hulika

Author Topic: Drum setup rant  (Read 2610 times)

Offline NATSBRATS

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Drum setup rant
« on: December 08, 2008, 03:31:38 PM »
I get pissed off when i see drumsets just being dumped on top ot the jeep, on the tricycle, etc. being moved or travelled to a gig. They don't care. They treat the instrument like it has no value at all. And most of all i get really really pissed off when someone sits on your own kit and that person says that he is a "drummer" but he doesnt know the value of the instrument and he bangs it like he didn't care at all. I think people must be educated about the value of the drumset. Value means about the specs and information inorder for them to appreciate the kit to make them realize it should be handled with tender loving care.  :x Any opinions about this my brothers and sisters in drumming?   

Offline Akira JUMBO

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Re: The DRUMS......mus be hanbled with TLC.
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 03:55:42 PM »
Usually people who do not own kits themselves do not realize how to handle kits with caution and care.

I share your sentiments.
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Offline niNgpo

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Re: The DRUMS......mus be hanbled with TLC.
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 08:18:01 PM »
sa school namin dati nunng ako yung percussion head, nagka-christmas party di ako nakasama. pagbalik ko nung pasukan pinatawag ko lahat eh kasi yung drumset sirang sira na ginamit sa christmas party. ang dahilan eh andun naman daw yung moderator. sabi ko eh ako ang head kapag nasita ang drums ako mananagot diyan... tsk2 :cry: pati moderator nasigawan ko tuloy.

Offline talaga?

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Re: The DRUMS......mus be hanbled with TLC.
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2008, 08:34:40 PM »
sa school naman namin ung drumset talagang kulang sa maintenance. ung cymbals di man lang malinisan. ung reso nung bass drum sa music room butas. amp.

Offline makinao

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Drum setup rant
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2009, 03:46:25 PM »
Pardon the indulgence, but I just have to get this off my chest.

Rant mode ON.

I just started voluntarily overhauling the beat up drum set in my church, and I'm in some sort of shock. I've played a lot of drum sets that aren't mine, and too many of them sound simply awful. The pastor in my church told me that some in the congregation had been complaining about the drums being too loud, and he thought of enclosing the drums in some kind of plexiglass cage. But the real problem to me is not that it is too loud, but that it sounds like crap because it hasn't been set up properly. A lot of this could be avoided if the drummer knew what he/she was doing.

The first thing I usually notice is the bad condition of the heads. Bald spots in coated heads are a simple indication of wear and tear, so this is to be expected specially in club drum sets. Stick marks and dirt are also a fact of life, and will happen even with the best maintained heads. But what bugs me is when the heads are so badly dented (even with 2-ply heads). In most cases, this is caused when the head is too loose. A few turns of the tension rods is usually all it takes to improve the situation, albeit slightly. So it irritates me when I see a drummer come to a gig without a drum key, then proceed to bludgeon a loose drum head to death, thinking that this will make him/her look "cool". I have walked out of gigs when I see this happening because it only makes the drummer sound bad.

Another problem is the overabundance of muffling. I've seen snares and toms with all kinds of tape, napkins (table and otherwise), and other objects stuck to them, and have had a hell of a time getting adhesive off my drum sticks. My guess is that in the quest for a "deep" sound and minimal ringing, many drummers tune the drums too low, and/or add too much muffling. What these people don't realize is that by taking out all the overtones, all that is left is a dead sounding drum with no character or dynamics.

I can understand if a song calls for a specific sound which can only be achieved with some modifications. Ringo Starr, for example, routinely used towels on his drums to get a short dry sound on many latter Beatles songs. But I don't remember him putting junk on his drums. In the 80's, Steve Gadd became famous for a dry sound, but he got this by using a Yamaha Recording Custom set, very heavy Evans oil-filled hydraulic heads, and very delicate playing technique. But even Stewart Copeland, who used electrical tape to spell out [strawberry] you" on his rack toms, used moderately high tuning, which resulted in a very rich, roaring drum sound filled with overtones. I don't have a problem with judicious and contextual muffling. But there is a limit. And when it kills the sound of a drum, it makes me want to throw up.

The same is true with cymbals. I didn't chose mine based on the brand reputation, or whatever was written on it. I chose them due to the unique complexity of the timbres. I once tried adding tape to my ride and crash-ride to limit the trashiness . But I took it off immediately because I realized the original overtone structure was what made them unique, the reason I selected them in the first place. Thankfully, all that remains of that moment of stupidity are some adhesive marks. I swore never to do it again, and instead committed to bask in the vibrance of their sound.

Some drummers say they are after something they heard from a recording. But the truth is that  most recordings use a rich combination of close-miking, equalization, and signal processing to achieve that sound. But while there is some relationship between the natural drum sound (from the drummers perspective) and its recording, the two are vastly different. The same is true in a club. What the audience hears is very different from what the drummer hears. It is possible to tune a drum set that will sound good to both the drummer and the audience.

