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Author Topic: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?  (Read 9830 times)

Offline rimshot601

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Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« on: September 12, 2008, 05:22:06 PM »
Ito ba ang dahilan kung bakit tayong mga Pilipino ay madalas sumunod sa trend ng western music? nakakatuwa bang pakinggan na sabihin ng mga dayuhan na magaling ang mga pinoy sa pang gagaya?  :?
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Offline obelix

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2008, 05:24:11 PM »
can you elaborate?

Offline rimshot601

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2008, 06:16:43 PM »
can you elaborate?

Sorry, I can no longer elaborate. The questions stand as they are.
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Offline obelix

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2008, 06:33:05 PM »
then the answer is YES

Offline BassCog

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2008, 08:39:50 PM »
it's the same with all artists even in rock and roll, then - kasi hindi defined ang term ng "panggagaya".

led zep? heavy blues and classical. nag-rip pa nga sila sa mga ibang tao ng riffs, kung tutuusin. even whole songs.

Hendrix? original lang yung tunog at yung passion, otherwise, blues-rock rin siya.

so if the question stands as it is...hindi lang pinoy ang nanggagaya, lahat na rin across history. dinadagdagan lang ng kaunting pagbabago at every step.






Offline lateralis

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2008, 03:05:11 AM »
it's the same with all artists even in rock and roll, then - kasi hindi defined ang term ng "panggagaya".

led zep? heavy blues and classical. nag-rip pa nga sila sa mga ibang tao ng riffs, kung tutuusin. even whole songs.

Hendrix? original lang yung tunog at yung passion, otherwise, blues-rock rin siya.

so if the question stands as it is...hindi lang pinoy ang nanggagaya, lahat na rin across history. dinadagdagan lang ng kaunting pagbabago at every step.







I second this.

Offline boltes_payb

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2008, 03:29:27 AM »
yes....................kung pag aaralan..kung gaya gaya ka lng..no....

gulo b ? haha..
yan na nga ba ang sinasabi ko e...

Offline matanglawin

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2008, 12:54:50 PM »
To a certain extent, yes.  You still need TALENT in order to imitate someone.  People do begin by imitating someone else, and eventually develop his "own style" in the process.

I may sound like the Sphinx in "Mystery Men," some people will scream that art is in the originality, when actually, originality is in the art...
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Offline matanglawin

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 01:06:37 PM »
To a certain extent, yes.  You still need TALENT in order to imitate someone.  People do begin by imitating someone else, and eventually develop his "own style" in the process.

I may sound like the Sphinx in "Mystery Men," some people will scream that art is in the originality, when actually, originality is in the art...
X2M Coffee Moment: Did want You

New Manila Sound

Offline moogerfooger

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2008, 03:27:34 PM »
cguro..:)

pero ito,,reality check...

ilang dekada at palit-gobyerno na din ang bansa natin pero nakakasurvive pa rin kahit may konting  panggagaya.

pananamit, kulay ng buhok, at kung anu ano pa. :-D

tayo nga lang ang proud ..na may ilang klaseng dialekto at wika rito. :-D kahit hindi na magkaintindihan. :-D

siguro naging medium na rin ito ng pagpapahayag at lumaon ay naging isang anyong sining na rin sa ilan nating kababayans :-D

« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 03:34:48 PM by moogerfooger »
"The spaces between your fingers were created so that another's could fill them in."

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Offline qroon

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2008, 03:42:20 PM »
Mga tanong para sa nag-umpisa ng paksang ito. :)

Sino namang lokal na alagad ng sining ang lantay na Pilipino ang musika? Ano ang pamantayan upang masabing hindi nanggaya? Ang huling tanong; Ano ang sukatan mo upang masabing Musikang Pilipino?


