanong mo sila all about recording mixing techniques and processes they all have the answers

Better than NOT knowing the science and being a practitioner.

but applying them to their product nasaan??? nasaan na yung mga sinasabi nilang ganito ang gagawin para maging ganito output and then ganito para ganyan may mga pinopost pa silang graphs waves etc. etc. na ganito ang mga nangyayari sa frequency kapag e2 ang ginamit mo.
and they keep on telling na may ganito akong cab amp, I have bought a new vintage amp but the clients they had hindi satisfied actually hindi lang sa hindi nasatisfied pangit inshort.

Blue:

At anong tunog ang habol?  Kahit may sandamukal na vintage amp sa studio, kung hindi gusto o hindi kailangan sa recording, di naman dapat ipilit sa client yun.  Kung ang client naman ang pumili at hindi sila nasiyahan AFTER ng post-production, sino ang may sala?  Eh diba the client is always right?

Green:

That goes to show how VISUAL listening is destructive.  Kaibigan, waveforms are representations of a signal but  don't make the mistake of looking at waveforms to 'hear' things.  May mga foreign na 2-bus master na -9dBFS RMS na mas malakas pakinggan kaysa sa mga locally 'mastered' na 2-bus na -7.5dBFS RMS.  Ibig ko lang sabihin, hindi yung graph and numbers ang mahalaga, kundi yung naririnig mo.  

My friend has a band named M _ _ _ _ _ L who recorded to a studio owned by someone na sinasabi ko na posero. okay nAMAN ang recording medyo napatagal kaya medyo malaki ang binayaran ng friend ko  

I know the figures to this but to lay the record straight, that was a measly P2,500/song UNLIMITED na inabot ng 3 taon.  Malaki ha.

okay lang sana kasi mukha naman magaling si prof. sound engr. because of his words na pambobola lang pala nagexpect ang friend ko na ok yung magiging tunog nung kanta dahil nga sa mga pinagmamayabang nyang gamit at after makuha yung final mix para gamitin sa isang indie film. nadismaya sila dahil eto ba yung binaran namin parang hindi minix parang pinakanta yung vocals sa loob ng banyo in short raw ang tunog hindi naman siya tunog na parang hindi marunong yung nagrecord but the mixing anlayo sa ieexpect mo sa mga gamit at mga sinasabi niya dito

narinig ko rin yung mix.  Hindi ako nasiyahan pero ayaw ko galawin hangga't di sabihin sa akin na galawin.  Touch move principle.

Im not posting this para siraan ang isang tao dahil wala naman akong binaggit kung sino yun gusto ko lang malaman bakit may mga ganun kayabang magsalita dito and then yung mga nagwa nila  hindi katulad ng sinasabi nila and gusto ko lang maging advice din to sa mga gustong magrecording sa mga recording studio eh pumili kayo ng totoo hindi lang sa brand ng gamit kundi totoo din sa nagagawa nila sana hindi  kayo maging katulad ng friend ko sobrang regret ng kaibigan ko.  Choose wisely wag magpadala sa mga napaktitindi nilang term maaring alam nila ang ibig sabihin pero hindi nila maapply madali lang mlman yung mga terms nila andyan si google oh.

peace !!

 
So bakit with 4 posts ay pupunta ka rito at iiyak?   Ano ba ang napatunayan mo so far para pakinggan ka namin?  For all I care it is propaganda.  Everything you said here, should be dealt on a personal or client-provider level.  Posting things like this is a sign of vested interest.  At one point may isang studio dito na gumawa ng maraming spam posts dito para iadvertise ang studio nila.  Pinagtanggol ko pa kay Sir KitC yung posts ng studio kasi hanapbuhay lang naman ang ginagawa.  Tapos malaman mong iniignore lang yung moderator warnings siyempre bad shot kaagad.  

[skunkyfunk]

grrrrr  I am waiting for the first jab from riffoff.   

[jefisipbata]

grrrrr  I am waiting for the first jab from riffoff.   

unload the flurries skunkyfunk, go for the quickest KO. huwag mo na hintaying yung jab, kase mukhang di na lalabas si TS, nagbackfire yung ginawa eh.. (sorry i thought this is BP, with the popcorn and all)

[starfugger]

imo, one can say whatever he or she wants offline.  kung gusto mong manira ng kapwa enhinyero, do it in your own private space.  not in a public forum.  kasiraan sa hanap buhay yan.  riffoff, if you are an engineer, be considerate of other engineers. pare-pareho tayong natuto palang. ang totoo malayo pa ang kakayahan nating lahat compared sa kakayahan ng mga enhinyero sa labas ng bansa.  magtulungan nalang tayo. 

i respectfully request our admin to lock this thread.

[abusound]

@ riffoff - before posting what you have already posted, did you or your friend attempted in anyways to have this issue resolved with the engineer that you are referring to? Ang alam ko e walang hindi naaayos sa mahusay na talakayan at ma-bote-ng usapan.  

I second Hazel's request to lock this thread. Let's not add fuel to this fire.

Cheers!

[chuck sabbath]

i respectfully request our admin to lock this thread.

not before i get all IBTL up in this bich!!

seriously as much as i rag on s_ _ _ _y (does not rhyme with sardines) for his troll threads, this is bit of a low blow. not gonna generate any sympathy with that approach mr. threadstarter im jus sayin

[skunkyfunk]

not before i get all IBTL up in this bich!!

seriously as much as i rag on s_ _ _ _y (does not rhyme with sardines) for his troll threads, this is bit of a low blow. not gonna generate any sympathy with that approach mr. threadstarter im jus sayin

intelligent trolling > stupid trolling

A troll is a troll is a troll.

[skunkyfunk]

@ riffoff - before posting what you have already posted, did you or your friend attempted in anyways to have this issue resolved with the engineer that you are referring to? Ang alam ko e walang hindi naaayos sa mahusay na talakayan at ma-bote-ng usapan. 

I second Hazel's request to lock this post. Let's not add fuel to this fire.

Cheers!

if  he's talking about ME, I don't understand why they would not tell me.  Eh yung gitarista/bokalista nila humingi pa ng tulong para i-order ko siya ng Telecaster from West LA Music para makamura siya at isabay sa drumheads ko.  As in, wala silang sinabi sa akin at all.  Pinatugtog pa kami sa EP launch nila.  So... who's making the propaganda?

[skunkyfunk]

To the mods, can you give me a good workout before you lock the thread?  I wanna know who riffoff is, and what he has to say.  

Nakakainip mehng. 

[superwup]

Riffoff, is that Filipino style for rip off?

Lets check Google.............mmmmmmmmmmm...........

Ripoff Report: Drive Finanical riffoff harassing rude and thiefs ... - [ Isalin ang pahinang ito ]17 Aug 2009 ... Drive Finanical riffoff harassing rude and thiefs. takes money that don't belong to them

?

[skunkyfunk]

imo, one can say whatever he or she wants offline.  kung gusto mong manira ng kapwa enhinyero, do it in your own private space.  not in a public forum.  kasiraan sa hanap buhay yan.  riffoff, if you are an engineer, be considerate of other engineers. pare-pareho tayong natuto palang. ang totoo malayo pa ang kakayahan nating lahat compared sa kakayahan ng mga enhinyero sa labas ng bansa.  magtulungan nalang tayo. 

i respectfully request our admin to lock this thread.

I tend to believe he is a 'sound engineer'.  His post on the Studio Central sticky:

BTMT(beneath the mango tree) recording studio


visit www.btmt.multiply.com
 

It is propaganda.   Walang mangyayari sa bansa natin kung magsisiraan tayo.