I like a drum set that is responsive. With my present setup, I can just tap it and it will whisper. Hit it moderately and it will "sing". Hit it hard and it will "roar". Hit it very hard and it will "scream". This kind of dynamic range is impossible with floppy heads and insane damping. It comes with good tuning, and an understanding of the natural tonal characteristics of each drum/head combination. I've used many types of setups in my lifetime, some I have come to regret. But I've never broken a head or a stick due to ignorance of the physics of sound and/or materials.

With all the information and discourse available on the internet nowadays, I would have thought drummers would be more informed as to how to set up their drums. But some people prefer to stay blissfully ignorant, then have the stupidity to wonder why a drum set sounds like crap. Music is sound. You can be great technically, but if you can't get your instrument to make even a subjectively decent sound, you'll have all sorts of problems getting people to listen to, or play with you. You not only rob the instrument of sounding even nominally good, but run the risk of destroying it for good.

Rant mode OFF.


Offline CDodrummer

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2009, 07:20:45 PM »
yeah totally dude
Duct tape has a light and darker side. Like the Force, it holds the world together

Offline road dogg

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2009, 02:44:02 AM »
written like a true musician...
BLACK END rulz!

Offline tranquildomain

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2009, 10:07:06 AM »
But some people prefer to stay blissfully ignorant, then have the stupidity to wonder why a drum set sounds like crap. Music is sound. You can be great technically, but if you can't get your instrument to make even a subjectively decent sound, you'll have all sorts of problems getting people to listen to, or play with you. You not only rob the instrument of sounding even nominally good, but run the risk of destroying it for good.

Amen to this! Most people don't even know the voice of their kits :-|
UNAS.. the slayer of the Gods..
"Once you begin to see drums as music, you've become a drummer." - George Kollias

Offline road dogg

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2009, 09:38:21 PM »
pero you know what, i too have to admit that i did all those dumb ass things all arund my kit back in th day. like spray painting the heads haha...pero it just struck me in the later part of my drumming life that you have to let the drum sing pala. i mean i have learned to love the natural drum and drumhead sound wide open and learned to play it in a different way musically.

BLACK END rulz!

Offline kimpoy19

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2009, 11:05:55 PM »
tama,
may iba naman na kahit gaano kaganda yung kit niya, sobrang lakas lang talaga pumalo, pero in your point, tama lang yung pala mo, but the problem is your kit? pareho tayo.
drumming is my greatest way to praise the Lord!

Offline Gep

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 09:50:10 AM »
So it irritates me when I see a drummer come to a gig without a drum key, then proceed to bludgeon a loose drum head to death, thinking that this will make him/her look "cool".

I for one am guilty of not always tuning the drums in a bar. The reason is that I deem the tuning of the drums in the bars that I play are already ok. There are some exceptional cases where I just can't stand the tuning of the drums (like what happened once in Route 196 and Club Dredd) that I start tweaking them with my key.

I don't bludgeon the aforementioned head "to death". I try playing on the drum and not through it, that's why the tom and snare heights and angles really matter to me.

Another problem is the overabundance of muffling. I've seen snares and toms with all kinds of tape, napkins (table and otherwise), and other objects stuck to them, and have had a hell of a time getting adhesive off my drum sticks.

It's funny when drummers overmuffle their drums, when the excess ringing sound won't reach the audiences' ears anyway (unless it's mic'd).

But even Stewart Copeland, who used electrical tape to spell out [strawberry] you" on his rack toms, used moderately high tuning, which resulted in a very rich, roaring drum sound filled with overtones.

Stewart Copeland reduces the ringing of his toms by tuning them so tightly that the skins almost start to peel off the hoops. He muffles his snare drum by taping a folded good-sized towel on the side of the shell.

The same is true with cymbals. I didn't chose mine based on the brand reputation, or whatever was written on it. I chose them due to the unique complexity of the timbres. I once tried adding tape to my ride and crash-ride to limit the trashiness.

Unfortunately, we beggars can't be choosers. We don't have enough cymbals to collect and select. As a consolation, at least we have unique cymbal sounds.

Some drummers say they are after something they heard from a recording. But the truth is that  most recordings use a rich combination of close-miking, equalization, and signal processing to achieve that sound. But while there is some relationship between the natural drum sound (from the drummers perspective) and its recording, the two are vastly different.

I find it funny though that the drum sounds from local records sound alike, because they use the same drumkits from the same studios.

I like a drum set that is responsive. With my present setup, I can just tap it and it will whisper. Hit it moderately and it will "sing". Hit it hard and it will "roar". Hit it very hard and it will "scream".

I want your drumkit!  :-D
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 09:58:13 AM by Gep »

Offline sandythedrummer

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2009, 03:58:10 PM »
The pastor in my church told me that some in the congregation had been complaining about the drums being too loud, and he thought of enclosing the drums in some kind of plexiglass cage. But the real problem to me is not that it is too loud, but that it sounds like crap because it hasn't been set up properly. A lot of this could be avoided if the drummer knew what he/she was doing.