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Offline moogerfooger

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2008, 03:55:21 PM »
Mga tanong para sa nag-umpisa ng paksang ito. :)

Sino namang lokal na alagad ng sining ang lantay na Pilipino ang musika? Ano ang pamantayan upang masabing hindi nanggaya? Ang huling tanong; Ano ang sukatan mo upang masabing Musikang Pilipino?

wala ako makitang konkretong batayan o pamantayan para masabi ko na ang tunog ay kailanman hindi nabahiran ng kanluraning impluwensya.

marahil ang ilang kasagutan rito ay kelangan pa nating ikumpirma mula sa kaibuturan ng pinagmulan ng lahing pilipino.

sabi nga ng YANO,, "sumpa ng kasaysayan" :-)
"The spaces between your fingers were created so that another's could fill them in."

"NEVER FROWN BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW WHO MIGHT BE FALLING IN LOVE WITH YOUR SMILE"

Offline electronictokwa

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2008, 04:57:39 AM »
Improvisation nalang, kasi mahirap talaga ma define ang tunog ng Pinoy eh.

Offline rimshot601

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2008, 02:14:13 PM »
Mga tanong para sa nag-umpisa ng paksang ito. :)

Sino namang lokal na alagad ng sining ang lantay na Pilipino ang musika? Ano ang pamantayan upang masabing hindi nanggaya? Ang huling tanong; Ano ang sukatan mo upang masabing Musikang Pilipino?

Kung sa radyo ka makikinig, hindi mo matatagpuan ang sagot. Ang musikang Pilipino ay madidinig mo mula sa mga bundok ng mga katutubo. Ilan sa mga modernong alagad ng sining na tumutugtog ng ganitong tema ay ang Pinikpikan, Joey Ayala, at iba pa.
There's humor in irony...
~Rrrakkenrohohoholl!!!

Offline BassCog

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2008, 02:52:08 PM »
Kung sa radyo ka makikinig, hindi mo matatagpuan ang sagot. Ang musikang Pilipino ay madidinig mo mula sa mga bundok ng mga katutubo. Ilan sa mga modernong alagad ng sining na tumutugtog ng ganitong tema ay ang Pinikpikan, Joey Ayala, at iba pa.

I disagree that you have to sound ethnic. If that's the case, then American music should be from the American Indians. Rock and roll, with its origins, should not even be considered American, but African.

And Pinikpikan and Joey Ayala should be considered as derived from India.

It will always come down to who is the sun source - and if that's the case, then everything is probably from India and Africa.

Even what's considered to be American music (pop, standards, etc) are just brought over from England.

Rock music in itself is original not because of what it is, but of what it fused together, and what it keeps on adding to itself.

That's why I think that this whole thing about Filipinos lacking originality is bunk. Our music is a product of our history, and what makes it unique is how we use it, how we play, and the simple fact that we are Filipinos.

Offline lennon_reincarnate

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2008, 03:24:49 PM »
I disagree that you have to sound ethnic. If that's the case, then American music should be from the American Indians. Rock and roll, with its origins, should not even be considered American, but African.

And Pinikpikan and Joey Ayala should be considered as derived from India.

It will always come down to who is the sun source - and if that's the case, then everything is probably from India and Africa.

Even what's considered to be American music (pop, standards, etc) are just brought over from England.

Rock music in itself is original not because of what it is, but of what it fused together, and what it keeps on adding to itself.

That's why I think that this whole thing about Filipinos lacking originality is bunk. Our music is a product of our history, and what makes it unique is how we use it, how we play, and the simple fact that we are Filipinos.




VERY WELL SAID BASS COG. :-D
yung combination ng lahat lahat na influences natin ang nagbibigay originality and uniqueness sa pinoy.kaya sya tunog pinoy kasi pinoy nagsulat at gumawa.
with all the humor and sentimentality and all the history running through our veins.

sensya, inuulit ko lang naman.perfect na yung sinabi ni Basscog. :mrgreen:

Offline rimshot601

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2008, 05:00:29 PM »
Our music is a product of our history, and what makes it unique is how we use it, how we play, and the simple fact that we are Filipinos.

Ang tanong, eh naging "unique" nga ba??
There's humor in irony...
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Offline BassCog

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2008, 09:30:40 PM »
Ang tanong, eh naging "unique" nga ba??

to my ears - yes. because it carries our sensibilities, and at times our language, sometimes even "native ethnic" instruments. your mileage may vary.

the unique card is subjective. rock and roll? listen to the blues - rock and roll started as blues electrified and given a more danceable beat. heck, black people then firmly thought that it was stolen by whites, probably why little richard says that he's the true king of rock and roll, not elvis.

and so on...little changes here and there (not even necessarily unique)....and after a while, you have "American Junk", which to me is very much more a true expression of the history of OPM than many of the "world music" sounds here in the Philippines - because, you know, you can hear that all across the Asean, too. it's not "unique" either.

My point is...what do you mean by unique? something mind bogglingly different? you'd need whole generations, probably centuries from the sun source to get that. as it is, Filipino music is music made by Filipinos. anything else is subject to interpretation.

I would rather keep on supporting all of OPM and encourage them to experiment to really come out with something. putting people down because they are imitators is just plain wasting time. kung ganun yun, eh di i-put down mo si Elvis for imitating Dean Martin, si John Lennon and Paul McCartney for imitating Elvis and all the other first-gen pioneers, and the Eraserheads for liking the Beatles.

Or maybe you should put them down, para mas lumakas loob nila to prove you wrong.

But for me, I enjoy going to a gig here in Manila, listening to some band cover a song from some band in America...and am pleasantly surprised that later, I'll hear them come out with a song that's all their own, and a sound to go with it. Or maybe, I'll hear some young kids come out with something that's everything they've heard, and now they're doing it their way. Either which way, it's fun. It's Pinoy, and I don't worry so much about all this colonialism, kasi yung kumakanta sa harapan ko, pinoy.

and if I'm really lucky, I'll hear someone like Joey Ayala, whose lyrics, at times, transcends all this Filipino nitpicking, and simply talks about being human. And that's not original - that's universal. And it was while listening to him that I realized that what makes Filipino music, American Music and British Music is simply the adjective that speaks about their location. But in the end, real music doesn't care, as long as you enjoy it.

Offline jhuvee_09bless

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #18 on: September 20, 2008, 12:30:02 AM »
I disagree that you have to sound ethnic. If that's the case, then American music should be from the American Indians. Rock and roll, with its origins, should not even be considered American, but African.

And Pinikpikan and Joey Ayala should be considered as derived from India.

It will always come down to who is the sun source - and if that's the case, then everything is probably from India and Africa.

Even what's considered to be American music (pop, standards, etc) are just brought over from England.

Rock music in itself is original not because of what it is, but of what it fused together, and what it keeps on adding to itself.

That's why I think that this whole thing about Filipinos lacking originality is bunk. Our music is a product of our history, and what makes it unique is how we use it, how we play, and the simple fact that we are Filipinos.
i agree
« Last Edit: September 20, 2008, 12:31:12 AM by jhuvee_09bless »

Offline qroon

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2008, 01:59:07 AM »
Kung sa radyo ka makikinig, hindi mo matatagpuan ang sagot. Ang musikang Pilipino ay madidinig mo mula sa mga bundok ng mga katutubo. Ilan sa mga modernong alagad ng sining na tumutugtog ng ganitong tema ay ang Pinikpikan, Joey Ayala, at iba pa.

Kailangan ba nating isukdol ang pamantayan sa pinanggalingan ng musika? Kung magkagayon, ay walang masasabing lantay na musikang Pilipino. Dahil wala tayong masasabing tunay na katutubo sa Pilipinas (gagamitin ko ang pasukdol mong batayan). Kung saan man nakasalalay ang paniniwala mo ukol sa pinagmulan ng tao sa Pilipinas [1], ay wala tayong masasabing katutubo.