I guess you should listen and deal with it.

At first I'm pissed off every time someone in the band is signaling me to tone down coz i played loud. The church's acoustics is "ANTI DRUMS". If you get what i mean.

Not until i played session with a known artist last year. The manager is always bugging me to tone down each song. She even calls me before a show asking what Snare I'll be bringing and cymbal sizes.She's one heck of a meticulous Manager  :-D.

Little did i know that all the while, I'm starting to sound more relaxed and more Dynamic. I noticed that some of my fellow musicians has the same comments about my Playing.

Minsan kung titingnan naten yung action which is People telling you that you play loud eh nakakaines. Pero if you'll see it in a much wider perspective eh andun pala sila para to push you be a better musician. It's a matter of how you deal things. Are you an egg which hardens when heat is applied or a brewed coffee that emanates it's aroma in hot water when boiled.

But bro this thread make sense :-D
Peace and love
"I BELIEVE IN CHRIST LIKE I BELIEVE IN THE SUN. NOT BECAUSE I CAN SEE IT, BUT BY IT, I CAN SEE EVERYONE ELSE....."

Offline jefisipbata

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2009, 04:26:32 PM »
@ makinao

sadly this is the state of most drums in churches i've seen nowadays. madaming factors like paiba-iba ng drummer which usually results in lack of ownership over the maintenance of drums or a succession of drummers tweaking the set to their own liking. minsan naman yung drummer eh confined lang sa church, shielded by his pastor parents from the outside world (parang ako yata ito dati) na wala syang reference or comparison what a good drum sound is. another factor is the church's budget. with so many expenses in the churches minsan wala nang natitira para sa maintenance ng mga instruments (played in one church before na ako bumibili ng sticks ko pati drumheads, sakit sa bulsa pero worth it naman). so un, madami talaga factors, siguro yan yung reason kung bakit andyan ka. :-D

Offline sandythedrummer

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2009, 04:28:25 PM »
I read my post. Sounds like I'm too preachy... :-D

 I'm not always like that bro!! hehehe.. Feeling ko nga OT reply ko.
 :wink:
"I BELIEVE IN CHRIST LIKE I BELIEVE IN THE SUN. NOT BECAUSE I CAN SEE IT, BUT BY IT, I CAN SEE EVERYONE ELSE....."

Offline makinao

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2009, 01:38:23 PM »
Thanks for all the compassionate replies.

I'm just about done with the repair work on the Church kit. I didn't do anything cosmetic. I got all new Coated Ambassadors for my personal set, so I donated all my old but still very usable Pinstripes for the toms batters, a very dirty but practically unused Evans ST for the snare, and Ludwig Rockers for the kick (both batter and reso). I took out the kick pillow and changed it to a cloth strip. I bought a couple of new Lazer tom mounts, a new kick beater, put in new cymbal felts and sleeves, and donated my old hihat stand (when I realized it would cost a lot to re-thread the old one). The kick spurs are still a problem, and I don't have the budget for it right now. I'm also looking for new lockpins for the stand joints. Its not perfect, but it sounds light years better than before.

Just so my efforts don't go to waste, I volunteered to hold a basic drum setup workshop this summer for the Church drummers, and anyone else in the congregation who might be interested. I plan to take the kit apart the night before, and spend the whole morning having them put it back together. Then I can go into tuning, and some controlled playing techniques in the afternoon. Anyone who joins will have to bring a drum key, philips screwdriver, 7a drumsticks, and a small notepad and pen. This is to teach them the parts of a drum and the kit, how to maintain it, and how to play it with this new setup. The pastor is very excited about it, and we're fixing the schedule already. If I have the energy, I might even bring my own kit so I can play along. I'll let you guys know what happens after.

I don't play in the services, and I want to leave further maintenance to the Church and the active drummers. But I hope my efforts will help both the drummers and the congregation gain a better understanding of, and appreciation for the sound of these biblical instruments.

Offline IncX

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2009, 01:09:23 PM »

i wish there was someone who could do what you are doing here in davao city.

i dont know crap about tuning my drum kit, although i dont think it sounds terrible compared to most church kits, hehe

Offline mampupunit

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Re: Drum setup rant
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2009, 09:41:02 PM »
sa palagay ko... yung mga naunang gumamit na drummer ay kumbaga... natakot na baka ayaw ipakalkal ng mga nagbabantay yung tambol. maaari ding wala lang talaga silang pakialam. minsan kase ayaw talaga ng simbahan/normal na tao ang maingay na instrumento. kaya kumbaga, d na nila pinakikialaman kung panget o maganda yung tunog. minsan kahit itono mo at patunugin mo ng tama, sa kanila, eh ano? maingay pa rin eh.

minsan ganun lang.
pumikit ka na lang nang hindi mo maramdaman...