Sa mga nabanggit mong alagad ng sining, nakatitiyak ka ba na lantay ang kanilang musika? Nakatitiyak ka bang hindi sila gumagamit ng elementong musikal na nagmula sa ibang bansa? Nakatitiyak ka ba na lahat ng kanilang instrumento at iskalang ginagamit ay walang bahid ng impluwensya na galing sa ibang bansa?

Naalala ko bigla ang Patatag, magaganda ang kanilang awitin, tumatalakay sa pamumuhay ng mga magsasaka sa kanayunan at mga manggagawa sa bayan. Puilitikal ang mga paksa. Gumagamit ng 'katutubong' instrumento. Marahil ay sasabihin mo agad na; "Ayan ang tunay na musikang Pilipino!"

Ngunit mapagtatanto mo na isinalin pala nila mula sa sa banyagang awitin ang ilan nilang inawit. Ngayon, kung gagamitin natin ang pamantayan mo, hindi na rin natin maaring tawaging lantay na musikang Pilipino ang musika ng Patatag!

Kung ano man ang kalagayan ng Musikang Pilipino ay bunga o nabuo ito sa paglipas ng panahon. Paano naging naiiba ang musikang Pilipino? Dahil ito ay ginawa ng isang Pilipino. :) Kung ano mang panlasa mo sa musika ay ibang paksa na.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Philippines#Early_history


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Offline rimshot601

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2008, 07:12:36 PM »
Tama, nasa tenga ko ang panlasa ko sa musika at ibang paksa nga yun.

Kung ano man ang creative at original para sa akin ay iba sa'yo; kung ano ang gaya-gaya para sakin ay marahil iba para sa iyo. Pero ang pinakamahalaga ay marunong kang manuri kung ano sa opinyon mo ang makabuluhan at hindi, at naipapahayag mo ito.
Hindi na mahalaga kung iisa tayo ng opinyon o hindi, ang mahalaga ay nagkaroon tayo ng palitan ng kuro kuro. May natututunan din naman ako sa inyo, at sana ay may natutunan din ang ibang mambabasa kahit hindi nagbibigay ng opinyon dito.
Maraming salamat sa inyong lahat na lumahok sa usaping ito.  :-)

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There's humor in irony...
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Offline nightvisiongoggles

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2008, 02:43:49 AM »
Ang Sining ay ang pinakamataas na anyo ng panggagaya.
Ang tunay na Sining ay ang paggaya sa nakakubling Katotohanan, at ito ang nagmumulat sa atin sa Katotohanan.


Kung pagbabasehan mo ang sinabi ko sa itaas, ang paggaya ay Sining, at ang Sining ay paggaya. Ang mananayaw ay ginagaya ang banayad na alon, ang mangaawit ay ginagaya ang huni ng ibon, at ang pintor ay ginagaya ang liwanag ng araw.

Ang OPM ngayon ay salamin ng kung ano ang Pilipino ngayon.

Offline bhenard

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #22 on: September 26, 2008, 03:54:29 AM »
answered already!!!

considered "SINING" ang panggagaya
Roland,...Korg,...or Yamaha?
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Offline jhuvee_09bless

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2008, 02:22:59 PM »
answered already!!!

considered "SINING" ang panggagaya
i agree

Offline thr3ten

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Re: Ang Panggagaya Ba ay Isang Sining?
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2008, 07:22:37 AM »
Ang Sining ay ang pinakamataas na anyo ng panggagaya.
Ang tunay na Sining ay ang paggaya sa nakakubling Katotohanan, at ito ang nagmumulat sa atin sa Katotohanan.


Kung pagbabasehan mo ang sinabi ko sa itaas, ang paggaya ay Sining, at ang Sining ay paggaya. Ang mananayaw ay ginagaya ang banayad na alon, ang mangaawit ay ginagaya ang huni ng ibon, at ang pintor ay ginagaya ang liwanag ng araw.

Ang OPM ngayon ay salamin ng kung ano ang Pilipino ngayon.


I read through the posts this one made good sense.   :-)  not bad at all!
Pulling Teeth!